Author Topic: World Politics  (Read 96092 times)

KamikOzzy

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Re: U.S & Heating Bills
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2009, 01:13:22 am »
like with underfloor heating

Yeah!

I've installed a lot of these suckers and from feedback I've received, they work really well.
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MitSugna

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Re: U.S & Nukes
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2009, 01:20:57 am »
Unless you have nukes, don't make US angry. Because they have.
Also if you don't have any nukes, they won't allow you to make. Because it is against freedom and world peace.

Ryanw4390

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Re: U.S & Future?
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2009, 04:20:42 am »
Also, Ron Paul on economics.


I'd go with a Ron Paul on everything and call it a day :D

Unless you have nukes, don't make US angry. Because they have.
Also if you don't have any nukes, they won't allow you to make. Because it is against freedom and world peace.

Yeah I live in the US and it seems like bullshit that no one new to the game can make nuclear weapons. The rest of the world should really start standing up for themselves with things like that and take care of the problems in their own regions and keep the US out, although I'm not sure how willing the US would be to sit on the sidelines...
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Mario

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Re: U.S & Future?
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2009, 06:38:20 am »
Quote
I'd go with a Ron Paul on everything and call it a day :D

Agreed. This is why I was turned on to our economic situation and our monetary policy. I would of never paid attention to it if it weren't for him. He's concerned, so am I
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 06:48:51 am by Mario »
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mooseberry

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Re: U.S & Future?
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2009, 06:58:23 am »
Unless you have nukes, don't make US angry. Because they have.
Also if you don't have any nukes, they won't allow you to make. Because it is against freedom and world peace.

Yeah I live in the US and it seems like bullshit that no one new to the game can make nuclear weapons. The rest of the world should really start standing up for themselves with things like that and take care of the problems in their own regions and keep the US out, although I'm not sure how willing the US would be to sit on the sidelines...

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you actually advocating that more countries in the world should have nukes? Clearly you do not remember/ have not learned anything about the period commonly known as the cold war.

While it may be hypocritical of the USA to do such a thing, I can not believe anyone would say we should allow other countries to create nuclear weapons.


As for the energy efficency in houses, god you don't even want to know how much I know about that stuff. I grew up in a household filled with nothing but energy efficency. Currently I'm working on a house in California getting it down to insulation levels of a passive house (mostly covering the seams with this compound and installing additional insallation.(see Bissig's link) I've been inside the first passive house built in the USA (In Minnesota, if you're curious) The house I grew up in now has solar panels and often generates negative electric bills. AC's, while I think they can be nice, really are an inefficient way to cool buildings. While growing your own crops can be good, don't expect (nor should you want) everyone to do so. (This is the thing hummanity took thousands of years to grow out of.)

I think energy efficency is just the way it's going to have to be from now on, not only should everyone have it, 10 to 15 years in the future, the costs of having an un-efficient house will just be awful. Not to mention the (hopeful) social ostrazism that will occour in the 20 or so years from driving a hummer and owning a really in efficent house. (Like saying you still eat other humans, kind of ;P )

I'd be interested as to what other people think of this. Sorry if it's derailed a bit from the original topic, but there are certainly correlations, and I find this whole discussion to have been very interesting thus far.
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Ryanw4390

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2009, 07:47:02 am »
I'm just saying everyone has a right to have nuclear weapons if one country can have them.
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KamikOzzy

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2009, 08:09:26 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.
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Ryanw4390

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2009, 09:40:25 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.
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Rocinante

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Re: U.S & Future?
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2009, 01:04:37 pm »
As for the energy efficency in houses, god you don't even want to know how much I know about that stuff. I grew up in a household filled with nothing but energy efficency. Currently I'm working on a house in California getting it down to insulation levels of a passive house (mostly covering the seams with this compound and installing additional insallation.(see Bissig's link) I've been inside the first passive house built in the USA (In Minnesota, if you're curious) The house I grew up in now has solar panels and often generates negative electric bills. AC's, while I think they can be nice, really are an inefficient way to cool buildings.

Being a homeowner myself now (and watching energy bills climb up during the hot and cold parts of the year) I'd love to hear your thoughts on passive buildings.  Google has yielded some interesting results, but you seem to work "in the field" so I'd be interested in your ideas.  Since some areas of the country have more temperature fluctuations than others, some ideas don't work as well (such as heat pumps or wet cooling); Is it feasible to try to get a building to be passive or close to it in the Northeast?
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janev

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Re: U.S & Tax reform
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2009, 02:12:37 pm »
To go off on a different subject what do you all think about the tax system in the states?

From the people I have spoken to I've heard that there is a great deal that could be improved in the American tax system. The predominant point among pundits has been that the poor get fleeced with a flat-rate tax to pay for the excesses of the rich who through bookkeeping wizardry reduce their taxes to zero. I do not advocate adopting the taxes we have up here in Scandinavia I am just curious as to what you all think.

Rocinante
Northeast is still a large area.. Are we talking Coastal damp climate with a lesser degree of temperature variation but with strong winds or the colder than hell part near the Canadian border(great lakes) fluctuating between - 50 C and + 40 C?

My assumptions are that you are working with a ready house and that you are somewhere in the great lakes area. You could look into:
a) massive fireplaces that burn big logs and store the heat for days. Player1 posted a link to something along those lines but there are many good designs. The key is to get one that is more about the functional heating ability than being a centrepiece. That does not mean it has to be ugly. reference a finnish manufacturer of heat-retaining fireplaces  Those trees will grow back after all and the only cost is to harvest them which if done correctly can be affordable. You gotta love low-tech! If you do go ahead make sure you find a competent person to build it since it is a large investment and you don't want one that is not functional or looks like shit.

b) Windows and insulation. Choose the right kind of windows and insulation for your climate. I don't really know that much about it but you can harvest quite a bit of heat even in winter with skylight style windows. Could you add something here mooseberry? 

c) Energy efficient appliances and using what you have efficiently. As you probably already know anything plugged in is leaching a little power that adds up over time.

d) The French use shutters on their windows insulate from the cold and to shade the windows to prevent the heat coming in.

If you are building from scratch you get more options. I am no expert but a good fireplace that stores heat for a few days inside a well insulated house should go a long way for the winter months.
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Silver

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2009, 01:54:30 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

You also have to consider, that if our country just started using nukes for no reason, our people would get pissed, the current president would be ripped out of office, and unelss they started going after us, which I really doubt the military would, we'd completely revolutionize very fast.  The majority of the other countries out there trying to get nukes are under dictatorship, and would use them for whatever the hell they want without their people having any say.  Then its not a country having nuclear power, its a small selective group of proven psychopaths.  If Iran finishes up what they're doing, you can probably expect World War 3.  Because Isreal is going to go in there and blow up all their plants to save their own asses and everyone else is telling Isreal they can't even though Iran has publically announced several times that they hate the rest of the world and want them dead.  Personally, I think we should work towards having no nuclear weapons in the whole world, but unfortunately we have to start with everyone else.  Because we are more forward for peace and no one having nuclear weapons and places like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and others are more for only them having nuclear bombs so they can blow up everyone else without reprecussions. 

You don't let someone with a DUI drive a car, why should you let war mongerers have nukes?  International policies and interference have to occur at some level or we will bash ourselves into a world war again within the matter of 10-15 years. If we go into another world war with the amount of nuclear weapons that the world has right now, we won't come out of it.  You can expect half to two thirds the population of the world to die in the war or be death of the after cause.  The US alone holds more nuclear power than it'd take to light the entire face of land of the entire planet.  I'd rather not have everyone using bombs that kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands instantly with terrible after effects and mass suffering in a petty fight over who's dog could beat up who's.  Right now our dog could beat up everyone else's dog so we need to use that to our advantage to avoid world war.  It sounds bad, but what choice do we have?  It's been proven over and over that peace does not work itself out, peace has to be founded and made happen.  Sometimes, there are necessary steps that go against morals in order to establish peace, but this is not utopia and getting blood on your hand for the greater good unfortunately is one of the only options we have left.
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mooseberry

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Re: U.S & Future?
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2009, 03:36:19 am »
Ok, I'm going to try and cover some ground in this post.  :P
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

Sure, I too would rather live in a world where nuclear weapons did not exist. However, we have them for the same reason we started working on improving our nuclear weapons right after WWII. (If someone has nukes, and we don't, or have much better nukes we may possibly be screwed.) And most people don't want to risk the lives of millions of people on Russia/China/France/whoever who has nukes to not nuke us. It's sad, but that's just how it is.

As for the energy efficency in houses, god you don't even want to know how much I know about that stuff. I grew up in a household filled with nothing but energy efficency. Currently I'm working on a house in California getting it down to insulation levels of a passive house (mostly covering the seams with this compound and installing additional insallation.(see Bissig's link) I've been inside the first passive house built in the USA (In Minnesota, if you're curious) The house I grew up in now has solar panels and often generates negative electric bills. AC's, while I think they can be nice, really are an inefficient way to cool buildings.

Being a homeowner myself now (and watching energy bills climb up during the hot and cold parts of the year) I'd love to hear your thoughts on passive buildings.  Google has yielded some interesting results, but you seem to work "in the field" so I'd be interested in your ideas.  Since some areas of the country have more temperature fluctuations than others, some ideas don't work as well (such as heat pumps or wet cooling); Is it feasible to try to get a building to be passive or close to it in the Northeast?

Well, like janev said, there is difference in temperature in different areas of the "Northeast," however, you should be fine. The real temperature challenge in building "passive" houses and similar in the USA, isn't the actual heat/cold of the area, it's the fact that because passive houses are a relatively new concept (especially in the USA) that there isn't much actually known about how to construct it for the area. For example, it's a real challenge out here in California, because there really hasn't been anything done in the field in this area. Where you live however, the climate will likely be closer to that of Germany's, and thus there will be examples to draw on. In California we're having to do a lot of guesswork as to the proper amounts of things for this climate, however if done right a passive-style house can work just about anywhere.

Something can be very helpful for many people, especially in cold areas where you live is the insulation, similar to what we're doing here. In California here it rarely gets under 40 during the day and ~25-30 during the night, so you will likely need a bit more in terms of heating, however if our calculations are correct, we expect the house to be able to use their heat for 30 min in the morning, and 30 min at night, and the whole house will be warm for the entire day.

I'm not sure what you mean by my "thoughts." If you have any other specific questions I'll do my best to answer them.

Solar panels are a great way to save electricity costs, and the environment at the same time, but if you plan on moving in less than 8 years I wouldn't bother, anything over 10 years and you'll start to see profit for sure. And that's just buying solar panels yourself, there are now many government programs/corporate options to help pay for the cost. You can get loans with 0 down payment and very low interest from places which can help with the cost.

@Janev and Rocinante too: Those fireplaces sure are a better choice than your standard fireplace, but when it comes down to it, a fireplace in a standard house really isn't that great. (It get exponentially less helpful if your house was built before around 1990.) Because of the typically poor insulation in most American houses, any heat you send into the room from the fireplace is usually all going to be sucked outside in a matter of an hour or so, minutes if you have an older house. What this means is that all you are doing from burning your wood is heating a space +-15 feet around the fireplace. This is no help if you are 40 feet away in your bedroom or wherever. As I'm sure you know, the way a modern thermostat works is it regulates the temperature in your house by measuring the temperature and then if it is colder than your set level, increasing heat. When it has reached your desired temperature it shuts off, and waits until the temperature drops again, thus saving energy. The problem is again with leaks, if your heat is constantly escaping outside you need to have the heat going all the time just to keep the house warm. With proper insulation, you can have the heater on for only about an hour a day, as I mentioned earlier. Another important thing in saving heat and energy and money is mechanical ventilation. (Not the life saving technique you'll likely find if you search Wikipedia :P ) What this mostly does is channels your old stale air outside, and transfers all the heat to the intake valves, thereby warming a lot of the incoming air without needing extra heat from the thermostat.

On another side of electricity saving is CFLs, or Compact Fluorescent Lighting. This is one thing which I can not understand why more people aren't using it. I can understand people's hesitation to use solar, (long term investments + a lot of hassle to set up) but CFLs are instant money savers. Here is a quote from Wikipedia:
"While the purchase price of an integrated CFL is typically 3 to 10 times greater than that of an equivalent incandescent lamp, the extended lifetime and lower energy use will more than compensate for the higher initial cost.[19] A US article stated "A household that invested $90 in changing 30 fixtures to CFLs would save $440 to $1,500 over the five-year life of the bulbs, depending on your cost of electricity. Look at your utility bill and imagine a 12% discount to estimate the savings."[20]"

Next... Ah yes windows. These are a big way to lower your energy bill as they are the source of a lot leaking. If you can afford it, triple pane windows are the way to go, they allow pretty much 0 air to leak through, and will help keep your house warm/cool. (You would likely be very surprised at how much old windows leak.) If you ever see blower-door testing of a house (closing all windows and doors in a house, and than opening one door and covering it with a tarp with a hole in it for a fan, thus allowing you to blow air into the house to find where it escapes) you'll find that hundreds of square feet of air per min (typical measuring unit for this) escape through windows. I would advise to look around for places to buy good insulated windows (and doors too if you can) to see what you can afford. Speaking of doors, if you have any older rolling doors, those often leak a lot, tri-fold doors are the best way to go.

OH EDIT: I think this was briefly mentioned somewhere in the thread previously, but unpluging various electronics can save a lot of energy. I used to think this wasn't much of a big deal, but if you look it up you'll see "vampire electronics" can end up using quite a bit of electricity (and thus costing you more money.) The best way to deal with this is to buy a few 6 (or so) plug outlet strips, and plug them in in various places where you have a lot of electronics plugged in. (Office, kitchen, etc.) Switch all your various devices to be plugged into outlets, and then when you leave home, or go to sleep, flip the power switch to shut it all down. Turn the power switch back on when you come home, or wake up, and you are easily saving youself money.

Doing my best to explain the technology and such that we have been discussing. If anyone has questions feel free to ask. I don't claim to be any super expert, but I do know a lot about this, and I'll do my best to help. Rocinante, I'm sure you didn't mean this much info :P and I know you probably aren't going to be running off to do a bunch of changes, but what I mentioned are some of the best ideas/ways for saving energy and money that I know of.

@Silver: The USA (I assume that is what "our country" is) is not going to just go nuking people (I really hope) but there's something called MAD, which is, thus far the best defensive strategy we (or anyone) have for nukes. Of course, if some crazy dictator or some such person got his hands on such a device, I would certainetly be worried.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 04:55:47 am by mooseberry »
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Ryanw4390

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2009, 05:49:15 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

You also have to consider, that if our country just started using nukes for no reason, our people would get pissed, the current president would be ripped out of office, and unelss they started going after us, which I really doubt the military would, we'd completely revolutionize very fast.  The majority of the other countries out there trying to get nukes are under dictatorship, and would use them for whatever the hell they want without their people having any say.  Then its not a country having nuclear power, its a small selective group of proven psychopaths.  If Iran finishes up what they're doing, you can probably expect World War 3.  Because Isreal is going to go in there and blow up all their plants to save their own asses and everyone else is telling Isreal they can't even though Iran has publically announced several times that they hate the rest of the world and want them dead.  Personally, I think we should work towards having no nuclear weapons in the whole world, but unfortunately we have to start with everyone else.  Because we are more forward for peace and no one having nuclear weapons and places like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and others are more for only them having nuclear bombs so they can blow up everyone else without reprecussions. 

You don't let someone with a DUI drive a car, why should you let war mongerers have nukes?  International policies and interference have to occur at some level or we will bash ourselves into a world war again within the matter of 10-15 years. If we go into another world war with the amount of nuclear weapons that the world has right now, we won't come out of it.  You can expect half to two thirds the population of the world to die in the war or be death of the after cause.  The US alone holds more nuclear power than it'd take to light the entire face of land of the entire planet.  I'd rather not have everyone using bombs that kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands instantly with terrible after effects and mass suffering in a petty fight over who's dog could beat up who's.  Right now our dog could beat up everyone else's dog so we need to use that to our advantage to avoid world war.  It sounds bad, but what choice do we have?  It's been proven over and over that peace does not work itself out, peace has to be founded and made happen.  Sometimes, there are necessary steps that go against morals in order to establish peace, but this is not utopia and getting blood on your hand for the greater good unfortunately is one of the only options we have left.

You bring up some good points except for the part where you think the people of the US, UK, and France actually have a say when nukes should be used. It's not like we had a vote before the US bombed Japan.
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mooseberry

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2009, 06:13:33 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

You also have to consider, that if our country just started using nukes for no reason, our people would get pissed, the current president would be ripped out of office, and unelss they started going after us, which I really doubt the military would, we'd completely revolutionize very fast.  The majority of the other countries out there trying to get nukes are under dictatorship, and would use them for whatever the hell they want without their people having any say.  Then its not a country having nuclear power, its a small selective group of proven psychopaths.  If Iran finishes up what they're doing, you can probably expect World War 3.  Because Isreal is going to go in there and blow up all their plants to save their own asses and everyone else is telling Isreal they can't even though Iran has publically announced several times that they hate the rest of the world and want them dead.  Personally, I think we should work towards having no nuclear weapons in the whole world, but unfortunately we have to start with everyone else.  Because we are more forward for peace and no one having nuclear weapons and places like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and others are more for only them having nuclear bombs so they can blow up everyone else without reprecussions. 

You don't let someone with a DUI drive a car, why should you let war mongerers have nukes?  International policies and interference have to occur at some level or we will bash ourselves into a world war again within the matter of 10-15 years. If we go into another world war with the amount of nuclear weapons that the world has right now, we won't come out of it.  You can expect half to two thirds the population of the world to die in the war or be death of the after cause.  The US alone holds more nuclear power than it'd take to light the entire face of land of the entire planet.  I'd rather not have everyone using bombs that kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands instantly with terrible after effects and mass suffering in a petty fight over who's dog could beat up who's.  Right now our dog could beat up everyone else's dog so we need to use that to our advantage to avoid world war.  It sounds bad, but what choice do we have?  It's been proven over and over that peace does not work itself out, peace has to be founded and made happen.  Sometimes, there are necessary steps that go against morals in order to establish peace, but this is not utopia and getting blood on your hand for the greater good unfortunately is one of the only options we have left.

You bring up some good points except for the part where you think the people of the US, UK, and France actually have a say when nukes should be used. It's not like we had a vote before the US bombed Japan.

Well see, we have this thing called democracy... (That means we don't vote on every little thing, but we vote on leaders who vote on things.)
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Silver

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2009, 06:22:45 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

You also have to consider, that if our country just started using nukes for no reason, our people would get pissed, the current president would be ripped out of office, and unelss they started going after us, which I really doubt the military would, we'd completely revolutionize very fast.  The majority of the other countries out there trying to get nukes are under dictatorship, and would use them for whatever the hell they want without their people having any say.  Then its not a country having nuclear power, its a small selective group of proven psychopaths.  If Iran finishes up what they're doing, you can probably expect World War 3.  Because Isreal is going to go in there and blow up all their plants to save their own asses and everyone else is telling Isreal they can't even though Iran has publically announced several times that they hate the rest of the world and want them dead.  Personally, I think we should work towards having no nuclear weapons in the whole world, but unfortunately we have to start with everyone else.  Because we are more forward for peace and no one having nuclear weapons and places like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and others are more for only them having nuclear bombs so they can blow up everyone else without reprecussions. 

You don't let someone with a DUI drive a car, why should you let war mongerers have nukes?  International policies and interference have to occur at some level or we will bash ourselves into a world war again within the matter of 10-15 years. If we go into another world war with the amount of nuclear weapons that the world has right now, we won't come out of it.  You can expect half to two thirds the population of the world to die in the war or be death of the after cause.  The US alone holds more nuclear power than it'd take to light the entire face of land of the entire planet.  I'd rather not have everyone using bombs that kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands instantly with terrible after effects and mass suffering in a petty fight over who's dog could beat up who's.  Right now our dog could beat up everyone else's dog so we need to use that to our advantage to avoid world war.  It sounds bad, but what choice do we have?  It's been proven over and over that peace does not work itself out, peace has to be founded and made happen.  Sometimes, there are necessary steps that go against morals in order to establish peace, but this is not utopia and getting blood on your hand for the greater good unfortunately is one of the only options we have left.

You bring up some good points except for the part where you think the people of the US, UK, and France actually have a say when nukes should be used. It's not like we had a vote before the US bombed Japan.

Well see, we have this thing called democracy... (That means we don't vote on every little thing, but we vote on leaders who vote on things.)

Also, the decision was made with us in mind, we realized we were in war, and the American people were upset with pearl harbor.  It was the only way to end the war and if we hadn't done it, think of how many more lives would of been lost on all sides?  I'm saying the people wouldn't stand for it if we started nuking people for *no* reason.  Iran and other countries people wouldn't have a say or a chance to stand up against it if/when they start doing that, since their leaders have complete control of all actions/media and hate the rest of the world for no apparent reason other than hate istelf.
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Ryanw4390

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2009, 06:52:40 am »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

You also have to consider, that if our country just started using nukes for no reason, our people would get pissed, the current president would be ripped out of office, and unelss they started going after us, which I really doubt the military would, we'd completely revolutionize very fast.  The majority of the other countries out there trying to get nukes are under dictatorship, and would use them for whatever the hell they want without their people having any say.  Then its not a country having nuclear power, its a small selective group of proven psychopaths.  If Iran finishes up what they're doing, you can probably expect World War 3.  Because Isreal is going to go in there and blow up all their plants to save their own asses and everyone else is telling Isreal they can't even though Iran has publically announced several times that they hate the rest of the world and want them dead.  Personally, I think we should work towards having no nuclear weapons in the whole world, but unfortunately we have to start with everyone else.  Because we are more forward for peace and no one having nuclear weapons and places like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and others are more for only them having nuclear bombs so they can blow up everyone else without reprecussions. 

You don't let someone with a DUI drive a car, why should you let war mongerers have nukes?  International policies and interference have to occur at some level or we will bash ourselves into a world war again within the matter of 10-15 years. If we go into another world war with the amount of nuclear weapons that the world has right now, we won't come out of it.  You can expect half to two thirds the population of the world to die in the war or be death of the after cause.  The US alone holds more nuclear power than it'd take to light the entire face of land of the entire planet.  I'd rather not have everyone using bombs that kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands instantly with terrible after effects and mass suffering in a petty fight over who's dog could beat up who's.  Right now our dog could beat up everyone else's dog so we need to use that to our advantage to avoid world war.  It sounds bad, but what choice do we have?  It's been proven over and over that peace does not work itself out, peace has to be founded and made happen.  Sometimes, there are necessary steps that go against morals in order to establish peace, but this is not utopia and getting blood on your hand for the greater good unfortunately is one of the only options we have left.

You bring up some good points except for the part where you think the people of the US, UK, and France actually have a say when nukes should be used. It's not like we had a vote before the US bombed Japan.

Well see, we have this thing called democracy... (That means we don't vote on every little thing, but we vote on leaders who vote on things.)

Also, the decision was made with us in mind, we realized we were in war, and the American people were upset with pearl harbor.  It was the only way to end the war and if we hadn't done it, think of how many more lives would of been lost on all sides?  I'm saying the people wouldn't stand for it if we started nuking people for *no* reason.  Iran and other countries people wouldn't have a say or a chance to stand up against it if/when they start doing that, since their leaders have complete control of all actions/media and hate the rest of the world for no apparent reason other than hate istelf.

I don't want to argue or anything but I thought we had a Republic hahahaha its all good though I get what you mean.

But with the Media, from what I understand Corporations own the media, and corporations own the politicians, so is it really any different is it?
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Silver

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2009, 03:06:58 pm »
I dunno. I don't think anyone should have nukes, including the US, but I sure as hell don't want North Korea to have them.

Yeah now that I think about it I don't trust the nine or so countries that have the nukes now. I guess I just don't like how there is one set of rules for the US, France, UK, etc., and another for everyone else.

You also have to consider, that if our country just started using nukes for no reason, our people would get pissed, the current president would be ripped out of office, and unelss they started going after us, which I really doubt the military would, we'd completely revolutionize very fast.  The majority of the other countries out there trying to get nukes are under dictatorship, and would use them for whatever the hell they want without their people having any say.  Then its not a country having nuclear power, its a small selective group of proven psychopaths.  If Iran finishes up what they're doing, you can probably expect World War 3.  Because Isreal is going to go in there and blow up all their plants to save their own asses and everyone else is telling Isreal they can't even though Iran has publically announced several times that they hate the rest of the world and want them dead.  Personally, I think we should work towards having no nuclear weapons in the whole world, but unfortunately we have to start with everyone else.  Because we are more forward for peace and no one having nuclear weapons and places like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and others are more for only them having nuclear bombs so they can blow up everyone else without reprecussions. 

You don't let someone with a DUI drive a car, why should you let war mongerers have nukes?  International policies and interference have to occur at some level or we will bash ourselves into a world war again within the matter of 10-15 years. If we go into another world war with the amount of nuclear weapons that the world has right now, we won't come out of it.  You can expect half to two thirds the population of the world to die in the war or be death of the after cause.  The US alone holds more nuclear power than it'd take to light the entire face of land of the entire planet.  I'd rather not have everyone using bombs that kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands instantly with terrible after effects and mass suffering in a petty fight over who's dog could beat up who's.  Right now our dog could beat up everyone else's dog so we need to use that to our advantage to avoid world war.  It sounds bad, but what choice do we have?  It's been proven over and over that peace does not work itself out, peace has to be founded and made happen.  Sometimes, there are necessary steps that go against morals in order to establish peace, but this is not utopia and getting blood on your hand for the greater good unfortunately is one of the only options we have left.

You bring up some good points except for the part where you think the people of the US, UK, and France actually have a say when nukes should be used. It's not like we had a vote before the US bombed Japan.

Well see, we have this thing called democracy... (That means we don't vote on every little thing, but we vote on leaders who vote on things.)

Also, the decision was made with us in mind, we realized we were in war, and the American people were upset with pearl harbor.  It was the only way to end the war and if we hadn't done it, think of how many more lives would of been lost on all sides?  I'm saying the people wouldn't stand for it if we started nuking people for *no* reason.  Iran and other countries people wouldn't have a say or a chance to stand up against it if/when they start doing that, since their leaders have complete control of all actions/media and hate the rest of the world for no apparent reason other than hate istelf.

I don't want to argue or anything but I thought we had a Republic hahahaha its all good though I get what you mean.

But with the Media, from what I understand Corporations own the media, and corporations own the politicians, so is it really any different is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3qgiNPVpSM

Also, we have a republican democracy and albeit the corporations own the media, there is such a variety of them we're bound to get the whole story in one way or another, even if its a biased view.  In those countries they get told what they are to be told and nothing else, nothing more, and nothing less.  In Iran they even put a firewall on all sharing sites such as blogging sites, youtube, twitter, and facebook.  Even ask Amanieu why he can't watch Youtube videos when he goes to China(Albeit china is improving a lot compared to places like Iran or North Korea).

You honestly can't even consider comparing our level of control from our government to their level of control from their government.  There is no comparison, its Night and Day.
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janev

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2009, 08:43:44 pm »
Since I don't want this thread to die and nobody answered my question earlier I'll ask it again:

- Who foots the bill? Q: Is tax reform necessary and if so what would it entail?

It is fine to want "change we can believe in" but when it comes down to who pays the bill things get a little sticky... so... ideas?

If you say taxes should be raised please state what you think should be done with that extra revenue
pay off debt? improve health care? improve education? Subsidies for Industry and the financial sector?

alternatively if you think taxes should be lowered what would you save on?
armed forces? health care? education?

//off topic nukes: I read somewhere that even if there was a nuke war as far away as the Korean peninsula the dust it threw up would have major effects on the world climate. I have no clue if that was scientifically verified though so take it with a grain of salt. Regardless the mushrooms up here still "glow" from the meltdown at Chernobyl so lets not go releasing any more radioactive particles. Even if we reeeeaaallly don't like somebody//
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Jedarus

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2009, 09:38:20 pm »
I don't like guns of any kind, but I'm about to oppose them. At least the U.S. is not doing things like England, where you're guaranteed going to prison for just defending yourself with a weapon or even with an object of any kind.

gg England.

Quite true, I'm afraid. But then again, our prisons are overcrowded as it is, so they'll just let you out after about a month or so.
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Mario

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2009, 01:02:37 am »
Since this is my thread I take the responsibility of bringing it back to life. In past conversations in this thread I've voiced my opinion, as you can see, it makes people upset. That's fine with me; that's how it is.

Despite what you believe about weapons, war, religion or global warming I have one more thing to talk with you all about. I've said it before, so I'll say it here again.

http://www.usdebtclock.org

Anything else you've read about on this thread or the internet, you could of easily blown off and kept surfing. But this.. this is something that people still refuse to pay attention to. When addressing this problem I say what could happen and what you should do to try and protect yourself. I guess people don't pay attention to this, because it makes them paranoid to think otherwise. This isn't right..

Anyone with a brain and some sort of intelligence can see where we're going here. We cannot pay this back. I don't see how anyone can sit there and say our dollar isn't going to suffer some sort of way in the near (NEAR) future. Gold prices are now at record highs due to a weakened dollar. Metals mainly rise when the value of paper currency decreases.

Gold:
Dec. 1995: $387
Oct. 2009: $1060

The world isn't going to keep sitting by idle either. It's a matter of time before we default. If you would like to continue to label me a fear monger, please continue, after you've looked at these numbers. Correct me if i'm wrong here..

Printing money for war vs printing money for economy. How can we spend money to save the economy if spending money is what got us this way in the first place. You give $1000 to your low life son, and $5000 to your responsible daughter. Doesn't matter what they spend it on or what they need it for. In the end, you'll look at your wallet and you'll suddenly realize you've just lost $6000. Comments pls.
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Repatition

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2009, 01:04:36 am »
yes they need to stop printing money from thin air and burn some instead!

player1

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Re: U.$ & Crisis Management
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2009, 01:49:44 am »
Mario,

ohai again

I believe the previous administration thought that they could shoot their way out of a real reckoning, while this administration is attempting to buy its way out. Certainly, some of the money is actually reaching the local level, and some working families are being helped, at least from my very limited perspective. However, the energy consortiums, insurance and finance houses, and globalist monetary regulatory agencies seem firmly in command. Still, I fear a much more abrupt "market equalization" may occur, with the taxpayers again paying off the speculators for over-inflating the value of tulips, houses, high-fructose corn syrup, or the index value of overnight foreign currency transactions as played off against the loss on bundled bad loans. As always, certain players have hedged their bets, and human misery, the price of food, and the cost of a calorie can all be influenced. And if it all turns violent and war breaks out? That, too, as Smedley Butler tried to remind us, is just another racket.

Cheers

George Carlin knew what the fuck was up

Ron Paul knows what the fuck is up

Smedley Butler knew what the fuck was up

Danny Casalaro got too close

One of the tenets of modern crisis management is that an organization is more resilient in the face of crisis if it is maintained in a state of constant crisis. Think about organizing a government around that idea.

Mario

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2009, 02:05:46 am »
Mario,

ohai again

I believe the previous administration thought that they could shoot their way out of a real reckoning, while this administration is attempting to buy its way out. Certainly, some of the money is actually reaching the local level, and some working families are being helped, at least from my very limited perspective. However, the energy consortiums, insurance and finance houses, and globalist monetary regulatory agencies seem firmly in command. Still, I fear a much more abrupt "market equalization" may occur, with the taxpayers again paying off the speculators for over-inflating the value of tulips, houses, high-fructose corn syrup, or the index value of overnight foreign currency transactions as played off against the loss on bundled bad loans. As always, certain players have hedged their bets, and human misery, the price of food, and the cost of a calorie can all be influenced. And if it all turns violent and war breaks out? That, too, as Smedley Butler tried to remind us, is just another racket.

Cheers

George Carlin knew what the fuck was up

Ron Paul knows what the fuck is up

Smedley Butler knew what the fuck was up

Danny Casalaro got too close

One of the tenets of modern crisis management is that an organization is more resilient in the face of crisis if it is maintained in a state of constant crisis. Think about organizing a government around that idea.

Thank you sir :) I hope we can really find a solution for this. I voted Ron Paul in this election. Even my g/f who also was an Obama supporter before I explained to her our situation. She also voted Paul. I feel pretty bad he didn't get into office. We're supposed to be limiting the power of banks imo; never granting them more authority.. I see that as a mistake.
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Repatition

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2009, 02:16:30 am »
I don't like guns of any kind, but I'm about to oppose them. At least the U.S. is not doing things like England, where you're guaranteed going to prison for just defending yourself with a weapon or even with an object of any kind.

gg England.

Quite true, I'm afraid. But then again, our prisons are overcrowded as it is, so they'll just let you out after about a month or so.
If everyone had a gun there would be much less crime! believe me thiefs and murders dont expect the average person to have a weapon of defense and they can always get a gun no problem(black market,also it not hard make something very explosive).
they have tested this down in Georgia and the results? almost no crime at all!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 06:16:56 am by Repatition »

Demolution

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2009, 03:06:38 am »
If everyone had a Gun there would be much less crime! believe me thiefs and murders dont expect the average person to have a weapon of defense and they can always get a Gun no problem(black market,also it not hard make something very explosive).
they have tested this down in Georgia and the results? almost no crime at all!

Oh God...

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and i am VERY stupid.

Bissig

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2009, 03:23:05 am »
If everyone had a Gun there would be much less crime! believe me thiefs and murders dont expect the average person to have a weapon of defense and they can always get a Gun no problem(black market,also it not hard make something very explosive).
they have tested this down in Georgia and the results? almost no crime at all!

Oh God...

Is Repatition even for real?

@Mario

Now suddenly banker friendly analysts and other people close to economic circles start talking about splitting up big banks into smaller units. Flip-Flop.

Repatition

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2009, 03:26:16 am »
Quote

Is Repatition even for real?

and what does that mean?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 06:20:23 am by Repatition »

Mario

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2009, 04:01:14 am »
We've already said our peace on weapons here. Let's focus on one topic at a time, we'll move from one to another gradually.




For some people I listen to on economics if you enjoy youtube vids and have the time for them:

Ron Paul
Gerald Celente - http://www.youtube.com/user/geraldcelentechannel?blend=1&ob=4
Peter Schiff - http://www.youtube.com/user/PeterSchiffChannel?blend=2&ob=1

Other youtubers:

http://www.youtube.com/user/myspacesecrets
http://www.youtube.com/user/endlessmountain
http://www.youtube.com/user/visionvictory
http://www.youtube.com/user/demcad?blend=1&ob=4
http://www.youtube.com/user/feveriam?blend=1&ob=4
http://www.youtube.com/user/walstreetpro2?blend=1&ob=4 <-- guy is crazy lol
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mooseberry

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2009, 04:11:38 am »
I don't like guns of any kind, but I'm about to oppose them. At least the U.S. is not doing things like England, where you're guaranteed going to prison for just defending yourself with a weapon or even with an object of any kind.

gg England.

Quite true, I'm afraid. But then again, our prisons are overcrowded as it is, so they'll just let you out after about a month or so.

If everyone had a Gun there would be much less crime! believe me thiefs and murders dont expect the average person to have a weapon of defense and they can always get a Gun no problem(black market,also it not hard make something very explosive).
they have tested this down in Georgia and the results? almost no crime at all!

That quote was from a long while ago. There was plenty of time to discuss it.

Also, you can't "test" it like that. Just giving people guns and seeing if they run into crime or not doesn't prove anything.

P.S. The word "gun" is not capatilized like the word "God" would be. Interesting view into your head there.
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

मैं हिन्दी का समर्थन

~Mooseberry.

Demolution

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2009, 05:42:42 am »
I have to say that this has been one of the most interesting and engaging topics in a long time. Congrats to all. :)

@ Moose: Thy holy Gun? :P

Clan [AC] - For all your air conditioning needs please visit: http://s1.zetaboards.com/AC_NoS/index/
my brain > your brain.
and i am VERY stupid.