More Convenient Tremulous .zip

[Kitashi]

I'm currently working on making an altered Tremulous download (.zip) so new users won't have so many options they need to change to start playing.  When I'm done I'll include a changelog with extra information, put the finished product into a .zip, upload it to a file host site, and publish the download link.

On a side note, while rereading some threads for ideas I saw that rotacak already made a zip in this post, but I'll continue this thread anyway to hopefully expand on the idea.  Also, I may work on a map pack later, but at the moment I'm going to focus on the basic download.

Below I will post what changes I've already made as well as requests for help.  I would appreciate replies either to my requests or with ideas/commentary.  

Changes:
• Added the trem-servers backported clients* for Windows and Linux (though Linux users may need to get a different version for 64-bit or Gentoo)
• Added the VMS associated with the trem-servers client
• Deleted the extra source code from the .zip to decrease file size
+ Made edits to the autogen.cfg:
 - Start with name "NewPlayer"
 - Autodownload enabled
 - Lagometer enabled
 - Brightness increased
 - Server-unique GUID enabled
 - Sensitivity increased to 15
 - Start with list set to "online" (player still must click "get new list")

Requests:
• An organized help file with only simple, useful information.  I may make this myself, but I'll gladly use someone else's.
• Anything else I should edit in the autogen.cfg?

* Please don't tell me to use a different client, I don't really want to bother with clients at this point in time;  For now I'll just use the client I've been using.

[player1]

There have been many cogent argument raised as to why autodownload should be enabled by the user, and not by default. Perhaps a simple message on startup that points the way to turning it on would be best (which could happen every time the game is started up, until the user clicks the "Don't show this message again" checkbox).

Thanks for putting this together, and I urge you to research and reconsider the autodownload toggle. I would rather see the user instructed and empowered, instead of just having too many things done to make it easy for the n00bly, at the expense of the individual user's sovereignty and security.

Cheers

(P.S. Also, if you can figure out how to have such messages or dialog boxes appear during startup, perhaps one which reminds new users to click "Get New List" would also be useful.)

Perhaps a "Welcome to Tremulous" message at startup, which explains some of the features of the "new" client, and directs the player to appropriate controls would be most helpful. Again, thanks for your efforts, and good luck with any enhancements.

[danmal]

Could I possibly suggest you use an installer like installjammer so that shortcuts, etc can be created for the user? Not only that but you could even easily ask whether auto-download should be enabled in the installer and then modify the .cfg file from the installer. It's very easy to use.

Regarding the Mac Trem client. There appears to be only one file inside which I assume is a universal binary.

[rotacak]

Little essay

I don't know why everyone bother about that autodownload should be off by default. Can I ask who here using autodownload off because he want it off? There is many software around and nobody care about "autodownload". When you compile your own qvm - you inspecting all 200 000 lines of code (of how many) if there is something bad/backdoor/bug? Of course you not. You will compile it, using it and you feel safe. You will take precompiled tremded and feel safe. You will use tremfusion, mg client and many more things and feel safe. But wait - autodownload is on? It's unsafe (anyway you will put autodownload on manually - so no point here)!

I compiled Mangos - World of Warcraft emulator. 500 000 lines of source code. Is there any backdoor? Is there autodownload on? Hell I don't know and I don't care. I created new user on linux for mangos, new access to mysql and end of story. Do what you want mangos.

If autodownload is bad, if it is so bad thing, so big security hole, then whole tremulous/qvm potentionaly is. And if you believe in this and you install this on your company computer, then it is your fault. Like any other software.

I think that 90% tremulous players will reinstal his OS every month, they even don't know about autodownload and they have more viruses in computer than regular software. They are disconnected from server due to autodownload off. Even if they will download something bad trough autodownload on, nothing extra happen. They expecting next reinstall soon.
9% players can turn autodownload on, like me.
1% never turn autodownload on because they want it off (this is only reserve)

It's same like when you want to try some modded server, you need to have autodownload on and you cannot inspect source codes, because you downloading qvm. Even on MG servers. Do you think you can trust MG? If you are so scared by autodownload on, you can trust NODOBY. For persons like that is tremulous bad choice like 99% other software on the world.

I agree, window with "do you want download this?" before downloading is good thing. But in reality it will solve nothing about security. Only 90% will be not disconnected, 9% will turn it on with more friendly way and 1% without change. Same with default autodownload on - 90% will be not disconnected, 9% not need turn anything on, 1% will never download that client.

 

[Amanieu]

Tremfusion now has a download prompt that will ask the user whether he wants to download files or not when he connects to a server. I think that solves the issue

[Hendrich]

Amanieu, does TremFusion solves every issue?

[Kitashi]

Could I possibly suggest you use an installer like installjammer so that shortcuts, etc can be created for the user? Not only that but you could even easily ask whether auto-download should be enabled in the installer and then modify the .cfg file from the installer. It's very easy to use.

Regarding the Mac Trem client. There appears to be only one file inside which I assume is a universal binary.

I think I'll use installjammer for the shortcuts because I think that's a great idea.  As for autodownload:  In my opinion, it'd be best if by default it's enabled for conveniency, but make a note of it to users for customization and security.  New users will want something they can pick up and use, then customize it if they like it.  When the customization comes before the usage, it becomes a chore because they're putting forth work on something they may not even like.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that I don't know what Mac users would use with the binary.  I never do compiling of any sort.

[danmal]

Amanieu, does TremFusion solves every issue?

World hunger is still on the TODO list.

I forgot to mention that I don't know what Mac users would use with the binary.  I never do compiling of any sort.

Sorry I'm not too sure what you're getting at here.

You can even put a little note in the installer warning that auto-download is enabled and giving instructions on how to disable it. That would probably satisfy all parties really (it probably won't but ohh well. They can just not use it then?).

[Kitashi]

Sorry I'm not too sure what you're getting at here.

I'm just saying that I have no clue what to do with the binary, so if someone could give a more detailed explanation, I'd appreciate it; otherwise, I don't know what to tell new Tremulous players on a Mac OS about the binary.

You can even put a little note in the installer warning that auto-download is enabled and giving instructions on how to disable it. That would probably satisfy all parties really (it probably won't but ohh well. They can just not use it then?).

I'll probably do that, sounds like the easiest and best plan so far on that issue.  As a comment about pleasing people, I'm going to aim to please the people who don't want to do much, because I know if I was new to a game I'd want things to work easily that way I can work on breaking (er, customizing) things once I know how it's supposed to work.

[danmal]

I'm just saying that I have no clue what to do with the binary, so if someone could give a more detailed explanation, I'd appreciate it; otherwise, I don't know what to tell new Tremulous players on a Mac OS about the binary.

It's pretty much exactly the same as the Windows/Linux binary. Just copy it over to where ever you have Trem installed (my location is /Applications/Tremulous/ but it can vary).

[Kitashi]

So mac users can use the binary file like windows users use an executable file?

[frazzler]

I completely disagree with everything you just said. Mostly because the file is like 100mb and thats really not a big file.

[danmal]

So mac users can use the binary file like windows users use an executable file?

Yep pretty much.

I completely disagree with everything you just said. Mostly because the file is like 100mb and thats really not a big file.

Umm... who are you disagreeing with?

[Kitashi]

So mac users can use the binary file like windows users use an executable file?

Yep pretty much.

K, I'll include it, but it does have more than one file in it, it appears.  For example, there's cgameppc.dylib, gameppc.dylib, and uippc.dylib.  Would all the files be collectively viewed as one object on Mac OS?

I completely disagree with everything you just said. Mostly because the file is like 100mb and thats really not a big file.

Umm... who are you disagreeing with?

I'd like to know that as well

[frazzler]

Im talking to you Kitashi. Why make the file smaller if it is already a small file? It's like cleaning up your house so that the house-cleaner has an easier job.

[danmal]

K, I'll include it, but it does have more than one file in it, it appears.  For example, there's cgameppc.dylib, gameppc.dylib, and uippc.dylib.  Would all the files be collectively viewed as one object on Mac OS?

Yeah, it's seen as one file on a Mac.

[Kitashi]

Im talking to you Kitashi. Why make the file smaller if it is already a small file? It's like cleaning up your house so that the house-cleaner has an easier job.

If you're talking about me removing the source code, there's really two reasons.  1) What new player is going to need the source code?  2) Not everyone has an awesome download speed, so removing unnecessary files could be helpful.  The main purpose of the edited zip isn't to make the download smaller, it's to make it more convenient for new players, but I decided to remove the source code for those two reasons.

[rotacak]

And source code in tremulous instalation pack is hundred years old and buggy, noone will use it ever anyway.

[gimhael]

On the other hand you have to distribute the source, or you're not allowed to distribute the binary.

[Bissig]

On the other hand you have to distribute the source, or you're not allowed to distribute the binary.

It is enough to point/link to the source.

[Kitashi]

On the other hand you have to distribute the source, or you're not allowed to distribute the binary.

It is enough to point/link to the source.

Then I'll just include the default download link in the README.txt.  That has the source code in it.  I'm glad someone pointed that out, though; I wouldn't want to get in trouble for something as simple as that.

[frazzler]

Im talking to you Kitashi. Why make the file smaller if it is already a small file? It's like cleaning up your house so that the house-cleaner has an easier job.

If you're talking about me removing the source code, there's really two reasons.  1) What new player is going to need the source code?  2) Not everyone has an awesome download speed, so removing unnecessary files could be helpful.  The main purpose of the edited zip isn't to make the download smaller, it's to make it more convenient for new players, but I decided to remove the source code for those two reasons.

There is already an option to not download the source code, but hey, +1 for taking out. I apreciate the effort. Me as quite a serious gamer apreciate smaller files for more room.

[GlobalWarming]

Its always troublesome to try to path your tremulous to run the last version... In a fresh install will always said "go tjw website to download latest version)... I spent several hours trying to figuring out which version to use (because it is not the only one out there). So its very good idea to have a zip with all you need from the beginning.

I agree with "autodownload"... its better to turn it on and just teach how to turn it off, for those 1% that may don't want it. This is very important for the future of tremulous mapping.

[Kitashi]

Thanks for the support, everyone!  Lately I've been busying myself with a video for a Tremulous advertisement, but I'm going to finish up the zip today, upload it, and give a download link for everyone to spread around to new players.  I'll change the zip again in the future if more ideas arise, but at the moment I think I should just finish up what I already have done.

[Kitashi]

Finished my initial assembly of the package!  Because I can only upload at around 30KB/s and the file is about 105MB, I only have the .zip up, but I did make an installer for Windows and X86 also.  I encourage everyone to give me feedback and to advertise this file to others as they see fit.

.Zip File: Download (104.6MB)
Note: If the download doesn't work the first time, click the link a second time; it should work then.

[Kitashi]

I finally got my Windows installer uploaded.  I had some troubles uploading - first I forgot to put it in a zip for my file host site, now I reached my upload limit, so I have to wait till tomorrow to upload my linux installer.

Edit: I've made a few changes with the .zip and changes with my file hosts, so at the time of this post, all I have uploaded is a .zip, here.

[rotacak]

Now we need only hack tremulous.net and switch installer packages. 

[Kitashi]

Heh, I don't expect to see the installers change on the website, so the best alternative I came up with is just advertising to everyone we can to use the alternate installers.  Aside from that, we can only hope that the people who download the default installer can figure it out or ask for help.

[khalsa]

Write a wiki page with clear, detailed instructions on updating your client in all 3 major OS's, with links to this client and the other major ones and I will link to those wiki pages from tremulous.net/files.

[wiki=Tremulous_Wiki:Todo]Other stuff you can do to help also[/wiki]

Khalsa

[Asvarox]

1% of people downloading client by link from tremulous.net visit wiki... maybe less.
We need to update the packages at sourceforge.net or at least add big red banner under "Files" category saying that you have to update the client after downloading.