Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: ghostshell on December 29, 2008, 11:23:43 pm
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Hi,
Introducing the "Unleashed Tremulous" project (untrem for short).
I'm working on this project based on the Tremulous 1.1.0 code base. Unlike the various efforts to develop and improve Tremulous, this project is for research and learning. But ultimately it will become its own game. I'm writing a story behind Tremulous and expanding on it with concepts from SST, Aliens and other sci-fi movies. The reason for this post is to invite everyone, and get blessing for the name :) I appreciate this community and the last thing I want is alienate anyone or think I'm "stealing" Tremulous. The project aims for a large conversion, including new models and maps, including player classes (TF2) and AI characters. The core Trem concepts of base-building and distinct teams will remain.
Some ideas:
- Backport 1.1.0 to Xreal (Tr3b has done a lot of this already) to get us started.
- Convert default Trem maps to Doom3 (at least those we got sources for) and experiment adding Xreal features
- Convert all models to MD5, or die trying
- New male and female MD5 models
- Refacture human weapons (think Aliens + SST)
- Refacture alien characters + models
- Ragdoll physics (Bullet engine is being assessed)
- Basic light vehicles (replace jetpack and bsuit)
- Add AI lifeforms available to mappers for interacting with both teams (plants / beasts that kill)
- Add roles for players: support, combat, defense each with different purpose/weapons.
- Some goriness features: blood, gibs, corpses, alien feeding, severing of limbs
- More uses for alien acid
There is no website yet. If you want to learn Xreal, MD5 modeling and animation, Doom3 maps, adapting physics, etc. - then you are welcome to join this effort. Previous experience with ioq3 or blender and/or q3map2 is a must. Contact me via PM here or at obliter8.com.
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Well, I have mixed feelings for this project. On one hand, you are taking Tremulous to a whole new level, and adding new features, ideas and vehicles to the mix. On the other, it seems to sound less then Tremulous, and more of something else. But I wish your group goodluck on this project, I hope it doesn't die.
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Sounds like a rather ambitious project.
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Good luck, but please make sure to include an option to turn off gore effects, as not everyone likes them :)
As for the name, it sounds like you are making trem worse.
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Reminescent of tremfusion.
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- Backport 1.1.0 to Xreal (Tr3b has done a lot of this already) to get us started.
Hi.
I think TremFusion devs could help you at this. :)
All my whish of luck!
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Sounds like a three to five years project... Have fun!
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Indeed, a large undertaking. I agree with Hendrich, it doesn't sound like Tremulous, anymore. It's basically saying "I'll take Half-Life 2, and turn it into Halo 3. All the core concepts of Half-Life will remain, such as an alien force attempting to rule a geographic location, a zombie army, and a really cool car with a gun." That being said, I would (at least) give UnTrem it's fair playing time, when(if)ever it gets finished.
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Need an idea for the third team?
Well, name the Tremulous Aliens "Arkans" (similarish to arachnid, and they are basically just giant spiders) and make a third one called "Rodvinans" or something. Make them former allies with the humans, before the humans betrayed them.
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Need an idea for the third team?
Well, name the Tremulous Aliens "Arkans" (similarish to arachnid, and they are basically just giant spiders) and make a third one called "Rodvinans" or something. Make them former allies with the humans, before the humans betrayed them.
Woah, slow that thought train for a second. Correct me if I'm wrong, but where did a third race come from? I thought this was about UnTrem and I didn't see anything about another team.
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Two things:
1) Based on the fact that the name you chose is "UnTrem", that is "Not Tremulous" (that's what that prefix means to me), I can understand if the final result is not Tremulous.
2) As stated above, sounds like a tall order. Good luck with your mod.
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Nexuiz.
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
The amount of work required for that is likely to exceed everything in todo list in the first post. There are already FPS games with more than two teams out there.
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I have always found class-based shooters frustrating. To a lesser extent, the Battlefield series or the ET series, to a greater extent Team Fortress (which I hate with a passion).
I always find myself not enjoying the game (by which I mean TF2, and also the one you just lost) because I can't decide on a class to go. BF is much better because it is on a large scale, and the fairly steady flow of unlocks keeps a class interesting (assault medic ftw).
What I like about Trem is that it isn't class based. Since you lose all your upgrades when you die, it doesn't keep you thinking "Well, maybe I should try the bigger gun next time" because the bigger gun will cost more and you'll need to first get back the credits you just lost last time you died. It's much more like that wallking cesspit of a game, Counter-Strike, except with hitboxes that actually represent the playermodel, or weapons that retain some degree of accuracy while firing. Also it has Aliens.
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- Basic light vehicles (replace jetpack and bsuit)
How about instead of getting rid of the jetpack altogether, have a more realistic jetpack that acts more realistically like from Tribes Vengeance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdTqQwlskA).
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Bad name for a mod, methinks. Sounds like X.
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- Basic light vehicles (replace jetpack and bsuit)
How about instead of getting rid of the jetpack altogether, have a more realistic jetpack that acts more realistically like from Tribes Vengeance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdTqQwlskA).
Maybe a decent description?
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Only lasts for a certain amount of time before it has to recharge, and is more of a jet, than an easily controllable floaty thingy.
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To me at first, the jetpack was more hover then I wanted. I got used to it as the time passed on, but I would love to see a jetpack that throttles forward and actually lets you fly instead of acting like a hot air balloon, and as Face suggested, a bit of realism wouldn't hurt for a "Conversion" like this.
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Jump Pack > Jet pack.
I wants me some Assault Marines (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2188/1550569405_af4a1d5c7a.jpg?v=0) for Tremulous.
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Bad name for a mod, methinks. Sounds like X.
It's alright, it's just a total conversion of a total conversion.
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I wish you the best of luck on your new game.
Being that it is basically a whole new game, I'd suggest giving it a new and completely unique name, then maybe have your website or something in-game pointing to your roots in Tremulous. I think you would be doing yourself a disservice by naming it "This is Tremulous but not Tremulous."
If you need any help that I can provide, please don't hesitate to ask through the usual channels.
Khalsa
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Need an idea for the third team?
Well, name the Tremulous Aliens "Arkans" (similarish to arachnid, and they are basically just giant spiders) and make a third one called "Rodvinans" or something. Make them former allies with the humans, before the humans betrayed them.
tremulous aliens = 3 pairs of legs :) arkans = spiders = 4 pairs of legs >:(
rodvinans = they could be like killed humans that are mutated by aliens poison/acid or something like that
and if u are rly going to make this game, please make a new evolve thing, example: some kind of goo or spiderweb like thing goes all over the alien and after few seconds the goo/spiderweb like thing gets bigger and starts to crack and then the evolved alien comes out. and the stage system could be like tech levels [ stage 1 = tech1 , etc...] .
do you have any ideas what would the "Rodvinans" look like?
[i dont care if i wrote some things wrong]
;D :turret:
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Please make a working Mac version if at all possible. I tried not all that long ago, but ran into a few problems. The first was that the GLSL preprocessor in my version of OpenGL is broken. To deal with this, I made a universal version of libmcpp.a, which is an open source preprocessor library, and then set it up to be used on the GLSL shaders right before they get submitted to OpenGL. After I got that all sorted out, I tried running xreal again. The GLSL shaders successfully compiled, but before it displayed the main menu or any intro videos, OpenGL/my graphics card driver crashed, leading to a kernel panic. After a failed attempt to track down the cause of the crash, I gave up. If you want, I can submit a patch containing my porting efforts, although it would include several pre-made binaries.
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Please make a working Mac version if at all possible. I tried not all that long ago, but ran into a few problems. The first was that the GLSL preprocessor in my version of OpenGL is broken. To deal with this, I made a universal version of libmcpp.a, which is an open source preprocessor library, and then set it up to be used on the GLSL shaders right before they get submitted to OpenGL. After I got that all sorted out, I tried running xreal again. The GLSL shaders successfully compiled, but before it displayed the main menu or any intro videos, OpenGL/my graphics card driver crashed, leading to a kernel panic. After a failed attempt to track down the cause of the crash, I gave up. If you want, I can submit a patch containing my porting efforts, although it would include several pre-made binaries.
Could be due to your graphic drivers. Maybe it would work with another brand or newer drivers.
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Please make a working Mac version if at all possible. I tried not all that long ago, but ran into a few problems. The first was that the GLSL preprocessor in my version of OpenGL is broken. To deal with this, I made a universal version of libmcpp.a, which is an open source preprocessor library, and then set it up to be used on the GLSL shaders right before they get submitted to OpenGL. After I got that all sorted out, I tried running xreal again. The GLSL shaders successfully compiled, but before it displayed the main menu or any intro videos, OpenGL/my graphics card driver crashed, leading to a kernel panic. After a failed attempt to track down the cause of the crash, I gave up. If you want, I can submit a patch containing my porting efforts, although it would include several pre-made binaries.
Could be due to your graphic drivers. Maybe it would work with another brand or newer drivers.
Believe me, I've looked for newer drivers, and there are none. I haven't tried using a different graphics card because 1) I can't change the one in my laptop and 2) I have not yet installed scons on the family imac. Does anyone know what version of OpenGL is used in 10.5? Cause my computer seems to have something like 1.4.9 or something like that, although it has a tremendous number of extensions, including some that theoretically were not introduced until 1.5
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Believe me, I've looked for newer drivers, and there are none. I haven't tried using a different graphics card because 1) I can't change the one in my laptop and 2) I have not yet installed scons on the family imac. Does anyone know what version of OpenGL is used in 10.5? Cause my computer seems to have something like 1.4.9 or something like that, although it has a tremendous number of extensions, including some that theoretically were not introduced until 1.5
Try asking that as a new thread, we don't want this thread to be locked due to off-topicness.
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Believe me, I've looked for newer drivers, and there are none. I haven't tried using a different graphics card because 1) I can't change the one in my laptop and 2) I have not yet installed scons on the family imac. Does anyone know what version of OpenGL is used in 10.5? Cause my computer seems to have something like 1.4.9 or something like that, although it has a tremendous number of extensions, including some that theoretically were not introduced until 1.5
Try asking that as a new thread, we don't want this thread to be locked due to off-topicness.
you're the one being offtopic (and now you've made me be offtopic)
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Believe me, I've looked for newer drivers, and there are none. I haven't tried using a different graphics card because 1) I can't change the one in my laptop and 2) I have not yet installed scons on the family imac. Does anyone know what version of OpenGL is used in 10.5? Cause my computer seems to have something like 1.4.9 or something like that, although it has a tremendous number of extensions, including some that theoretically were not introduced until 1.5
Try asking that as a new thread, we don't want this thread to be locked due to off-topicness.
you're the one being offtopic (and now you've made me be offtopic)
It's contagious.
@doomagent13: MacBook?
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Believe me, I've looked for newer drivers, and there are none. I haven't tried using a different graphics card because 1) I can't change the one in my laptop and 2) I have not yet installed scons on the family imac. Does anyone know what version of OpenGL is used in 10.5? Cause my computer seems to have something like 1.4.9 or something like that, although it has a tremendous number of extensions, including some that theoretically were not introduced until 1.5
Try asking that as a new thread, we don't want this thread to be locked due to off-topicness.
you're the one being offtopic (and now you've made me be offtopic)
It's contagious.
@doomagent13: MacBook?
Are you suggesting that I get one? Cause I probably will within the next couple years. (aka, when I go to college) For now I am stuck with a 1.5 GHz PowerBook G4 with an ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 and 1 GB RAM. (The RAM shouldn't be the problem.)
@Hendrich:
It wasn't all that off-topic. I was inquiring for the purpose of seeing whether it might be easier to port to 10.5 over 10.4.11. I have a suspicion, though, that the OpenGL version is entirely dependent on the graphics card rather than the OS version. In which case it does not matter.
Anyway, I could try compiling and running it on the family imac sometime, although I kinda expect similar results.
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I believe Xreal require OpenGL 2.0
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This project is still alive and kicking. nothing to show yet, but it is becoming its own game. for now it's called it DretchStorm, for lack of a better name. I want it to remind people that it's related to tremulous but it's not tremulous.
"Project DretchStorm is an FPS based on the Tremulous universe. The goal is to build on the gameplay of Tremulous version 1.1(ish) and extend its features and introduce new tech."
Classes are gone in favor of XP accomplishments. More XP will unlock new weapons, skins and abilities. XP can decreased based on different factors too, so you can lose what you have if you dont behave, for example.
New buildables are planned, and new models for existing ones. Telenodes are replaced with BioNodes (spawn and use XP points)
etc. etc..
right now the effort is to integrate with xreal and learn all we need to learn about making maps, models under xreal. lots of graphics work that I know little about. if anyone wants to contribute new models (interesting alien models welcome), help with rigging/animation, please contact me.
You can find me on #gameboom @ irc.freenode.net
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Still not sure about this, but good luck nevertheless.
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I'll be interested when it has something to show.
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It sounds interesting if it does get released.
I've always wanted to see tremulous on xreal, truly taking advantage of the engine.
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I compiled it once for 1.1. On the lowest quality (and highest performance) settings, I got 20 FPS max on both the default Xreal game and the port of Tremulous. On default Tremulous, I hit 125 FPS (and that's because I have com_maxfps set to 125). So all I can say is the engine isn't for me ;)
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Need an idea for the third team?
Well, name the Tremulous Aliens "Arkans" (similarish to arachnid, and they are basically just giant spiders) and make a third one called "Rodvinans" or something. Make them former allies with the humans, before the humans betrayed them.
Look up Unvanquished. They're doing that. It's a 3-team version of Tremulous, many of the Tremfusion people were involved in it.
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Need an idea for the third team?
Well, name the Tremulous Aliens "Arkans" (similarish to arachnid, and they are basically just giant spiders) and make a third one called "Rodvinans" or something. Make them former allies with the humans, before the humans betrayed them.
Look up Unvanquished. They added an animated ballsack to trem.
Fix'd
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Throw in a third team. All these multiplayer games are all two team or FFA deals, I wanna play a THREE team FPS for once!
Need an idea for the third team?
Well, name the Tremulous Aliens "Arkans" (similarish to arachnid, and they are basically just giant spiders) and make a third one called "Rodvinans" or something. Make them former allies with the humans, before the humans betrayed them.
Look up Unvanquished. They added an animated ballsack to trem.
Fix'd
It's very rude to misquote people - fix your difficulty with this concept
This is a link to the Unvanquished if anyone is interested
http://unvanquished.net/forum/index.php
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Unvanquished isn't making any progress, so it's currently dead. Also, he was joking.
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Unvanquished isn't making any progress, so it's currently dead. Also, he was joking.
On hold is the appropriate term. We decided that there were more pressing concerns within the Tremulous community to attend to.
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Look up Unvanquished. They added an animated ballsack to trem.
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It's widely acceptable to misquote people - fix'd
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Look up Unvanquished. They added an animated ballsack to trem.
Fix'd
Three baby yokais just died. >:(
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I'll be interested when it has something to show.
This.
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Out of curiosity ghost, why try to make the gameplay more 1.1ish? 1.1 had its redeeming features and all, but I think when it comes down to it the GPP is better. Sure, it has its issues, but 1.1 had some major balance breaking ones. Hope those are addressed in your projecet, and I wish you the best of luck.
~Medi
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How's about the fact that tremulous became most popular as 1.1 and that there is still a major portion of tremulous players who choose to stick with 1.1 and who wouldn't mind playing an updated version if it didn't change the game so drastically?
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How's about the fact that tremulous became most popular as 1.1 and that there is still a major portion of tremulous players who choose to stick with 1.1 and who wouldn't mind playing an updated version if it didn't change the game so drastically?
Of which majority have played 1.2 for only two hours or only crappy Phase 1 from a year ago.
What on earth are those drastic changes?
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By drastic change, I'm refering to the step from the 1.1 to the current GPP release being the net result of a long period of tweaks. To anyone who was involved in the testing period I'm sure each of these tweaks were small enough to adapt to without much pain, and the fact that they had commited to testing it required that they keep adjusting until what is now GPP IS the tremulous they know. To anyone else, it takes a conscious effort to readjust thier reflexes and habits and I'm afraid we just won't do so unless there is a good reason to do it.
One good reason could be new graphics, but we haven't got those yet. Another could be balancing, but if you think that's enough reason in itself then I think you're forgetting that these people have played tremulous this long and enjoyed it despite any imbalance there might be (which I personally feel is highly related to levels of teamplay in public games and feel the reward system for camping is the real issue).
Doesn't the fact that- if what you say is true -the majority of those who prefer 1.1 have only tried 1.2 for ~2 hours tell you that maybe it made a bad impression on them? I'd say you need to work on your incentive for the changeover.
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I think the only reason people are still playing 1.1 is because it's still the official version.
If 1.2 is released without the horrible replacement sounds nobody would play 1.1 anymore.
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Ok, some possible reasons for their dismissal of GPP may include:
- lack of hovel
- a tendency to get muted moments after joining the official servers, for obvious reasons.
- no truly ridiculous mods, just how popular is a straight game of trem 1.1 thesedays?
- suffering a severe ego bruising when it turns out they're not quite so pr0 in gpp.
- the widespread preconception that gpp just plain sucks, just see past forum posts for displays of inexplicable animosity toward the idea of change.
While GPP gameplay has changed a bit, it's hardly a great upheaval, if you're prepared to play poorly while you adjust then you should cope just fine with the transition, if your ego can't cope with this, that's unfortunate, but you could always, i don't know, just pretend to be polish or something until you feel ready to come out.
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If 1.2 is released without the horrible replacement sounds nobody would play 1.1 anymore.
Im not sure that all will switch to 1.2 release, but I personally wont switch before 1.2 come out. After official release i will wait until our clan coders/moders fix some shit in 1.2 (death cam for example) and until they add some features and release 1.1 mod for 1.2
After it i will play in sort of '1.2' for sure. =)
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What's wrong with death cam?
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Its useless and hurting eyes. When roaming dretch killing you its just insane. Other aliens too. For me and most players i asked it real headache.
May be such 'improvements' sould have variable to turn them off. And settings menu position too.
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Yeahm, I have to agree about the death cam. It's a nice idea but sadly ends up annoying me.
Put simply, in 1.1 you can tell your dead on such a basic level (moving mouse + viewpoint motionless = Dead) that you use bearly any brain power in realising it. This death cam breaks that logic by making it probable that the viewpoint will move despite you having died. Might sound simple enough but it's a relatively significant increase in complexity for your reflexes to adjust to especially if you've played 1.1 so long it's strongly ingrained in your brain.
Don't forget that tremulous is an FPS, meaning it's highly dependent on twitch reflexes. Yes, you can adjust but you could make the same argument for any bad change. The key question is what makes adjusting to it worth it?
Please change the death cam back, I don't need to see my enemy run away. If you want to have it track your killer then at least don't fix the middle of the screen onto them like an aimbot. The jerky unexpected motion is what gives people headaches. You could try making it only move when the player hits an edge or smooth the motion to at least get rid of the jerkiness.
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I think there are much more important issues. Like the end game twice as long comparing to 1.1 click to set ready thing.
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By drastic change, I'm refering to the step from the 1.1 to the current GPP release being the net result of a long period of tweaks. To anyone who was involved in the testing period I'm sure each of these tweaks were small enough to adapt to without much pain, and the fact that they had commited to testing it required that they keep adjusting until what is now GPP IS the tremulous they know. To anyone else, it takes a conscious effort to readjust thier reflexes and habits and I'm afraid we just won't do so unless there is a good reason to do it.
One good reason could be new graphics, but we haven't got those yet. Another could be balancing, but if you think that's enough reason in itself then I think you're forgetting that these people have played tremulous this long and enjoyed it despite any imbalance there might be (which I personally feel is highly related to levels of teamplay in public games and feel the reward system for camping is the real issue).
Doesn't the fact that- if what you say is true -the majority of those who prefer 1.1 have only tried 1.2 for ~2 hours tell you that maybe it made a bad impression on them? I'd say you need to work on your incentive for the changeover.
So no real reason, but it's just a pain to try something new? It's just like I said, you're one of those who have tried it for two hours and complain about a death cam.
I played 1.1 for three years and haven't had any tears leaving it. It's not about balancing or graphics. It's about those gameplay improvements that really make it a funner version. Lesser camping, working forward building, to be able to finish games pre-S3. Still got the nice fast gameplay too, and scrims are even more fun!
I've been there, Phase 1 was truly horrible. Tried even to make a 1.1 mod for 1.2 since it was so frustrating with the new version. Then they released a few more phases and fixed the problems. It's true it takes time to get adjusted to, I took two weeks, but the only thing holding you is that you're trying so much to grasp that 1.1 nostalgia. Why not take the learning period as when you started 1.1 as a complete newbie?
If you play it more than this CATAHA fellow here (a whopping 30 minutes! (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1p6/player_details.php?player_id=10856)), you really won't be disappointed.
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So no real reason, but it's just a pain to try something new? It's just like I said, you're one of those who have tried it for two hours and complain about a death cam.
I played 1.1 for three years and haven't had any tears leaving it. It's not about balancing or graphics. It's about those gameplay improvements that really make it a funner version. Lesser camping, working forward building, to be able to finish games pre-S3. Still got the nice fast gameplay too, and scrims are even more fun!
I've been there, Phase 1 was truly horrible. Tried even to make a 1.1 mod for 1.2 since it was so frustrating with the new version. Then they released a few more phases and fixed the problems. It's true it takes time to get adjusted to, I took two weeks, but the only thing holding you is that you're trying so much to grasp that 1.1 nostalgia. Why not take the learning period as when you started 1.1 as a complete newbie?
If you play it more than this CATAHA fellow here (a whopping 30 minutes! (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1p6/player_details.php?player_id=10856)), you really won't be disappointed.
LoL, you think if 'death cam' ugly and making headache, then some more time in game will fix it? Lolly opinion, for real. I know you big fan of 1.2 but its not forcing you make such lolly opinions. Im not saying its crap for all payers, i saying there should be variable to turn that crap off since many players dont like it!
And ye, very lolly. Im playing in Trem for YEARS too. 30 min is enough for me for test all new features and possibilities. In any case im waiting for final 1.2 release, but i dont think it will make much difference for my personal opinion. I can only repeat (so u can stop raging me): I understand all 1.2 features and new gameplay. I understand why its done that way. But i just dont like it. Its my personal opinion. And personally i think 1.2 gameplay cant be compared with 1.1 gameplay. It totally different. And between this two gameplays i prefer 1.1 trem.
About links... its funny to hear you agree with all improvements since i heard about this http://ddos-tremulous.eu/projects/balance/ (http://ddos-tremulous.eu/projects/balance/) project. Why so many rollbacks to 1.1 value? =D
No offence, seriously. Lets just take that every player have its own preferences. For example some players love Fallout 2 and hate Fallout 3, some love Fallout 3 and hate Fallout 2... some like or hate both. You can not expect that all players will enjoy the new concept of gameplay.
And once again... IM NOT THINKING 1.2 CRAP! I just personally dont like it and see many things that should be added/removed in 1.2 =]
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LoL, you think if 'death cam' ugly and making headache, then some more time in game will fix it? Lolly opinion, for real. I know you big fan of 1.2 but its not forcing you make such lolly opinions. Im not saying its crap for all payers, i saying there should be variable to turn that crap off since many players dont like it!
Your English skill is failing you again. The point is that all you guys are doing is playing 1.2 and not commenting any of value, but instead complaining about the death cam for christ's sake.
Then again it seems like you did not even read my post through:I've been there, Phase 1 was truly horrible. Tried even to make a 1.1 mod for 1.2 since it was so frustrating with the new version. Then they released a few more phases and fixed the problems
About links... its funny to hear you agree with all improvements since i heard about this http://ddos-tremulous.eu/projects/balance/ (http://ddos-tremulous.eu/projects/balance/) project. Why so many rollbacks to 1.1 value? =D
Makes sense now?
And ye, very lolly. Im playing in Trem for YEARS too. 30 min is enough for me for test all new features and possibilities.
I won't even comment on this one as you'll ridicule yourself anyways with it.
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I dont really mind the Death Cam, but if it bugs you guys, there should be an option.
In TF2, there was where the camer looks at your body for a second, then zooms right in front of a player, takes a picture of him, you look at the picture for a second or two then you respawn. Maybe even 3rd person spectate the player for a couple seconds, and show like their score, hp, class, kills/deaths this round ETC at the top left corner.
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I don't like the death cam.
Having blood cover the screen (top to bottom) would be less annoying. :D
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I don't personally like it either but is it really a big deal?
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Lol, I've never really noticed the deathcam. It's really not a big deal at all. If you guys tried playing GPP for a bit, I'm sure most of you will end up liking it more than you think you will.
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Lol, I've never really noticed the deathcam. It's really not a big deal at all. If you guys tried playing GPP for a bit, I'm sure most of you will end up liking it more than you think you will.
QFT!
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Nice troll attempt Meiss. English not my native language at all, i noticed it many times. Or you just cant understand what im talking about? Seems you cant since you again quoting same shit as before. I played last stage of 1.2 trem and when i talking about 1.2 i talking about LAST stage. But still SAME feelings about it.
I care about Tremulous future so i noticing weird moments in 1.2 version. And not only me noticed that camera after death just making creazy shit (and camera not improving gameplay/game itself in our case).
I'm glad that you are trying to advertise 1.2 and invite people to play it more, so that they feel the game. But so far in the game have such weird glitches, most people will play as I - no more than an hour (although for different reasons than I did, but still). With such an attitude to the players not be surprised if next year everyone will forget about the 1.2 and go to other games. I do not want this to happen, but this 1.2 tremulous should focus on players and not on the preferences of a small group of people.
2Kiwi: You did not note this point, but many players noted. Thats why I talking about switch in menu or variable to turn this off. Im not talking about personal like/dislike of 1.2 (but Meisseli seems again began his song "to play in 1.2 longer and you put up with everything")
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Nice try, Meiss. English is not my native language and I'm aware of my shortfalls. Perhaps it's my meaning your not understanding? So it would seem from what you've quoted. I've played the last 1.2 version and this is the one to which I refer. My feelings are unchanged regardless.
I care about the future of Tremulous and I notice worrisome aspects in this latest installment. I'm not the only one to have stated displeasure toward this crazy camera shit. It's but one unnecessary flaw in the '1.2' release.
I'm glad that you are trying to advertise 1.2 and invite people to play it more, so that they can experience the new version of the game. Sadly, so far I've seen so many appauling aspects that I have no trouble seeing why many would not play the version for more than an hour. If not for my personal complaints, then quite possibly for other changes that were made against community wishes. I would go so far as to say this could put an end to any hopes of a future revival of interest in tremulous. I do not want this to happen, but it will if devs continue to pander to a select few's wishes and not to the greater community.
My dear fellow Kiwi.
What I am in favor of is the capability to change the deathcam style via a setting IF YOU SO WISH. This was noted by others in this thread.
It would seem Meisseli's philosophy would be "Put up and shut up" when it comes to anything that could be improved upon.
Fix'd grammar, not meaning.
EDIT: As a personal addendum for Meisseli, don't think that I'm not aware of the effect you're talking about. I completely agree that people will be more inclined to play what they're used to rather than put the modicum of effort required into learning something new. I'm well aware. I could be guilty of that myself...to an extent.
What I want you to understand is that these changes you suggest we adjust to are unnecessary by all standards other than balance and change aspects we loved about the game. An example would be the marauder which has become some sort of more bouncy, less speedy electro-spammer when what it was was so much more fun when mastered. The basilisk has been dummed down too. I tried to love the new game but I just ended up missing the way those classes used to be.
And for what? Balance just doesn't matter if the game isn't fun. If you want balance take turns playing humans/aliens like we've always done. Hell, some of the best games I've had were where my team was at a huge disadvantage but won anyway.
So, I think I'm justified in thinking that players need more reason to switch over. If you're going to change things people loved, it's important to give them something in return. What I've tried just takes more than it gives.
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I've never noticed the death cam either, but seriously, why is this a problem? I don't know about you, but I play a game for gameplay. Even, or should I say especially, ASCII graphics can be fun. Furthermore, this thread is about unTrem. What is the gameplay reason to base a project on 1.1 rather than 1.2. Or what are the gameplay aspects of unTrem, and why will they be fun?
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So, both thoroughly necro'd and derailed, my god we're efficient!
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I've never noticed the death cam either, but seriously, why is this a problem? I don't know about you, but I play a game for gameplay.
Im playing games for gameplay too (even still playing ADOM if you talking about ASCII =] ), but i cant enjoy game with non-gameplay annoying moments i cant even disable. I very like bicycle trips, but enjoy thse trips with broken tires? No, thanx!
So many talks about Trem learning curve on forum here. But if there are disputed issues, it is unlikely that players will linger in the game long enough to understand all its depth and appeal. A rough example. If you tell a man: "Here's a bucket of shit, look inside, there you will find in the depths of something interesting." most people are unlikely to do this for a long time. Even if hypothetically in the bottom of the bucket is a diamond. =(
UPD: I know that my attempts to discuss the 1.2 might look ugly. And i know about my ugly broken english language. But i wish long live to Trem, so I would prefer to see in 1.2 fix current errors (grates glitch,skybox _down_ bug,'blowing' eggs when no enough space,'stuck' respawn not as a dretch when no enough space,etc), rather than the emergence of new glitches.
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I've never noticed the death cam either, but seriously, why is this a problem? I don't know about you, but I play a game for gameplay.
If you tell a man: "Here's a bucket of shit, look inside, there you will find in the depths of something interesting." most people are unlikely to do this for a long time. Even if hypothetically in the bottom of the bucket is a diamond.
Leave aside the jokes, but this is an absolutely beneficent example, sir. I tip my hat to you.
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Anybody who would play Tremulous for 30 minutes with sceptical attitude (or even probably without one) wouldn't run it again. Regardless the version. The fact that you played 1.1 for "YEASRS" makes it even worse, because you are used to it's gameplay, you have the reference point, while new player doesn't, it's all new for him.
I also can't really believe that something as trivial as death cam makes GPP unplayable for you. Hell I didn't even noticed any problems with it yet (even wanted to check it out just for you, but my drivers are broken and I'm too lazy to fix it).
There are quite a few people here like you, who used to have really bad opinion about Planned Dev Games and GPP. They decided to give it a try and surprisingly they liked it. As they said, the changes look weird in theory, when you read about them at forums, but in practice they do make sense when you get used. IIRC one of them is Whales, I guess Dracone also liked GPP as I see him in-game occasionally (not sure if he was bashing it before).
Anyway I suggest you to do the same. Play GPP instead of 1.1 for a week let yourself get used to the changes even if it means that you gonna suck at the beginning.
You have right to dislike 1.2 gameplay, but not after 30 minutes of playing it.
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Same opinion as Meisseli, lol.
Two weeks ago I bring new player to trem. He played in 1.2 and noticed some things he dont like (death cam too). Its not a question of 'how much you playing'. Right now im waiting for 1.2 release and may be devs gonna change some things. Right now i dont see point broke my eyes on it.
Most peoples just dont see any point playing game with moments they dont like. And you cant force them play more. And once more - its not question of 1.2 gameplay or something, lol. I and many other peoples just dont like how 1.2 version look like. I played it and im not suck (i never count myself as pro, but in any case i still show good game).
PS Your opinion based on peoples who not rarely here. But community here not so huge, and it not growing up. Guess why? Seems not. =\
PPS And even some part of current community prefer 1.1 due to various reasons.
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What I want you to understand is that these changes you suggest we adjust to are unnecessary by all standards other than balance and change aspects we loved about the game. An example would be the marauder which has become some sort of more bouncy, less speedy electro-spammer when what it was was so much more fun when mastered. The basilisk has been dummed down too. I tried to love the new game but I just ended up missing the way those classes used to be.
And for what? Balance just doesn't matter if the game isn't fun. If you want balance take turns playing humans/aliens like we've always done. Hell, some of the best games I've had were where my team was at a huge disadvantage but won anyway.
So, I think I'm justified in thinking that players need more reason to switch over. If you're going to change things people loved, it's important to give them something in return. What I've tried just takes more than it gives.
And what I want you to understand that it's not about balance. Let's try it again:
It's not about balancing or graphics. It's about those gameplay improvements that really make it a funner version. Lesser camping, working forward building, to be able to finish games pre-S3. Still got the nice fast gameplay too, and scrims are even more fun!
This is what I'm on about. GPP makes the gameplay a lot more fun than it was even though it might seem with all the nostalgia that 1.1 was a perfect game. In fact it was far from it. Your example of the marauder in the new version is hardly "less speedy" (unless you don't know how to strafejump) or "electro spammer" (you cannot kill any even mildly good human with only zap). Instead, the useless alternative firemode of 1.1 was made actually useful!
@CATAHA: No "trolling attempt". I know English is not your native language and was just trying to say you interpreted what I was saying wrong probably due to it.
Still my point stands. 30 minutes is not enough for you to get hang of driving a new car model even if you've driven one before. Play it - and then give feedback about what you like/don't like. Saying "I won't play it because it has changed" makes you just a moron that will be disregarded.
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I changed 3 cars already and it takes not more than 10-15 min to be good with new. =D But now we've come to a consensus - i giving feedback about 1.2 trem. I dont like that stupid cam 'cauz its hurting my eyes (especially after full work day). =)
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I changed 3 cars already and it takes not more than 10-15 min to be good with new. =D But now we've come to a consensus - i giving feedback about 1.2 trem. I dont like that stupid cam 'cauz its hurting my eyes (especially after full work day). =)
Bad analogues can stay bad analogues.
However the fact that your stats page (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1p6/player_details.php?player_id=10856) doesn't have any marauder, dragoon or tyrant kills leads to believe you didn't even try them. You got two kills as a dretch and two as a basilisk, you think that was extensive testing to see what aliens are made of in the new version?
Humans? A whopping 13 kills! I'm sure the two turrets you built helped you understand the new building system that allows for awesome strategic forward building!
Truly, it seems the death cam is really the only thing you can even comment on. Begone.
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My game style - evade, not rude 'meat rush' Usually i bleed, not 'kill till death'. But if you want - yea, i suck at 1.2 and i hopeless noob. But i cant become better due to game glithes hurting me. =[
We wil ltalk about all facts after 1.2 release, ok? Im a bit tired saying about possible 'bugs' and hear in response 'play more'. =\
PS You dont need 1.2 to build awesome forward bases, lol. Seriously. Even in 'worse 1.1' you can easily build outposts.
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My game style - evade, not rude 'meat rush' Usually i bleed, not 'kill till death'. But if you want - yea, i suck at 1.2 and i hopeless noob. But i cant become better due to game glithes hurting me. =[
We wil ltalk about all facts after 1.2 release, ok? Im a bit tired saying about possible 'bugs' and hear in response 'play more'. =\
PS You dont need 1.2 to build awesome forward bases, lol. Seriously. Even in 'worse 1.1' you can easily build outposts.
I couldn't care less about you sucking or not but you shouting here so hard how 1.2 sucks without even playing a damn full game of it...
Nux, I think what you mean by the mara slowness is some very early Phase 1 or 2 version from ages ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has been fixed since long time. As I said, the first phases were utterly horrible. Play the most recent ones, they're very enjoyable.
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Oh cmon. Dont you read my posts? Lolly. I just noticed some moments that suck. Im not saying 1.2 suck totally, it targeted on some players part and have own features. Im not gonna strongly decide suck it or not before release. All other opinions was with note 'me personally'. So better care about help to devs make 1.2 release faster released and more attractive game. =]
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I couldn't care less about you sucking or not but you shouting here so hard how 1.2 sucks without even playing a damn full game of it...
Nux, I think what you mean by the mara slowness is some very early Phase 1 or 2 version from ages ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has been fixed since long time.
I'm fairly sure that's the case, and why did it get fixed, because people play-testing the thing asked the devs to look into the reasons for it feeling so slow, same reason the pulse rifle bullets are no longer the same diameter as luciballs. This kind of feedback isn't going to come up for other issues if people flatly refuse to play the bloody thing. What's wrong with you people, i thought development versions were trendy thesedays, or must they bear the label "beta" for that?
Oh cmon. Dont you read my posts?
At this stage i try not to, you rarely contribute anything remotely useful but have a compulsion to post regardless.
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Ok, i will fall back to mapping section. Only hope 1.2 attract players. Long live trem!
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The first and primary goal of the DretchStorm project right now is to make all the mods necessary to get tremulous working on xreal ... not in compat mode, but rather with all features turned on. This more or less means a whole new game, at least visually. So many assets must be re-made or changed: maps, all models, large majority of textures, sound?, effects, etc... After the first goal is complete (1 year, 10 years?) then we'll add our own game play changes.
Why 1.1? We believe that there wasnt much wrong with 1.1 from a game play standpoint. Even with so-called overpowered dretches, tyrants and goons and all- that's the Trem that hooked us. We will backport fixes from 1.2 but for the most part the game will be based on 1.1-ish. Also 1.2 is a moving target and our time is limited (we have jobs, wives, etc). When 1.2 becomes the official release then we'll backport more if needed.
Could you play DretchStorm with mainstream Tremulous servers? I hope so, but I can't say for sure right now (assume NO).
Some of the main changes planned (more or less)... in the future:
- Where mainstream Tremulous appeals to the majority hardware thanks to ioquake3, by moving to xreal we are targeting newish hardware (6200FX or better?) as the base.
- We intend to have a darker and violent take on the theme, an R-rating. We'll try to bring dismemberment thanks to new skeletal models. Many of us want ragdolls so I expect we'll add support for Bullet or ODE.
- Our take on aliens is more arachnid-based and we will build on that. Several levels of "growth" per class might be possible. Abnormal growth is not out of question. Physical attributes of known arachnids will be exaggerated and incorporated into our aliens.
- Built-in XP stats ... old-school DretchStorm server users enjoyed these for years, now they will be part of the game. Your profiles will be permanently stored in the official servers.
- Customization will be encouraged... we intend on adding new weapons and character models that will feed from a central repository. Some will need XP points to be used in game (think TF2). Artists will need to follow simple guidelines to get their stuff added.
- Official central repository for maps and stats.
- New buildables, weapons, situations.
- The hovel will return as burrow-type alien structure -kinda like a teleport- (in ours) the aliens are arachnids- why not?.
- NO MORE BOOSTER ... aliens will need to feed to replenish health. Alien "acids" and regurgitation will play an important part in alien defenses and attack.
- Grangers will not only build the base but also help fellow aliens-A medic of sort. "Larger Tyrants" -FLOBN- will help the infantry by spawning players during battle.
- Humans will gain a medic, an engineer, and a new girl soldier. (all meshes mostly done)
- Sorry, no flying aliens are planned ... but alien webs (+hook) are on the table.
- Jetpacks go in the way of jumppacks ... if jp stays, they will be fuel-limited and crippled significantly compared to 1.1 jp.
- Rocket and grenade arms will play important part in human weapons and defenses.
- Different weapons/gear will affect the mobility of humans-so you wont be able to run 30mph with a chaingun behind a dretch, for example.
- Human classes will be limited to their own class weapons ... soldier, medic, engineer, heavy/demo ... will have their own weapon class, but some will overlap.
- etc...
Those of you that know me and my mods (RAMPAGE and sort) know that I dont believe in character balance-it's an illusion (keep reading). For example, if you are unarmed in the jungle and a lion jumps you... where's the balance? now replace lion with tyrant. How about if i carry a rocket launcher and a lion jumps me... where's the balance then? both cases there is none. IMHO (character) balance is what causes deadlock/camping, i prefer a deterministic approach. ie., I can step on a scorpion and kill it, but if i'm laying down and dont see/hear the scorpion come, it can sting me on the jugular and kill me. let the situation dictate the result, not calculated events. we'll explore this type of approach in our game. We'll give both aliens and humans the best possible chances.
If you have ideas that you think we should explore, please join us in #dretchstorm on irc.freenode.net ... let's not hijack trem.net forums for this. We have no forums of our own yet but our website will be at http://dretchstorm.com
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For example, if you are unarmed in the jungle and a lion jumps you... where's the balance? now replace lion with tyrant. How about if i carry a rocket launcher and a lion jumps me... where's the balance then?
Well yeah, you either fumble around with the rocket launcher for long enough that the lion's playing a tune on your windpipe, or you successfully fire the thing and either miss completely or blow yourself up along with the lion. But worry not, lions, as a rule, don't live in jungles, so you're safe for the most part, unless you happen to be a clumsy, rocket launcher carrying, half-wit.
So, how close are you to getting together the resources required to pull off your grand plans?
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Nux, I think what you mean by the mara slowness is some very early Phase 1 or 2 version from ages ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has been fixed since long time. As I said, the first phases were utterly horrible. Play the most recent ones, they're very enjoyable.
You might be right there. It's true I haven't tried it recently, and I guess I was just disillusioned to the prospect of the devs making changes I agreed with / enjoyed after trying and failing to like their changes for as long as I did.
I'll give the new stuff try a ASAP.
In other news, it's good to see the thread has got back on track despite our best efforts!
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The mara is faster than in 1.1 because they simply increased it's speed.
While you still gain speed from wall jumping it's not as important as in 1.1 since you're fast anyway.
I preferred the old mara as it was more challenging to be fast and you could do a lot more advanced jumps that required pretty good timing.
Now you basically hold space and forward and it does whatever you want automatically.
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Could a mod split this topic?
There's some good discussion going on here, but it's dreadfully off-topic.
Anyway, about the mara: After some adjusting, I like the new mara style more.
The walljump may not seem as interesting, but it is much more utilitarian and has its own uses.
The biggest improvement I see with the mara is that it has become the speed machine it was intended to be, not the (usually) easy target offered by the 1.1 mara.
Still, if you really like the old walljump style, there are ways to make the new one behave just like the old one.
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ghostshell, that list looks pretty ambitious. Moreso, it strikes me that what you actually want to do is make an entirely new game.
No offense, but what strikes me the most is a lot of talk and nothing to show for it. It just gives me the impression you don't understand how hard it is to do these things.
My advice is to get to work now because you'll be hitting obstacles from the get go. As soon as you hit the first obstacle, explain it here and then maybe we can make some progress.
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Could a mod split this topic?
If the OP wants.
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How about the a camera simply looks down on the players corpse from 10 meters of the ground? Something like at 0:43 in this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJM0neZ4-bs&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_828236
except no looking up at the end
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Most places that would have the roof in the way.
IMO it should just be a toggle. Or maybe have a setting for the max speed that the camera can rotate.
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Ghostshell it would be great to get trem to xreal with current assets then we could at least have a better looking current trem, well when it's ported and people add new shaders.
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Ghostshell it would be great to get trem to xreal with current assets then we could at least have a better looking current trem, well when it's ported and people add new shaders.
xreal uses doom3-ish material files, so all trem's shaders must be redone. for maps we are using different tools (like q3tod3) to help w this. for better performance we also need to redo all trem's particle effects-with a mix of lua scripts.
we are still getting all issues together and there's plenty that is only written down on paper (the stuff from trees). but here's a short update:
- currently trem 1.1 is "working" as standalone on linux. most ui isnt working yet.
- i'm merging with ET-Xreal and their renderer supports FBO md3 models so we could use the stock models-but we intend to move to md5 models progressively.
- we already have some "new" character meshes done but they arent rigged/animated yet.
- a team member is helping the 1.2 crew with sounds-while doing our new sounds too. his rendition of the trem title theme which he made for dretchstorm (i think) will be used in 1.2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8823488/heartbeat1.mp3 (no more excuses for 1.2 :P)
- we only have the .map of tremor and arachnid2 so we are working on those maps. if anyone knows about other map sources (for trem's standard maps) please post them so we can add them to our queue.
- now we are aiming for "NC-17" rating for violence and language. this is not your mom's trem :)
if you want to be part of the team or just pitch your ideas, drop by #gameboom on irc.freenode.net
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ATCS HD includes the .map file in Pk3. That would probably be better than the default ATCS for Xreal.
http://downloads.mercenariesguild.net/maps/map-atcshd-gpp.pk3 (http://downloads.mercenariesguild.net/maps/map-atcshd-gpp.pk3)
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Shaders are far from being an issue.
If we can plug channels (spec, diffuse, NOR, etc) into a basic shader we can get most of them back and better than before.
I strongly suggest getting a 1.2 port then going for your mods/game-play improvements as it would really be a nice contribution to Tremulous.
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Last post on this subject. From this point please use the following links, I won't discuss Dretchstorm here.
Official website (WIP) - http://dretchstorm.com
Updates - http://boomz.me/group/dretchstorm
Discussion (open forum) - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/dretchstorm
I'm preparing a guide to convert Tremulous maps to Dretchstorm.
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/me loves javascript candy
PS. last link is broken.
eDIT: oops, sry for offtopic
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Nux, I think what you mean by the mara slowness is some very early Phase 1 or 2 version from ages ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has been fixed since long time. As I said, the first phases were utterly horrible. Play the most recent ones, they're very enjoyable.
You might be right there. It's true I haven't tried it recently, and I guess I was just disillusioned to the prospect of the devs making changes I agreed with / enjoyed after trying and failing to like their changes for as long as I did.
I'll give the new stuff try a ASAP.
In other news, it's good to see the thread has got back on track despite our best efforts!
Well it's five weeks since I made that post and I've been playing GPP exclusively throughout that time. I adjusted to it and have been getting top score frequently (if that's important to you). I got the impression that this a version of tremulous I could live with and enjoyed the player-base that haunts it.
A few minutes ago I tried 1.1 for the first time since 5 weeks ago.
I loved it. Absolutely loved it. It felt like a huge weight had been lifted (as they say). I felt free! I suppose I'll never know if it's just that I'm biased to the trem I've played for years. I just know that with all the delays they've added to actions in GPP, they've have ruined the fun in a way that going back to 1.1 has truly made me appreciate.
I really want to be where the good players are, but I have to tell you I'm really feeling like flipping GPP off right now.
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I loved it. Absolutely loved it. It felt like a huge weight had been lifted (as they say). I felt free! I suppose I'll never know if it's just that I'm biased to the trem I've played for years. I just know that with all the delays they've added to actions in GPP, they've have ruined the fun in a way that going back to 1.1 has truly made me appreciate.
I have those exact same feelings too.
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8823488/shots/dstorm-20110411-161647-000.jpg
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8823488/shots/dstorm-20110411-161647-000.jpg
Could you talk us through the changes?
(http://i.imgur.com/C40cl.jpg)
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Brilliant post ghostshell, it was quite descriptive.
However, the linked image doesn't show any difference between tremulous and dretchstorm.
Or... is that dretchstorm running in tremulous compatibility mode?
(I do not think you just stopped here to rant your project. Because you'd post something cool if that was the case)
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...more realistic jetpack that acts more realistically like from Tribes Vengeance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdTqQwlskA).
Awe shit, TRIBES!
...Sir, you just brought back so many memories.
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...more realistic jetpack that acts more realistically like from Tribes Vengeance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdTqQwlskA).
Awe shit, TRIBES!
...Sir, you just brought back so many memories.
bad ones. vengeance was not tribes.
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Huh? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribes:_Vengeance)
I liked the original Tribes and T:V. probably partial to the original though. :3
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Huh? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribes:_Vengeance)
I liked the original Tribes and T:V. probably partial to the original though. :3
i'm no fan of the unreal engine. planetside was more like tribes to me than vengeance was. but all this is side talk, i'll shut up now.
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aogomgz, just played Vengeance. <3 it.
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8823488/shots/dstorm-20110411-161647-000.jpg
Could you talk us through the changes?
It's arachnid on xreal
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Well I just checked your website out and it looks pretty cool...
I might even help with your project...
(I am an modeler and animator and I do video graphics too so if your looking for any of those please do contact me... )
So now what is the story of this project again?
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(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8823488/shots/dstorm-20110427-091904-000.png)
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Good to see normals. Now if you can just turn down the contrast and make it a little more colourful, it'll look nice!
Also, it calls attention to some bad light placement. The map itself might need editting to properly use the lighting effects being implemented.
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Lighting can kill the best scene, or make the worst scene decent.