Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: se7ensnakes on May 31, 2011, 05:11:27 pm
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If the humans dont do an early attack they cannot win. they will get stuck in their own base because one human cannot overcome a tyrant in a small hall, unless the tyrant is a newbie. The only way that humans could overcome a tyrant in a hall is to go in groups but there is no communication fast enough to do that effectively. All you need is two expert Tyrants and the whole game is over, despite how good two humans may be. This happens time and time again. Humans can only camp until sudden death and then game is over. How long can you flank a tyrant in a small hall? the luci weapon is too awkward, the primarily weapon should be shifted to the secondary weapon because it is faster. The luci takes a long time to master. Most people just play the game, they dont want to spend months or even years mastering a weapon. This is after all a game. Why a luci over a missile fire? A bazooka or RPG? It would be easier for a newbie to master. The luci is way too awkward.
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If you could master a whole game immediately, what would be the point of playing it?
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... and when everyone's super.... muahahaha. No one is.
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I half expected this to be an admin abuse thread.
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Lol, the game got an insane difficulty nerf as it is, it's much more easy for a noob to do at least a little bit in this version than it was in 1.1, in part because it's much harder for people to "one man army" in the game now, although you could call out some exceptions for the best human players.
But, the tyrant charge is overpowered in any area where the human has no choice but to be near walls.
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I haven't really seen this happen with decent human teams. Attacking in groups is not that hard.
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:tyrant:
tiran hueg
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But is it Procyon hueg?
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But is it Procyon hueg?
Nothing is Procyon hueg. Nothing.
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tiran hueg
Exactly, how would it make sense to take down something that hueg on your own? It would be very silly if tyrants didn't have the power to back up their enormous hitbox.
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But is it Procyon hueg?
Nothing is Procyon hueg. Nothing.
Vega.
Specula.
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But is it Procyon hueg?
Nothing is Procyon hueg. Nothing.
Vega.
Specula.
Jupiter.
Saturn.
Giant Granger.
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here I just finish another game...two tyrants waiting, One human comes out and gets slaughtered, then another and another, despite their huge hit box. There is no way to communicate quick enough to lead attacks. A lot of times I "spectate" and i see a few good players outflank a tyrant, but by far tyrants just maul everyone in site and make humans have to camp, until sudden death and then everything is over. It would be brilliant if you could make the game go back and forth between alien and human until one is defeated by better tactics.
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No tyrants are VERY subjected to their environment.
If they are in a map with tons of hallways that are short, blind corners and such then they will more then likely own.
Long hallways, open spaces and such will make them die quick.
If the maps has tons of short runs that rants love then I keep with a group,
be defensive or stay in areas where I can have a decent chance of killing them.
If the humans dont do an early attack they cannot win. they will get stuck in their own base because one human cannot overcome a tyrant in a small hall, unless the tyrant is a newbie. The only way that humans could overcome a tyrant in a hall is to go in groups but there is no communication fast enough to do that effectively. All you need is two expert Tyrants and the whole game is over, despite how good two humans may be. This happens time and time again. Humans can only camp until sudden death and then game is over. How long can you flank a tyrant in a small hall? the luci weapon is too awkward, the primarily weapon should be shifted to the secondary weapon because it is faster. The luci takes a long time to master. Most people just play the game, they dont want to spend months or even years mastering a weapon. This is after all a game. Why a luci over a missile fire? A bazooka or RPG? It would be easier for a newbie to master. The luci is way too awkward.
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unless the tyrant is a newbie.
Any alien class or human weapon can be considered "over-powered" if it's in control of a good player. So I might as well say that the :granger: is over-powered with it's very menacing slash.
The only way that humans could overcome a tyrant in a hall is to go in groups but there is no communication fast enough to do that effectively.
I'm pretty sure that even at s1 vs s1 humans still have to move in groups. Same as :dretch: s.
All you need is two expert Tyrants and the whole game is over
Same with advanced Marauders. Same with battle suits that rush the alien base.
Why dumb down the tyrant???
:tyrant:
tiran hueg
So it's power makes sense. It's called a tyrant for a reason.
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I don't think Tyrants have too much power, but I do think there is plenty wrong with them.
The Tyrant in its current state just feels bad. It feels bad to play as, and it feels bad to fight against.
When playing as the Tyrant, you have to deal with a charge that is mushy/slippery and has no real confirmation of damage.
When playing against the Tyrant, you have to worry about that Tyrant that is running away from you all of a sudden pulling a 180 and instakilling you by tapping your foot even though you are wearing a battlesuit.
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even though you are wearing a battlesuit.
they manufacture those in china from lead
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I hardly ever bother with a battlesuit, Just a helmet, armor and shotgun. I dont see the difference worth spending your time at the armoury, trying to pick and choose.
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The tyrant does have too much power in corridors where it can kill even groups of humans easily with a charge. Something should be done about the near instant kill ability it has even against battlesuits in that situation. Charge should be worth using but not kill that fast.
One way to fix it would be to reduce the damage charge does against a human who is against an obstacle but try to keep charge damage otherwise intact. I don't think it's game breaking though because most players don't know how to use charge properly and it's only specific parts of the map tyrants are that powerful.
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Just another note on its charge being OP in some ways: I think you can charge someone who is on top of you if you look up at them. Might have to test. I do know that someone who is up in the air can still be charged, sort of like you "ram" them with your head.
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The humans do have too much power in corridors where they can kill even groups of aliens easily by blindly spamming mouse 1. Something should be done about the near instant kill ability it has even against tyrants in that situation.
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Location, location, location.
We all know that certain classes and equipment cater to certain maps. Karith can be a jettard haven due to it's openness, and tighter maps favor aliens. Most of the default maps are pretty well balanced, but some maps can tip the balance so far in favor for one team that a certain class or equip combo can seem imba or OP. Still, though, it's ridiculous to think that X class or Y equip is OP just because on Z map it's super effective (especially if Z map is non-default). Also, I think you're not putting enough weight on human error. I can dance with rants; sure it's difficult and I'm out of practice, but I can dance with them, and when I fuck up I know it's because (most of the time) I fucked up, and not because the rant had a huge terrain advantage.
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IMO rant trample/charge is WAY overpowered, up to 1110 dps (theoretically able to kill up to 6 bsuits in the 3 seconds of trample) and it's best in the locations where humans are already weaker. However, at the same time, if the rant misses, it can't escape and will usually die quite quickly. IMO trample should be completely redone. No weapon/ability should be half as powerful in ANY location/environment.
And I call BS on anyone claiming to be able to dodge the trample of a very good player in a small corridor. It can't be done. If you have 100 ping you could be half dead before you even know the rant turned 180 degrees and started trampling. 100ms later you will be dead.
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IMO rant trample/charge is WAY overpowered, up to 1110 dps (theoretically able to kill up to 6 bsuits in the 3 seconds of trample) and it's best in the locations where humans are already weaker. However, at the same time, if the rant misses, it can't escape and will usually die quite quickly. IMO trample should be completely redone. No weapon/ability should be half as powerful in ANY location/environment.
And I call BS on anyone claiming to be able to dodge the trample of a very good player in a small corridor. It can't be done. If you have 100 ping you could be half dead before you even know the rant turned 180 degrees and started trampling. 100ms later you will be dead.
Exactly this.
I think an excellent way to fix trample is to limit your turning radius while charging/trampling.
If you turn >90°, it should cancel the trample or charge. I think that would fix many of the problems with fighting against trample, but it still doesn't fix the fact that trampling as a tyrant feels dumb and has no indicator of whether you're doing it right besides the human dying when you are doing it right.
I think that sentence is a little recursive, but, the point stands!
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I think that it shouldn't work unless the human is on the ground. Against sloped walls, the rant will throw you into the air and then continue to trample you. It's too ridiculously easy to hit with it, and what I just mentioned is just one example of this.
I suppose limiting turning radius would be alright, but it's also used for escaping. Whales' idea of ">90 degrees canceling charge" might work just fine though.
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But rants could still turn 180 degrees and THEN start charging.
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That's different though, it takes time to charge something that will do the crazy damage to anything with armor. The problem is a rant charging then doing a 180 as soon as they release.
But there are still issues. I'm pretty certain I've been bumped into by a charging rant while wearing a battlesuit and taken 40 damage, just from a split second of being hit. That shouldn't do slash damage.
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IMO rant trample/charge is WAY overpowered, up to 1110 dps (theoretically able to kill up to 6 bsuits in the 3 seconds of trample) and it's best in the locations where humans are already weaker. However, at the same time, if the rant misses, it can't escape and will usually die quite quickly. IMO trample should be completely redone. No weapon/ability should be half as powerful in ANY location/environment.
And I call BS on anyone claiming to be able to dodge the trample of a very good player in a small corridor. It can't be done. If you have 100 ping you could be half dead before you even know the rant turned 180 degrees and started trampling. 100ms later you will be dead.
Exactly this.
I think an excellent way to fix trample is to limit your turning radius while charging/trampling.
If you turn >90°, it should cancel the trample or charge. I think that would fix many of the problems with fighting against trample, but it still doesn't fix the fact that trampling as a tyrant feels dumb and has no indicator of whether you're doing it right besides the human dying when you are doing it right.
I think that sentence is a little recursive, but, the point stands!
ok, in return, you must accept a delay on luci secondary after a primary shot, and vice versa. wanna know how to kill a rant in a tight halway?
dodge back 3 times, fire 2 charged luci shots and 3 secondary immediately after those. dead rant and you are untouched.
dont accept my previous suggestion as serious. humans, ALL humans have a big advantage over almost all aliens. we must get close, you have range. play your strength instead of ours, and watch your complaints evaporate.
i've actually been thinking the larger aliens could stand for a redo.... instead of truckloads of HP, how about lessened HP but some armor? you could then designate certain weapons as "armor piercing" or "armor deflected". us aliens dont (to my knowledge) have location based damage. shooting us from any direction on any part of our hitbox does the same damage, unlike you over-evolved gorillas. we pretty much must get headshots or else we take too long to make the kill and the target or his backup kills us.
i'm not suggesting anything too complex or anything, just a slight HP reduction in, say, mara and above (bigger as you get bigger) and a bit of armor in return.
if nothing else, it'd be something fun to test out for a couple of weeks.
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ok, in return, you must accept a delay on luci secondary after a primary shot, and vice versa. wanna know how to kill a rant in a tight halway?
dodge back 3 times, fire 2 charged luci shots and 3 secondary immediately after those. dead rant and you are untouched.
dont accept my previous suggestion as serious. humans, ALL humans have a big advantage over almost all aliens. we must get close, you have range. play your strength instead of ours, and watch your complaints evaporate.
If that "suggestion" isn't serious (and I would hope that it truly isn't because it's flawed as fuck in the scope of the game's objective), then you essentially just said nothing. It's a bad example for this topic's subject.
However, it is a decent example of what has already been discussed in other topics, how ridiculously overpowered dodge is at distancing the humans. As I said in that topic, you can actually exploit an enemy goon's pounce so that you gain further distance.
But the topic here is rant, and the example of dodging backwards three times is terrible, because only a shitty rant will fall for that. The true problem with fighting rants is now that human players are immensely limited in their ability to get to the alien base. If you gain that much distance from a rant, it's not unlikely that he will turn and run back to his base, which only complicates your problems on the human team, since you want the aliens out of their base (unless someone shitty built in window room or something like that) or poor and lacking in higher alien classes. Otherwise, rushes are very likely to fail.
On the other side of this, the aliens don't really have to worry about how many humans are camping in their base when they have a decent amount of rants, because rants push everything out of the way. They can charge right into the enemy base and do damage, provided it's reachable for them. It's not nearly as easy for heavily-equipped humans since rants are too big to get around on their way to the alien base.
The only thing a human team in this situation can really do is attempt to kill the rants and drain evos (which smart alien players will avoid, knowing what the human plan is), or full-on rush. While a hardcore rush might take out a lot of aliens as a result of aliens being too big to fit all their forces into most individual areas, and it might hit their base hard, the human base becomes extremely vulnerable here, and it doesn't take nearly as long for a group of aliens to GG the humans as it does for a group of humans being harassed in the alien base to take their enemies out, regardless of how good the human base is since it's a GROUP of aliens; defenses can't shoot at more than one alien at once, so rants are going to be pretty damn sure of themselves in their destructive potential.
Also, if you split up your human group to close the aliens in when you rush, it's more than likely that each group will die looking pretty silly. Let's use 6v6 as an example: 6 tyrants against 6 chainsuits. A full on 6 chainsuit rush on a decent map will just kill all rants in the path to the alien base, the reason being the inability of large aliens to push a large group of themselves into an area in one direction effectively. However, if you cut that in half so that there's 3v3s on two different fronts, the aliens become more able to push these smaller groups onto the smaller human groups, thus making it even less likely that the humans would succeed.
Overall, there's some points on tyrant in everything I just talked about, and there's points on the game in general. An off topic note in relation to RAKninja-Decepticon's words is: Don't start shit about the human's being able to outrange the aliens, because it really doesn't mean shit when it comes down to the endgame.
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Not true. In Sv1 the humans and the aliens are correctly matched. either the dretch or the goon could go down with one human and a weapon. Not true for a tyrant in a battlesuit and a chaingun or even a luci. I have yet to see a battlesuit win over a tyrant match one on one, unless the tyrant is incomparable. Please give an altenate to the extremely awkward luci. Luci are useless for a melee. it is more of a weapon to destroy the other base. The worse thing i see is humans trying to defend the base with a luci. They end up destroying their own base trying to shoot an attacker in their own base.
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The only thing you said that makes any sense is kinda the part about battlesuits beating tyrants, although that's extremely shaky at best, but you missed my points completely if you're bringing that up at all, as well as the whole "Sv1" thing, which I have no clue what it is but I'm assuming S1 v S1.
Translate a bit better too, I can see some people getting confused by your English; "tyrant in a battlesuit".
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ideally a tyrant and a battlesuit should be comparable. One tyrant could overcome a battlesuit and vice versa. The only real weapon against a tyrant while one on one is the shotgun. But in this event the battlesuit is really no different than an armour and a helmet. Why bother to even have a battlesuit?
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Classes shouldn't be directly comparable to other classes. There's supposed to be a difference between an alien and a human. If you want directly comparable classes, play hvh.
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Why bother to even have a battlesuit?
like... for increased damage protection?
A lot of other things you say in this thread are quite odd. Chaingun, shotgun, lucifer, (painsaw) are the weapons you want to use against tyrants. Two battlesuits is more than enough to kill a tyrant, sometimes even one is enough (a good lucifer mainly), but as others have said, you'll usually have to fight it in a terrain that favours you.
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ideally a tyrant and a battlesuit should be comparable. One tyrant could overcome a battlesuit and vice versa. The only real weapon against a tyrant while one on one is the shotgun. But in this event the battlesuit is really no different than an armour and a helmet. Why bother to even have a battlesuit?
I love it when apparently unskilled players comment on balance. As Meisseli pointed out, there's a number of weapons that are effective against rants. My personal favorite combination is either the chainsuit or helm/larmor/bpack/luci. It depends a lot on the terrain. One of the worst things is to get too comfortable using one weapon against one class. If you have the opportunity, you should switch it up as much as possible so that you can become a very well-rounded player with the ability to adapt (fairly) well to any situation you may encounter. While I'll agree that there's too much difference between the minimum and maximum potential for the rant, but I don't think you should comment on it if you're not experienced enough to.
inb4 whothefuckareyouPB????
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Why bother to even have a battlesuit?
like... for increased damage protection?
A lot of other things you say in this thread are quite odd. Chaingun, shotgun, lucifer, (painsaw) are the weapons you want to use against tyrants. Two battlesuits is more than enough to kill a tyrant, sometimes even one is enough (a good lucifer mainly), but as others have said, you'll usually have to fight it in a terrain that favours you.
you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?
shouldent the rant, as top alien, have the top melee ability?
shouldent closing into painsaw range be the furthest thing from your mind when facing a rant?
dracopne, i was not being totally serious, i was just throwing it out there. i would like the armor thing, just to spice it up a bit.
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Painsaw really only works when the rant cannot concentrate on one of the attacking painsaws IMHO (2 painsaws working together can work wonders for such a cheap weapon)
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you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?
It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.
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you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?
It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.
but that does not answer the question. should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?
i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.
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you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?
It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.
but that does not answer the question. should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?
i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.
What are you on about? Conceptually? You have a close-range weapon, the only way to use it is to get into close range.
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you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?
It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.
but that does not answer the question. should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?
i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.
The idea is that the rant is the supposed to be the strongest melee class in the game, and it is. RAK is grumpy because he thinks that since the rant is the best melee class in the game, no amount of painsaws should ever match up to it. To this, I roll my eyes.
RAK, the painsaw is an effective weapon because it's got a ridiculous DPS (146.5 as opposed to the tyrant's 125 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=14355.0)). As Meisseli said, you'd be hard pressed to kill a rant one-on-one with a painsaw, but if the rant is distracted, why the hell wouldn't you? It's an incredibly powerful weapon and on top of that it's completely base-safe and idiot-proof. I have no idea the logic behind what you're arguing, though, so I'm not going to try and defeat your argument in any way that makes sense. Instead, I'm going to propose a counter argument:
Why the hell is the +goon so good at sniping? Shouldn't it be weak because the humans are ranged? Last I checked, in a one-on-one situation the +goon with full barbs is a fair match for most humans.
If you'd like to have a logical discussion, I'd love to have one too. But if you're convinced that a high DPS weapon that just happens to be melee shouldn't be good against a rant in any situation ever for concept's sake, I think you should quit while you're ahead (rather, not too far behind).
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but that does not answer the question. should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?
i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.
The idea is that the rant is the supposed to be the strongest melee class in the game, and it is. RAK is grumpy because he thinks that since the rant is the best melee class in the game, no amount of painsaws should ever match up to it. To this, I roll my eyes.
RAK, the painsaw is an effective weapon because it's got a ridiculous DPS (146.5 as opposed to the tyrant's 125 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=14355.0)). As Meisseli said, you'd be hard pressed to kill a rant one-on-one with a painsaw, but if the rant is distracted, why the hell wouldn't you? It's an incredibly powerful weapon and on top of that it's completely base-safe and idiot-proof. I have no idea the logic behind what you're arguing, though, so I'm not going to try and defeat your argument in any way that makes sense. Instead, I'm going to propose a counter argument:
Why the hell is the +goon so good at sniping? Shouldn't it be weak because the humans are ranged? Last I checked, in a one-on-one situation the +goon with full barbs is a fair match for most humans.
If you'd like to have a logical discussion, I'd love to have one too. But if you're convinced that a high DPS weapon that just happens to be melee shouldn't be good against a rant in any situation ever for concept's sake, I think you should quit while you're ahead (rather, not too far behind).
so, you dont see something wrong with humans having a higher DPS in melee with a psaw than any alien? and are not alien DPSs usually calculated with headshots factored in, so that in order to get the "advertised" DPS, aliens must aim, while humans just need to simply contact the hitbox?
as for the side comment on goon barbs, what's the DPS achievable, and what are the DPS numbers of hs2 equipment?
it is not that the painsaw is good, it is that a 150(?) credit s1 weapon is better than the tyrant. so human's have the best melee. humans are also faster (with dodge) and more manoeuvrable (with jetpacks). as they build just as fast (if not faster) than aliens now, can someone please explain to me what advantages over the humans are the aliens supposed to have?
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Hahah, painsaw is better than tyrant? And now it costs 150?
Please, play the game sometimes, you might even get your facts straight, and we might not simply laugh you out with what seems to be your bad theories of why you are failing as aliens.
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Comparing alien and human weapon DPS on its own is bullshit. You could multiply alien damage and human health (and regen) by 10 without affecting balance.
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tyrant compared to human
http://i.imgur.com/fdNSC.jpg
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i had a big long response typed out, but fuck it. you're missing the point entirely, trying to divert the discussion, and finally trying to shove it all of on me theorising why i'm bad. you are obviously hostile to any discussion of the topic, so i see no point and further drawing it out.
good day.
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trying to shove it all of on me theorising why i'm bad.
it is not that the painsaw is good, it is that a 150(?) credit s1 weapon is better than the tyrant. so human's have the best melee. humans are also faster (with dodge) and more manoeuvrable (with jetpacks). as they build just as fast (if not faster) than aliens now, can someone please explain to me what advantages over the humans are the aliens supposed to have?
This reads like it: you're being grumpy about how you feel the humans are so overpowered. How you come to the conclusion by saying "humans have painsaw and jetpack" strikes to me as tremendously funny, and like you haven't played the game really.
(Trample DPS is 1110 compared to painsaw's 146,5, by the way, zomg)
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it is over 900
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but that does not answer the question. should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?
i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.
The idea is that the rant is the supposed to be the strongest melee class in the game, and it is. RAK is grumpy because he thinks that since the rant is the best melee class in the game, no amount of painsaws should ever match up to it. To this, I roll my eyes.
RAK, the painsaw is an effective weapon because it's got a ridiculous DPS (146.5 as opposed to the tyrant's 125 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=14355.0)). As Meisseli said, you'd be hard pressed to kill a rant one-on-one with a painsaw, but if the rant is distracted, why the hell wouldn't you? It's an incredibly powerful weapon and on top of that it's completely base-safe and idiot-proof. I have no idea the logic behind what you're arguing, though, so I'm not going to try and defeat your argument in any way that makes sense. Instead, I'm going to propose a counter argument:
Why the hell is the +goon so good at sniping? Shouldn't it be weak because the humans are ranged? Last I checked, in a one-on-one situation the +goon with full barbs is a fair match for most humans.
If you'd like to have a logical discussion, I'd love to have one too. But if you're convinced that a high DPS weapon that just happens to be melee shouldn't be good against a rant in any situation ever for concept's sake, I think you should quit while you're ahead (rather, not too far behind).
so, you dont see something wrong with humans having a higher DPS in melee with a psaw than any alien? and are not alien DPSs usually calculated with headshots factored in, so that in order to get the "advertised" DPS, aliens must aim, while humans just need to simply contact the hitbox?
as for the side comment on goon barbs, what's the DPS achievable, and what are the DPS numbers of hs2 equipment?
it is not that the painsaw is good, it is that a 150(?) credit s1 weapon is better than the tyrant. so human's have the best melee. humans are also faster (with dodge) and more manoeuvrable (with jetpacks). as they build just as fast (if not faster) than aliens now, can someone please explain to me what advantages over the humans are the aliens supposed to have?
RAK, you're comparing straight damage stats which, really, mean nothing, because you'll take out a human with a rant than you will a rant with a human. There are so many variables that you're completely and totally missing. And for the record: No, I don't find it weird that the humans have a weapon that is more "powerful" (but you must admit much less practical) than an alien weapon. Do you find it weird that I prefer +goon to rant in most situations?
Anyway...
Barb
Barb damage: 110
Barb repeat: 1200
Barb speed: 1000
Barb splash: 75
Barb regen: 15000
DPS: 91.6
Flamer
Price: 400
Damage: 20
Repeat: 200
Ammo: 200
Splash: 10
Radius: 50
Shot size: 15
Shot life: 700
Speed: 300
Lag: 0.65 (amount of your velocity added to the fireball)
DPS: 100 / 50 (direct/splash)
Pulse Rifle
Price: 450
Damage: 9
Repeat: 100
Ammo: 40
Max clips: 5
Speed: 1200
Shot size: 5
DPS: 90
So, if you want to get super technical, yes, the flamer does 8.4 more DPS than barbs. However, factoring in HP, regen, range, and terrain, a +goon is easily better than any flamer in range, just like factoring those in, the rant is better than any painsaw in melee. I'm not going to bother explaining this anymore because it's obvious that we're both stuck in our opinions and we aren't budging anywhere. Unfortunately, your opinion is the one that's the most disagreed with, which makes me question the thought behind it. FAREWELL, good talking to you.
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Although playing for 8 months, almost everyday, I still cannot get use to the spatial problem. Another words, the tyrant appears far but it is not and can kill you, from what is seems like too far. They are impossible to chase when wounded, as humans are very slow. One human battlesuit vs one tyrant, does not work. There is no adequate communication to form a team. The luci with its 200 plus damage is not a melee weapon.
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Why a luci over a missile fire? A bazooka or RPG? It would be easier for a newbie to master.
You just answered your own question. If it was easy for a noob, then there would be a problem. Learning curve makes a game.
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I have yet to see a battlesuit win over a tyrant match one on one, unless the tyrant is incomparable... The worse thing i see is humans trying to defend the base with a luci. They end up destroying their own base trying to shoot an attacker in their own base.
Yeah, I think you're just playing with terrible humans.
Now ask yourself, what else does Rant HAVE? a huge hit-box and barely enough HP to justify it? A slash that is only slightly more powerful than Goon's chomp and a speed that is slightly faster than humans? So basically, take away trample, and all you're left with is a big fat swordfighter against guys with guns. Rant is THE stage-3 class. It has to have SOME advantage.
My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."
I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.
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My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."
I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.
we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.
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My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."
I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.
we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.
you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.
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you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?
It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.
Such as painsawing a tyrants backside.
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My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."
I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.
we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.
you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.
you listed advantages, you did not compare them. debate still open. but that's not the point - i was making a joke.
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My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."
I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.
we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.
you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.
you listed advantages, you did not compare them. debate still open. but that's not the point - i was making a joke.
Comparison (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=15509.0).
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My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."
I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.
we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.
you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.
you listed advantages, you did not compare them. debate still open. but that's not the point - i was making a joke.
Comparison (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=15509.0).
wrong again, those are statistics of the last phase, not a comparison the advantages of the teams.
and again, you're going out of your way to try to..... to tell the truth, i dont know what you're trying to prove. again, the debate comment was a joke.