Tremulous Forum

General => Feedback => Topic started by: SirDude on January 23, 2011, 09:29:12 am

Title: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 23, 2011, 09:29:12 am
I have realized that building mara proof bases that are also good at defending against other things very hard on maps like ATCS.

When building a base where the distances are just far enough away that zaps don't chain, people can and will make the zaps chain. Thus making good Base building very hard on maps like ATCS, this also makes building forwards harder as repairing can cause the whole forward damage.

This isn't game breaking but i still suggest that Zaps on buildings don't chain onto players and players cant chain to buildings. or that Teslas cancel out zap chains if the chain hits them receiving, preferably no damage but a great damage decrease is understandable.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Celestial_Rage on January 23, 2011, 10:04:17 am
Lock before trolling starts, please.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Qrntz on January 23, 2011, 11:24:06 am
Of course SirDude! We will work on removing all alien weapons as soon as we can!
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Anonymoose on January 23, 2011, 04:35:38 pm
must... not... comment... on another one of SirDude's 'i want to change everything' threads...
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on January 24, 2011, 07:29:21 am
That is rarely a *huge* problem in actual games, but it has certainly helped win the game several times for me. Tho I'd prefer zap chain damage to fall off linearly with distance, would solve this, and make human building better by not requiring near perfect placement for good unzappable bases. ATM a building being off by a meter can get the whole base destroyed, and there is no way for human builders to know if 2 buildings are far enough without trial and error or placing them significantly further than needed. Add to that cube shaped zap chain range...
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Thoth on January 24, 2011, 09:21:08 am
Lock before trolling starts, please.

Too late.

Of course SirDude! We will work on removing all alien weapons as soon as we can!

And yes, lets nerf the Aliens even more. Then we get to enjoy the "Humans are overpowered" topics.

Plus, your base doesn't defend itself. Your team is supposed to contribute a bit; especially with the new somewhat handicap turrets.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Asvarox on January 24, 2011, 05:46:01 pm
You do realize that aliens are meant to kill human bases?
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Lecavalier on January 24, 2011, 06:03:37 pm
You do realize that aliens are meant to kill human bases?
Yes, but obviously mara zap was not intended to be a base destroyer.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: David on January 24, 2011, 07:24:47 pm
Yes, but obviously mara zap was not intended to be a base destroyer.
That kinda is it's intended purpose.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: A Spork on January 24, 2011, 07:38:30 pm
Yes, but obviously mara zap was not intended to be a base destroyer.
That kinda is it's intended purpose.
Your sarcasm detector needs new batteries bro.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: David on January 24, 2011, 08:09:32 pm
/me didn't read the whole thread.

But whatever.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: swamp-cecil on January 24, 2011, 10:26:02 pm
How about we make a thrust suit that makes humans jump like a goon on top of the overmind with a painsaw!
Lock before trolling starts, please.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: condor on January 24, 2011, 10:34:33 pm
thrust suit

just read these words and say what the first thing that comes to mind  :D
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: swamp-cecil on January 24, 2011, 10:40:38 pm
thrust suit

just read these words and say what the first thing that comes to mind  :D
*swamp-cecil double falcon facepalm
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: condor on January 24, 2011, 10:50:34 pm
It's alien gangbang time!
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: swamp-cecil on January 24, 2011, 11:12:57 pm
It's granger gangbang time!
Fixed
i thought that psaws should have a 2m lunge ability with lots of damage and knockback with no charge, but with high recharge. But that would be kinda OP
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Celestial_Rage on January 24, 2011, 11:59:29 pm
thrust suit

just read these words and say what the first thing that comes to mind  :D

Rockets! Oh wait, that doesn't help.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 25, 2011, 12:31:24 am
Lock before trolling starts, please.

Too late.

Of course SirDude! We will work on removing all alien weapons as soon as we can!

And yes, lets nerf the Aliens even more. Then we get to enjoy the "Humans are overpowered" topics.

Plus, your base doesn't defend itself. Your team is supposed to contribute a bit; especially with the new somewhat handicap turrets.

did you even read my post? i said that in maps where bases are forced to be smaller (not so much that zap chains) where people being in your base will cause zaps to chain as they decrease the distance between turrets.


10$ says that if i used a different forum name, this thread would be taken more seriously.


That is rarely a *huge* problem in actual games, but it has certainly helped win the game several times for me. Tho I'd prefer zap chain damage to fall off linearly with distance, would solve this, and make human building better by not requiring near perfect placement for good unzappable bases. ATM a building being off by a meter can get the whole base destroyed, and there is no way for human builders to know if 2 buildings are far enough without trial and error or placing them significantly further than needed. Add to that cube shaped zap chain range...
THANK YOU! at least this guy got it...
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: condor on January 25, 2011, 12:47:30 am
(http://rlv.zcache.com/programmers_vs_universe_postcard-p239935283981610422qibm_400.jpg)

Use your brain for once in your life! It won't kill you (well maybe...)
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Tremulant on January 25, 2011, 01:28:26 am
10$ says that if i used a different forum name, this thread would be taken more seriously.
Heh, no, almost certainly not.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: condor on January 25, 2011, 01:46:29 am
If he complains this much about aliens in the GPP, I wonder what sort of nonsence he would have spouted if he ever played 1.1
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 25, 2011, 01:58:07 am
shut up, i was here just before 1.1.

Stop try to derail the topic.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Tremulant on January 25, 2011, 02:09:09 am
Stop try to derail the topic.
Erm, i hate to break it to you but this topic left the rails round about this point:
When building a base where the distances are just far enough away that zaps don't chain, people can and will make the zaps chain.
Don't stand idly by in base as a mara zap-rushes the place, don't stand infront of teslas, don't be an idiot, don't expect a base to be invincible, etc.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 25, 2011, 03:32:37 am
you don't get it. im not saying it isn't defended, I'm saying a DEFENDED one can compromise itself due to spacing!

this isn't about how a base can't defend against maras, its how one that is made to defend against one CAN be easily compromised from just having people in the base wither those people be defenders or builders. IE a good chunk of people defend by camping in between or on rets, thus making a zap chain possible. hell someone just running between 2 rets can cause a chain.


DL;DR being in a good anti-mara base can compromise it.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Lecavalier on January 25, 2011, 03:57:23 am
Yes, zap can chain from rets to humans. Yes, this makes building harder for humans. That's how the game is ; it isn't going to change
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: jm82792 on January 25, 2011, 04:20:39 am
you don't get it. im not saying it isn't defended, I'm saying a DEFENDED one can compromise itself due to spacing!

this isn't about how a base can't defend against maras, its how one that is made to defend against one CAN be easily compromised from just having people in the base wither those people be defenders or builders. IE a good chunk of people defend by camping in between or on rets, thus making a zap chain possible. hell someone just running between 2 rets can cause a chain.


DL;DR being in a good anti-mara base can compromise it.
The humans function as lighting rods thus accelerating the base's demise?
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on January 25, 2011, 04:32:46 am
Lecavalier: the problem is chain from humans to buildings, which even in 100% unzappable base can hit 4 buildings (which is the max).
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Tremulant on January 25, 2011, 04:48:17 am
Oh ffs, we all know exactly what you're saying, we're not stupid, i frequently make use of the odd idiot standing infront of a tesla to make it easier to kill, this is part of the game, aliens have a hard enough time killing a well-camped base as it is, i don't see that making it harder is a great idea. If having half a dozen people standing around in base increased the density enough that every part of the thing chains then move out, stop standing around in base, ok?
Lecavalier: the problem is chain from humans to buildings, which even in 100% unzappable base can hit 4 buildings (which is the max).
Are you attempting to steal sirdude's crown?
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on January 25, 2011, 11:12:58 am
Fine, un-zapchainable. Should have been obvious.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Haraldx on January 25, 2011, 01:51:30 pm
OK... Calm down SirDude, I see you have a problem, but let me give you an advice. If there are people in the base which cause zap-chains, then:
1. Don't build a base. Have RC and 3 telenodes scattered around the map.
2. Build the armory in some ass. This will cause all people to go to that ass and there will be no zap-chains.
3. Build RC protected by 3 zap-chain and hop proof turrets. Build rest of the buildings somewhere else.

Here, try some of these ideas!
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Tremulant on January 25, 2011, 02:28:36 pm
Fine, un-zapchainable. Should have been obvious.
Does that make your comment any less stupid? Are you upset that it's impossible to achieve perfection with your bloody team getting in the way?
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Lecavalier on January 25, 2011, 03:58:11 pm
Lecavalier: the problem is chain from humans to buildings, which even in 100% unzappable base can hit 4 buildings (which is the max).
I know that. I just don't see it as being a problem.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Teapot on January 25, 2011, 07:55:46 pm
Quote
aliens have a hard enough time killing a well-camped base as it is, i don't see that making it harder is a great idea
+1

Protecting humans even more as they sit in their base is just silly.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 26, 2011, 12:23:38 am
but humans have a hard time making bases that dont get ownd right before SD, also its not like aliens won't be able counter if it was implemented. 

Hell you might be able to add more mara zap range or make the max chain 5 from 4, OR we can make the Tesla cancel out zaps as that will be a bit more balanced.

Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Meisseli on January 26, 2011, 12:34:13 am
but humans have a hard time making bases that dont get ownd right before SD
Nope.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 26, 2011, 12:45:54 am
*depending on map*

for the most part, yes.

most bases i make last longer then other peoples.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Lecavalier on January 26, 2011, 02:19:13 am

most bases i make last longer then other peoples.
:o
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 26, 2011, 04:02:15 am
i  over space them but not too far. i keep arm away from medi as when one gets destroyed the other is OK still that is probably one of the main reasons my bases can last.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Thoth on January 26, 2011, 05:20:41 am
OR we can make the Tesla cancel out zaps as that will be a bit more balanced.

What do you mean? Completely cancel it out? Or like make limit its chain or power? Or would the tesla take all the damage (canceling the chain)? Maybe the  :defcomp: could take away some of the damage from the zaps.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Meisseli on January 26, 2011, 06:07:29 pm
*depending on map*
I tried hard thinking of maps where it was not possible to build a base that lasts SD but alas, I failed.

most bases i make last longer then other peoples.
Considering your statements, doesn't sound very convincing to me.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: CreatureofHell on January 26, 2011, 08:45:31 pm
most bases i make last longer then other peoples.
Considering your statements, doesn't sound very convincing to me.
Or he plays with terrible people...
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: UniqPhoeniX on January 27, 2011, 05:31:25 am
Some people here are missing the point. It's not about how good bases can be built, it's that the bases rely too much on not having a noobsuit standing in the wrong place.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 27, 2011, 11:09:55 pm
exactly.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Lecavalier on January 28, 2011, 01:46:29 am
Everybody does get it, they just disagree. Or rather, most people do.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: F50 on January 28, 2011, 08:53:37 am
Exactly.

In all seriousness however, Lecav is right.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Norfenstein on January 29, 2011, 01:25:22 am
DL;DR being in a good anti-mara base can compromise it.
Then the humans ought to leave their base. If they can't then the aliens probably deserve to win.
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: SirDude on January 29, 2011, 04:20:14 am
you are not considering how many players are in the base or if those people are the much needed defenders for people who may be on a raid. (defending and camping is not the same).
Title: Re: This makes building good human bases that much harder...
Post by: Tremulant on January 29, 2011, 10:51:42 am
you are not considering how many players are in the base or if those people are the much needed defenders for people who may be on a raid.
There's nothing worse than returning from a raid on the alien village with a good sized tyrant carcass, only to discov... hang about, raid?
SirDude, dude, give it a rest now, k, dude?