Author Topic: Election 08  (Read 51188 times)

Volt

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Election 08
« on: October 31, 2008, 11:08:29 pm »
I was wondering, those of you old enough to vote and eligible in the united states. Who you are planing on voting for this coming Tuesday?
I'm personally voting for "Barack Hussein Obama." Please if your able to vote, do so this  coming Tuesday.   

Discuss the candidates here, or w/e please keep it proper and No black faces thanks.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 11:10:41 pm by Volt »

Syntac

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2008, 11:14:42 pm »
Obama all the way. Where do they sell those "Barack and Roll" shirts?

Volt

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2008, 11:19:17 pm »

your face

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 11:49:41 pm »
nubama
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

Syntac

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 11:54:24 pm »
Awesome, thanks Volt.

Annihilation

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 11:59:55 pm »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.  Which kind of fucks over my entire family.  *woot for democracy*  *lets take hard earned money and give it to people who sell food stamps for achohol.*
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benmachine

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 12:49:23 am »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.  Which kind of fucks over my entire family.  *woot for democracy*  *lets take hard earned money and give it to people who sell food stamps for achohol.*

How inconsiderate of people to be poor!
If they had any sense of civic duty they'd do the decent thing and stop all this poverty nonsense.
benmachine

Bissig

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 01:19:20 am »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.  Which kind of fucks over my entire family.  *woot for democracy*  *lets take hard earned money and give it to people who sell food stamps for achohol.*

Bullcrap! What is he? Member of the M.O.D. squad?

Oh, my bad. I forgot about the plumber.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 02:10:36 am by Bissig »

Steely Ann

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 02:05:50 am »
words
I briefly had trouble discerning whether this was a subtle troll.  But then, I remember Powa being really lame at acting slick.  I lawl'd anyway.

Either way, this thread sucks (political discussions never get dull amirite?) and the Mario Bruthas are contrary-wise, at least snicker-worthy.



No black faces thanks.



Anyway, voting for Obama because he's my kind of man.  A pie man.

mooseberry

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 03:12:02 am »
Obama.
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Hendrich

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2008, 05:28:44 am »
Peter Griffin. He seems to be the most intelligent candidate so far.

1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQxRFP87a2s

2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pECsePiJW6o&feature=related

But on a serious note, my vote is out for Obama.

techhead

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2008, 05:30:04 am »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.  Which kind of fucks over my entire family.  *woot for democracy*  *lets take hard earned money and give it to people who sell food stamps for achohol.*
Your dad makes over $250,000?
Thats the baseline on Obama's proposed new tax deal.
Also, a lot of the new taxes are going to pay for the large deficit in the current budget.

Personally, I am voting for Obama myself.

Side note: Why doesn't the topic have a poll?
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kozak6

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2008, 06:30:57 am »
Probably Ralph Nader.

player1

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Re: Rejection 08
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2008, 07:42:52 am »
I'm lame & easily frightened - black socialist muslim man take daddy's money nao? 2 lazee but still crazee

Punch & Judy '08



Puppets You (Only Think You) Know

The above is a not-so-ringing endorsement of Barack Obama. This message was approved by PlayerOne. No actual voters were flamed by the content of this message.

Ron Paul/Jesse Ventura 2012

@kozak6: Hopefully, getting the matching funds we need to mount a real third-party campaign in 4 years won't take too much of the vote away from the Guy Who Ain't George W's Crony from Arizony. I salute your courage. If you live in a swing state, consider the implications of such clear-eyed idealism.

Archangel

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2008, 08:13:03 am »
Gotta love player1's wording.

gareth

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 02:30:24 pm »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.  Which kind of fucks over my entire family.  *woot for democracy*  *lets take hard earned money and give it to people who sell food stamps for achohol.*

you seem to care yet you arent voting...why?

~

i would vote for obama if i was american, as he appears to be the least worst out of the two.

Lava Croft

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 03:33:56 pm »
I would vote McCain, since Obama looks like a total fraud. McCain looks too goddamn stupid to be such a fraud, while his running mate is totally fuckable, which makes her an excellent potential president.

your face

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2008, 04:22:44 pm »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.

And Nubama will also fail everyone in the long run as well, why work hard if your money will simply go to people who don't deserve it? :P
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

Archangel

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2008, 08:52:03 pm »
I would vote McCain, since Obama looks like a total fraud. McCain looks too goddamn stupid to be such a fraud, while his running mate is totally fuckable, which makes her an excellent potential president.

I have to agree, she is a VPILF.

player1

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Re: Rejection 08
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2008, 08:53:24 pm »
me b lamer + scare easily
me b afraid of teh poor, teh oppressed, and teh disadvantaged; me rationalize selfishness + greed

sarcasm

I have to agree, she is the oil industry in a skirt.

Snake

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2008, 09:51:09 pm »
I'm gonna vote for NiTRoX :P
.

Annihilation

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2008, 10:55:17 pm »
I didn't register but if I was going to vote it would be for mccain.  Simply because if Obama wins my dad's business dies and he loses his house.  Which kind of fucks over my entire family.  *woot for democracy*  *lets take hard earned money and give it to people who sell food stamps for achohol.*
Your dad makes over $250,000?
Thats the baseline on Obama's proposed new tax deal.
Also, a lot of the new taxes are going to pay for the large deficit in the current budget.

Personally, I am voting for Obama myself.

Side note: Why doesn't the topic have a poll?

Let me explain something to you.

The word make is directly transending to profit.  If my dad profited 250,000 a year he would have absolutely no problem paying those kinds of taxes.

In business though, sales != profit.   (Sales - labors - product replacement - bills - taxes - misc costs) = profit.  Most small business try to keep profit enough to survive and eventually higher, but of course any increase in any of the costs makes a decrease in profit.  In turn in order to survive if taxes are increased we either need to sell our house and move into a cardboard box or lower something else.  Which 9/10 times will be labor.  Which means he fires one of his employees, gives fewer and smaller raises, and/or cuts hours.  Many jobs will face that if obama wins.  Because almost every small business moving(not profiting) 250k to 1m a year will cut labor guarenteed. 

Obama thinks he's taxing the wealthy more, but he is actually taxing small business more, since in the 250k to 1m earning range, almost 80% of it is businesses.  Which the owner only sees 50 to 150k of if he's lucky.  So out of natural greed and need to survive, the owner will obviously cut his employees wages before his own.  Its just the way capitalism works.

A regular person making 250k, gets the whole thing for personal costs, but a business has far more costs than a personal person that are actually mandatory.  A person can go without the extra buick or w/e they waste their shitloads of money on.  A business can't go without their lot and their product, so they have to cut labor.


@ gareth
  I filled out/mailed voting registration at my college but they never seemed to get it(lost in mail perhaps?).  I didn't bother to check or realize and didn't find out till a few days short of registration closing and didn't have the time.  If this was a swing state though I would of made the time.  I live, however, in Utah which is the redest state in the nation.  So it doesn't really matter what I vote, Utah is nowhere close to voting anything different from mccain.  It would take swarms of democrats moving here to even budge that.

@ player1
  I entirely agree with helping the poor, when they deserve it and work hard.  Some people just can't make it and need help.  But it pisses me the fuck off when I'm working and I see someone come in who doesn't speak english, doesn't have a job, and is spending the only actual money they have on a 24 back of bud and then use WIC to feed their children.  They need to spend that beer money on their children not my tax money.  If someone is honestly doing the best they can and need help, that is one thing.  But there is just way to many lazy fuckers not even attempting to make their own way and living off my ass.

@ benmachine
  There is a difference between being poor, and being a useless fucker who doens't bother to work.  For your info, my dad and I's combined income is less than 40k and I live in a fucking mobile home eating ramen noodles.  I work 60 to 70 hours a week and take whatever college I can afford/make time for.  I'm far from wealthy and have a below average lifestyle driving a 20 year old saturn.  I grew up in plenty of hard times including getting a job the second I turned 16 because my parents couldn't afford to pay the school fees/dinner a lot of times.  So I payed for my own school fees(granit which are moderate in public schools a little under 200 a year) and most of the time my own dinner/lunch.  So don't give me that cock fucking attitude.  I understand that there are people out there doing the best they can and just can't survive.  Plenty of these "poor" cunts however aren't doing shit.  I've busted my ass off since I was 14 and I'm almost nowhere.  Never once, however, have I asked for a hand out.  I'll dig myself out of this hole if it kills me so my future family doesn't have to grow up how I did.  Why do you think I spent 2 years playing tremulous(besides addiciton).  Because I can't afford the games all my friends play.



/rant


Edit :  My dad's business ins't in the 250k range yet, but based on projects he should be about half way into obama's term.  He's about 60% to being there.  His business does low percentages on its sales though as he doesn't have huge mark up due to competition.  So he's lucky after all his bills and labor of his two employees if he sees 20%.  So if his business does 200k, he'll only get 40k of that if he's lucky.  So if they increase taxes, that can get cut down.   He's already working an extra job, if he makes it to the 250k range and his business gets increases on taxes, he'll almost defintely have to fire on of his employees.  He's actually hoping his business doesn't grow if obama wins, thats kind of freaky to me.

My uncle however(runs a trash company) and does 300 to 400k a year.  He already said if that kind of tax increase hits him.  He'll be firing 2 to 3 of his drivers and/or cutting their hours.  Kind of scary considering I know most of the families who get fed because of their driving job for him.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 11:02:34 pm by Annihilation »
[11:33:20 PM] Kaine:
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Shadowgandor

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2008, 11:06:29 pm »
I thought it was personal profit, not profit, but I haven't really followed the debates at all. I just watch CNN now and then.

*twitch*
I'm an animal!
*twitch*

-wonders who will know what I'm talking about-

Bissig

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2008, 11:23:03 pm »
Strange country you live in when you do 40k and can't afford to rent a flat. What the fuck are you spending your money on?

I live in Germany, work at a food joint and earn about 8-9k netto per year. I can afford to share an appartment with a university student in the downtown of my city (high rent). I have health care and don't need to eat packaged noodles. I can't really afford going on vacation somewhere far off though. I upgrade my computer once in a while and don't buy expensive sneakers. But, I am living. If I was in your country I'd probably have no health care and live in my car. And why is that? Because rich sods like Bill Gates pay low to none taxes. So, please, hunt those assholes down. Not your neighbours.

It is really simple:

Republicans want low taxes so the big business can divert all the money to the few top earners. Of course, which such low taxes you can't afford a good educational system or good health care. This is exactly the problem. Your educational system is among the purest (quality wise) on the whole planet. If everyone payed high enough taxes and your country stopped invading a new country every week everyone could afford a good education and wouldn't need to go to work to go to school. What you call "college" is basic education in my country. It is part of the regular school system, not set apart for those who can afford it. People here live good but the overall taxes + social insurance are somewhere inbetween 40 and 60 percent of the income. At my low level of income I pay about >15 percent taxes and another 20-25 percent go into health insurance, into the pension system and the compulsory long term care insurance.

So, my overall pay off to the state is about 35-40 percent. And that is at entry level income. Still, my life is not too bad. And if I hadn't completely gone bored at the university I'd probably make some 50-80k Euro net per year. But that's my fault and another story.

One question though:

If your dad or your uncle can do the same amount of work with less people why do they employ surplus people?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 11:43:45 pm by Bissig »

Annihilation

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2008, 12:14:14 am »
Strange country you live in when you do 40k and can't afford to rent a flat. What the fuck are you spending your money on?

I live in Germany, work at a food joint and earn about 8-9k netto per year. I can afford to share an appartment with a university student in the downtown of my city (high rent). I have health care and don't need to eat packaged noodles. I can't really afford going on vacation somewhere far off though. I upgrade my computer once in a while and don't buy expensive sneakers. But, I am living. If I was in your country I'd probably have no health care and live in my car. And why is that? Because rich sods like Bill Gates pay low to none taxes. So, please, hunt those assholes down. Not your neighbours.

It is really simple:

Republicans want low taxes so the big business can divert all the money to the few top earners. Of course, which such low taxes you can't afford a good educational system or good health care. This is exactly the problem. Your educational system is among the purest (quality wise) on the whole planet. If everyone payed high enough taxes and your country stopped invading a new country every week everyone could afford a good education and wouldn't need to go to work to go to school. What you call "college" is basic education in my country. It is part of the regular school system, not set apart for those who can afford it. People here live good but the overall taxes + social insurance are somewhere inbetween 40 and 60 percent of the income. At my low level of income I pay about >15 percent taxes and another 20-25 percent go into health insurance, into the pension system and the compulsory long term care insurance.

So, my overall pay off to the state is about 35-40 percent. And that is at entry level income. Still, my life is not too bad. And if I hadn't completely gone bored at the university I'd probably make some 50-80k Euro net per year. But that's my fault and another story.

One question though:

If your dad or your uncle can do the same amount of work with less people why do they employ surplus people?

Combined income is under 40k.  Around here the housing is really bad right now, its more there is hardly any decent homes around here and also I'm not going to spend a large majority on rent since I wont ever see anything if we sell the house. 

Secondly, I'm perfectly fine with taxing indivudual incomes.  That is not obama's plan though.  It does indeed tax any income, business or personal of 250k.  Income is gross, gross is before ANY costs are made. 

I make personally almost 12k a year.  My dad is lucky if he gets 25 to 30k.  Since I pay for college and personal stuff, I only pay 200 a month rent.  This mobile home is techincally cemented and considered a flat house, but it still was a mobile home.  It appraises at 110.  So its payments are fairly high.  I don't know the exact number but its about 800 a month I believe. 

The ramen comment was a little harsh, I don't actually eat ramen for every meal, I eat fairly well because I worked my ass off to get over 7 dollars an hour.  Since the wages in utah are the some of the worst in the nation.  There have been times though like the week after paying tuition that I pretty much only eat ramen. :P

I entirely agree with increasing taxes on people who's indivudual income is high.  To try and help redisdripute weatlh.  If he do it to much though, it entirely defeats the purpose of freedom and capitilasm.  It means someone can't become succesfull for themselves.  Only for everyone else.  It is one thing to have a fair increase since they defintely have no problem surviving. 

I do agree our health system is horrid and I wish I could afford decent medical coverage.  Around here though its 40 bucks a month for 600 dollar coverage.(which is nothing)

Businesses grossing 250k are hardly top earners though.  Since business costs are often 75%+ of their gross.  Where as an individual spends maybe 50 to 60% of their gross on needed costs like rent and food.  Businesses have labor, supplies, and product replacement to worry about.

A business grossing 250k actually sees about the same profit as a person grossing 60k.  So businesses under 500k gross should if anything see a decrease in taxes so they can surplus more labor.


About the dad and comment uncle.  They don't hire surplus people, everyone of my uncle's employees and both of my dad's employees work 40 hours a week if their schedule allows.  My uncle works 60 hours a week and my dad pushes 90.  Thats the joy of starting a business.  Hire help when you can afford it so you dont' have to work 100 hours a week.  If it comes down to it though, you have to pay your bills first, since thats the whole reason you started a business.  So if he has to work 100 hours a week he will.  Neither of them have a surplus of labor, its actually pretty moderate and my uncle was looking to possibly bring in a couple more staff members since a few people have been having to work over 50 hours.  Not to mention, the more labor a company puts out far better for the community.  The community strives on jobs, if you see a community where every job opening gets 10+ applications, that community is struggling and unemployment is high.  Its generally because companies have less labor to use.  Wasting labor they have to use is bad, if they can afford to bring in more employees, its a positive thing to do such.  As not only does it help the business become more productive and the owner work more reasonable hours instead of the 60 to 90 most starter business owners work, but it feeds an extra family that was surviving off hand outs before.

Bottom line, no matter how you look at it and no matter who wins this election, american economics are still rather pathetic.  I just see things personally as getting a lot worse in the future if obama wins.

This is just my opinion, call it ignorant or pathetic or whatever.  Part of being free is being entitled to be ignorant I guess.  Either way as I stated before, it doesn't really matter at all who I vote for.  Since mccain had utah wrapped up before he was born.  Got to love partyship dedication.  Lets not vote for who we think is best, lets vote for what color their party is.  This country is rather messed up all around, especially politically.  There are still people who will only vote for obama because he is black and will only not vote for him because he is.  There is people that wont vote for mccain cause he's old and old people are old or other such stupid reasons.  Ignorance is everywhere and 75% of voters generally don't even know why they're voting.  They're just voting for what their friends and neighbors or their favorite rock star is. 

That is another reason I didn't rush to register, I feel personally that I am only moderately aware of the candidates policies as I've been to busy with school to pay a lot of attention.  I'd rather not make an "educated guess" on something as important as how my country is ran.  At least though, regardless, in the end.  I wont bitch over who wins, since I didn't earn that right by doing something about who wins.  Cheerios and live life the best ya can.
[11:33:20 PM] Kaine:
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Bissig

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2008, 12:32:36 am »
Thank you for your honest answer and clearing up what you ment!

This is what I do not get due to my still weak understanding of the english language/culture:

"So its payments are fairly high.  I don't know the exact number but its about 800 a month I believe." This is not the rent you are talking about, this is the credit rate for the mobile home?

I agree on the part that companies below a certain gross profit should not be taxed or taxed low. 200 dollar a month partial (?) rent for a mobile home seems very, very much. Thats a bit lower than what I pay for my share of the flat. And I am talking about a solid, three storey stone house in the old town/inner city parts of my prosperous city where the rents are rather high.

Reality is a bitch ain't it?

Well, things are getting worse here too. They now introduced a new layer of beaurocracy to divert money from "richer" health insurance companies to those with less good payers, which astoundingly leads to an increase in EVERY companies health insurance rates. It is the never ending paradoxy of beaurocracy: Less work, more costs.

Stupid politicians.

As usual the only solution to personal peace in this world is: Get rich fast and don't care a damn about anyone. (My ineptitude to live after that motto is probably why I am so bad off *g*)

Annihilation

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2008, 01:27:14 am »
Thank you for your honest answer and clearing up what you ment!

This is what I do not get due to my still weak understanding of the english language/culture:

"So its payments are fairly high.  I don't know the exact number but its about 800 a month I believe." This is not the rent you are talking about, this is the credit rate for the mobile home?

I agree on the part that companies below a certain gross profit should not be taxed or taxed low. 200 dollar a month partial (?) rent for a mobile home seems very, very much. Thats a bit lower than what I pay for my share of the flat. And I am talking about a solid, three storey stone house in the old town/inner city parts of my prosperous city where the rents are rather high.

Reality is a bitch ain't it?

Well, things are getting worse here too. They now introduced a new layer of beaurocracy to divert money from "richer" health insurance companies to those with less good payers, which astoundingly leads to an increase in EVERY companies health insurance rates. It is the never ending paradoxy of beaurocracy: Less work, more costs.

Stupid politicians.

As usual the only solution to personal peace in this world is: Get rich fast and don't care a damn about anyone. (My ineptitude to live after that motto is probably why I am so bad off *g*)

Around here, any rent under 400 is extremely cheap.  This is a 3 bedroom and about 800 square feet.

Yes I was referring to our rent, our actual rent is around 800 US dollars per month.  I have no clue what the exact number is as my dad does all the paperwork, I just pay my cut so he doesn't lose the house. 
 
Utah has I believe the second worst income to cost of living ratio in the nation.  So its hard to get a job 10 dollars an hour and over here and its really hard to find a 3 bedroom or bigger house for under 1000 a month.  A 3 story stone house here would be close to 2800 a month.
[11:33:20 PM] Kaine:
Quote from: KobraKaine
How do you perform goon-copulation if he doesn't play?
Quote from: PowerOverwhelming
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Volt

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2008, 01:27:38 am »
I would vote McCain, since Obama looks like a total fraud. McCain looks too goddamn stupid to be such a fraud, while his running mate is totally fuckable, which makes her an excellent potential president.

I have to agree, she is a VPILF.
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Annihilation

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2008, 01:43:12 am »
I would vote McCain, since Obama looks like a total fraud. McCain looks too goddamn stupid to be such a fraud, while his running mate is totally fuckable, which makes her an excellent potential president.

I have to agree, she is a VPILF.
Palin Pornstar lookalike
Seems there is money in palin porn :P
win
[11:33:20 PM] Kaine:
Quote from: KobraKaine
How do you perform goon-copulation if he doesn't play?
Quote from: PowerOverwhelming
We just get on VC and listen to camels dying until we orgasm

Bissig

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Re: Election 08
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2008, 01:46:15 am »
Thank you for your honest answer and clearing up what you ment!

This is what I do not get due to my still weak understanding of the english language/culture:

"So its payments are fairly high.  I don't know the exact number but its about 800 a month I believe." This is not the rent you are talking about, this is the credit rate for the mobile home?

I agree on the part that companies below a certain gross profit should not be taxed or taxed low. 200 dollar a month partial (?) rent for a mobile home seems very, very much. Thats a bit lower than what I pay for my share of the flat. And I am talking about a solid, three storey stone house in the old town/inner city parts of my prosperous city where the rents are rather high.

Reality is a bitch ain't it?

Well, things are getting worse here too. They now introduced a new layer of beaurocracy to divert money from "richer" health insurance companies to those with less good payers, which astoundingly leads to an increase in EVERY companies health insurance rates. It is the never ending paradoxy of beaurocracy: Less work, more costs.

Stupid politicians.

As usual the only solution to personal peace in this world is: Get rich fast and don't care a damn about anyone. (My ineptitude to live after that motto is probably why I am so bad off *g*)

Around here, any rent under 400 is extremely cheap.  This is a 3 bedroom and about 800 square feet.

Yes I was referring to our rent, our actual rent is around 800 US dollars per month.  I have no clue what the exact number is as my dad does all the paperwork, I just pay my cut so he doesn't lose the house. 
 
Utah has I believe the second worst income to cost of living ratio in the nation.  So its hard to get a job 10 dollars an hour and over here and its really hard to find a 3 bedroom or bigger house for under 1000 a month.  A 3 story stone house here would be close to 2800 a month.

Just to clear up:

I only share one of the flats in the three storey house. There are four flats in this house at about 500-700 Euro (~620-870 Dollar) each, including water consumption and heating.