Author Topic: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous  (Read 7926 times)

tuple

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Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« on: May 14, 2009, 03:29:50 am »
This is either the most idiotic idea I've ever had (unlikely if you've heard some of my more idiotic ideas :P )
or the most brilliant I've ever had.  Clearly it is either insanely stupid or insanely beautiful, but there's an outside chance that it could work.

I'll start with the most basic change from most servers.  Give everyone !setlevel on PureTremulous!!

Thats right, you heard it, give everyone setlevel and clear all the bans!  Maybe other servers have tried this (and if they have I'd love to hear how it worked out) but I don't know of any.  Now for some background for those who don't mind my blathering ;)

I've always been interested in self organizing and/or self regulating structures.  The first server I ever set up gave every member of MG level 5 admin which gave them the ability as a group to create admins as they saw fit.  Part of the reason that method had problems was that any level 5 admin (superuser) could turn anyone into another superuser.  Strangely enough, this new concept may overcome the flaws of the earlier idea in that an admin that disagrees with any other admin of the same or a lower level's decision can change it!  Or a higher level admin can promote another if they make a good decision!  The beauty is that no admin can promote themselves or another admin above their level, they can only be promoted by a higher level admin.

I've always thought that rules are a poor replacement for a system that cannot care for itself.  A cheap replacement for an imbalanced system of self regulation, as necesarry as rules often are.  This is my experiment to see if such a self regulating system could exist for a game server.

This could fail in a most spectacular way filled with teen drama (no offense to you sensible teens out there ;) ) and admin battles, but it could actually end up kinda working.  I can imagine all sorts of scenarios that could explode into a mess, and a lot of scenarios that could fix them.  The key is that almost noone will know who else on the server is actually an admin, so an admin who abuses their power could be busted down a couple levels by a higher level admin who's on or hears about it and thinks they're acting like an ass.

Ultimately I'll be the final say, with the ability to bust everyone down a couple levels or to add flags to any admin's account to add/restrict abilities which is the downside from my perspective :)  On the plus side, I tend to let things take care of themselves, so admins will have to get pretty bad in my view for me to start busting ass.

Am I doing this to populate PureTremulous?  Not really.  I can't imagine asking Ozzy or an operator on a popular server to annihilate their present admin setup for an experiment that could explode spectacularly,  and I have full control of PureTremulous, so why not try it there?

In any event, if you !register yourself, you may get admin levels from anyone, or not, who knows.  If it works, it could be a model for other servers to follow.  If it doesn't, we'll at least get a good laugh out of it ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 03:53:08 am by tuple »

Einstein

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 03:39:43 am »
neat idea, albeit not original. I might stop by and see how chaotic (or empty) things are. ;)

Hendrich

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 03:50:58 am »
I might check in to see the madness, this sounds interesting.

mooseberry

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 03:57:08 am »
Can I get admin?
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player1

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Re: can haz superuser
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 06:29:17 am »
I applaud your sense of adventure and willingness to allow systems to regulate themselves. Cheers!

Here's hoping it doesn't produce too many amusing threads of "moar drammer pl0x".

:P ;) :D

Archangel

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yes????
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 06:40:55 am by Archangel »

tuple

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 11:59:15 am »
Not that superuser, I meant the server admin superuser ;) .  Traditionally lvl5 though I guess its really rcon/console.


Here's hoping it doesn't produce too many amusing threads of "moar drammer pl0x".

I have a very low tolerance for beggers and whiners, as an admin in a system such as this I may have a tendency to demote for it ;) so I suppose there could be amusing drama threads  :D

neat idea, albeit not original.
Not original how?  I mean, has another server tried this?  Another game?  /me curious
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 01:43:40 pm by tuple »

Urcscumug

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 06:31:47 pm »
Public wiki websites use a very similar idea. I mean really public sites, with no login requirement, where any visitor can destroy everything, yet they don't. This page attempts to explain why.
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Bissig

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 08:31:27 pm »
Public wiki websites use a very similar idea. I mean really public sites, with no login requirement, where any visitor can destroy everything, yet they don't. This page attempts to explain why.

They don't? I guess that is due to the nature that Wikis support "reverting" pages. That is the only thing that keeps unmoderated/unauthenticated Wikis alive.

Einstein

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 09:10:06 am »
neat idea, albeit not original.
Not original how?  I mean, has another server tried this?  Another game?  /me curious

I don't think it's been formally installed as a policy on any Tremulous server, but there are a number of systems and communities that are both self-moderated and dynamically changing like this, as Urcscumug pointed out. The challenge becomes avoiding a collapse by either stupidity or malice, while still keeping it relatively open to newcomers. It's easy to maintain if you give a small number of founders admin and let that trickle down to the overlapping circles of trusted users that they know of, but when you start being open-minded and trusting many people as one would hope we could, eventually some vandal will get ahold of a formidable level and do some damage. I encourage this open-mindedness, however, and think it will be interesting to see what becomes of this revived server and its formerly dwindling community.

Also, for the record, I had great fun tonight, folks. I look forward to many more excellent games on PT. :D

Annihilation

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2009, 07:17:01 pm »
There goes my admin on PT Lol,  its gonna be a race to see who can demote power faster :P
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Urcscumug

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2009, 11:14:28 pm »
They don't? I guess that is due to the nature that Wikis support "reverting" pages. That is the only thing that keeps unmoderated/unauthenticated Wikis alive.

No, I actually meant they don't. There's less "defacing" of such completely open wiki's than you'd think. I think the reasons on the page I linked to are valid. Basically, there's absolutely no challenge, and if the wiki has rich content and is well kept it makes people respect that.

The only serious trouble they have is with bots that post spam links to V1a6ra sites, but there are methods to take care of that.

Getting back on topic: it's the people that will make or break this experiment. The concept is not as alien as you'd think. Consider an open forum where anybody can come and act stupid (not stupid enough to be outright banned by an admin, but still ruin it for everybody). What usually stops him (or them)? A unified reaction from the others.
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David

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 01:51:40 am »
There is no point screwing with a wiki, one click and it's reverted, so you accomplish nothing.
On a game server, if you ruin a game, it's ruined.  There's no going back in time to fix it, so the trolls have pissed people off, which I assume is their goal.
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tuple

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Re: Tuples "Admin for All" Experiment on PureTremulous
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2009, 01:41:13 pm »
Ultimately, this is not the same as a wiki.  That everyone can setlevel means lvl1s can setlevel 0s and 1s.  Its not as if anyone can walk up and cause issues with it.  Perhaps a better analogy to wikis is that others watch someone contribute and as a result, promote that someone to an increased level of authority/information over the contributions of others, someone who is able to affect others so that they too can gain more authority/information.  A player who walks in off of the street can really do very little.  Players with more authority have more control over the situation but more importantly, can create other admins with an equal level of authority.  I guess I would say that the admins are comparable to wiki editors ;) able to see increasing levels of information about other users and take actions against them that would protect the game or the server.

A player who damages games, the equivalent to defacing a wiki, will never gain the additional authority/information available on the server.  Maybe that doesn't matter to them, but if it does than that authority/power will be available from anyone with the power to give it(or take it away), not limited to a very few high level admins who may never play when that individual does or who may never play when the server most needs an admin.

That is definitely NOT my rambling record.  I'll keep working on it  :)