Tremulous Forum
General => Official Servers => Topic started by: Lava_Croft on January 16, 2011, 11:48:23 am
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It seems that lately people have found out that you can abuse /team s in order to become a builder without dying, or escaping a Basilisk grab. Last instance was Sir|WoGoMo, and he seems to think this behaviour is perfectly acceptable. Would any administrator(s) care to chip in and enlighten me on the status of such behaviour?
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I would agree with you that it was cheating if there has EVER been any guideline about it. But I've done it lots of times and never has an admin ever warned me about it. There's been lots of admins on when I /team s and rejoin to spawn as a granger. What difference does it make anyway? I could just as well go die at a ret for all I care. Same outcome. Not like I am going to gain points by going to spec.
Until someone clarifies this, then I wouldnt consider your words worth anything. If it is considered cheating then fine, I will not do this again. But if it is not considered cheating then, I will continue doing this as I please.
In any case, I suppose you think that using another clan's tag is also acceptable behavior. You were using the name "Sir|riS" at the time and you are not in Sir clan. Condump follows:
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work connected
Bercik[PL][[Official] entered the game
camper's insurance entered the game
Sir|Anonymoose entered the game
Merry Christmas entered the game
sasaki koasahiaki entered the game
inglarg entered the game
work entered the game
Sir|WoGoMo entered the game
UnnamedPlayer entered the game
Bercik[PL][[Official] joined the aliens
work joined the humans
Sir|riS entered the game
Sir|riS joined the humans
UnnamedPlayer joined the aliens
Si_mononoke entered the game
monaio entered the game
work was bitten by Bercik[PL][[Official]
Bercik[PL][[Official] was gunned down by a turret
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Sir|riS
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Sir|riS
sasaki koasahiaki joined the aliens
Sir|riS was bitten by Bercik[PL][[Official]
Bercik[PL][[Official] was lasgunned by Sir|riS
Bercik[PL][[Official] was lasgunned by Sir|riS
Merry Christmas joined the humans
UnnamedPlayer was blasted by work
work was bitten by sasaki koasahiaki
work was bitten by UnnamedPlayer
monaio joined the humans
UnnamedPlayer was machinegunned by monaio
sasaki koasahiaki was lasgunned by Sir|riS
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas was bitten by UnnamedPlayer
work was lasgunned by TEAMMATE Sir|riS
sasaki koasahiaki was lasgunned by Sir|riS
Sir|riS was machinegunned by TEAMMATE monaio
work disconnected
[H] Sir|riS: ...
[H] Sir|riS: blind?
UnnamedPlayer was machinegunned by monaio
sasaki koasahiaki was machinegunned by Merry Christmas
[H] Sir|riS: lol
Merry Christmas was bitten by UnnamedPlayer
[H] Sir|riS: work decons reactor
[H] Sir|riS: then disconnects
sasaki koasahiaki was machinegunned by monaio
monaio was bitten by UnnamedPlayer
UnnamedPlayer was gunned down by a turret
Merry Christmas was bitten by sasaki koasahiaki
Nuwanda connected
sasaki koasahiaki was machinegunned by Merry Christmas
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Merry Christmas
Nuwanda entered the game
UnnamedPlayer was gunned down by a turret
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Merry Christmas
[S] Nuwanda: hi
Nuwanda joined the aliens
work connected
sasaki koasahiaki was lasgunned by Sir|riS
UnnamedPlayer was machinegunned by Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas was bitten by Bercik[PL][[Official]
sasaki koasahiaki was lasgunned by Sir|riS
work entered the game
work joined the humans
Sir|riS was bitten by Bercik[PL][[Official]
Bercik[PL][[Official] couldn't escape Sir|riS's grenade
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by Merry Christmas
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by Merry Christmas
Sir|riS was melted by an acid tube
sasaki koasahiaki was grilled by Sir|riS's flamer
Bercik[PL][[Official] was sawn by Sir|riS
Merry Christmas was zapped by UnnamedPlayer's Marauder
Bercik[PL][[Official] was sawn by Sir|riS
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by monaio
Sir|riS was melted by an acid tube
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by monaio
UnnamedPlayer was sawn by Sir|riS
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by monaio
(f4) Go Alien (f5) Go Human (f6) Talk Binds (f7) Name Binds
(f4) Alien Classes (f5) Alien Builds
Sir|WoGoMo joined the aliens
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
sasaki koasahiaki was sawn by Sir|riS
Sir|riS got too close to the overmind
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by Merry Christmas
sasaki koasahiaki called a vote: Set the next map to 'atcshd'
[A] (Bercik[PL][[Official]) (Red Base): om
Overmind built by Nuwanda
Nuwanda was clawed by TEAMMATE UnnamedPlayer's Marauder
Sir|riS was clawed by UnnamedPlayer's Marauder
Nuwanda couldn't escape Sir|riS's grenade
sasaki koasahiaki couldn't escape Sir|riS's grenade
Overmind built by Nuwanda
Overmind DESTROYED by Nuwanda
Vote failed (1 - 2)
Sir|WoGoMo left the aliens
(f4) Go Alien (f5) Go Human (f6) Talk Binds (f7) Name Binds
(f4) Alien Classes (f5) Alien Builds
Sir|WoGoMo joined the aliens
(1) Overmind (2) Egg (3) Acid Tube (4) Baricade (5) Trapper (6) Booster (7)
Hive
[H] Sir|riS: dont use spec
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by monaio
[H] Sir|riS: to go builder
There is no room to build here
[H] Sir|riS: thats bannable offense
Overmind built by Sir|WoGoMo
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by Merry Christmas
[H] Sir|riS: sir wogolamer
Nuwanda was mass driven by Merry Christmas
[A] (Sir|WoGoMo) (Red Base): om building... defend
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas was clawed by UnnamedPlayer's Marauder
work was clawed by UnnamedPlayer's Marauder
Trapper built by Nuwanda
The Overmind cannot control any more structures
Sir|riS was clawed by UnnamedPlayer's Marauder
The Overmind cannot control any more structures
[A] (Bercik[PL][[Official]) (Red Base): 1k
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by monaio
Egg built by Sir|WoGoMo
Trapper built by Nuwanda, replacing Egg
[A] (Bercik[PL][[Official]) (Red Side Entrance): trappers
sasaki koasahiaki felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
UnnamedPlayer felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
sasaki koasahiaki was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer
cannon
sasaki koasahiaki was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer
cannon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
{FSW}Paul. connected
This location is too close to the enemy to evolve
work was chomped by Bercik[PL][[Official]'s Dragoon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Egg built by Nuwanda, replacing Acid Tube
UnnamedPlayer felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
sasaki koasahiaki was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer
cannon
Sir|WoGoMo was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Sir|WoGoMo was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
sasaki koasahiaki was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer
cannon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
UnnamedPlayer felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
Trapper built by Nuwanda, replacing Acid Tube
Merry Christmas should have used a medkit against Sir|WoGoMo's poison
{FSW}Paul. entered the game
sasaki koasahiaki was mass driven by monaio
work should have gotten out of the way of UnnamedPlayer's Tyrant
Sir|riS was mauled by Bercik[PL][[Official]'s Tyrant
monaio should have gotten out of the way of UnnamedPlayer's Tyrant
Spider. connected
[H] Sir|riS: campers/cheaters s3
Merry Christmas should have used a medkit against sasaki koasahiaki's poison
Trapper built by Nuwanda
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
[A] (Bercik[PL][[Official]) (Red Base): hives
sasaki koasahiaki was chaingunned by monaio
Sir|riS was mauled by UnnamedPlayer's Tyrant
{FSW}Paul. disconnected
Sir|riS was mauled by UnnamedPlayer's Tyrant
Spider. entered the game
monaio was mauled by Bercik[PL][[Official]'s Tyrant
sasaki koasahiaki was machinegunned by Sir|riS
Spider. joined the humans
Hive built by Nuwanda, replacing Barricade
sasaki koasahiaki was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer
cannon
Sir|riS was mauled by UnnamedPlayer's Tyrant
Bercik[PL][[Official] felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
Merry Christmas should have used a medkit against UnnamedPlayer's poison
work was mauled by sasaki koasahiaki's Tyrant
Sir|WoGoMo was machinegunned by Sir|riS
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Sir|riS was hunted down by the swarm
Net_Giant connected
Spider. was mauled by Bercik[PL][[Official]'s Tyrant
Henzo! connected
Sir|WoGoMo felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Henzo! entered the game
Net_Giant entered the game
Sir|WoGoMo felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Net_Giant joined the humans
Bercik[PL][[Official] was lasgunned by Sir|riS
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Spider.
Hive built by Nuwanda, replacing Trapper
monaio was mauled by UnnamedPlayer's Tyrant
disconnected
Sir|WoGoMo was lasgunned by Sir|riS
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
You cannot spawn as a Marauder
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Spider.
Egg built by Nuwanda, replacing Trapper
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Net_Giant
Henzo! disconnected
Sir|WoGoMo was machinegunned by Net_Giant
Net_Giant was hunted down by the swarm
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Hive built by Nuwanda, replacing Egg
monaio was mauled by sasaki koasahiaki's Tyrant
sasaki koasahiaki felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
Sir|WoGoMo felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
(1) Overmind (2) Egg (3) Acid Tube (4) Baricade (5) Trapper (6) Booster (7)
Hive
Must be living to use this command
Bercik[PL][[Official] felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Bercik[PL][[Official] felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
Sir|WoGoMo was chaingunned by Sir|riS
(1) Overmind (2) Egg (3) Acid Tube (4) Baricade (5) Trapper (6) Booster (7)
Hive
Must be living to use this command
Trapper built by Nuwanda, replacing Trapper
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Bercik[PL][[Official] was chaingunned by Sir|riS
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
Sir|riS should have used a medkit against Sir|WoGoMo's poison
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by monaio
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by monaio
Bercik[PL][[Official] felt the full force of Sir|riS's lucifer cannon
Merry Christmas was hunted down by the swarm
monaio felt the full force of TEAMMATE Sir|riS's lucifer cannon
Sir|riS irradiated himself
Bercik[PL][[Official] was caught in the fallout of Sir|riS's lucifer cannon
Egg built by Nuwanda
Spider. should have used a medkit against Sir|WoGoMo's poison
Sir|riS was hunted down by the swarm
Nuwanda felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
Egg built by Nuwanda, replacing Trapper
[H] Sir|riS: even cheating cant make losers like wogomo win
[A] (Nuwanda) (Red Base): BASE/INCOMING!!!
Merry Christmas was hunted down by the swarm
Bercik[PL][[Official] was caught in the fallout of monaio's lucifer cannon
monaio was bitten by Sir|WoGoMo
Sir|riS was hunted down by the swarm
Sir|WoGoMo was sawn by Spider.
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
(1) Granger (2) Drech (3) Basilisk (4) Marauder (5) Dragoon (6) Tyrant
sasaki koasahiaki was sawn by Spider.
Spider. was pounced upon by Nuwanda's Dragoon
Bercik[PL][[Official] was machinegunned by Net_Giant
Nuwanda felt the full force of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
sasaki koasahiaki was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer
cannon
Sir|WoGoMo was caught in the fallout of Merry Christmas's lucifer cannon
sasaki koasahiaki disconnected
Humans win
Bercik[PL][Official] disconnected
[H] Sir|riS: gg cheaters
]who?
[A] Sir|WoGoMo: who?
[H] Sir|riS: you
]wat???
[H] Sir|riS: going spec to get builder
[A] Sir|WoGoMo: wat???
[H] Sir|riS: aka fail
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir|Anonymoose entered the game
camper's insurance entered the game
Merry Christmas entered the game
inglarg entered the game
Sir|WoGoMo entered the game
Nuwanda entered the game
Net_Giant entered the game
Sir|riS entered the game
Si_mononoke entered the game
Nuwanda joined the humans
monaio entered the game
]/m anonymoose who the fuck is sir|ris?
Private message: who the fuck is sir|ris?
sent to 1 player
Merry Christmas joined the aliens
Spider. entered the game
Nuwanda was bitten by Merry Christmas
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: if i cheated u wldnt stand a chance
YOMAN connected
Nuwanda was bitten by Merry Christmas
YOMAN entered the game
YOMAN joined the aliens
Spider. disconnected
]\r_fullscreen 0
Aelita connected
Merry Christmas was gunned down by a turret
Aelita entered the game
Aelita joined the humans
YOMAN was machinegunned by Aelita
monaio disconnected
[S] Sir|riS: going spec in order to get builder is lame
[S] Sir|riS: in other words, its cheating
Nuwanda was bitten by Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas was gunned down by a turret
]huh?
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: huh?
]no its not
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: no its not
[S] Sir|riS: yes it is
]nothing wrong with it
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: nothing wrong with it
work timed out
[S] Sir|riS: lol
[S] Sir|riS: there is a lot wrong with it
Aelita was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
YOMAN was machinegunned by Aelita
]well it would be really stupid to just let humans destroy your base
Nuwanda was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: well it would be really stupid to just let humans destroy
your base
Net_Giant disconnected
YOMAN was gunned down by a turret
Nuwanda was bitten by YOMAN
[S] Sir|riS: no
]anyway u're a troll. nothing more
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: anyway u're a troll. nothing more
[S] Sir|riS: thats how it works
Nuwanda was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
[S] Sir|riS: abusing spectator to get a builder is cheating
Aelita was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
]and you're not even in sir
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: and you're not even in sir
]so stfu
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: so stfu[S] Sir|riS: just like going spectator when a basilisk grabs you
]and remove the tag
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: and remove the tag
[A] YOMAN: what is builder :D
[S] Sir|riS: and this is not your clantaqg
[S] Sir|riS: its Sirris
[S] Sir|riS: tard
]Sir| is my clan tag
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: Sir| is my clan tag
]and u are using it
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: and u are using it
[S] Sir|riS: i dont give a shit, you just a cheater clan
SX yoo-Ooo connected
[S] Sir|riS: anyhow, ill get this sorted
YOMAN was machinegunned by Nuwanda
SX yoo-Ooo entered the game
]\r_fullscreen 1
SX yoo-Ooo joined the aliens
YOMAN was gunned down by a turret
]boo hoo im so sad. anyway troll. u need to learn how to behave.
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: boo hoo im so sad. anyway troll. u need to learn how to
behave.
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Aelita
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Nuwanda
[S] Sir|riS: says the one abusing spectator to get a builder
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Nuwanda
[S] Sir|riS: really now
YOMAN was gunned down by Aelita
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Nuwanda
[S] Sir|Anonymoose: ris grow up faggot
Nuwanda was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: yes grow up.
Nuwanda was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
Aelita was bitten by SX yoo-Ooo
YOMAN was gunned down by Nuwanda
Nuwanda was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
Aelita was pounced upon by Merry Christmas's Dragoon
Sir|Anonymoose joined the humans
Sir|Anonymoose left the humans
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Aelita
[S] Sir|Anonymoose: bbl
YOMAN was gunned down by Nuwanda
[S] Sir|WoGoMo: bb moose
Sir|Anonymoose disconnected
YOMAN was gunned down by Nuwanda
YOMAN was gunned down by Nuwanda
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Nuwanda
YOMAN was gunned down by Nuwanda
SX yoo-Ooo was gunned down by Nuwanda
]/condump lasgunguy.txt
Dumped console text to lasgunguy.txt.
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I remember QVM where it was impossible to join spectators while grabbed by basi.
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Well to clarify, I wasnt even involved in a fight at the time I went spec. I was comfortable in base and just spawned, noticing the OM was down, I went to spec and rejoined as a builder.
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You went spectator in order to circumvent a gameplay mechanic. You cannot evolve from a Dretch into a Granger, so in order to get a Granger you have to die, not go spectator and then respawn as a granger. You can act all innocent here, but on the server you surely took a far more firm stance on this subject. Always good to see how getting things out in the open changes people's behaviour.
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Always good to see how getting things out in the open changes people's behaviour.
Well, since we're all whiny-complaining today, lets see how the admins respond to your Clan Tag impersonation STEALING.
Tag stealing ban, for reference. (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=15006.0)
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I remember QVM where it was impossible to join spectators while grabbed by basi.
Indeed. I wrote that patch. I'm not fond of 'abusing' /team but I wouldn't call it cheating either.
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Indeed. I wrote that patch. I'm not fond of 'abusing' /team but I wouldn't call it cheating either.
Well you should have taught me better when I was still in wrath's :)
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I remember QVM where it was impossible to join spectators while grabbed by basi.
Indeed. I wrote that patch. I'm not fond of 'abusing' /team but I wouldn't call it cheating either.
Oh yeah! It was your QVM. Yes, we need that to servers! Then people will abuse /reconnect (most likely, not :D).
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All I want to know if this is accept behaviour, because if it is, I am binding /team s to a special key to save me from those special situations I rather not be in.
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easiest solution would be add a 20 sec or so timer on /team then they can go into spec but they got to wait out the timeout if they want to rejoin a team
is it cheating prob not is it a lame thing to do yes
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@WoGoMo: This thread is about you cheating, not about me naming myself after one of the cats we had.
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I don't really see a problem in leaving your team and then rejoining to spawn as a granger but leaving your team to escape basi grab is kind of cheap
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@WoGoMo: This thread is about you cheating, not about me naming myself after one of the cats we had.
[S] Sir|riS: and this is not your clantaqg
[S] Sir|riS: its Sirris
[S] Sir|riS: tard
@Lava Croft: I neither know nor care about your cats. And since you have opened a door here, I dont see any problem in me highlighting you stealing our clan tag during your whining session. You could very well have chosen the name "Sirris" or SirriS for all I care, but you chose to use the "|" character after the first 3 characters in an obvious but fail/self-contradictory attempt at trolling the clan.
I'd say if you have nothing constructive to say about this, you should just stfu and stop being such a jackass.
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IMO is's abusing a flaw in the system, which is cheating. It's exactly the same as why /kill got it's timer.
Should I ever see someone doing it, I'd tell them to stop / kick them if they didn't.
The rules are quite clear in not being absolute and allowing common sense, and this is quite obviously dickish at the least.
IMO the only time this sort of thing should be allowed is if you accidentally drop a nade in your base.
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Should I ever see someone doing it, I'd tell them to stop / kick them if they didn't.
The rules are quite clear in not being absolute and allowing common sense, and this is quite obviously dickish at the least.
The rules are guidelines. Use common sense and fairness,accept that there isn't one of us who won't screw up at one point or another and accept your lumps as we all will.
Then the rules should state it more clearly. Too much room for interpretation is not a good thing IMO. For the record, I've never even been warned about this.
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/team s could be counted as a death if your health is not 100%. The build timer should not reset just because you switch team.
Easy to implement and fixes the problem.
(If anyone would do /team s to get rid of a basilisk I would personally kick them)
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I think /team s should remove all your credits/evos and score. The point of /team s is so you can stop playing trem. Why would it ever be used for something else (and not call it cheating)? Also, I thought you couldn't /team s/a/h while you had a build timer?
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I think /team s should remove all your credits/evos and score. The point of /team s is so you can stop playing trem. Why would it ever be used for something else (and not call it cheating)? Also, I thought you couldn't /team s/a/h while you had a build timer?
TBH I even have an EXAMPLE of why you could use it and have it not be a lame thing to do:
Yesterday on UTCS I accidentally pressed my nadespam bind instead of my buy jetpack bind while building base in the thing up top (I had moved there at S1 :D ) (on my MacBook Pro the nadespam bind is Func+F8). However, that was my OLD buy jetpack bind. I have no clue why I did that. It would have quit. Anyways, I went spec given I had (thought I had) left a nade on the medi. So I quickly typed in /team s and got that nade to disappear. Turns out it was unnecessary as it had fallen through one of the small holes :P But still, that's a reason /team s is a fine thing to use.
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TBH I even have an EXAMPLE of why you could use it and have it not be a lame thing to do:
Yesterday on UTCS I accidentally pressed my nadespam bind instead of my buy jetpack bind while building base in the thing up top (I had moved there at S1 :D ) (on my MacBook Pro the nadespam bind is Func+F8). However, that was my OLD buy jetpack bind. I have no clue why I did that. It would have quit. Anyways, I went spec given I had (thought I had) left a nade on the medi. So I quickly typed in /team s and got that nade to disappear. Turns out it was unnecessary as it had fallen through one of the small holes :P But still, that's a reason /team s is a fine thing to use.
You could just not nadespam in the first place. That's a very, very weak argument for instant spectator.
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I think /team s should remove all your credits/evos and score. The point of /team s is so you can stop playing trem. Why would it ever be used for something else (and not call it cheating)? Also, I thought you couldn't /team s/a/h while you had a build timer?
TBH I even have an EXAMPLE of why you could use it and have it not be a lame thing to do:
Yesterday on UTCS I accidentally pressed my nadespam bind instead of my buy jetpack bind while building base in the thing up top (I had moved there at S1 :D ) (on my MacBook Pro the nadespam bind is Func+F8). However, that was my OLD buy jetpack bind. I have no clue why I did that. It would have quit. Anyways, I went spec given I had (thought I had) left a nade on the medi. So I quickly typed in /team s and got that nade to disappear. Turns out it was unnecessary as it had fallen through one of the small holes :P But still, that's a reason /team s is a fine thing to use.
This appears to be nothing but incomprehensible noise. It sounds like the best way around that particular situation is to, you know, not have a nadespam bind...
the only time i can think of that someone using /team s deserves to hang onto credits/evos is if they happen to be an admin investigating a problematic player, but since i don't necessarily trust the majority of admins not to abuse, even this isn't a solid case.
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/team s could be counted as a death if your health is not 100%. The build timer should not reset just because you switch team.
Easy to implement and fixes the problem.
(If anyone would do /team s to get rid of a basilisk I would personally kick them)
I agree. Shortly before I left ripeflesh was using /team s binds to avoid dying as a human. I didnt really bother to yell at him then. If tremstats mean that much 2 you, why not be happy?
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I've kicked and handed some short 1-day bans for it before and I will do so in the future if I see anyone doing it. It is as much abusing the gameplay mechanics as glitch-building or anything else.
WoGoMo thinking it's perfectly OK to do so makes him quite a fool indeed.
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Personally I'm thinking that you could be let to go spec whenever you like but you have to wait like 30 seconds before you can teamchange again. Seems much easier than trying to nail down every abuse case and preventing it only then.
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I've kicked and handed some short 1-day bans for it before and I will do so in the future if I see anyone doing it. It is as much abusing the gameplay mechanics as glitch-building or anything else.
WoGoMo thinking it's perfectly OK to do so makes him quite a fool indeed.
Honestly now. How was I to know since I've seen it being done countless times even with admins present, and nobody thought to say anything.
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I've kicked and handed some short 1-day bans for it before and I will do so in the future if I see anyone doing it. It is as much abusing the gameplay mechanics as glitch-building or anything else.
WoGoMo thinking it's perfectly OK to do so makes him quite a fool indeed.
Honestly now. How was I to know since I've seen it being done countless times even with admins present, and nobody thought to say anything.
By using common sense. There isn't a possibility to devolve in the game is there? The /team <a/h/s> binds are not supposed to be a part of gameplay, just means of getting into a team, or do you disagree?
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https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4879
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I would say when switching teams, theres a 5 second countdown on your HUD and it gets cancelled if you take damage. You join the specified team instantly if you are dead or on spectators team.
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https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4879
Sounds good, thanks.
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i cant see the problem with using it to come back as granger, simply because it was the easiest option at the time, i am sure if he was near one of those "wrong places" he would have used that way, either method would have had little effect on the outcome of that 'oh so serious' public game.
using it to escape from dying or escaping basilisks, well that is just low.
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Sir|riS?
L0L i love it!
Excellent way to parody a clan!
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https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4879
looks fine to me should solve this issue
lavas alias isnt what this thread is about if you want to talk about that why not make a nice new thread
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Sir|riS?
L0L i love it!
Excellent way to parody a clan!
Glad you can see it. Which only proves my point.
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By using common sense. There isn't a possibility to devolve in the game is there? The /team <a/h/s> binds are not supposed to be a part of gameplay, just means of getting into a team, or do you disagree?
I may disagree with that being regarded as a cheat. If I am guilty of anything, it is lazyness, not bad intent. However, I will abide by whatever the powers that be decide. In any case it seems like the matter will be resolved soon with a patch to the server code. So there really isn't more to discuss is there?
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I'm afraid I cannot possibly see how someone could fail to understand that /team s was not meant to be a gameplay mechanic. Are people really this determined to use every available loophole in the game they can find? Why is lava (and others like him) so insistent on having a particular, special character delimited string in their name? Of course, I can't understand crouch-spam, the widespread (ab)use of the bbox-over-entity glitch for the same reason, but please, why?
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I'm afraid I cannot possibly see how someone could fail to understand that /team s was not meant to be a gameplay mechanic. Are people really this determined to use every available loophole in the game they can find? Why is lava (and others like him) so insistent on having a particular, special character delimited string in their name? Of course, I can't understand crouch-spam, the widespread (ab)use of the bbox-over-entity glitch for the same reason, but please, why?
You're right in the sense that /team s isnt a gameplay mechanic. But at the time I was not aiming to change gameplay in any way. I could have just easily gone to die on a ret or jump in front of a luci splash which would have been instantaneous anyway.
But yeah, common sense tells me that if it was wrong, admins would have at least warned me (as well as others) about it ages ago. Why then is this "common sense" among the admins only materializing now?
Anyway, I have after all agreed to abide by the ruling of the admins. It is fine by me.
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Sir|riS?
L0L i love it!
Excellent way to parody a clan!
CUNT!!!
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CUNT!!!
Relax. He's just a misguided kid who has taken it upon himself to launch a crusade against us every single little chance he gets.
Let him. The only thing he achieves is making himself look more ridiculous.
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i cant see the problem with using it to come back as granger, simply because it was the easiest option at the time, i am sure if he was near one of those "wrong places" he would have used that way, either method would have had little effect on the outcome of that 'oh so serious' public game.
using it to escape from dying or escaping basilisks, well that is just low.
The people who make this game are not clueless. The fact that you can not devolve from dretch to granger is a purposeful game design. Using a bind to rapidly switch teams could not by any means be considered not circumventing game mechanics, since that, is by definition, what you are doing, and thus by definition it is a cheat. This is aimed at anyone who reads this.
And @ F50, while it is nice to imagine, I would consider it naive for an admin or dev not to imagine some players will do everything they can to advantage themselves.
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Sir|riS?
L0L i love it!
Excellent way to parody a clan!
CUNT!!!
realize that parodies are all fun and games.
CUNT!!!
Relax. He's just a misguided kid who has taken it upon himself to launch a crusade against us every single little chance he gets.
Let him. The only thing he achieves is making himself look more ridiculous.
Crusade?
I AM THE WAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFJLjA6haZI)
i cant see the problem with using it to come back as granger, simply because it was the easiest option at the time, i am sure if he was near one of those "wrong places" he would have used that way, either method would have had little effect on the outcome of that 'oh so serious' public game.
using it to escape from dying or escaping basilisks, well that is just low.
The people who make this game are not clueless. The fact that you can not devolve from dretch to granger is a purposeful game design. Using a bind to rapidly switch teams could not by any means be considered not circumventing game mechanics, since that, is by definition, what you are doing, and thus by definition it is a cheat. This is aimed at anyone who reads this.
And @ F50, while it is nice to imagine, I would consider it naive for an admin or dev not to imagine some players will do everything they can to advantage themselves.
This
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Geez. Cant believe this. A full day and people are still debating this.
Ok then if it means that much to you, go ahead and think of me as some evil cheater.
There, happy now? Move on and get a life. Oh.... and harden the fuck up. :)
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did i say thing about you? no.
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did i say thing about you? no.
Wasnt replying to you. Get over yourself.
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https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4879
Thank you very much!
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THE SYSTEM WORKS!
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Wasnt replying to you. Get over yourself.
how was i suppose to tell? it didn't have quotes and came right after mine.
that makes me full of myself?
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how was i suppose to tell? it didn't have quotes and came right after mine.
that makes me full of myself?
Well, the fact that you didn't say anything about me should have tipped you off.
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Well, the fact that you didn't say anything about me should have tipped you off.
indeed.
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And @ F50, while it is nice to imagine, I would consider it naive for an admin or dev not to imagine some players will do everything they can to advantage themselves.
Its not that I cannot imagine it, I just can't understand it. I understand that people do this, but not why.
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For the same reason that they bot.
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For the same reason that they bot.
I cannot speak on behalf of others who have done this, but if it occured to me that /team s had any other advantages than any other quick way of dying such as from a ret or wrong place, I would not even have done this. This is why I've never used /team s if I've already evolved into anything other than a dretch. I'd just rather go kill someone/something and die there.
Another reason why I did this (EDIT: as opposed to /kill) was only so that tremstats wouldn't report my favourite target as myself (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1p6/player_details.php?player_id=9882) since so many idiots with extremely bad building skills love to join aliens.
That being said, to ask a teammate to kill you (such as what I see many human players doing a lot when there is no arm) so that you can respawn as a builder is EXACTLY THE SAME. Dretches can't do this because of dretch punt. I've personally never done this but I've been asked to kill a teammate on just too many occasions. (EDIT: If you're going to ban someone for using /team s, to be fair this should be banned as well.)
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...
That being said, to ask a teammate to kill you (such as what I see many human players doing a lot when there is no arm) so that you can respawn as a builder is EXACTLY THE SAME. Dretches can't do this because of dretch punt. I've personally never done this but I've been asked to kill a teammate on just too many occasions. (EDIT: If you're going to ban someone for using /team s, to be fair this should be banned as well.)
teamkilling is a part of the gameplay asking your teammate to kill you is valid "/team" is for changing teams not devolving
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teamkilling is a part of the gameplay asking your teammate to kill you is valid "/team" is for changing teams not devolving
Thus asking a teammate to kill you is abusing gameplay mechanism loopholes.
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teamkilling is a part of the gameplay asking your teammate to kill you is valid "/team" is for changing teams not devolving
Thus (EDIT: asking a teammate to kill you is) abusing gameplay mechanism loopholes.
No one in a basi grab has time to ask a teammate to kill them before the basi's already done enough damage that they still receive the kill, it's a gameplay mechanic and results in the death of the player, are you bright enough to "get" this now or do you need some more reasons why it's not the same as /team s?
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No one in a basi grab has time to ask a teammate to kill them before the basi's already done enough damage that they still receive the kill, it's a gameplay mechanic and results in the death of the player, are you bright enough to "get" this now or do you need some more reasons why it's not the same as /team s?
We're not talking about basi grab here if you're bright enough to "get" that. We're talking about people in base when there's no enemy near enough to get to them. As for using /team s for escaping basi grab, I totally agree it is wrong and I've never ever done (nor would I ever do) that.
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Ok since a lot of people dont seem to understand, let me explain:
The only valid reasons I can think of that /team s in THIS situation (again, if you are unclear about what situation I am talking about, go read from a few replies above this one) should be considered illegal, is by denying the other team of credits or evos from killing you, OR denying the other team an extra 20 seconds to kill your base while you wait for the suicide countdown to get to zero.
In this instance suicide by TK is EXACTLY the same. If using /team s is considered abuse in THIS case, suicide by TK is equally a case of ABUSE.
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Suicide by tk is a game mechanic, suicide by /team s is not. Utilitarians...Only concerned with the consequences...
In all seriousness though:
Its about what is playing the game, and what is not. It is part of the gameplay rules, part of the lore of tremulous if I may say so, that people who die are respawned battlestar galatica style. It is also part of game lore that aliens cannot devolve. Thus, I could totally imagine aliens (and humans!) actually tking each other were tremulous real life. TKing is part of the game. /team s is part of the metagame. There is no need to confuse the two.
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Suicide by tk is a game mechanic, suicide by /team s is not. Utilitarians...Only concerned with the consequences...
Doesn't make it any less a form of abuse now does it.
Aliens are meant to kill humans are they not? Humans are meant to kill aliens are they not?
Intentional TK is an offence is it not?
Stop making loopholes legal only when it suits your own needs.
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Aliens are meant to kill humans are they not? Humans are meant to kill aliens are they not?
Intentional TK is an offence is it not?
Stop making loopholes legal only when it suits your own needs.
Humans are able to, by using their in-game weapon, kill other humans. Yes, TKing is an offense insofar as TKing is a form of griefing, since it is listed as a subset of griefing according to the sticky. However, in the semi-rare case in which TKing is not griefing, then I think it would be natural to say that TKing is not an offense.
Furthermore, aliens are meant to help each other, and humans are meant to help each other. In-game, since killing your teammates is not lethal, as evidenced in the story (humans are clones, aliens have the overmind), it makes perfect sense (to me, anyways) that helping each other can in fact including tearing your teammate's body to shreds.
To be honest, speed-building does feel a bit "cheap" to me from a gameplay perspective (but not from a story perspective) due to the fact that it can go around the build timer given a clear spawn queue. However, there are some, admittedly small, penalties to doing so (but great enough to prevent people from doing this in scrims in most situations, apparently) and there are not a great many situations that it even can be used in, thanks to the BP queue. More importantly (and the reason I bring this up) is that even this is different from the metagame (such as /team s) however, because it is part of the implicit rules of gameplay, part of the in-game, and makes sense apart from the concepts of computer and player.
Its not about how the pieces sit in the end, or whether you win or loose, but how the game was played.
EDIT:
Also,
But yeah, common sense tells me that if it was wrong, admins would have at least warned me (as well as others) about it ages ago. Why then is this "common sense" among the admins only materializing now?
I think its mostly because it wasn't noticed, since a big yellow !specme isn't printed across the screen. For some reason this didn't happen when people had to use the !specme command, I wonder why this practice is only materializing now...
Stop making loopholes legal only when it suits your own needs.
These are merely my preconceptions, desires, and ideas that I'm forming language to give voice to, keep it straight ;D.
Disclaimer: my opinions are my own
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Stop making loopholes legal only when it suits your own needs.
These are merely my preconceptions, desires, and ideas that I'm forming language to give voice to, keep it straight ;D.
I stand corrected. :)
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There are 4 kinds of TKs in trem.
Griefing: killing a teammate to annoy them.
Natural: Turning a corner just to have a lusi hit you.
Intended/Required: both the TK'd and TKer, intended and or needed a teammate dead.
Independent: something that is a mix or beyond a standard Tk and may involve something outside trem.
death and TK are game mechanics, /team s is a game TOOL intended to switch teams and not bypass death or other mechanics
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My point is, humans can't change their weapon from rifle to ckit without the help of an armory. So in order to get around that limitation in game play, players sometimes ask teammates to TK them so that they can get a builder faster instead of using /kill.
If using /team s to leave the team and rejoin as builder is not legal, then neither should intentional tk in order to gain a builder when they respawn. In other words, the weapons that humans have are there for a purpose: to kill aliens and their buildables, not as a cheap shortcut to gain a builder when your team is fucked.
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We're not talking about basi grab here if you're bright enough to "get" that. We're talking about people in base when there's no enemy near enough to get to them. As for using /team s for escaping basi grab, I totally agree it is wrong and I've never ever done (nor would I ever do) that.
Where's the difference? both exploit a function that's external to gameplay to work around an intended limitation, besides, the current proposed fix fixes both offences.
TKs are different, they're not instant, they require teamwork, they hand points to the enemy if the victim has taken damage from the enemy prior to the TK, they are something that's possible using gameplay mechanics.
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TKs are different, they're not instant, they require teamwork, they hand points to the enemy if the victim has taken damage from the enemy prior to the TK, they are something that's possible using gameplay mechanics.
If that is so, why then is there a /kill command for suicide with timer there? Humans do not heal on their own, and dying from /kill still gives the previous attacker points. To me this sort of TK is only a way to exploit weaknesses in gameplay mechanics to give yourself an advantage instead of having to wait 20 secs.
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I can see you're struggling here. a TK is fairly quick, but only when someone knows you want it and is around to cause it, /kill is for emergencies where there's no one to, for instance, unstick you. Why do you think /kill has a timer if you feel that transporting yourself out of the game and back in again in a split second is entirely reasonable, do you suppose it might be because it has potential for abuse by people trying to rob an alien of its kill, even if you only use it to become a builder quickly?
Anyway, none of this matters, a 30sec limit on teamswitching, as proposed, will solve both issues.
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My point is, humans can't change their weapon from rifle to ckit without the help of an armory. So in order to get around that limitation in game play, players sometimes ask teammates to TK them so that they can get a builder faster instead of using /kill.
If using /team s to leave the team and rejoin as builder is not legal, then neither should intentional tk in order to gain a builder when they respawn. In other words, the weapons that humans have are there for a purpose: to kill aliens and their buildables, not as a cheap shortcut to gain a builder when your team is fucked.
its not about the end result, its about how you get there.
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I think its mostly because it wasn't noticed, since a big yellow !specme isn't printed across the screen. For some reason this didn't happen when people had to use the !specme command, I wonder why this practice is only materializing now...
People never had to use the !specme command; it was always redundant.
If using /team s to leave the team and rejoin as builder is not legal, then neither should intentional tk in order to gain a builder when they respawn. In other words, the weapons that humans have are there for a purpose: to kill aliens and their buildables, not as a cheap shortcut to gain a builder when your team is fucked.
That argument implicitly relies on friendly fire (and suicide) being a completely overlooked game mechanic, which is clearly false.
If that is so, why then is there a /kill command for suicide with timer there? Humans do not heal on their own, and dying from /kill still gives the previous attacker points. To me this sort of TK is only a way to exploit weaknesses in gameplay mechanics to give yourself an advantage instead of having to wait 20 secs.
The suicide timer guarantees a minimum time between deciding to die and dying, which is inherent in being killed by a teammate.
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My argument is based upon the idea that since g_dretchPunt is always on there exists no way of having teammates from kill you should the need arise. Unless there exists another option to use, then there is no level playing field here. I doubt very much that g_dretchPunt was made as a mechanism to prevent dretches from quickly dying and respawning as a granger should the need arise.
It is as simple as that! No struggling is needed to grasp the fact that there is a huge problem here. Yet, so many here are more in favor of a game balance more biased towards humans. Humans already have at least 3 options at hand (unless I've left out any): Wrong Place, Falling from gravity, TK. Two out of three which can never happen to a dretch.
Since this team switch patch will probably go into trem soon, I foresee the balance is going to be even further biased towards humans.
Why do you think /kill has a timer if you feel that transporting yourself out of the game and back in again in a split second is entirely reasonable, do you suppose it might be because it has potential for abuse by people trying to rob an alien of its kill, even if you only use it to become a builder quickly?
For the same reason that you said that /kill is only for emergencies when there's nobody around to kill you. In case you haven't noticed dretches cannot be killed by teammates, and going spec is not without a time penalty. There is still a spawn queue when you get back into the team. And sometimes when the team is full, you have to wait much much longer to rejoin. It is not as you say a "split second" thing.
Anyway, none of this matters, a 30sec limit on teamswitching, as proposed, will solve both issues.
The 30 second limit on teamswitching does not solve human players escaping basi grab using /team s unless you are grabbed within much less than 30 seconds of joining a team which is not very likely.
If using /team s to leave the team and rejoin as builder is not legal, then neither should intentional tk in order to gain a builder when they respawn. In other words, the weapons that humans have are there for a purpose: to kill aliens and their buildables, not as a cheap shortcut to gain a builder when your team is fucked.
That argument implicitly relies on friendly fire (and suicide) being a completely overlooked game mechanic, which is clearly false.
Not really. How did you come to that conclusion? There's currently no way to tk a dretch when there clearly should be. Dretch punt was incorporated only to solve the problem of accidental TK, not intentional TK.
If that is so, why then is there a /kill command for suicide with timer there? Humans do not heal on their own, and dying from /kill still gives the previous attacker points. To me this sort of TK is only a way to exploit weaknesses in gameplay mechanics to give yourself an advantage instead of having to wait 20 secs.
The suicide timer guarantees a minimum time between deciding to die and dying, which is inherent in being killed by a teammate.
It doesnt take 20 seconds to kill a teammate.
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as wogo said. a 30 second teamswitch timer wont change much, people can still use /team s to cheat death (and basilisks).
sometimes i get a phonecall or something and to save face i use /team s, in times like this, it is nice to be able to go to spectator without delay, regardless of the situation.
i think this whole thing is a very minor problem that doesn't need to be solved.
the worst use for /team s would have to be to escape basi grab or escape death. adding a 30 second delay wouldn't change much there, people could also just as easily use a /quit or /disconnect bind.
and to use it to change to a granger, im sure it would still be quicker than 20 seconds to use /disconnect then rejoin and continue.
now i pity anyone who is pathetic enough to actually use /team s or /disconnect or /quit to avoid death, but i am merely trying to point out why attempting to STOP people using this 'unethical' method of going from dretch to granger is unnecessary and will probably cause more annoyance than good.
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I thought that being locked out of your team for 30seconds + spawn queue delay might cause some considerable frustration, especially if the team's in the middle of a rush or defending from one, but admittedly a statwhore isn't likely to care, as long as they avoided death.
So, removal of credits or evos, instant donation of kill value to the opposite team?
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I thought that being locked out of your team for 30seconds + spawn queue delay might cause some considerable frustration, especially if the team's in the middle of a rush or defending from one, but admittedly a statwhore isn't likely to care, as long as they avoided death.
So, removal of credits or evos, instant donation of kill value to the opposite team?
Lol. This is getting even more and more ridiculous. Well, anyway, the 30 second time limit for team change does nothing really. I sometimes go to spec when I receive a phone call regardless of what class I am. Donation of credits in any form whatsoever is even more retarded. Most people leave their team when it seems that they're about to lose. So, LOL... Donating their credits to the winning team will fix ALL problems.
(Dont think I have laughed this hard since this silly thread was started)
EDIT: On the other hand, removal of credits, in the amount that the player is worth (e.g. 180 credits or equivalent for a dretch going to spec) wouldnt be so bad.
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Since this team switch patch will probably go into trem soon, I foresee the balance is going to be even further biased towards humans.
Haha. Now you're really at it, the patch will send balance to oblivion, surely!
Teamkilling isn't instant and has penalties, as is the case with every other method but /team s. Like it or not, it's not part of the gameplay.
How to suicide as a dretch quickly? Come on, you surely must have some imagination left in that brain of yours. The nearest human/turret/tesla helps a ton.
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A 30 second teamswitch timer wont change much, people can still use /team s to cheat death (and basilisks).
The current solution works, however, in that it prevents people from using /team s (since its better to use /kill generally) except in particularly audacious cases, which are much easier to notice (and kick for).
If using /team s to leave the team and rejoin as builder is not legal, then neither should intentional tk in order to gain a builder when they respawn. In other words, the weapons that humans have are there for a purpose: to kill aliens and their buildables, not as a cheap shortcut to gain a builder when your team is fucked.
That argument implicitly relies on friendly fire (and suicide) being a completely overlooked game mechanic, which is clearly false.
Not really. How did you come to that conclusion? There's currently no way to tk a dretch when there clearly should be. Dretch punt was incorporated only to solve the problem of accidental TK, not intentional TK.
You're just trying to find an edge case now. Dretches were having problems with accidentally getting TKed. It is far more beneficial, for dretches, to be unable to be TKed, than to be able to suicide very quickly (by teammate). Personally I'd like to see what would happen if dretchpunt wasn't always on, but I fear it would be annoying in general. Also, dretches can suicide (at almost no cost to themselves) in usually less than 10 seconds by turrets anyways. Furthermore, saying that in some cases (dretch) TKing was an annoyance that needed to be solved, does not at all negate the fact that "friendly fire (and suicide) is not a completely overlooked game mechanic".
In any case, the statement "I think we should be able to do X, therefore I'm going to circumvent the game to allow me to do X" is...not good.
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The current solution works, however, in that it prevents people from using /team s (since its better to use /kill generally) except in particularly audacious cases, which are much easier to notice (and kick for).
Works only if admins notice it. Which in most cases they probably wont.
In any case, the statement "I think we should be able to do X, therefore I'm going to circumvent the game to allow me to do X" is...not good.
Your words, not mine.
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i agree that /team s can be abused in all the ways touched on in this thread, but i do not think this need a 'fix' as it is not a very common problem, how often is this actually an issue? perhaps it should just be one of those against the rules things like glitch building, sure its possible but its not tolerated and it should be left to admins to deal with exploiters. any fix for this will more often be annoying when used legitimately than it will prevent exploitation of it.
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i agree that /team s can be abused in all the ways touched on in this thread, but i do not think this need a 'fix' as it is not a very common problem, how often is this actually an issue? perhaps it should just be one of those against the rules things like glitch building, sure its possible but its not tolerated and it should be left to admins to deal with exploiters. any fix for this will more often be annoying when used legitimately than it will prevent exploitation of it.
I am fine with using /kill and have been using it a lot from the time I began playin. In fact, I only started using /team s (only as dretch sitting comfortably in base usually just seconds after spawning btw) since probably around 3 months. Since then, none of the admins have warned me even though they clearly noticed it since they publicly said they were spectating me. In any case, the aforementioned pseudo-fix of 30 seconds between team switching isn't really necessary, as "/team s" is clearly too controversial to use now. For the game itself, I would rather they state it clearly in the rules. For myself, I'd rather just go die on a ret, use /kill or find other ways of dying rather than be called a cheater by people who clearly are unable to grasp that it is just an alternative way that doesn't affect gameplay (at least in the way that I use it).
As for Lava Croft's whining, he only does it to get back at me for calling him a dumbass (which he is for getting all worked up over what spectators say at the end of a game). He seems to have this problem with any spectator saying anything about the game even if it's for laughs and does not amount to spying or affect gameplay in any way (such as at the end of a game when one team wins).
More specifically, he gets all foamy-mouthed and abusive when I comment that there was a bad builder on the team he wasn't on, possibly because he has this chip on his shoulder and needs the world to think he only wins because he is uber-pro. I dont see why he has to get all riled up about it though, since he's actually a very good player on either humans or aliens. Perhaps he suffers from low self esteem and is overcompensating. :)
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are you forgetting that that 30 sec time will...
someone might take your player slot on humans OR humans will still have more players then aliens and you will be forced to join aliens!
why fix it?
a better question is why not fix it?
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Since you guys touched the topic if Tks, would/should tk'ing the builder to circumvent the build timer be something punishable by admins?
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Back in the day I used to see human builders jumping to death on transit a lot. IMO this and the TK thing are grey areas.
An easy fix for that would be to just say the build timer keeps ticking post-death and you can't join the spawn queue until it's done.
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Dretch punting can be turned on/off just like friendly fire.
And I'd like to see your proof for "[such and such largely unused cheat] is necessary for balance". If not for that, it's about time to lock this thread.
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Thank you, forum dwellers. This thread is all awesome now. Except it isn't.
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Dretch punting can be turned on/off just like friendly fire.
And I'd like to see your proof for "[such and such largely unused cheat] is necessary for balance". If not for that, it's about time to lock this thread.
I had mentioned about dretch punting, but I do not promote the idea of simply turning g_dretchPunt off, but instead to provide an alternative way of TKing dretches since TK to get a builder is such a widely used practice and is considered OK. Perhaps by allowing the dretch itself to choose whether their client-side dretch punting is on or off, such as, perhaps a cg_dretchPunt cvar. This would be similar to cg_unlagged in the sense that you can turn it off on the client side. This would be wonderful for balance.
As for using /team s for gaining a builder, as tremulant mentioned, the patch proposed on the bug tracker fixes this particular minor "problem" (but does not handle real abuse), but really if it means that much to everyone that a dretch isn't considered as having committed suicide by /team s, why not instead penalize by deducting credits in the amount the player is worth. This IMO would be more fair as the 30 sec timer does absolutely nothing for people who actually use it as a cheat to escape death.
As for your request for proof, read on below to the third point in my answer to SirDude. Balance is implied here since there is clearly an OBVIOUS advantage for humans.
And last but not least, although I do not exactly agree with the 30 second timer for /team switching, all I would like is for the RULES to CLEARLY state that using /team s to gain a builder is NOT OK, and is punishable with a kick or ban. This way, everyone will be clear and whoever else sees it happening can report it or at least alert the player who is doing it that it is wrong in case he doesn't know it.
are you forgetting that that 30 sec time will...
someone might take your player slot on humans OR humans will still have more players then aliens and you will be forced to join aliens!
why fix it?
a better question is why not fix it?
Firstly, it doesnt take 30 secs for someone to take up your slot. (EDIT: Consider for a moment that this so-called cheat will most likely be used when the team is on the losing side (or apparently so). A lot of players leave their team once they feel that all hope is lost. In this sense, you might actually gain a free slot rather than lose it).
Secondly, it is not a fix as it only prevents it from being used for 1 purpose only, whereas other purposes of /team s should be more seriously viewed as a cheat.
Thirdly, using /team s to gain a builder to my knowledge has only ever happened when aliens are being pounded and there is no overmind, only eggs. Almost all the players are dretches and as you know there is no way to TK a dretch. There is a CLEAR advantage here for humans caught in a similar situation (no arm or rc and most players on the team spawned as a rifle instead of a CKit).
In conclusion, the proposed "fix" really does nothing useful.
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Back in the day I used to see human builders jumping to death on transit a lot. IMO this and the TK thing are grey areas.
An easy fix for that would be to just say the build timer keeps ticking post-death and you can't join the spawn queue until it's done.
Sounds like a pretty good fix. Speed building by suicide is pretty low but I dont know if those who replied my arguments in previous posts will consider this as a cheat or not simply because it is a "gameplay mechanic".
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ok how about this, we remove /team s ALTOGETHER leaving nothing but /putteam and manual after death team switching.
there you happy? now it can't be abuse in any way possible.
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ok how about this, we remove /team s ALTOGETHER leaving nothing but /putteam and manual after death team switching.
there you happy? now it can't be abuse in any way possible.
LOL. I love you man.