"What is Tremfusion" --- Our philosophy

[Lava Croft]

And how is Tremfusion going to help this? Clans: Zubs, NT, AA, OPP, SW, W. Which of these are promoting Tremfusion? As a long-time player in the clan politics game, I don't believe that clan activity is going to be solved by Tremfusion.

And which of these are euro or of another continent ? Hu.

I'm part of the kiwi clan, and we support TremFusion (We test the new versions, look if there are some bugs, etc). And some others french clans too (Welcomed, or perharps wwF* ?).

Why do clans need to be on another continent?

There have been no posts about Kiwi here since July. Welcomed has not been mentioned since 2007, and I cannot find any posts here about wwF*. "Some french clans", if they have different forums, are part of that community, not this one.

I don't see any of those clan tags in people's sigs often enough for me to recognize them.

Are any of these clans' activity going to rely on tremfusion?

You suck.

I am done.

For a clan to exist, it must spend it's time spamming the Clan Section of these forums?

The fact that you, as an American, never come across these European clans means they do not exist?

If the French, or who the fuck else for that matter, uses a different forum that this one for their communication, does that mean they are not part of this community, the Tremulous community?

Who the fuck are you to make such statements, newcomer?

[David]

This is just the US Tremulous Forums, there is tremulous.fr as far as I know. Perhaps it has a larger impact over there?

No, this is the official forums, it covers the whole world.  All others are fan sites.

But they have a written license to modify the code and turn it into another product from the copyright holder. It's in the file 'GPL' right at the top of the source tree. If 'tremulous' is a trademark or registered name you might be able to claim that 'tremfusion' is too similar to 'tremulous', but then they'd just rename their project to 'con-fusion' and carry on.

The code is GPL, the assets aren't.  Could also deny them access to the master.  Lots and lots and lots that could be done to screw with them.

of course, they will not visit your ping division so often, since they prefer playing without unlagged.

Will people stop with the all Europeans hate unlagged bullshit?  I'm European, I like unlagged.  I can play better and fairer on US servers than ones down the road.  99% of tremulous players don't even know what unlagged is or where the servers they play on are, so the big sweeping generalisations just make you look stupid.
What you mean to say is the majority of European server operators prefer lagged.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

well yes, i should've said "they prefer playing without lags".

[gimhael]

The code is GPL, the assets aren't.  Could also deny them access to the master.  Lots and lots and lots that could be done to screw with them.

Right, the media are not GPL, they are CC 2.5 licensed, but that still allows tremfusion to take the stuff and adapt it as they want, provided that they attribute the original author(s).
You can also lock them out of the master, that would be a very effective way to stop tremfusion from splitting the community: split it yourself first.

[David]

Splitting it first would be a great defence, they won't get users without servers, and they won't get server without users.
Thus the argument that they are only maintaining compatibility until they get said critical mass to be able to run there own stuff without it dying.

And can a mod remove all the shit about forum software?  Its not on-topic for this thread, or this forum.  I somehow doubt the TF people need any help in deciding such things.

[gimhael]

Well, they'll have some servers. I'd bet that Azrael07 will migrate at least his own servers once a stable tremfusion server is available. And then they'd only have to set up their own master server (wait, didn't they do this already ?) and invest an hour to make their client ping two masters and the tremfusion users will have access to all servers while the svn/MG user will only see the original tremulous servers.

I know which client I'd use in that situation.

[Lava Croft]

Splitting it first would be a great defence, they won't get users without servers, and they won't get server without users.

Thank for you letting us peek inside your way of thinking, a way which obviously does not have Tremulous and it's community set as a high priority.

[KamikOzzy]

And how is Tremfusion going to help this? Clans: Zubs, NT, AA, OPP, SW, W. Which of these are promoting Tremfusion? As a long-time player in the clan politics game, I don't believe that clan activity is going to be solved by Tremfusion.

And which of these are euro or of another continent ? Hu.

I'm part of the kiwi clan, and we support TremFusion (We test the new versions, look if there are some bugs, etc). And some others french clans too (Welcomed, or perharps wwF* ?).

Why do clans need to be on another continent?

There have been no posts about Kiwi here since July. Welcomed has not been mentioned since 2007, and I cannot find any posts here about wwF*. "Some french clans", if they have different forums, are part of that community, not this one.

I don't see any of those clan tags in people's sigs often enough for me to recognize them.

Are any of these clans' activity going to rely on tremfusion?

You suck.

I am done.

For a clan to exist, it must spend it's time spamming the Clan Section of these forums?

The fact that you, as an American, never come across these European clans means they do not exist?

If the French, or who the fuck else for that matter, uses a different forum that this one for their communication, does that mean they are not part of this community, the Tremulous community?

Who the fuck are you to make such statements, newcomer?

Newcomer am I? I have been registered here nearly twice as long as the person who I replied to.

For a clan to exist they must post here? My no, but if there's a dedicated place to post their clan's happenings, and they choose not to use it, it seems to me they don't want to be included in the community. And if they are located only in places other than this forum, then they are not included in the target audience of his post, so I am right to omit them from my posts when I try to represent the clan community he has mentioned.

Yes it does mean they are not part of this community.

Who the fuck am I? Well I am one with as much qualification as any to make an opinion about the clan scene. There isn't a North American clan active that would not appreciate my company, and I have led the AoD clan for a long time, which frequently appeared in the opinion topic about the top 5 clans. I have been in NT, Zubs, and AA. I am now tagged together with ex-members of the OPP clan, meren and amine. I have close friends in all major clans in North America. J-cool, founder of AA, and Dracone, founder of NT, both keep in contact with me. Those heavily involved in SW also close friends of mine. I know their opinions involving tremulous mods. Even leaders of European clans and Australian clans have been friends of mine in the past, and we have discussed many issues ranging from unlagged to tremx.

Who are you to even imply that I might not know what I'm talking about? I haven't seen your name come up in a positive tone ever in-game. I don't see clans desperately imploring Lava Croft to side with them. I think in reality, it is you who is the nobody in the clan scene, and I am fully qualified to make the statements I did.

[David]

Splitting it first would be a great defence, they won't get users without servers, and they won't get server without users.

Thank for you letting us peek inside your way of thinking, a way which obviously does not have Tremulous and it's community set as a high priority.

I never suggested to do it, I was merely pointing out that it is not an inherently bad option as some suggest.  Lesser of two evils etc etc.
If TF turns out to be evil, then losing a small amount of the community to get rid of them may be worth it.  You wouldn't refuse to remove a cancerous tumour just because some good cells are going to be cut out too.
(Note for the retards who can't read, I'm not saying TF is a cancer, I'm not saying its bad.  The If implies the whole situation is hypothetical.)

[Azrael07]

Who the fuck am I? Well I am one with as much qualification as any to make an opinion about the clan scene. There isn't a North American clan active that would not appreciate my company, and I have led the AoD clan for a long time, which frequently appeared in the opinion topic about the top 5 clans. I have been in NT, Zubs, and AA. I am now tagged together with ex-members of the OPP clan, meren and amine. I have close friends in all major clans in North America. J-cool, founder of AA, and Dracone, founder of NT, both keep in contact with me. Those heavily involved in SW also close friends of mine. I know their opinions involving tremulous mods. Even leaders of European clans and Australian clans have been friends of mine in the past, and we have discussed many issues ranging from unlagged to tremx.

Who are you to even imply that I might not know what I'm talking about? I haven't seen your name come up in a positive tone ever in-game. I don't see clans desperately imploring Lava Croft to side with them. I think in reality, it is you who is the nobody in the clan scene, and I am fully qualified to make the statements I did.

You're famous ? I don't know you... I'm famous too, do you know me ?

That's what everyone said : you're maybe very famous in US, but unknown in europe.
Spain, italian, french community (and probably other I don't know) have their own forums with their own activity. Most part of their users don't know you, and know what it's happend on this board only as rumors. Spain + italian + french forum community forums = 110 000 messages. This forum = 130 000 messages. And I count only 4 forums. There is many other servers and clans forums with their own community.

Yes, sure, tremulous.net/forum is the only one tremulous community :p
All unknown people here are noobs. Clans without signature here simply don't exist.

[KamikOzzy]

I don't give a fuck about other language boards. If you were posting there, my reputation there would be a factor, but you're not. You're posting here.

Edit: You're also saying things that I didn't. I never said I was famous, I said I was heavily involved with the "clan scene." When did I call anyone a noob? Now. You're a noob. I never said Tremulous.net is the only community, but it is the one you're posting on, therefore being the community relevant to this discussion.

And I don't find myself unknown when I leave my country's borders.

You want to talk famous... Yahoo is famous, Lakitu7 is famous, BloodyDemon(yes) is famous. Their name is known regardless of where you play. You sir, are not famous.

[LolWut?]

You're famous ? I don't know you... I'm famous too, do you know me ?

Uh... Ozzy is a well known player.. at least from what I know.. Iam an x-player of trem called Capt.Jordan I was not very famous.. but I used to play a lot.. I started trem about 2 years ago or 3.. and I have seen him around a lot. He was the leader of AOD.. one of the best clans ever, I remember people used to beg to get in. He is an extremely talented player as well and very experienced in trem.. : ) So.. I would like to point at that when quoting that statement you fail.. because I am a witness of his fame at least in the U.S .

[gimhael]

Splitting it first would be a great defence, they won't get users without servers, and they won't get server without users.

From some of the posts in this thread I get the impression that you don't even have to change the master server to split the 'community'.

[Asvarox]

Yahoo is famous

Haha indeed he is famous... From killwhoring, tking when someone is not following (sometimes very stupid)orders and talking shit about his "mindless team".
Exactly same is Kattana, but Yahoo doesnt have binded "Unlagged bullshit ffs abusers". +1 for him!
Actually half of Zubs are just bitching killwhores. You know why they don't play @ Dretch*Storm?
Because

they failed as they were stricken down to the ground

PS. If You think someone without "AA", ".Zubs" or "OPP" in his name is just another retard, you fail.
PS2.  If You think someone without 100 kills in 5 minutes is just another retard, you fail.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

Timbo, Jex, Overflow, Veda, Dasprid, Who, Veda, khalsa.

they are the forum administrators. each one of them spent less time on this forum than me and they also have less posts. so, according to Ozzy, i am more competent and important than all of them. not to mention that maybe some of them doesn't even has a clan :-D

please bow.

[St. Anger]

Yahoo is famous

Haha indeed he is famous... From killwhoring, tking when someone is not following (sometimes very stupid)orders and talking shit about his "mindless team".
Exactly same is Kattana, but Yahoo doesnt have binded "Unlagged bullshit ffs abusers". +1 for him!
Actually half of Zubs are just bitching killwhores. You know why they don't play @ Dretch*Storm?
Because

they failed as they were stricken down to the ground

PS. If You think someone without "AA", ".Zubs" or "OPP" in his name is just another retard, you fail.
PS2.  If You think someone without 100 kills in 5 minutes is just another retard, you fail.

Zubs failed how exactly? Yahoo is only known with a bad reputation to noobs that nobody cares about, mainly speaking D*S and D*T, Kattana is a different story. We (Zubs) try to avoid D*S because it's filled with a bunch of fucking idiots that try votekicking good players because they think we aimbot, and the D*S players suck in general. Define killwhore for me, please. It seems that the majority of this community misuses the word all the time and tosses it around as they see players with high scores. Regardless of the time they managed to win the match.

[Lava Croft]

I don't give a fuck about other language boards. If you were posting there, my reputation there would be a factor, but you're not. You're posting here.

Edit: You're also saying things that I didn't. I never said I was famous, I said I was heavily involved with the "clan scene." When did I call anyone a noob? Now. You're a noob. I never said Tremulous.net is the only community, but it is the one you're posting on, therefore being the community relevant to this discussion.

And I don't find myself unknown when I leave my country's borders.

You want to talk famous... Yahoo is famous, Lakitu7 is famous, BloodyDemon(yes) is famous. Their name is known regardless of where you play. You sir, are not famous.

Anyone who plays Tremulous is part of this community, wether they use these forums or not, wether they are American or not, and so on. You seem to suffer from the classic American disease that does not let you look abroad, and while this could be forgiven, I happen to know tons of Americans that do look abroad, so this argument will not hold.
Most of the people you call famous are only famous in your parts, with the pleasant exeption of Lakitu7, since his work has no trouble to cross country borders. I have been hanging around with Tremulous since 2004, and of all the people you mentioned only, again, Lakitu7 will qualify as 'famous'.

[Yarou]

I fully support tremfusion, because it is time to move on.
This is the natural cycle of software development in the open source community, and mistakes were made in the planning of the next version.
Many people, myself included, have seen the destruction and ruin of Tremulous by devs who need not be named.
I wish tremfusion the best of luck,

- Yarou

PS: It's nothing personal. In fact, I tend to dislike the D*S community even moreso than others.

[Nux]

Who the fuck are you to make such statements, newcomer?

It's funny how this sparked a 'I'm more famous than you' topic. If I'm right, Lava was pointing out how your 'fame' means as little over in Europe as the european community seems to mean to you. So arguing that so-and-so is more famous than what's-his-face is completely missing the point.

If you're point is valid, it should be able to stand without the backing of your reputation (or lack of it).

Now I'll use my mighty reputation and assert that this TremFusion project is a very worthwhile venture and I fully condone it. If Nux says it's good, it MUST be good.

From some of the posts in this thread I get the impression that you don't even have to change the master server to split the 'community'.

A fair observation. Let's just hope that those who wish for 'splitting' get what they want and are 'split' from us permanently.

[Asvarox]

We (Zubs) try to avoid D*S because it's filled with a bunch of fucking idiots that try votekicking good players because they think we aimbot,

It was happening to me on many others servers even when im not that good until i decided to stay @ 1-2 servers. I think same problem have other popular FPS (like Urban Terror or WarRock).

Define killwhore for me, please. It seems that the majority of this community misuses the word all the time and tosses it around as they see players with high scores. Regardless of the time they managed to win the match.

Who is a killwhore for me? A person who has highscore without going to end a match be4 getting xxx kills/isn't going to end a match at all, talking about "ma-epic-skillz-which-will-pwn-you-in-less-than-30-sec", calling his team team retards because they don't have "ma-epic-skillz-which-will-pwn-you-in-less-than-30-sec" . Ok last part is fitting in "bitching"

I admit that i shouldn't call half of Zubs bitching killwhores since i know max 3 of You. Well i was talking mainly about Drakoniz (or something like that, sorry for miss spelling) who has joined DS, then started to bitch about his skill ("my rifle > you", "my mara > you"). Finally he  got owned by one of DS' regulars, then he said few nice words about polacks (he,regular, is from Poland) and making an epic ragequit.

Anyway i'm not sure talking about Zubs, clan community and who is who and for how long is fitting in this topic... I blame KamikOzzy for this mess!

[Yarou]

Lol?
My post has been removed?
This immaturity is absolutely ridiculous, if you can't handle the heat, don't stay in the kitchen.

[Archangel]

Tremfusion is a start to show the community what Tremulous 1.2 could be (and in my opinion, TremFusion IS the 1.2 everybody has been waiting for), and the community needs it. MG's changes are not all good (although the new cades are pro  ) , some are very annoying (20 hp dretch!  ) but TremFusion hasn't changed anything that's bugged me one bit. Perhaps others think the same way I do.

I do have to say though, seeing the VoIP patch in place (it wasn't so happy when I tried to get it to work) on TF's client made me very happy. I'm one of those unfortunate few who cannot use TS and Trem due to shitty ALSA drivers. :[

[Snake]

I seccond what Archangel said, Tremfusion is areally nice and well-made project, it doesnt matters if it is not from the "official devs" of tremulous, since its open software everyone can feel free to modify it and the tremfusion guys made a nice work!

Gj and Gl!

[KamikOzzy]

Actually OPP supports Tremfusion

I'll have to inquire further with them. Do you mean OPP as a clan, or certain members. For example, while I myself may support Tremfusion, I would say Zubs as a whole does not.

He wasn't comparing Tremulous to another game, he was comparing the Tremulous community to another game's community.

He said nothing about their community but rather their ability to contribute. While I agree it is a great benefit to be able to contribute to Trem, I don't believe the opportunity to heavily influence future versions should be handed to any nutcase who wants a crack at it. I guess in short, I love the way Tremulous is now, and I refuse to complain about the devs policies just because "it worked for some other game."

People want large servers. There is no reason for us to not let them have that.

I don't think people do. TJW certainly didn't advocate it, and the general impression of large servers around these parts (SST, DS, etc.) is that they are exclusively for the less-than-competent players. If your goal is to cater to the new players, I believe you are making a mistake. Though this will no doubt increase your popularity, it leads to compensations for lack of skill in order to appease the casual gamer. Trem for me has been a nerd's game with a few dedicated and loyal players being more valuable than an onslaught of weekend-gamer types that move on after a month or so.

Don't tell me you didn't have to do the same thing when you first downloaded trem.

This isn't about the initial setup, this is about *every* time I load the client, even after a week of use. Every alt+tab required me to reload at least twice.

It is up to Timbo to decide whether Tremfusion is a different game or not.

As long as you maintain compatibility, I don't see how anyone could assert that. Down the road if you choose to break this link, I don't expect you will consider both branches to be one.

If you want people interested in Tremfusion, you need to start releasing awesome stuff. Awesome stuff draws people in, not crappy threads.

Tremfusion is not done yet. Awesome stuff is coming SOON.

I believe you, and I look forward to it. THEN it will be time for epic threads, and you will have my support.

I made a retort for every one of you dumbasses who quoted me and aren't named Amanieu; please PM me if you would like to see my views, otherwise I am content to only address Amanieu's post.

[Lava Croft]

TremFusion IS the 1.2 everybody has been waiting for)

Remarks like this lay the foundations for a hostile environment.

Splitting it first would be a great defence, they won't get users without servers, and they won't get server without users.

From some of the posts in this thread I get the impression that you don't even have to change the master server to split the 'community'.

That is exactly what seems to be the goal of some people who seem to have some unfound fear that TremFusion might steal their potential thunder. People like this do not have Tremulous as their top priority, but their own social circle.

[clutch]

http://www.tremfusion.net/trac/wiki/OnGettingPlayers

Now it says your ass?? hmm someone is having fun

[Azrael07]

Sure... thanks for report

[Darth Futuza]

A few people have claimed that Tremfusion is 'stealing' Tremulous's player base.  I'm just curious as to why, these certain people don't think a person can play more than one game at a time (not literally)?  I play JKA and Tremulous, granted I don't run both games on my machine at the same time, but rather switch off between the games.  I like Tremulous, and if TremFusion turns out well, I might like it as well.  IS there something wrong with playing two games?  Do you perceive people like me as abominations, who play many games at once?  Am I a freak for playing Halo, JKA, Counter-Strike, and Tremulous?

[Syntac]

TremFusion is really just a modification of Tremulous with some additional features that may or may not come in handy. I don't see what all the fuss is about.