Tremulous Forum
Community => Servers => Topic started by: lucifer666s8n on April 13, 2010, 11:49:16 pm
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Of all the Tremulous servers... Many of witch are decent. Why do so many people seem to be against the most popular Server? X
After all, it is the most popular... Has a great list of admins, works hard at keeping the gameplay fun...And is always #1 or #2 on gametracker.... ;D ;D http://www.gametracker.com/search/q3/ (http://www.gametracker.com/search/q3/)
How is that a bad thing?
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Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.
And it's only popular because it's at the top of the list. Popularity and list position are basically the same thing.
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Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.
Its not Tremulous? How do you figure that one out?
And it's only popular because it's at the top of the list. Popularity and list position are basically the same thing.
List position changes... I have seen it on top, almost 12 down.... Thats not a reason... If so then why aren't ones that are at the top of the server list at times, AA, for example, the most popular?
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X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top. And it's gameplay is so different that I don't consider it Tremulous. It's like comparing pushcannon to nexus6. AFAIK (not saying I actually know much about it) any changes there are made because someone thinks they are cool, not because of how it affects the rest of the gameplay. Contrary to what many think, throwing lots of things together doesn't make a good game. It makes a pile of rubble.
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X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top. And it's gameplay is so different that I don't consider it Tremulous. It's like comparing pushcannon to nexus6. AFAIK (not saying I actually know much about it) any changes there are made because someone thinks they are cool, not because of how it affects the rest of the gameplay. Contrary to what many think, throwing lots of things together doesn't make a good game. It makes a pile of rubble.
Abusing the way it sorts servers? Oh come on... That is not even close. You think they abuse it... Hmm, well I can tell you they dont. After all, other servers are listed above them.... Or has no one ever bothered to look and see?
You are talking about changes etc... Every server has a different way of doing things, but yet they are not attacked as heavily as X Servers... Sounds more like jealousy and not actual issues..
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I checked, it does abuse the default list sorting (which is by name), and I have to admit the changes are ~10x worse then I thought. Also, from my experience most that say they have come from X have no clue how to play actual Trem and often ragequit. I think that is quite a good way to measure how similar it is.
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Abusing the way it sorts servers? Oh come on... That is not even close. You think they abuse it... Hmm, well I can tell you they dont. After all, other servers are listed above them.... Or has no one ever bothered to look and see?
By the same reasoning, you wouldn't be cheating if everyone else cheated better than you.
"It wasn't really murder since there are so many more prolific serial killers."
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Of all the Tremulous servers... Many of witch are decent. Why do so many people seem to be against the most popular Server? X
Because it sucks.
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Players coming off from the X server also often find it hard to kill anyone on a normal server, so they are forced to return to the X server. A black hole effect if you will...
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On the other hand, people from regular servers don't have much trouble going to X, though people used to vanillia tremulous are likely to find it...well...Anyways the communities seem to be rather separated. X might as well be a complete fork of actual tremulous, a fork that prevents newbies from playing the game that I have come to know and love.
It further alienates the rest of the community by pretending to be something its not. All of its mod files are placed in the base folder, something which should be reserved for, you guessed it, the game's base files. This is both untidy and not particularly honest.
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Players coming off from the X server also often find it hard to kill anyone on a normal server, so they are forced to return to the X server. A black hole effect if you will...
I must be different than them I guess, I have no trouble switching back and forth, and several of the people I know on X like to play on other less modded servers...
On the other hand, people from regular servers don't have much trouble going to X, though people used to vanillia tremulous are likely to find it...well...Anyways the communities seem to be rather separated. X might as well be a complete fork of actual tremulous, a fork that prevents newbies from playing the game that I have come to know and love.
It further alienates the rest of the community by pretending to be something its not. All of its mod files are placed in the base folder, something which should be reserved for, you guessed it, the game's base files. This is both untidy and not particularly honest.
Ok.... I give you the fact that the communities are seperated.... BUT, As far as its server file operation... Just how do you know where they stick their mod files? Have you been involved in setting up the server? Do you have SSH access? Are you a ranking admin at XserverX? If so then perhaps you should drop the alias and help the server that more people play than any other.... Instead of bashing it to try and make the other, less fortunate servers feel better.
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X has nothing in common with trem gameplay wise, but it acts like it's vanilla trem, that's the main reason people hate it.
And I'd say he knows where the mod files got put because, I don't know, he actually looked where they got put on his machine?
Too be honest, I think X should be forced to make it blatantly clear to all the newbies that x server gameplay is not at all representitive of real trem gameplay else be removed from the master list.
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X has nothing in common with trem gameplay wise, but it acts like it's vanilla trem, that's the main reason people hate it.
And I'd say he knows where the mod files got put because, I don't know, he actually looked where they got put on his machine?
Too be honest, I think X should be forced to make it blatantly clear to all the newbies that x server gameplay is not at all representitive of real trem gameplay else be removed from the master list.
Ok, and is Wonderland gonna be forced to do the same? What about ubp? I say it is representative of Trem in the fact that it is modified. WOW Trem is open source, and that is a spirit of its own, you force everyone to be carbon copies of your boring servers, (On which I can play as well on as on X) then you lose the whole point of the open source community... You put X off of the master list and all you will do is force people to have to deal with your elitist attitudes... And that will drive more people away than X ever would have... X saves trem to the point that it is the most popular Quake 3 server most of the time...Period...
You make everyone deal with people like attack X all the time and trem will die alot faster than you think... Nobody likes elitists..
As far as mod files in the base folder.... Um, that is where they are supposed to go... Unless you dont want them to work... After all, the client doesnt give a very reliable way to set mods otherwise... The only file from X that does anything is their QVM and that is on the server.... Um, next.....
So far the only things you have given as far as why you all see Server X as an enemy is conjecture and bias... Not anything other than, 'they cheat' or 'they mod' or 'they take players' and yet a noob on your server is chased away by the SO called pros....
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I must be different than them I guess, I have no trouble switching back and forth, and several of the people I know on X like to play on other less modded servers...(On which I can play as well on as on X)
Hmmm...If you really can play half-decently on both (idk if you're skilled atm) you may have a point. Question: Explain the usage of adv. granger spit and blasters on both X and vanilla trem. I have not problem with X being different, I have a problem with a server as severely modded as X representing tremulous. If X moved its server to 1.2 where there are 'official servers' then I wouldn't have a problem.Ok, and is Wonderland gonna be forced to do the same? What about ubp?
UBP may be a mod, but it advertises what makes it different from its title. Furthermore, a perfectly normal vanilla server can set its bp for each team to 999 and have *almost* the same effect. I refuse to play on UBP servers for an extended period of time but that's another topic. Newbie builders may try to use tactics from ubp on other servers, but its not worse than normal newbie behavior, unlike X. Don't know about wonderland.Nobody likes elitists..
Its hardly elitist to want one mod of trem separated from vanilla trem, ie. "X sucks because its not trem and says it is", nor is it elitist to say "X sucks because it has bad gameplay", that's just stating an opinion based on one's personal beliefs. To say "X sucks because its not pure trem" may be elitist, but I think more often someone who says that is trying to say the former.As far as mod files in the base folder.... Um, that is where they are supposed to go... Unless you dont want them to work... After all, the client doesnt give a very reliable way to set mods otherwise...
erm...*cough*The only file from X that does anything is their QVM and that is on the server
That is true, but it means you cannot have a separate set of binds for vanilla tremulous and X server, this is a problem for people who build their binds based on tactical combinations, or want "itemtoggle blaster" set to the right mouse button instead of "itemact medkit". I like autoexec.cfg thank you very much.So far the only things you have given as far as why you all see Server X as an enemy is conjecture and bias... Not anything other than, 'they cheat'
Which is true, AA has also gotten some flack for that.or 'they mod'
That they mod is fine, its that they mod *improperly*or 'they take players'
That they take players is fine, the problem is that they confuse players as to the nature of tremulous.
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I sincerely greet you with a hearty go fuck yourself.
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That was just MY opinion, not like it would ever happen.
And like everyone else has said, it's only popular because it exploits hoe the vanilla client lists the servers, and hardly anyone who starts playing there can play anywhere else, so they stay.
And at least ubp doesn't change everything, just there is unlimited build points for more crazy bases, and they don't pretend to be something they're not.
I personally don't find x to be all that fun. It's an ok distraction for a round or two, but it's got nothing on real trem gameplay.
Why are you so convinced that X can do no wrong?
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most people will sort by ping so i dont really believe that adding box chars to get on top of list is valid but meh seems like alot of server owners disagree since like every server does that.
they would only need to not use base if they change client files(like more game assets and cgame/ui changes etc) altho i dont agree with their server changes they are not doing anything wrong
this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhHALkQXiE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhHALkQXiE) reminds me of their playerbase prob a good thing they are on x server
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As far as mod files in the base folder.... Um, that is where they are supposed to go... Unless you dont want them to work... After all, the client doesnt give a very reliable way to set mods otherwise...
erm...*cough*
I must have misunderstood what you meant by the mod files... I apologize... ;)
To say "X sucks because its not pure trem" may be elitist, but I think more often someone who says that is trying to say the former
Well maybe then people should say the former...
To say "X sucks because its not pure trem" may be elitist, but I think more often someone who says that is trying to say the former
How can you mod improperly? Isnt the point of a mod to change the gameplay and or look and fell of the game?
That they take players is fine, the problem is that they confuse players as to the nature of tremulous.
Well, on the topic of confusing players, I started out on a different server than X.... I tried X and started to get into it, and low and behold I liked it.
That was just MY opinion, not like it would ever happen.
And like everyone else has said, it's only popular because it exploits how the vanilla client lists the servers, and hardly anyone who starts playing there can play anywhere else, so they stay.
And at least ubp doesn't change everything, just there is unlimited build points for more crazy bases, and they don't pretend to be something they're not.
I personally don't find x to be all that fun. It's an ok distraction for a round or two, but it's got nothing on real trem gameplay.
Why are you so convinced that X can do no wrong?
First of all, Ill say it again, I play on any server I choose I just prefer to use X... Simple as that.
Second, X doesnt claim to be vanilla trem... Obviously...
Third, I never said X can do no wrong, I dont agree with everything the owner/devs do, but coming on Trem.net and flaming them every time I get the chance is not going to do anything. I work with them to help make it better...
This is a dog eat dog industry.... The more inters\esting the game...The more players... After all, we must be doing something people like... The close community, the friendly rivalries, all show how successful we are. Im sure all of you have a favorite server, and If I went to the page where your admins posted their information and announced their server information etc... and attacked them the way you guys attacked Spec and the most recent person, Manbearpig, you would all be jumping at the opportunity to slash my jugular... As displayed in the 'go fuck yourself comment'
I have nothing against any of ya'll... We all want the same thing.. To keep Tremulous alive and kicking... Outlive its competition... BUT you must admit that it is servers like X that have kept trem alive.. Is it everyone's cup o' tea? Hell no... But it is here for those who use it... And at rankings of 1-4 we beat all of yours...
With the remark of 1.2... I have to say, are you kidding me? As many people as dislike that mess of a fail, you want the most popular server in Trem to use it....O wait, of course you do... As it would either kill us or boost 1.2's popularity... HAHA very funny guys..
On the video you posted slacker...Hilarious... But not characterized completely by X... Sure we have noobs...All servers have some noobs...But at least they have fun...
Thanks for pointing out the truth...You may not care for our changes BUT you know we are doing nothing wrong... Finally a person with common sense...KUDOS
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This is a dog eat dog industry....
Outliving its competition...
Explain.
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How can you mod improperly? Isnt the point of a mod to change the gameplay and or look and fell of the game?
Oh yes, but there are some formalities expected as well. First, for a number of reasons, it should have a name: See:http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=3809.0 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=3809.0). An explanation in-game (either in the motd or with !info or whatever) is also very useful.I'm sure all of you have a favorite server, and If I went to the page where your admins posted their information and announced their server information etc... and attacked them the way you guys attacked Spec and the most recent person, Manbearpig, you would all be jumping at the opportunity to slash my jugular... As displayed in the 'go fuck yourself comment'
Perhaps, though I'm unfamiliar with the x-server forums, but this is the tremulous forums, and I believe most of the hostile comments have been made in passing. "noobs from X server" (in various forms) I believe is a common saying around here. I always wonder if battlegranging is just a noob thing or if its widespread practice originates at that server.I have nothing against any of ya'll, we all want the same thing, to keep Tremulous alive and kicking... BUT you must admit that it is servers like X that have kept trem alive.. Is it everyone's cup o' tea? Hell no... But it is here for those who use it... And at rankings of 1-4 we beat all of yours...
Well, part of the point of the argument is to say that X is not really tremulous. I would say rather that AA, dretchstorm, and the 1.2 development servers have kept tremulous alive, among others (though I admit there is some irony in putting AA beside dretchstorm and 1.2).With the remark of 1.2... I have to say, are you kidding me? [Despite] many people [disliking] that mess of fail, you want the most popular server in Trem to use it....
Erm, If you are referring to X server, no. I want X server to simply comply with the formalities befitting a server of its position.
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and I believe most of the hostile comments have been made in passing.
After all the logical things you have said... I call bullshit so to speak...http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9996.0 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9996.0)
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12769.0 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12769.0)
Now here is how much people feel they must attack X...
As far as the explainations about competition, I typoed outlive into outliving, and as far as the dog eat dog industry... People pay for these servers... If they are unpopular the money is wasted... Makes sense doesnt it?
Oh yes, but there are some formalities expected as well. First, for a number of reasons, it should have a name: See:http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=3809.0. An explanation in-game (either in the motd or with !info or whatever) is also very useful.
I think that is something with a good amount of sense to it... I have to admit that part..
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After all, we must be doing something people like...
I have nothing against any of ya'll... We all want the same thing.. To keep Tremulous alive and kicking... Outlive its competition... BUT you must admit that it is servers like X that have kept trem alive.. Is it everyone's cup o' tea? Hell no... But it is here for those who use it... And at rankings of 1-4 we beat all of yours...
With the remark of 1.2... I have to say, are you kidding me? As many people as dislike that mess of a fail, you want the most popular server in Trem to use it....O wait, of course you do... As it would either kill us or boost 1.2's popularity... HAHA very funny guys..
Yes, newbies like clicking on the first server in list before resorting it. And then they are stuck on your server because they can't get a single kill on other servers. You may be different because you started out on other servers. But some only know X gameplay.
Bullshit about X keeping Trem alive. Newbies may go there and stay, but if I picked up trem and went there first, I'd quit in 10 minutes. There are 0 skills and 0 tactics what so ever required there. It's just people jumping around and shooting mostly randomly.
And about it being more popular: I challenge X to survive long term after removing the boxes from it's name. And 1.2 would kill X cuz it won't be on top of the list anymore, and with no new players, it will slowly die out. This has nothing to do with 1.2 killing X because of gameplay, as they can just mod it to exactly what it currently is.
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If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?
And 1.2 would kill X cuz it won't be on top of the list anymore, and with no new players, it will slowly die out. This has nothing to do with 1.2 killing X because of gameplay, as they can just mod it to exactly what it currently is.
If I recall correctly, it's been stated that they don't plan to move to 1.2 anytime soon, "unfortunately".
And also
"After all the logical things YOU have said... I call bullshit so to speak..."
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And all that could've been avoided with a simple 1.1.1.
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Why people here generally don't like X:
Users such as yourself. NO OFFENSE, THOUGH.
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After all the logical things you have said... I call bullshit so to speak...http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9996.0
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12769.0
I see no one decided to look at this and see the common theme...
but if I picked up trem and went there first, I'd quit in 10 minutes.
Your opinion is biased.... You dont like it so you are not objective...
If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?
You guys are making me laugh.... I have seen X move up and down the list... Its not always on top, its sometimes WAY down on the list.... How many times do I have to say that... And I dont sort by PING...
Users such as yourself.
Ok,that makes total sense... If someone doesnt like GPP, doesnt worship the ground Vanilla shits on, etc then you want them to stay on X... Ok thats fine... We will keep taking the people who YOU chase away and stay the most popular server in Trem... Your claims as to the only reason we are popular is server listings is bs, it shows your disdain for New players and your opinion that they are all stupid... The average gamer that is going to go out and search for open source games is going to find Trem but its gonna be this site, and this site pushes the idiotic 1.2... That aside, It is no wonder people leave your servers for ours, yes your gameplay may be more traditional Trem... BUT at least we dont put people down for being new.
New people are welcome at X, they should be welcome on your servers... But by the fact that they 'just click on the first server in the list' is the biggest load of shit...
We shall see someday how well I am treated when I venture out to your servers... I can almost say for certain you will not be decent and welcoming me.. Which will prove my whole point.
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We shall see someday how well I am treated when I venture out to your servers...
So... you have never been to a 1.2 server yet you claim that it sucks?
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After all, we must be doing something people like...
I have nothing against any of ya'll... We all want the same thing.. To keep Tremulous alive and kicking... Outlive its competition... BUT you must admit that it is servers like X that have kept trem alive.. Is it everyone's cup o' tea? Hell no... But it is here for those who use it... And at rankings of 1-4 we beat all of yours...
With the remark of 1.2... I have to say, are you kidding me? As many people as dislike that mess of a fail, you want the most popular server in Trem to use it....O wait, of course you do... As it would either kill us or boost 1.2's popularity... HAHA very funny guys..
Yes, newbies like clicking on the first server in list before resorting it. And then they are stuck on your server because they can't get a single kill on other servers. You may be different because you started out on other servers. But some only know X gameplay.
Bullshit about X keeping Trem alive. Newbies may go there and stay, but if I picked up trem and went there first, I'd quit in 10 minutes. There are 0 skills and 0 tactics what so ever required there. It's just people jumping around and shooting mostly randomly.
And about it being more popular: I challenge X to survive long term after removing the boxes from it's name. And 1.2 would kill X cuz it won't be on top of the list anymore, and with no new players, it will slowly die out. This has nothing to do with 1.2 killing X because of gameplay, as they can just mod it to exactly what it currently is.
Tremulous does not have very much advertising so the majority of the players will hear about it from a friend who, in most cases, will suggest a server. You were once a newbie your self, did you click the first server on the list? I did not, I chose the forth from the top because it had more than 10 players and less than 30. On my server list X is no where near the top, and never has been.
And all that could've been avoided with a simple 1.1.1.
Bingo.
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but if I picked up trem and went there first, I'd quit in 10 minutes.
Your opinion is biased.... You dont like it so you are not objective...
No, what I'm saying is that a player that looks for a challenging game, not a game where he can jump around like a monkey, would quit if he got the impression that whole Trem was like X. And that's the kind of players Trem needs more then the newbies who never talk, never read, and when they don't like the map, start deconning.
If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?
You guys are making me laugh.... I have seen X move up and down the list... Its not always on top, its sometimes WAY down on the list.... How many times do I have to say that... And I dont sort by PING...
The default client by default sorts the list BY NAME. And the boxes are sorted before letter A. So they appear at the top. Of course not everyone will choose the first server they see that has players, but more new players choose X then they otherwise would.
Users such as yourself.
Ok,that makes total sense... If someone doesnt like GPP, doesnt worship the ground Vanilla shits on, etc then you want them to stay on X... Ok thats fine... We will keep taking the people who YOU chase away and stay the most popular server in Trem... Your claims as to the only reason we are popular is server listings is bs, it shows your disdain for New players and your opinion that they are all stupid... The average gamer that is going to go out and search for open source games is going to find Trem but its gonna be this site, and this site pushes the idiotic 1.2... That aside, It is no wonder people leave your servers for ours, yes your gameplay may be more traditional Trem... BUT at least we dont put people down for being new.
New people are welcome at X, they should be welcome on your servers... But by the fact that they 'just click on the first server in the list' is the biggest load of shit...
We shall see someday how well I am treated when I venture out to your servers... I can almost say for certain you will not be decent and welcoming me.. Which will prove my whole point.
Newbies are welcome almost anywhere, I don't think anyone here said they are not. Noone here said they think newbies are all stupid. We just don't like what X does to them. And calling 1.2 "idiotic" was the most hypocritical thing you could say right now IMO.
I have to agree with your face, people like you make X look even worse.
P.S. Also, why do so many of the 1.2 haters have a bunch of empty lines in their posts?
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Hello, I am an admin and developer on XserverX servers and I would like to weigh on this discussion.
X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.
It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".
Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.
Au contraire. It IS Tremulous, just a radically different gameplay style. It seems you and your compatriots believe we ensnare players and make them think that our server is representative of Tremulous as a whole. However, we have never made such a claim, as it would be erroneous to do so. We have only instituted a method of gameplay that we enjoy and gone forward with it.
Players coming off from the X server also often find it hard to kill anyone on a normal server, so they are forced to return to the X server. A black hole effect if you will...
Let us look at this from another light. Players coming to other servers from never having played will find it near impossible to kill someone at first. The same issue occurs with X. So your argument that we make players worse is invalid. X just requires a different set of skills / strategies than do vanilla servers and while playing on X players gain experience for X, not normal servers.
On the other hand, people from regular servers don't have much trouble going to X
No, they do not. I personally played vanilla first and often times play vanilla to keep sharp. Normal servers are great for boosting your ability to aim better and evade, strategies which X does not necessarily teach a player. However, that is not a "fault", but rather a difference.
It further alienates the rest of the community by pretending to be something its not. All of its mod files are placed in the base folder, something which should be reserved for, you guessed it, the game's base files. This is both untidy and not particularly honest.
By mod files I assume you are referring to the 3 custom maps we have and the X server graphics mod. Because other than that, X utilizes no custom mods. And it is our decision to use that space. That does not make it untidy or dishonest. Rather, it makes it a bit more tidy. Because if you are looking for files from X, you know where to look. The base folder
X has nothing in common with trem gameplay wise, but it acts like it's vanilla trem, that's the main reason people hate it.
False. We do not act like vanilla trem. If you ask any of our admins, we will be the first to say we are NOT vanilla trem.
That is true, but it means you cannot have a separate set of binds for vanilla tremulous and X server, this is a problem for people who build their binds based on tactical combinations, or want "itemtoggle blaster" set to the right mouse button instead of "itemact medkit". I like autoexec.cfg thank you very much.
Sure you can. Just make a .cfg file such as "x.cfg", add your binds, and place it in your base folder, then when in game do "/exec x.cfg" and you will have custom binds to use on X.
That they mod is fine, its that they mod *improperly*
No. We mod *differently*.
most people will sort by ping so i dont really believe that adding box chars to get on top of list is valid
Thank you proving that you are unaware of what they are actually doing. They are not adding "box chars". Those sir are zeros. Anybody can use them. If you do not know where the 0 key is, it is to the right of the "9" key and left of the "-" key on the number line.
Yes, newbies like clicking on the first server in list before resorting it. And then they are stuck on your server because they can't get a single kill on other servers. You may be different because you started out on other servers. But some only know X gameplay.
And we keep them bound to X with a ball and chain? They have as much difficulty getting kills on other servers as they would if they were new to trem in the first place. So we do not make them worse, but provide a server they enjoy. Is that not the point of a game? To provide entertainment to the masses.
I challenge X to survive long term after removing the boxes from it's name
Again with the ignorance. They are not boxes, but zeros.
Why people here generally don't like X:
Users such as yourself. NO OFFENSE, THOUGH.
You aren't helping your cause there buddy. Just coming in and not contributing to the discussion at hand, but rather tossing an insult at another user certainly makes you seem like the image of a great user yourself.
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X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.
It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".
They are not 0s
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If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?
You guys are making me laugh.... I have seen X move up and down the list... Its not always on top, its sometimes WAY down on the list.... How many times do I have to say that... And I dont sort by PING...
Another reason to remove boxes. If those don't work anyway, why keep them? That's all I want, they do it and I'm fine with them.
Hello, I am an admin and developer on XserverX servers and I would like to weigh on this discussion.
X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.
It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".
most people will sort by ping so i dont really believe that adding box chars to get on top of list is valid
Thank you proving that you are unaware of what they are actually doing. They are not adding "box chars". Those sir are zeros. Anybody can use them. If you do not know where the 0 key is, it is to the right of the "9" key and left of the "-" key on the number line.
Those zeros has sharp edges sir (http://i41.tinypic.com/2a5i3rs.jpg)
...not that sorting by ping is borked in vanilla (as well as in tjw's) and that newbies don't care about server list sorting anyway, right?
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Is SENSORED same than 0 ?
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BULLSHIT about them being zeroes. How about you stop lying? It's abuse as that was not the intended use, and you are getting an advantage from it.
It's too radically different for gameplay skills to be transferable, so it is not Tremulous. This is not true in the other way however, much of what is learned on other servers is usable on X, so many consider X gameplay newbish.
You are saying X requires a 'different' set of skills/strategies? What skills/strategies?
Yes, X newbies fail about as bad as normal newbies on other servers, so, all the time they played on X was wasted if they thought they could become any better.
DraZiLoX: SHHH
EDIT: oh yeah, I forgot about sort by ping being borked.
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X is the co_ server of Tremulous, and I hope it will stay on 1.1.
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Hello, I am an admin and developer on XserverX servers and I would like to weigh on this discussion.
X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.
It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".
Its an ugly attempt to put your server further up on the server list. If its working, then that's a ugly hack, if its not, then its a shameful mess. Either way this is not proper use of the system. The creators of the system changed it due to this kind of use. As someone said earlier: just because anyone can use this hack doesn't mean this is fair play.Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.
Au contraire. It IS Tremulous, just a radically different gameplay style. It seems you and your compatriots believe we ensnare players and make them think that our server is representative of Tremulous as a whole. However, we have never made such a claim, as it would be erroneous to do so. We have only instituted a method of gameplay that we enjoy and gone forward with it.
It is not tremulous gameplay, it is, in your own words, a radically different gameplay style. I admit you have not outright claimed that your server is representative of tremulous, that would be rediculous. I'm sure if asked directly, you would state the truth. However, the only thing I see you doing to present this is your website, linked to by the motd. This is insufficient. Everything else, such as the base-folder mod, is masking the truth by witholding information. I do not belive its due dilligence. I've personally /denybuilded *many* on AA for battlegranging because for some reasons people are convinced it works. I have heard people say things like "wtf, hax! That dretch survived one blaster shot!!!"? Yes, people are convinced by your silence.
Players coming off from the X server also often find it hard to kill anyone on a normal server, so they are forced to return to the X server. A black hole effect if you will...
Let us look at this from another light. Players coming to other servers from never having played will find it near impossible to kill someone at first. The same issue occurs with X. So your argument that we make players worse is invalid. X just requires a different set of skills / strategies than do vanilla servers and while playing on X players gain experience for X, not normal servers.
If only people understood that then this argument would disappear.
It further alienates the rest of the community by pretending to be something its not. All of its mod files are placed in the base folder, something which should be reserved for, you guessed it, the game's base files. This is both untidy and not particularly honest.
By mod files I assume you are referring to the 3 custom maps we have and the X server graphics mod. Because other than that, X utilizes no custom mods. And it is our decision to use that space. That does not make it untidy or dishonest. Rather, it makes it a bit more tidy. Because if you are looking for files from X, you know where to look.
What? Do I have to explain qvm development to you? If the damage of weapons and hp of classes have been changed, you are running a gameplay changing mod. You might care to read the sticky in that forum. Do I also have to explain the tremulous folder structure to you? Firstly, maps always go into the base folder. The graphics mod is technically fine the base folder, but since it belongs to the gameplay mod, does it not belong in that (nonexistant) folder? And I am not necessarily talking about file structure clientside, if you cared to read the gameplay-changing mod sticky you might understand my reasons for asking this of you.
That is true, but it means you cannot have a separate set of binds for vanilla tremulous and X server, this is a problem for people who build their binds based on tactical combinations, or want "itemtoggle blaster" set to the right mouse button instead of "itemact medkit". I like autoexec.cfg thank you very much.
Sure you can. Just make a .cfg file such as "x.cfg", add your binds, and place it in your base folder, then when in game do "/exec x.cfg" and you will have custom binds to use on X.That they mod is fine, its that they mod *improperly*
No. We mod *differently*.
I like autoexec.cfg thank you very much. I cannot take seriously such a refusal to change less than 20 characters in one file, which I assume you know about.
I challenge X to survive long term after removing the boxes from it's name
Again with the ignorance. They are not boxes, but zeros.
They look the boxes, the box tool in gimp fits them perfectly. They are boxes. The fact that they are technically zeros does not invalidate his statement.
EDIT: It appears I gave you too much credibillity. I originally thought they were null characters, but apparently they have more in common with 1 than 0
Why people here generally don't like X:
Users such as yourself. NO OFFENSE, THOUGH.
You aren't helping your cause there buddy. Just coming in and not contributing to the discussion at hand, but rather tossing an insult at another user certainly makes you seem like the image of a great user yourself.
Indeed
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Those zeros has sharp edges sir (http://i41.tinypic.com/2a5i3rs.jpg)
Granted, but they are zeros nonetheless. Trust me on this one, or just make a server yourself real quick it will take like 5 min. In server.cfg change sv_hostname to 0000000000000000000000000000X and watch as your server goes higher up than X. Also you will have boxy zeroes.
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Those zeros has sharp edges sir (http://i41.tinypic.com/2a5i3rs.jpg)
Granted, but they are zeros nonetheless. Trust me on this one, or just make a server yourself real quick it will take like 5 min. In server.cfg change sv_hostname to 0000000000000000000000000000X and watch as your server goes higher up than X. Also you will have boxy zeroes.
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Laughable.
Non ascii characters. Calling them zeros is just lying by omission.
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Looks like lucifer666s8n had to call in the cavalry. :D
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Granted, but they are zeros nonetheless. Trust me on this one, or just make a server yourself real quick it will take like 5 min. In server.cfg change sv_hostname to 0000000000000000000000000000X and watch as your server goes higher up than X. Also you will have boxy zeroes.
Lies, you'll be lower, as '0' (48) sorts below SOH (1) which you are using.
The server name isn't text, and IMO should be discarded by the master server as malformed.
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The server name isn't text, and IMO should be discarded by the master server as malformed.
Except that could be bypassed by lying to master, so clients have to discard it.
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X is the co_ server of Tremulous, and I hope it will stay on 1.1.
co_ ? Sorry if that escapes me....
I have heard people say things like "wtf, hax! That dretch survived one blaster shot!!!"?
And I have heard people say the same thing in reverse... 'WTF! That Tyrant has a nade WTF hax!!!' So your servers ingrain a set standard for Trem gameplay as well... Herm is correct in the difference between X and Vanilla Trem... It is radically different gameplay, and most people seem to figure that out... Just cause people attempt to use strategies etc from X on vanilla servers is not OUR fault... They are the players, and can do whatever they feel will win...
Looks like lucifer666s8n had to call in the cavalry.
Dont enjoy not getting to just pick on the One person involved eh? Herm has the technical answers I do not... As with the links I posted earlier in this thread, the wanton attacks on X server when the admins post our info... So sorry for letting others know about this thread... ::)
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The server name isn't text, and IMO should be discarded by the master server as malformed.
Except that could be bypassed by lying to master, so clients have to discard it.
Because it's not like we can spot that, and block the servers. Thus they would be shooting themselves in the foot somewhat.
If I wasn't so lazy there are tons of ways to mess with servers.
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I have heard people say things like "wtf, hax! That dretch survived one blaster shot!!!"?
And I have heard people say the same thing in reverse... 'WTF! That Tyrant has a nade WTF hax!!!'
Indeed, and this is my point. People don't know that they are playing a modded server. In order to figure out that X is modded they need to either visit the website (yeah right) or play at least two other servers and even then they have to come across something like that. People don't know that X is modded until they have a wtf moment. This is not becoming of such a popular mod. One line in the motd would solve this issue for me.
EDIT: the other main thing is the boxes, though that soon will be rendered moot by the master server I hope.
I don't think that this will make everyone feel good about X, but if you go and read your threads you'll find there are quite a few people who's issues with the server revolve around things like this. Personally I might as well give it another try with that knowledge, since I really haven't spent the hour or so necessary to actually decide (and not to do so and still speak poorly of its changes would be hypocritical considering my attitude concerning 1.2)
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Put "This server is heavily modded" in the motd, and pretty much everyone would be much happier about it.(Not to say they would be totally, but it would help)
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Personally I might as well give it another try with that knowledge, since I really haven't spent the hour or so necessary to actually decide (and not to do so and still speak poorly of its changes would be hypocritical considering my attitude concerning 1.2)
You might find it fun... after all, it is a change and rather fast paced... Unless you would rather it be slower....
"This server is heavily modded"
A simple yet descriptive sentence... And without the flaming... Thanks Spork
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You create a server heavily moded denaturing the vanilla gameplay, making useless all the precedent tactics, bases and way of playing from a 1.1 server, giving a wrong idea of what Tremulous at the base is to the newbies after having put your server on the top of the list with a dirty hack and then complain that people hate your mod ?
Excuse me ? And further more, does X allow a competition-based gameplay ? Did you people have made things to make Tremulous (the whole bunch, not just X) better ?
For the moment, I can only say no. Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good. If you make it, then I will admit that Tokio Hotel is better than Led Zeppelin.
Which I doubt.
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For the moment, I can only say no. Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good.
O so gametracker, which tracks almost every major game server is not proof enough... Are you delirious? Stay out of the sauce before you post... Might make more sense...
Dirty hack? Hmmm... Wow... The day trem.net denounces all the servers that have the extra characters in their name then you can say dirty... Till then stop the bull shit...
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Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good.
Technically I cannot prove that you exist, however, Gametracker is at very least evidence that it is popular. Saying it is the most popular is perhaps going a bit far considering which servers (notably the official 1.2 servers) are not on that list, but I find your reaction a bit thoughtless.
Dirty hack? Hmmm... Wow... The day trem.net denounces all the servers that have the extra characters in their name then you can say dirty... Till then stop the bull shit...
They have not, but they *did* change the way the master server orders servers because of such abuse.
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this is turning into quite an entertaining topic
might be time for a lock before it goes up to 10 pages of flame?
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Well there are some things that could be cleaned out of this thread, but even if it is flame, its still somewhat informative flame. And I'd like to see what the Xserver devs have to say about the motd request and the not-so-zero boxes.
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Locking this thread would only seem to prove my point. The voice of X, or anyone from it is, ridiculed and silenced. No one locked this thread http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9996.60 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9996.60) And it was elitist attacks on our former owner. Sanity seems to be passed out sparingly in the Dark Legion feeding trough.
You want to know what the devs will say about the characters? Maybe if things were phrased less like four year olds losing a kick ball game screaming "Cheater Cheater" there might be a response.
Remove things from the thread? Wow... Cover the traces of stupidity and ignorance... We must not allow people to see what the true colors of losing server admins and slowly developed WONDERFUL GPP can be... (In case you cannot tell, the GPP comment was sarcasm)
It is informative... It shows how petty people with weak servers are... Elitism is a cold and lonely road... Hope the ride is comfortable.
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For the moment, I can only say no. Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good.
O so gametracker, which tracks almost every major game server is not proof enough... Are you delirious? Stay out of the sauce before you post... Might make more sense...
Dirty hack? Hmmm... Wow... The day trem.net denounces all the servers that have the extra characters in their name then you can say dirty... Till then stop the bull shit...
this has already happened in the past, the only reason the master doesn't do it now is the huge amount of effort it would take to enforce it.
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this has already happened in the past
Then why o master of Trem.nit is X attacked more than any other server? Make ALL of em do it if your that worried... Of course being as jealousy blinds people from common sense....
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I'll be different and just say I don't like your server.
Why?
- The modifications make my eyes bleed
- The people are retarded (http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/1caseyjones/TrollFace.png)
- There are too many players to remain balanced in ranged vs melee combat
- It's called X
- You play there(this point came from reading this thread, not from playing there)
populated so it must be good?
- Meh, it's populated because it's populated. Some people* sort servers by player count when joining servers.
*I couldn't say most people because your counter to that would be a wall of text about unsubstantiated claims.
Jealous?
- Of what? I am not jealous of people who play world of warcraft... why would I be jealous of your server. Both cases have about as much to do with tremulous.
p.s someone make me a sig/petition to remove X from the master server. You know, just for shits and giggles
p.p.s If you are so sure you are doing it right, why are you trying to get validation here? You knew you are like the fat cousin nobody really likes, why are you fishing for drama on these forums by asking why?
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this has already happened in the past
Then why o master of Trem.nit is X attacked more than any other server? Make ALL of em do it if your that worried...
Woah, you've gone off the wall a bit your past couple posts. Go back to the beginning of the thread, don't loose track of the big picture here. The problem is not primarily/only with boxes Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.
X has nothing in common with trem gameplay wise, but it acts like it's vanilla trem, that's the main reason people hate it.
X might as well be a complete fork of actual tremulous, a fork that prevents newbies from playing the game that I have come to know and love.
The boxes thing is just adding insult to injury. And it's only popular because it's at the top of the list. Popularity and list position are basically the same thing.
Of course being as jealousy blinds people from common sense....
I'm starting to get tired of hearing this. On what basis do you make this assertion? I do not believe anyone has suggested that their favorite server should get the players from X. Enough with the ad hominem. You have asked why people dislike X, and have been answered. You have acknowledged some of the problems yourself. Do you believe X can do no wrong?
why are you trying to get validation here? ...why are you fishing for drama on these forums by asking why [people don't like X]?
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(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2043/xserverssuck.png)
[img]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2043/xserverssuck.png[/img]
Add this banner to your signature if you think xservers SUCK!
lol new cooler version
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X servers SUCKS?
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I'll be different and just say I don't like your server.
Very well stated... Reasons you have that opinion are your opinions... Very personal answer... Thanks.... UNTIL
If you are so sure you are doing it right, why are you trying to get validation here? You knew you are like the fat cousin nobody really likes, why are you fishing for drama on these forums by asking why?
Read the posts... Validation is the farthest thing from my mind... I am sick of useless bile that is spit upon the XserverX admins when they post their server information and contact info... Just cause you dont like us doesnt mean you may attack our head admins just for shits and giggles... Unless of course I can do the same to every other server owner etc that lists here...
Woah, you've gone off the wall a bit your past couple posts. Go back to the beginning of the thread, don't loose track of the big picture here.
Ya I know.... Hard not to fall into the flamer trap... I apologize..
You have acknowledged some of the problems yourself. Do you believe X can do no wrong?
As far as 'doing no wrong' no one is at that level... Just as people attack GPP etc they attack X for the changes... Is there things they can fix? I Imagine there are some, (server list position can be fixed by the player themselves, Some people* sort servers by player count when joining servers.
This is just one of the reasons we are attacked... I decided to look for evidence last night of other servers that boost their server position as we do being attacked... I did not find anything... You said AA was attacked, well, when Ozzy left he was wished a found farewell, when our guys (if they did) decided to post a farewell here they would get slammed again by the same bile, with 'good riddance' thrown in...
AS far as the reasoning behind X being attacked, the only thing that is a valid issue is MAYBE the act of not stating on the loading page that we are heavily modded... Hmm... Wonderland does not state is is... UBP doesnt, and most other servers with changed gameplay do not either...
why would I be jealous of your server. Both cases have about as much to do with tremulous.
Nice way to phrase a question with an attack there... The only reason I suggest the existence of jealousy is the fact that our server is more successful than all the others, our game play seems to appeal to more people, than you guys are willing to admit... and we are attacked more than ANY other server that I have noticed. From just looking at the railing against us, it does appear as jealousy...
Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?
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Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?
If Jimmy has 100 crap toys, and Johnny has 2 awesome ones, then Jimmy would accuse Johnny of jealousy to hide his own feelings of inadequacy.
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WRONG ANSWER.
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Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?
If Jimmy has 100 crap toys, and Johnny has 2 awesome ones, then Jimmy would accuse Johnny of jealousy to hide his own feelings of inadequacy.
Thats an even better analogy... You guys have hundreds of crap servers and we have 2 awesome ones... Thanks for reminding me of that!!
And by the way, that is not anything helpful to the discussion... Just picking apart my nalogy...
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I would strongly disagree with that.
That's opinion, not fact(you've been screaming that throughout this thread, so i thought I'd throw it back at you.)
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I would strongly disagree with that.
That's opinion, not fact(you've been screaming that throughout this thread, so i thought I'd throw it back at you.)
The only point on that small issue that I want to get accross is this.... Someone asked me to explain why I thought jealousy was an issue... I explained, and instead of being dispoven someone picked apart my analogy and twisted it.. So I did the same in reverse... That all Mr. Spork
(http://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/74.86.23.18:50000/b_160x400_T0_C19C2C8-430505-FFFFFF-101313_F-1-2-3.png)
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Popular != Good.
Posting that its popular isn't helping your cause at all.
Miley Cyrus is Popular, and she sucks.
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I've played in the X server before, and I can't say I like it. I don't have a problem with it in itself, but like others have said, it should be more clear to players that it is heavily modded. Not claiming it's not vanilla means nothing unless you actually state it somewhere clearly visible to all players. I've seen quite a few players come on a normal server and start running out with a blaster repeatedly.
I don't mind if a player tries your mod and decides he or she likes it more than vanilla trem. But I really feel players should start with vanilla before they try other flavors. I am sure many of your regulars AND new players started with the X server before trying a normal one. To someone who knows normal gameplay, saying "wtf" when they try the X mod is quite reasonable, but it does NOT work the other way around. An X server regular who tries a normal server and says "wtf" is just showing his ignorance of how the game was designed to be.
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[-omitted - Of what? I am not jealous of people who play world of warcraft... ]why would I be jealous of your server. Both cases have about as much to do with tremulous.
Nice way to phrase a question with an attack there... The only reason I suggest the existence of jealousy is the fact that our server is more successful than all the others, our game play seems to appeal to more people, than you guys are willing to admit... and we are attacked more than ANY other server that I have noticed. From just looking at the railing against us, it does appear as jealousy...
Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?
I am familiar with the concept of jealousy, thank you. That was actually an attack phrased as a question, there was no need to break it down into simplified examples for me. I appreciate the gesture though. ;)
The only point on that small issue that I want to get accross is this.... Someone asked me to explain why I thought jealousy was an issue... I explained, and instead of being dispoven someone picked apart my analogy and twisted it.. So I did the same in reverse... That all Mr. Spork
You were asked a rhetorical question, we'll call it a misunderstanding and leave little Jimmy and Johnny out of this, lest we reach the pedo-point early. As for disproving an emotion, quick, someone whip out the jealousy meter! You were given several reasons people don't like your server... You can either chalk them up to jealousy or accept them as valid criticisms and weigh them as such before discarding them.
disclosure: I'm not affiliated with any server and have very little riding on the life or death of tremulous
Lets not forget though:
(http://tancast.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg)
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You can either chalk them up to jealousy or accept them as valid criticisms and weigh them as such before discarding them.
Good point... ;) The picture was hilarious... Awesome... :laugh:
Miley Cyrus is Popular, and she sucks.
Yes she does suck....worse than GPP...
So you guys claim if we had something stated on our loading screen you would have no problem with us? .......... Forgive me if I fail to believe you... Besides, who even bothers to check for such things... lol {Im not sure if the devs would be willing to go that far... Im not a dev so I cant say...}
But if that were to happen then you guys should do the same thing (I.E. Ridicule, attack, smear, ask to have it removed from the master list etc) to every other server that is modded in any way from Vanilla trem... Whats good for the goose ios good for the gander...
I am sure many of your regulars AND new players started with the X server before trying a normal one.
Um... The exact numbers I do not know... But it would be interesting to find out...
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"who even checks for those things"
you do know what the mote is right? It's the message that pops up when you enter the server.
And how do you know gpp sucks? You said yourself you never played it.
You say we're ridiculing, smearing, etc? You're doing the exact same thing.
You, sir, are an obnoxious hypocritical moron who will not listen to reason.
Go sit on a tack.
Yours truly,
Spork.
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You, sir, are an obnoxious hypocritical moron who will not listen to reason.
Obnoxious...possibly...listen to reason.... Well, I agree about the mote screen idea... But the other stuff is iffy.... Ya sure I dont listen at all...
And how do you know gpp sucks? You said yourself you never played it.
I have stated that I played it before... Search is your friend.....
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I dont mean to be obvious but FWIW the X server is the most popular 1.1 server because Dretch*Storm moved to 1.2 :P
Now, if you want to talk about the most popular 1.2 server, then that's another thread :booster:
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i couldn't help but point this out.... if X server were to take away the mods, and try to conform to all of the vanilla servers,and the "classic" trem play. do you really think we would stay as popular as we are? i don't understand why everyone from this site is so direct and forward on being mean and rude to us X admins/players?!?!?!
i am a good example here: as i sit, i have been playing X for close to 2 1/2 yrs now have donated a lot of money, and time to help the "noobs" on the server(they come in, if i don't recognize them i ask if they need help!!!(i am(and a lot more are) all about the service to our players) we are popular because we try, we try to make it enjoyable for all the players who step foot in our server...
i dont know much about computers or the mods! but i do know this... when my friend Donskov told me about this game over 2yrs ago, the very first server i looked at was X. not because it was at the top (i actually found it at the bottom of the list), it was because there was 20+ people in there(compared to 5-10 in others!) i have tried playing the vanilla servers, and i really dont see what all you people in the boring, dull, not exciting world of regular trem like so much about it! if X server was not there i guarantee i would have never stuck around!... and im sure i speak for alot of the X players on that!
i am not bashing on the normal game play, just stating that i have played the vanilla way, but i like the modded way better!
and just to let all you know that say players rage quit and never come back to trem because of Xserverx is very wrong! i have ragequit myself.... but it wasnt from x it was from the vanilla servers! and it wasn't because of the game play! it was because the arrogant nature of how some players treated me when i didnt know what i was doing on a regular server! here at X server we strive to treat all the players with the same respect as we treat our friends and family!<----- maybe thats why we are ranked #1??? ohh wait... nope its because were placed at the top of the server list, right? lol wrong! like i said, i found it because of the # of players. not ping not where its placed, not the name, not the mod!... the # of players! :)
thanks for listening HUMA out----->
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Thanks HUMA for the post.... 8)
dont mean to be obvious but FWIW the X server is the most popular 1.1 server because Dretch*Storm moved to 1.2
We were popular before that.... But thanks for the thought.... ;)
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X servers SUCKS?
Yes, all xserverx servers sucks.
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Wheres a Grammar nazi when you need one?
Thanks Drazilox for the wonderful show of brilliance you have brought to this discussion.... :-\
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My pleasure!
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I guess the reason ppl hate X so much is because it is BY FAR the most modded and most different from vanilla, and cuz they use the boxes to get to top of list, thus taking a bunch of newbies and turning them into noobs. Players that have played only on X and come to other servers really don't have a clue how to play, for example using the worst weapons possible (blaster/battlegranger/luci to defend/psaw to kill aliens). I took another look at X, here's what no experienced player will like in a serious game: infinite stamina, super jump, 10m basi grab range, 2 snipe kill RC??? RC zaps everything in LoS with uber damage (what happened to hopping RC?), respawn rate of ~1 sec, etc. Basically you have removed everything that used to require skill/tactics, and then made the previously weak things some of the strongest for their price, so everyone would try to use those on other servers (and fail/feed miserably). And then you come to these forums where many are experienced players and ask why they don't like it. The only things still similar to trem are class/weapon/buildable names/models. You are not making Trem more popular, you have just split the community.
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*cough* May I quote from silver?
"We have that issue of the pollacks not having 1.2 clients though. They don't read the MOTD either trust me."
You think X server 'nubs' will read the MOTD?
You are not making Trem more popular, you have just split the community.
What community? last I checked this was a dog-eat-dog forum, correct me if I'm wrong. Tremulous is open source so it is begging for 'mods', the ones who made it open source have split "the community", not us.
2 snipe kill RC???
I remember when it was 1 snipe kills RC :D the nubs stand the weak RC and win with out hopping the RC.
This will go on till some one decides to lock it, vanilla vs modded, the war that never ends, NEVAR.
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I think the biggest problem is that it is much harder for someone who starts in the X server to get used to vanilla trem, compared to a vanilla trem player trying out the X server. I haven't played in the X server for a while (especially since I really only play GPP now), but from what I remember, pretty much all alien classes and human weapons are modded so that they can be used effectively in combat. A vanilla trem player going to the X server would probably start by playing how he knows the game originally, and learns the modifications to along the way. However, X players trying a vanilla server often start off with a blaster and such, causing his/her teammates to be annoyed.
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Thats an even better analogy... You guys have hundreds of crap servers and we have 2 awesome ones... Thanks for reminding me of that!!
And you guys have hundreds of shitty players and they have a few select amazing ones. Suck it.
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You think X server 'nubs' will read the MOTD?
It doesn't matter as long as X server does due diligence. I daresay that is not the case today.
You are not making Trem more popular, you have just split the community.
What community? last I checked this was a dog-eat-dog forum, correct me if I'm wrong. Tremulous is open source so it is begging for 'mods', the ones who made it open source have split "the community", not us.
Definition of dog-eat-dog from wiktionary: "Describes a business or other set of circumstances where people have to act with no consideration for other people if they are to succeed." If I am right, this entire thread is about consideration for others. If you think that the fact that a project is open source is begging to have a split community then, well, what can I do but leave you to yourself. From my understanding, the GPL (one of many open source licenses) is about a respect for information and for sharing information. Do you really think that little about community? Personally I think the very idea of dog-eat-dog is unethical, but I digress. I certainly hope you do not intend to succeed here, if you care so little of others.
i couldn't help but point this out.... if X server were to take away the mods, and try to conform to all of the vanilla servers,and the "classic" trem play. do you really think we would stay as popular as we are? i don't understand why everyone from this site is so direct and forward on being mean and rude to us X admins/players?!?!?!
Would you say that I am being disrespectful in my opinion of your server? Of course X should not try to conform to the vanilla standard. I *do* expect X to be forthright about what they are doing (I believe players are being confused about what actually is vanilla and that X is doing nothing to correct that confusion, hence the motd request), not be deceitful (zero...), and to not abuse the system (more zeros).
it wasn't because of the game play! it was because the arrogant nature of how some players treated me when i didnt know what i was doing on a regular server!
My first game that I joined I was votekicked without explanation upon introducing myself as a newbie. So yes, sometimes people are not treated well, and I doubt many people here condone that kind of behavior (or some of the flaming in this thread for that matter).
Note: If you expect respect, and luci expects a certain degree of respect, and I as well...this is anecdotal evidence that this is not meant to be dog-eat dog as stated by commander scrooge.
So you guys claim if we had something stated on our loading screen you would have no problem with us? .......... Forgive me if I fail to believe you...
I would have no problem with you as a matter of principle. Having played a bit more, I think X gameplay is also poor, and I guess you could go so far as to call that a "problem". But first and foremost I think there are other problems (see the expectations above). If those problems are solved, I would defend X's position as a valid mod, with poor gameplay.
Besides, who even bothers to check for such things... lol
Idk, at least X would be doing its due dilligence.
But if that were to happen then you guys should do the same thing to every other server that is modded in any way from Vanilla trem... Whats good for the goose is good for the gander...
Indeed, Every server that abuses sorting in this manner should be removed from the master list (IMO, though its not likely to happen because in the next version that simply isn't going to be possible). Every mod that misinforms its players like this is worthy of disdain (Note that ubp's changes are right in the name, and wonderland's are in the motd). Its just that X server also has bad gameplay and a decently-sized playerbase that makes it such a prime target for ridicule, ridicule that would (rightfully) not be directed towards a lesser server.
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Let's finish this thread (at least for me) : lucifer would rather go to a Miley Cyrus concert instead of playing on a good Tremulous server.
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just adding from what i put up there /\ ... another great thing we do is, we take everything the community has to offer, ideas of, graphics, maps, mods, ect! Every and all player can give us ideas on different ways of play, then we have a vote. figure out, and go for the happy medium! :) yes it is a split community. but, it doesn't have to be though! if you guys just lightin up on us a bit we CAN all get along...
i think soon i have to see what 1.2 is all about, you guys are really really serious and make it sound great! :) so i want to try it soon! if you see this name--->HUMAHATER you will probably kick me just because, but i hope you don't and give me a shot!;)
i just dont like slow game play thats probably why im so involved with X. but im defiantly always up for a new challenge! hope to see some of you guys ingame soon! :D
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if you see this name--->HUMAHATER you will probably kick me just because, but i hope you don't and give me a shot!;)
I sure hope not, and do complain if you are.
i just dont like slow game play thats probably why im so involved with X. but im defiantly always up for a new challenge! hope to see some of you guys ingame soon! :D
I don't know but I find X (or at least the ubiquitous treecannon) slow. Sure humans and their weapons are slower physically, but the actual combat is faster because of this because the human can't strafejump quite so fast. The bases are weaker too, so most games end before SD. Rushing also takes more teamwork and less preparation.
Oh for goodness sake, why on X you have to killwhore so much to get basebusting weaponry I'll never know.
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Not sure as too the exact reasoning for the gameplay choices they have implemented there, but they seem to work quite well...
As far as treecannon goes, well, that map is kinda weird anyway lol
As far as slow gameplay, I was on a GPP stock game play server last night for about 20-30 minutes... I almost fell asleep... It is funny you talk about people just running out with a blaster... Well, I guess camping is a wonderful trem tactic... At least thats all they were doing...
The same tactics of Humans camp and aliens attack from X is what I saw on the GPP server... And to tell you the truth, it was horrible...
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As far as slow gameplay, I was on a GPP stock game play server last night for about 20-30 minutes... I almost fell asleep...
Try it in daytime then.
I remember playing on X for an hour. That was terrible. The message "XXXX launched the nuke" and you had to runaway as fast as possible because this crap could one hit you in humans red room while XXXX guy was in aliens default. Humans had base there, on the platform opposite to aliens default, they kept camping and camping there, as well as aliens whose base was in window. Don't remember now how that ended and I don't remember the second game, but I know that was enough to say that server sucks balls thus confirm my initial judgment.
The same tactics of Humans camp and aliens attack from X is what I saw on the GPP server... And to tell you the truth, it was horrible...
That's what happens when you use tactics from retarded server in normal server. In "basic" GPP game, aliens and humans are both able to dominate the map (make other team camp/defend) or fight for domination. Which is exciting and fun, until you have a team willing to fight.
There's also no point in discussing about gameplay, because everyone has his own taste, and saying "you are moron because you like X/GPP/1.1 gameplay" is as retarded as X gameplay.
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Hey, just thought that I would also make a comment here.
First, I would like to mention that I'm an X moderator and developer (don't hate on me too much : P). The first server I played wasn't X though, but EBSF (and then some random vanilla servers), and I still play vanilla servers quite often.
I'd also like to mention that I make games for a living, and I know that imbalance in gameplay across servers can seriously mess up the community. We are fully guilty of messing up the community like that, and I sincerely apologize. There are 2 things I would like to mention along those lines though to help clear our name a little bit. 1 is, whenever someone comes onto X and says "Hey, I'm new to trem!" or some such thing along those lines, the 2 most common phrases you will here from the admins are "Welcome to the servers!" and "You might want to play some vanila servers for a little while" (in which case the admin usually then has a several minute convo with the player explaining the difference between modded servers and vanilla servers). We want the tremulous community to do good as well. The second thing that I'd like to mention, is, as most of you probably know, we recently switched server owners, and along with that got some new devs and what not. Right now we are concentrating on molding the gameplay a bit better, however once we feel the QVM is a bit more stable, and the gameplay is more balanced, we would love to make this modded server a 'proper' modded server, and try to make it a bit more clear that the X server is a mod. Please, if you have suggestions on how we can make the community happier with us, or help make the mod more proper, tell us ( http://xserverx.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25 )!
Some of our players are not good players, and hurt the tremulous community, which also hurts the X community. For this, I apologize, however, as much as we do have some bad players with bad attitudes, we also have some highly respected players, and have produced from the ground up, some very respected players. Like I said, we recently switched owners, and the admins have been reworking the rules, the devs have been reworking the commands, and we hope that as we change this, we wind up producing more respectable players on the server.
The power of any open source game winds up being the community, and we would really like to get you guys happy with us, improve our mod, and improve our players. Please, if you have any suggestions, suggest them to us!
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X has become the top server. But compared to Tremulous in its prime when BG, and BB where around X was not the top. So gj to being the top server in a version of tremulous where it is dying everyday. congrats it takes alot!
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I hate x server because the game requires no skill, and is filled with mostly young children who have no idea how to play, communicate, or act intelligent. The sucking away new players is annoying as well, with the stupid box spam, but x servers are not the only that does this. I think many 1.1 servers that I see are on a similar level with X server in terms of being filled with idiots, and this entire thread is pretty stupid. I don't see what you hope to accomplish with this.
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http://xserverx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4179
Ah, no wonder where they are all coming from.
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Like I said you guys dont know what to say when your not just attacking the server owner... After all, having more of us respond only makes you guys more upset...
And further more... I wanted to start this thread due to the fact that everyone slams us and we sit back and take it. We are part of trem if you like it or not. You talk about our childish players and idiots... Umm, ok... You know your lucky Omega hasnt decided to show up in this conversation... You wouldnt know what the fuck to say to him... Hes not as nice as I am...
But that aside, our devs have even come on here and you disrespect and treat them with as much disdain as myself and they use facts and technical things I do not even know myself...
So sorry if us either proving you wrong, or stating our case well offends... After all. You guys are the ones who refuse to listen... Instead of just attack us..
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You know your lucky Omega hasnt decided to show up in this conversation... You wouldnt know what the fuck to say to him... Hes not as nice as I am...
From reading the over-sized-sig-filled thread, it seems like you don't know what to say to him either. :P He seems like the only guy in the whole thread who knows anything.
Oh, look. I showed up and the thread got locked. :D seems ima workin in miraculous wais.
o and btw, you should really give credit to david for your sig on the xserver forum.
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I'm seeing minimal disrespect towards your devs actually, just systematic dismemberment of your guys' arguments.
You're acting more like a hysterical fanboi who refuses to listen to logic, which is not helping you at all. Heck, we're even giving you guys suggestions on how to be less hated.
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Oh, look. I showed up and the thread got locked. seems ima workin in miraculous wais.
Its not locked...
Heck, we're even giving you guys suggestions on how to be less hated.
And I have agreed with some of them...
I'm seeing minimal disrespect towards your devs actually, just systematic dismemberment of your guys' arguments
And how many times am I gonna have to post the links to where our owners have been slammed not so minimally? NO ONE has bothered to apologize for those posts... And therefore why should I not be insulted when people act that way?
refuses to listen to logic
I live by logic... At least try to...
From reading the over-sized-sig-filled thread, it seems like you don't know what to say to him either. He seems like the only guy in the whole thread who knows anything.
I have great respect for Omega, and I listen to what he has to say... NIG difference in what you are implying.
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Its not locked...
When I try to quote a reply I get a, "This topic is too old to reply, so, it's locked now. Thanks." ???
I have great respect for Omega, and I listen to what he has to say.
Good, now try the doin-- bah, forget this. I will cease and desist participation in the Special Olympics. You should do the same. Have a fine day. 8)
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I'm seeing minimal disrespect towards your devs actually, just systematic dismemberment of your guys' arguments.
You're acting more like a hysterical fanboi who refuses to listen to logic, which is not helping you at all. Heck, we're even giving you guys suggestions on how to be less hated.
</thread>
Hey, just thought that I would also make a comment here.
First, I would like to mention that I'm an X moderator and developer (don't hate on me too much : P). The first server I played wasn't X though, but EBSF (and then some random vanilla servers), and I still play vanilla servers quite often.
I'd also like to mention that I make games for a living, and I know that imbalance in gameplay across servers can seriously mess up the community. We are fully guilty of messing up the community like that, and I sincerely apologize. There are 2 things I would like to mention along those lines though to help clear our name a little bit. 1 is, whenever someone comes onto X and says "Hey, I'm new to trem!" or some such thing along those lines, the 2 most common phrases you will here from the admins are "Welcome to the servers!" and "You might want to play some vanila servers for a little while" (in which case the admin usually then has a several minute convo with the player explaining the difference between modded servers and vanilla servers). We want the tremulous community to do good as well. The second thing that I'd like to mention, is, as most of you probably know, we recently switched server owners, and along with that got some new devs and what not. Right now we are concentrating on molding the gameplay a bit better, however once we feel the QVM is a bit more stable, and the gameplay is more balanced, we would love to make this modded server a 'proper' modded server, and try to make it a bit more clear that the X server is a mod. Please, if you have suggestions on how we can make the community happier with us, or help make the mod more proper, tell us ( http://xserverx.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25 )!
Some of our players are not good players, and hurt the tremulous community, which also hurts the X community. For this, I apologize, however, as much as we do have some bad players with bad attitudes, we also have some highly respected players, and have produced from the ground up, some very respected players. Like I said, we recently switched owners, and the admins have been reworking the rules, the devs have been reworking the commands, and we hope that as we change this, we wind up producing more respectable players on the server.
The power of any open source game winds up being the community, and we would really like to get you guys happy with us, improve our mod, and improve our players. Please, if you have any suggestions, suggest them to us!
at the very least you should use a mod folder other than base, and as someone mentioned earlier a mention in the motd of the server being heavily modded would be nice.
i didn't think this thread could degrade any further than when it started, but it has so i'm locking it. if anyone other than lucifer666s8n wishes to continue the discussion, feel free to start a new one.