Voting for deconstruction

[werepants]

So, we keep getting complaints about griefers, but there is pretty rampant opposition from many different sources on any voting system.  So, specify what you would prefer, and speak up if you have a new idea.

[Stof]

Global UserID ban is not possible. Not possible as in impossible as in don't lose your time doing it as in stoping losing our time asking for it !

I'm prety sure voting for decon is completly stupid and annoying. Although you could argue that I haven't tested it yet

Current vote implementation is bugged as hell. No need to freeze a player name during a vote and there's no reason a vote should fail in case a player changes his name. No matter what is the result of that pool, there is no reason not to fix that bug. And so, the pool option "Make it so that you cannot change your name during a vote" completly misses the point

Why is the stricter TK autokick bundled with the vote kick workaround bug fix in the pool ? What about those who would take the fix but are completly against any kind of TK autokick ?

Ok, I've voted other. My idea is :
- Fix the damn voting system ! Make it work. Make it so that you can vote kick anybody and it won't bug. Make it so that you cannot spam the voting system anymore.
- For TK problems ( and not about building TK ), something like the complaint system of W:ET should be good enouth. At least, there is no "Firing for Effect" nor any mines that lamers and noobs can use to get you kicked so it should work much better than in W:ET.
- For lamers using your name. I propose to use TWJ's GUID system and conbine it with a global name registration server. That way, when I'm playing with the name "Stof" and I'm using the correct password/GUID etc..., the game can then display a small icon near my name in the TAB screen and other people know it's me for certain. It won't prevent lamers from using your name though but it should preserve your reputation
- Best way to deal with lamers is to play on a server with admins. Try SATGNU, Lava *loves* to ban people and will be more than happy to nuke out the "poor" guy

[James[US]]

I thought of something simular to what you said.  Voting would be good, or requiring permission from the builder to decon his structures.  


All I know is something has to be done about these deconners.

[rasz_pl]

SATGNU you say? funny because that is the server we were just playing, TKer came, i jumped on irc, asked for admin and waited 10 minutes while they were discussing some _very_ important mathematical problem (like 2+2=5) .. i gave up ewentually

global player base + deconning only if player has positive feedback (>5h played on certified servers without a kick/ban, > 50 frags) or else fast vote for decon (fast = 2 ppl vote yes and deconning allowed)

do something, ANYTHING. Now any lame ass can download trem, die few times and decide do spoil the game to others. Even email registration before play would stop 99% of TKers/deconners, remaining few (one? two?) could be tracked to their IPs/IP polls and banned (f__k the collateral damage of banning whole IP pools)

[Stof]

SATGNU you say? funny because that is the server we were just playing, TKer came, i jumped on irc, asked for admin and waited 10 minutes while they were discussing some _very_ important mathematical problem (like 2+2=5) .. i gave up ewentually

global player base + deconning only if player has positive feedback (>5h played on certified servers without a kick/ban, > 50 frags) or else fast vote for decon (fast = 2 ppl vote yes and deconning allowed)

do something, ANYTHING. Now any lame ass can download trem, die few times and decide do spoil the game to others. Even email registration before play would stop 99% of TKers/deconners, remaining few (one? two?) could be tracked to their IPs/IP polls and banned (f__k the collateral damage of banning whole IP pools)

I'm sure you'll love it when you'll be part of that collateral damage :p

Besides, I didn't say there wasn't griefers on SATGNU, just that playing on servers with more active admins is good because there are far less griefers there.

Oh and EMail registration is fun. When the server handling the registrations is down, nobody plays. When a new player wants to try the game, he decides better to play something else than wait for a crappy email to tell him he has the right to play.

Griefers are annoying, but it's just a game and once vote/kick works ( with an automatic small ban of course ) at worse they'll mess with one game and that's all. What is a single game of Trem to you anyway ? Won/lost it's all the same and there's plenty more where it comes from

[rasz_pl]

You are of course right. Repairing Voting to vote on player ID + repairing TAB view to display IDs/TKs/Decons will help. I'm just pissed today, >6h and maybe 2-3 good games, the rest was tkers, blockers and deconners. I can live with blockers and TKers, but deconning = end of fun.

[Confess]

Erm, heres the deal: I play a game called "Continuum". The continuum server setup enables you to connect to a "Biller". This "Biller" saves all of your information. It saves scores, passwords, usernames (aliases), ip, volume id, machid, etc. This "Biller" enables Operators (Netop, Zone Op, Groupop) to ban people. I move that we have a central "Biller" that will store all of the usernames/etc. This will make banning a lot easier.

Zone Ops have the right to ban within the Server. They also can use commands such as ?alias to see who they are.
 -Zone Ops can only ban within the server.
 -Zone Ops can hand out lower zoneop powers, the owner of the server usually is givin the highest Zone Op Level, and he then hands out the lower levels to his admins.

Groupops have the commands from Zone Op, along with the ability to add Servers to the biller.
 -Each Groupop is given there own "Group". They can add Servers to the biller as they please, usually only if they host them.
 -Groupops can only ban within there group.
 -Groupops hand out ZoneOp status, but only to servers within there Group.

Netops have the commands from Zone Op and Groupop, and are managers of the whole Biller.
 -Netops can ban anywhere. Netops hand out the Groups to the Groupops, and the GroupOp status.
-----

Each group has levels. Level 0 being the highest, level 4 being the lowest. Each level has some different commands. Level 4 having the ability to ban, and level 0 having some other ones. Level 0 can ban anyone lower then him, but cannot ban other Level 0's. Level 1, can ban 2-4, but not higher then him or equal to him. This continues all the way down.
----

Please note: There should ONLY be ONE biller. Anymore then this will cause problems in the future. Also, when a Biller goes offline, the server will enter "Stand Alone" status, in which it will simply stay unconnected to the biller untill the biller comes online. One thing that we can do, however, is make it so that when one biller goes offline, it will redirect to another biller untill the primary biller is back online.

I hope this helps.

[Rekov]

Here is what I think needs to be done: You cant change your name when you are in the middle of a vote. That solves the problem right there.

Voting to decon or not is a horrible idea, because there are situations where you simply dont have 20 seconds or whatever to move every item in a base. As far as i can tell you can only run one vote at a time, so 20 seconds to decon everything? Rediculous. Its not just the reactor, its the telenodes too.


Even with bans, that doesnt stop the intial deconning of a base, but since it seems to be primarily two people doing this, tree and dad, knocking them out of the game should solve it quite easily, as only one restart would be needed.

The ban also needs a time one it. Perhaps 2 hours.

[Quaoar]

They tend to wait until S3, though.

They try joining when it IS at S3, so they can hit as many servers as possible. Ridiculous.

[Awakuganya]

Other. Team vote to give or take away an ability to decon from a player. (plus voting system fixed)

[chompers]

Nice idea Awa, but you'd also have to make them unable to shoot buildings, so everyone would disable themselves just so they could spam their own base with luci when the aliens are in it.

Maybe use reflective damage on players who've been 'disabled' so that TKing buildables kills them instead? But tbh, I think you'd start chasing your tail a bit, playing whack-a-mole with new kinds of griefing. To truly stop griefers it would take so many deep fundamental changes that you'd no longer be playing tremulous.

I think the only real answer is active admins on a server running tremded or whatever, and enough of them that there is usually one or two in game, tjw's server doesn't get these problems, does it?

[Quaoar]

You're right. We really need to overhaul how people get access to the game and how they are identified. All other fixes are just "after the fact" trying to cope, like pain relief for a disease, instead of attacking the disease itself. A better player identification system and, yes, admins, would make a big difference. Not that we shouldn't make the little gameplay changes that may thwart griefers... there is no reason to allow namechanging during votes, yet some servers allow it. Change that little fact, and you CAN maybe stop a griefer. Damage done, but he'd get kicked. If only you could vote to ban his GUID for some period of time... which we don't have, but would certainly help.

[Rekov]

The problem with banning GUIDs for a period of time is that you can hit an innocent too. I have already seen one post of this nature. It seems to be that players should be assinged a number as they download/install/register tremulous, and that they can change their name, but their number remains constant. In order to get a new number you would then have to reinstall trem, and reregister.

[Quaoar]

Umm, I believe that's what a GUID essentially is.

[werepants]

i still am in favor of the modified voting system.  I agree it would be hazardous and unnecessarily complicated to have to vote to move turrets in the beginning of the game, for instance.  But in what ways would it truly inconvenience anyone if there was only 1 thing you had to vote on? If all we had to do was vote whether or no to decon a reactor late in the game, it would be pretty unobtrusive.  It would also prevent the worst deconning.

Easy to implement, prevents near-instant human losses, and allows 99% of base moving without problem. :wink:

[rambone]

I don't get why people think there's some elite group of griefers doing all the nasty work here... In a game where you can choose ANY name you want, you can't tell if it's the same person. I TRIED to play yesterday, but on EVERY server there was a griefer. That's right, every server that appeared on my list. I could roll off names, [LLJK]MilMonkey, Aaaaargh, RosePL, etc... but it doesn't matter, since they could have been anyone.
  Until this game gets a better form of ID (user id or IP maybe), putting names of griefers in forums is worthless. FYI I'm pretty certain there are tons of griefers. I've even had the good fortune to play on a server with 4 deconners, yeah, 4 on just one server. That was a short game.

[rambone]

Whoops, forgot this fun little fact. On Three of the servers yesterday, innocent people were getting booted off, because the griefer put up votes saying that person deconned. I'm pretty sure that when a vote comes up, F1 is pressed automatically. It's awesome joining a server, and seeing a vote to kick you as soon as you start. AWESOME!

[Stasis]

Once again, I HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU USE THE ADMIN CONTACT THREAD to resolve issues as they warrant.

Edit: By the way, instead of the voting system, think something like this: When someone goes to decon the reactor, make it display a message in the center of each teammates screen, as well as the observing admins screens. This way, EVERYONE concerned knows who/what is going on. Also, should anyone try and be sneaky by decon and immediate disconnect, have the system ban for teamkilling. This is what I propose.

[Mataglap]

Yesterday I was playing a game with a very annoying deconner. We (aliens) couldn't kick him because he kept changing names. So I spent a couple of minutes typing random stuff into the console and found a magical command: clientkick. It can be issued by callvote, it kicks by player number (which you get from the list given by serverstatus command) and the best part: it actually worked and kicked the bastard

EDIT:
But it's still useless when they keep coming back. So a short (15 minutes?) ban after being kicked seems reasonable.

[yetshi]

just require 2 people to decon large structures and egg/teles, 3 to decon om/reactor and time equal to time to repair to decon smaller structures.

how ever long to takes to bring the health bar up for an item, thats how long it takes to decon it.

and you can block the decon by healing the structure.

takes care of the problem completely and no 20 wait to vote, since most peopel dont even look before voting.

[Quaoar]

just require 2 people to decon large structures and egg/teles, 3 to decon om/reactor and time equal to time to repair to decon smaller structures.

how ever long to takes to bring the health bar up for an item, thats how long it takes to decon it.

and you can block the decon by healing the structure.

takes care of the problem completely and no 20 wait to vote, since most peopel dont even look before voting.

You're literally making moving bases a huge pain to the point of making it completely unreasonable. And once again, I don't see how grappling with poor deconning is a proper solution. Antibiotics, not band-aids are needed. Three entire bodies to decon "HQ"?

[yetshi]

would only take a few seconds to decon and would stop the whole problem from happening.

either this or trem gets punkbuster.

[Chojin]

Well, yesterday evening >|ESA|Tremulous|< got raped by a very thorough deconstructor.

His name was " ". First he deconstructed the whole Human base. Since friendly fire was not on there was nothing we could do. He also voted kicks for almost everyone in the game. Trying to kick vote him either wasn't possible (because he had started a vote already) or he changed name for second. After the Human base was down, he joined Aliens and deconstructed their base. He did that until the server was empty.

BTW, he was spamming all the time: SatGNU MUST DIE

Something has to be done... There can't always be an admin around...