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Author Topic: 1.2 idea  (Read 11128 times)

Lonly

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1.2 idea
« on: January 13, 2009, 09:58:48 pm »
Ive been thinking. Since my brother plays Counter Strike 2d they have this option. Its News. That news page is updated every time something new is posted on the website. So i have been thinking. Why not have a news option on 1.2 that auto updates through the internet. Just click News and it appears with something new if something new was posted on the website. This can also help get the news instantly instead of always checking the site. Another thing is a Check for Updates option. For instance there was a slight bug with the rifle. If you fix it to auto update the latest version and fix the rifle bug you click Check for Updates and it checks for updates. This is a good way to keep up to date on new things or bugs. One last idea. If you click Create Server, and you click CREATE, in 1.2 you can make it so it auto downloads the tremserver.bat, admin.dat, game.qvm, etc. This can make creating servers easier. Just some simple ideas I thought about.
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Hendrich

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 11:35:19 pm »
First off, Counter Strike 2D rules. Made a few maps on it.  8)

Second, I'm guessing your suggesting for Tremulous to have an "Autoupdater" (I didn't get what you kept saying about "news")? Well, it sounds like a good idea, maybe just grab a program, tell it to link the download to SourceForge to download the latest patch, it'll be nice if somebody could shine some light as to why stuff like this doesn't happen, but I do have one reason.

The updates themselves. See, its been years since the last update, and all the other clients, patches, Huds, etc are not official stuff, so whats the point of a auto-updater if there isn't anything available to update? When v1.2 comes out, theres no point, you might as well grab it yourself instead of going through the trouble of coding an auto-updater to do that for you. 
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your face

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 11:51:13 pm »
And the "creating servers easier" idea wouldn't be so hot either.
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Caveman

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 11:58:49 pm »
Client-Updates via a central server? lol, what have you been smoking?
News at each startup? For what? Trem does not push out that many news.

As for the rest? Pure BS, too many QVMs out there, and believe me, those that try to push their admin.dat on our servers will meet Peter earlier than they expected.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:00:23 am by Caveman »
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Hendrich

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 12:04:00 am »
Quote
And the "creating servers easier" idea wouldn't be so hot either.

Damn.

Had to go there, didn't you?  ::)
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David

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 12:43:22 am »
Auto-Updater could be nice, if it was simple and easy.
"To install MG client set cl_updateURL to ... and /update" or whatever.
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Amanieu

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 06:02:35 am »
Hey I had that idea first >:(

TremFusion already does a version check with our master server on each startup, and displays a message if the client you are using is out of date.

I am thinking about adding an auto-update system, but it will require a lot of work.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
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Einstein

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 03:39:03 am »
RSS feed instead of MOTD, perhaps? interesting concept, I don't know how useful it'd be. I had no idea you had a version check, Amanieu, awesome.

Good luck with autoupdates... too much work in cross-platform C programs for me to attempt it without a server-side autobuild system.
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Dill-o

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 02:14:27 am »
or at least make the update easier, because I just can't figure out how to do it. It's too complicated for me, and I hate missing out.
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Bissig

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 02:34:09 am »
Quote from: Dill-o on January 29, 2009, 02:14:27 am
or at least make the update easier, because I just can't figure out how to do it. It's too complicated for me, and I hate missing out.

Copy new client over old client.. difficult?
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Deidara

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 07:29:18 am »
If that was realized, I think some check - of current clients would be nice and it could help to eliminate cheaters.

For example, new client will create a file, where will be written date of downloading client and so... Updater can check it, if it's ok, client of the player should be right. But also little updates of clients would help it as well.  ;D

But I think it's just my fantasy, because here is just a few updates...
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Amanieu

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 11:02:23 am »
Quote from: Deidara on January 29, 2009, 07:29:18 am
If that was realized, I think some check - of current clients would be nice and it could help to eliminate cheaters.
Won't work. Nothing can stop the cheaters. Don't even bother trying, you're just wasting time. Any hacker will be able to bypass your new anticheat system.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
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Deidara

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 12:35:59 pm »
Quote from: Amanieu on January 29, 2009, 11:02:23 am
Won't work. Nothing can stop the cheaters. Don't even bother trying, you're just wasting time. Any hacker will be able to bypass your new anticheat system.

This opinion is really stupid. Your philosophy is: Let cheaters cheat, let hackers hack in the other words: Let's go destroy the world.

If hackers wouldn't be slowed-down, it wouldn't be harder and harder and any bank would be hacked by a baby. And also tremulous wouldn't be popular, because without care about cheaters wouldn't normal players played. 
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Kaleo

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 12:48:25 pm »
Quote from: Deidara on January 29, 2009, 12:35:59 pm
This opinion is really stupid.

Do not question peoples opinion. Question his outlook.

Never question peoples opinion.
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Amanieu

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 02:45:43 pm »
Any system you make requires that the server trust the client to do something, therefore any cheat developer would just make the client lie to the server by saying everything is as it should be.

If you find a magic anticheat system, tell me about it, and I'll show you why it won't work.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

David

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2009, 03:49:43 pm »
People are entitled to think what they like, doesn't mean they are right.  In my opinion what Kaleo said was stupid, and its my opinion so you can never question it, and just have to take it as fact.

The cheating thing has be discussed at length before.  Even if the deterrence isn't 100% impervious, it will still deter a lot of people, and IMO a 90% reduction in cheating is better than none.  Looks like ID, and every other game company, agree with that.

As an aside, by disabling said anti-cheat systems you are implying people are allowed to cheat.
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rotacak

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2009, 05:27:49 pm »
Make new cheat client with secret feature - it will automatically use something like "/a I using aimbot, ban me", spread it around all forums, then ban that users.  :D
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Deidara

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2009, 05:45:28 pm »
I was talking theoretically, I don't wanna solve cheaters, I wanted to point what would bring autoUpdater as features. Client patches -> people would have to paste there aimbot and other cheats again and again.
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Einstein

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2009, 05:58:10 pm »
@Deidara: Checking for an update every time you connect is great, but the actual autoupdating is inconvenient. Also, most hacks now can simply be put in a purified pk3 and so an update wouldn't overwrite it. Plus, Tremulous has been forked and modded all to hell, with everyone using a different client; all of them would need to enable forcible autoupdating for this to work, and most users would loathe anything that is imposed upon them.

@rotacak: Same deal, there's a number of clients out there and each and every one (including the untouched 1.1.0 client) would have to be patched. Also, since it's open-source, the real cheaters compile their own stuff and won't be susceptible to this. Therefore, only the small middle ground would be covered: the nub cheaters who use the stock client wouldn't have the tattletale patch, and neither would the more leet hackers. Not a very well-thought out idea to begin with... :P

Amanieu and David are correct. You can't stop all cheating as long as you put any amount of control in the client, and to do any less is impractical. The goal is simply to minimize cheating, and while there are a couple of decent approaches to this, the best defense is a solid admin team on the servers you play on.
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David

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2009, 06:06:33 pm »
As to auto-updating, its a bad idea.  Who runs the repo?  Who holds the keys?
Why should I trust you with root access to my box?  And for that point, the updater would have to run as root, which is another bad thing.
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Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Amanieu

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2009, 07:14:54 am »
gksu & whatever the equivalent is for other platforms
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

David

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2009, 08:18:31 am »
Making me need the root password every time I play trem.
Although it would be a good way to stop the distros packaging up trem in stupid ways, cos none would touch it then.
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Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Amanieu

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2009, 09:39:35 am »
It would only ask you for your root password if a new update is available. You then have the option to accept the update or continue using your current version. If you accept the update, then you need to type in your root password.
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< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

cactusfrog

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2009, 02:09:51 am »
maybe instead of auto updating which can get annoying you can go in your tremulous folder and find another exe that runs an scan to see if every one of your files is updated if not it will alert you and you have the option to donwload the updates. The first time you open tremulous this program will run automatically so newbies have the latest client.
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mooseberry

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2009, 02:54:54 am »
Quote from: cactusfrog on January 31, 2009, 02:09:51 am
maybe instead of auto updating which can get annoying you can go in your tremulous folder and find another exe that runs an scan to see if every one of your files is updated if not it will alert you and you have the option to donwload the updates. The first time you open tremulous this program will run automatically so newbies have the latest client.

Yes and what is the newest client? Whatever shit storm has been released most recently? Or only official dev releases which come out maybe once every 3-4 years...?

To summarize: There is no point to this, it won't work,... why?

To summarize the summary: It won't work.

To summarize the summary of the summary: No.
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David

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2009, 12:22:08 pm »
Also, for official releases, the master server's MOTD can be used.  (Assuming it works in 1.1...)
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Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
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My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

sleekslacker

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Re: 1.2 idea
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2009, 06:19:19 pm »
Quote from: Amanieu on January 30, 2009, 09:39:35 am
It would only ask you for your root password if a new update is available. You then have the option to accept the update or continue using your current version. If you accept the update, then you need to type in your root password.

 _______________________________
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   I need your root password, please ! 
                                       
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