Monthly Tournaments!

[Nux]

About those deadlines I mentioned earlier.. have you set any deadlines? If you don't then you're in danger of doing as much nothing as caveman was talking about.

My personal priorities tend to be:

1. Ensuring matches are played.. NOW
2. Ensuring matches are fair
3. Ensuring matches are well documented
4. Ensuring the documentation looks pretty

What seems to be your highest priority is my lowest. I'm not saying everyone shares my priorities; Some might not play games which they expect will be unfair. Still, I don't think I'm alone with my bottom choice.

[Genki]

Arg, since everyone is so interested in -when- here's the soft dates I've set.

The times won't make sense because I find people get confused when converting GMT - even when I post the conversion for the common time zones. So the time will run on "RK time" which will be displayed on the website. For those who still have to know what time it'll be MST.

January 10th - Saturday
Team 1 v Team 2 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 3 v Team 4 @ Noon, Server 2
Team 5 v Team 6 @ 3, Server 1
Team 7 v Team 8 @ 3, Server 2

January 11th - Sunday
Team 9 v Team 10 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 11 v Team 12 @ Noon, Server 2
Team 13 v Team 14 @ 3, Server 1
Team 15 v Team 16 @ 3, Server 2

January 17th - Saturday
Team 1 v Team 3 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 5 v Team 7 @ Noon Server 2
Team 10 v Team 12 @ 3, Server 1
Team 14 v Team 16 @ 3, Server 2

January 18th - Sunday
Team 3 v Team 5 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 10 v Team 16 @ Noon, Server 2

Team 5 v Team 16 @ 3, Server 1

The "number" of your team will be random, so if you register first you will not necessarily face the team that registers right after you. However, until the website is complete I cannot open sign-ups to plan more thoroughly.

Also: I already have rules in place from the past tournaments I've run. See the settings, rules, match info, and team requirements here

[MrBigPing]

I think you guys (Caveman and Nux) are being a little tough on Genki, he's throwing an idea for you guys, not trying to make some thunder. Why does he need to start giving out times and places, it doesn't even sound like you are interested in playing, just looking to waste some time making his life harder. How about offering constructive criticism instead?

Genki - I think you should see how many people sign up before putting the dates and times up. This is your gig and I think it should be up to the players to pitch in if they want to see it happen.

[Caveman]

If you think we are tough on him, just wait and see.
His plans are recommendable, but if he does not get cracking soon they stay just that.... plans.

And don't think we don't know anything about it. Until now the *wraths were one of the few European server that were available for this. Every quartal there were different people trying to pull off what Genki plans.
Some succeeded, but most failed. Usually those that tried doing it on their own and only had fuzzy ideas.

Just like websites, they WILL FAIL if you plan the layout first and think about the content later.

The usual planing follows these simple steps:

- What
- Who
- When
- Where

Going through this thread, I can only check off "When". But the rest is still in Limbo.

Ping, ask yourself, would you enter this Tournament as it stands now?

[MrBigPing]

I already have, but that's a different matter, Genki has done these tournaments before and isn't having a pipedream, he wants to include the greater Tremulous non-clan groups on Tremulous.net in this so they can enjoy what a tournament is like, it's not about whether it will happen, it's about whether you want to join the fun or not.

[Genki]

What:
Tremulous Monthly Tournaments
A regular monthly tournament that people can look forward too

Who:
Teams of 5, hosted by RK
Open to US only if unlagged on
Open to everyone is unlagged off

When
Starts in January,
Sign-ups open when the website works, latest January 1st (a week for sign ups)

Where
The servers will be called
.:RK:. Alpha
.:RK:. Beta
.:RK:. Charlie~Lounge

You can check your ping by pinging singlehop.com or visiting one of our other servers

http://randomkeywhacking.com/forums/ - you can find where tournament discussion takes place.

The reason I -don't- want to open sign ups on a forum is that it is a pain in the ass to sift through the spam that always gets posted. This will also make it easier for me to send out mass messages and will make it easier for everyone to get information and reminders without having to look through forums.

I'm also sure that everyone will be happy with the sign up page once it's complete and free agents will have a better chance at finding a team then just posting they're interest in playing.

Like Ping said, I am not new to running tournaments. However most of my tournaments have been geared towards people who play on servers like KoR with lower grav, higher speed. I feel with monthly tournaments that including a wider group of people would be better.

[Nux]

Meh. I see your point caveman, but you could try putting it across less aggressively.

I agree that it's better to get things started early than not at all (mainly for the sake of experience for future matches) but I wouldn't say he's failing completely to set this up. So long as he sticks to deadlines there shouldn't be a problem. Also, advice is there to be taken at his leisure. He might end up proving himself wrong in which case at least he tried rather than spending the time debating it.

I think you guys (Caveman and Nux) are being a little tough on Genki...

I'm waiting for the guy who thinks Caveman, Nux AND MrBigPing is being too harsh. Come on, the ball is rolling now!

I wouldn't say my comments haven't had benefit. Now that he's given match times he's more likely to get things done.

..it doesn't even sound like you are interested in playing..

Bring it on! Remember my priorities? I'll play at any given opportunity!

[Genki]

I updated my first post to include a bunch of info.

[Annihilation]

If you knew anything about Genki, you'd know that she isn't all talk.  She is cooridinating the ideas and plans here, instead of at her own site like most tournaments do, that is the only difference.  I really would be surprised if I didn't see these tournaments pop up soon enough.  Good luck Genki and you can count AoD in.

[wireddd]

If you knew anything about Genki, you'd know that she isn't all talk.  She is cooridinating the ideas and plans here, instead of at her own site like most tournaments do, that is the only difference.  I really would be surprised if I didn't see these tournaments pop up soon enough.  Good luck Genki and you can count AoD in.

Seriously...

I am building the website right now, it should be done in a day or two. I already have the servers all ready to go.

[Annihilation]

If you knew anything about Genki, you'd know that she isn't all talk.  She is cooridinating the ideas and plans here, instead of at her own site like most tournaments do, that is the only difference.  I really would be surprised if I didn't see these tournaments pop up soon enough.  Good luck Genki and you can count AoD in.

Seriously...

I am building the website right now, it should be done in a day or two. I already have the servers all ready to go.

Thats the main thing right there.  If she decides to do something, you have no choice but to get it done wire hahahaha

[Genki]

Seriously...

I am building the website right now, it should be done in a day or two. I already have the servers all ready to go.

Thats the main thing right there.  If she decides to do something, you have no choice but to get it done wire hahahaha

hehe, but he doesn't mind it that much xD

If I did it I'd probably screw it up royally.

[[]LaDi|DaDi[]]

January 10th - Saturday
Team 1 v Team 2 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 3 v Team 4 @ Noon, Server 2
Team 5 v Team 6 @ 3, Server 1
Team 7 v Team 8 @ 3, Server 2

January 11th - Sunday
Team 9 v Team 10 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 11 v Team 12 @ Noon, Server 2
Team 13 v Team 14 @ 3, Server 1
Team 15 v Team 16 @ 3, Server 2

January 17th - Saturday
Team 1 v Team 3 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 5 v Team 7 @ Noon Server 2
Team 10 v Team 12 @ 3, Server 1
Team 14 v Team 16 @ 3, Server 2

January 18th - Sunday
Team 3 v Team 5 @ Noon, Server 1
Team 10 v Team 16 @ Noon, Server 2

Team 5 v Team 16 @ 3, Server 1

What happened to alot of the even numbered teams??

[FreaK]

sounds interesting, you can count )vR( in if its a clan-related tourney.

[Genki]

What happened to alot of the even numbered teams??

Bad luck :]

sounds interesting, you can count )vR( in if its a clan-related tourney.

It's an "open" tourney, meaning you can sign up a clan or just a group of people. I don't wanna shut anyone out just because they aren't in a clan.

Also! If you have a lot of members and want to sign up more then one team you can have )vR( and )vR2( or w/e you want.

[tyranis]

Two things:
A team should be allowed to play with four/etc. players if they do not have 5 available.
Also, no sudden death and only a 30 min. time limit will not encourage good games since draws are to be decided by kills.

[Genki]

1) I'm thinking that I'll go with teams of 5. 4 players, 1 sub. Possibly play 3v3 if both teams agree (cut down on forfeits).
2) I am -hoping- that someone has a better way of deciding a draw, till then it'll be by kill count, replaying a game takes too long (I had to do 4 replays last tournament, not happening again)

edit: Also, SD might come back depending on results on discussions that will take place later, once the website is complete enough.

[David]

Either, say if a draw both teams lose, force them to fight,  or have no time limit and just go until someone bothers to attack.

[Genki]

I should make it something like esd

spawns blow up, rets blow up, tubes/trappers, hovel etc.

everything but the om, rc, arm, medi and booster

And make it so the builds can't be destroyed, you have to kill the opposing team.

Also: you don't get max creds, it goes by however many credits you happen to have when it hits, that way there is no camping for creds.

which reminds me... free creds? If you don't die for a certain period of time if gives you a free evo/creds, should this be off?

[player1]

No, otherwise the builder has to go get kills, in a small and fast game. Makes it a little hard to concentrate on building. Unless you want the bases to be minimal, to force the games to end sooner.

[Annihilation]

I should make it something like esd

spawns blow up, rets blow up, tubes/trappers, hovel etc.

everything but the om, rc, arm, medi and booster

And make it so the builds can't be destroyed, you have to kill the opposing team.

Also: you don't get max creds, it goes by however many credits you happen to have when it hits, that way there is no camping for creds.

which reminds me... free creds? If you don't die for a certain period of time if gives you a free evo/creds, should this be off?

If you slaughter too much of the default settings, you'll lose a large playerbase.

I personally refuse to play with any sd changes like esd.  I can handle not having sd or pretty much any timelimit for sd.  I wont, however, play where there is any huge modifcations to sd or a new form of sd altogether.  It's obviously not balance tested and will lean matches making the tournament void of effecient play.

[Genki]

Mostly I'm looking for an easier way to call a draw. Kill count seems too ineffective for me. So I was looking for a way to make it end without a draw or a replay.

[kevlarman]

Mostly I'm looking for an easier way to call a draw. Kill count seems too ineffective for me. So I was looking for a way to make it end without a draw or a replay.

in the event of a draw the team that won in the shorter amount of time wins (like ut's assault/et's stopwatch/etc. gametypes). this has the side effect of heavily discouraging camping for credits/evos

[Harry Pothead]

Mostly I'm looking for an easier way to call a draw. Kill count seems too ineffective for me. So I was looking for a way to make it end without a draw or a replay.

in the event of a draw the team that won in the shorter amount of time wins (like ut's assault/et's stopwatch/etc. gametypes). this has the side effect of heavily discouraging camping for credits/evos

Wouldn't that only encourage aggression on the winning team's side? If you are starved, and your opponent is loaded, then rushing would be a mistake even with that rule because you would just feed and lose credits. With that rule, if you are sure that your opponent will win, then the best strategy would be to camp hardcore in order to drag the time out and force your opponent to take a long time to win the round.

For example, assume your team won round 1 as aliens in 40 minutes. In round 2, the time is 25 minutes, your team got raped by goons, they're 1 kill away from s3, and you are still s1. Then you have 2 options: fight, knowing you will have to face rants with s1 humans, or camp hard, knowing that all you have to do is stay alive until 40 minutes to win the match.

Every tie breaking method I could think of that doesn't require an extra round encourages camping.

To Genki:
Don't use kill count as a tie breaker. If you do, the winner of round 1 will definitely be the winner of the match. For instance, if you win round 1, all you have to do is decon all your shit and do /kill, and you guarantee yourself a win. If you try to fight, you risk losing the match in order to win the round.

kevlarman's suggestion is the best I have thought of without an extra round, but IMO having an extra round is still best.

[player1]

Which brings up another point. From what I know of Tremulous match play, the tradition is usually best-of-three, as single elimination often means that whichever team gets Aliens advances (although there are some really good players who can take any situation and make it work to their advantage: I've seen two saw-rushers take down five Aliens on ATCS). So each team gets to be Aliens at least once.

Personally, I would have it like this:

Game 1 - noon, Saturday (SD@30 min., TL=45 min. Players must be on server by 11:45 and have previously agreed to rules - no discussion of rules allowed at match time; all matches will start promptly at noon - 4 v 4 (plus 1 sub per team, teams with less than 4 players at match start forfeit)

Team Alpha - Aliens vs. Team Beta - Humans
Team Gamma - Aliens vs. Team Delta - Humans
Team Epsilon - Aliens vs. Team Zeta - Humans
Team Eta - Aliens vs. Team Theta - Humans

Game 2 - 1 pm, Saturday

same teams, switch sides
in the event of a draw (1 win each), whichever team won in the fastest time is declared the winner, as per kev's suggestion

Game 3 - noon, Sunday

Alpha/Beta winner - Aliens vs. Gamma/Delta winner - Humans
Epsilon/Zeta winner - Aliens vs. Eta/Theta winner - Humans

Game 4 - 1 pm, Sunday

same teams, switch sides
see above for draw

Game 5 - 2 pm, Sunday

A/B/G/D winner - Aliens vs. E/Z/e/Th winner - Humans

Game 6 - 3 pm, Sunday

same teams, switch sides
see above for draw

I like to call it Double Elimination. Each team plays their opponent twice before they can advance: once as Humans, and once as Aliens. Two wins to advance, or, in the event of a split decision (one win each), the team with the fastest win advances. Other teams can play the following weekend, then a Grand Tourney could have the winner of the first weekend against the winner of the second weekend (and possibly a Consolation match for the First Runner Up from each weekend, that is: the Second Place finishers). Then a week off, and then start over the first full weekend of the next month (both Saturday and Sunday fall within the month).

That way, nobody can complain that they got stuck playing Human, and that's why they suck lost.

[Genki]

hmmm interesting.

Yeah I normally go three rounds and there is always some complaint (hence the first come first serve)

I didn't want to do 4 rounds, as they would either have to be ridiculously short or the tournament would run longer then I'm willing to sit.

2 longer rounds sounds good, with still the 1 1/2 hour marker.

It's still single elimination as no eliminated team plays again.

When one round ends there will be a break before the second round starts, to switch out players, talk strategy, etc. Unless both teams want to continue immediately. Breaks will be 10 minutes long max

With player1's idea of 45 minute rounds...

January 10th - Saturday

(H) Team 1 v (A) Team 2 @ Noon, Server 1 (switch @ 12:45pm)
(H) Team 3 v (A) Team 4 @ Noon, Server 2 (switch @ 12:45pm)
End time: 1:40pm

(H) Team 5 v (A) Team 6 @ 2pm, Server 1 (switch @ 2:45pm)
(H) Team 7 v (A) Team 8@ 2pm, Server 2 (switch @ 2:45pm)
End time: 3:40pm

January 11th - Sunday

(H) Team 2 v (A) Team 4 @ Noon, Server 1 (switch @ 12:45pm)
(H) Team 6 v (A) Team 7 @ Noon, Server 2 (switch @ 12:45pm)
End time: 1:40pm

(H)Team 2 v (A) Team 7 @ 2pm (switch @ 2:45pm)
End time: 3:40pm

Updating rules, info, match times etc.

[kevlarman]

Wouldn't that only encourage aggression on the winning team's side?

that's the whole point, if you have the advantage but aren't trying to destroy your enemy's base, then either you don't really have an advantage, or you're doing something horribly wrong.

[Genki]

Ok updated first post. Since I've decided to have Unlagged on it will be limited to those in North America.

Thanks for your help guys. If anyone has anything more they would like to discuss keep posting. I'll check this regularly and soon post a link to sign-ups.

Also: I'm going to be registering on a lot of clan forums to spread the word. If you know any active clans/forums post it here, or if you would like to post on your own clan forums let me know and I'll give you the info. This will only happen once sign-ups work so that teams can sign-up immediately. Once sign-ups open rules will be locked so that no registered team is unhappy with the changes.

Last but not least:
With the TL 45 should SD be added back in? Yes or no.

[Annihilation]

Last but not least:
With the TL 45 should SD be added back in? Yes or no.

Absolutely.

Otherwise you'll see a few 45 minute long games.

[David]

Why US only?
The whole point of unlagged it its lets us euros play with the Americans without handicap..