Author Topic: World Politics  (Read 96093 times)

janev

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2009, 08:04:59 pm »
Some thoughts on gold:
20 year chart of gold prices
36 year chart

How you can look at any single asset class and say "aha we are fucked!" is beyond me. Gold like any other investment class is not immune to speculation. Even though that is a nice increase from 1995 to 2009, what is to say this is not just another speculative bubble? Those numbers also ignore inflation. If you factor out inflation using for example the CPI-index it will show a lower gain. Yes, as far as I can tell, gold beat inflation during that period but did it beat other asset classes? For a more dramatic effect you could probably find better indicators, than gold, that the shit is going to hit the fan. Try official statistics on the size of the money supply or data on currency trades.

Some thoughts on debt:
Anyway this is not about gold as an investment. This is about debt... Spiralling national debt is a bitch isn't it... Interest slavery(more taxes), more to eventually pay off(more taxes), the threat to currency stability(inflation & buying power). It all adds up to a rather unsavoury situation but it cuts both ways. Creditors are exposed to greater default risk and debtors to an unsustainable whole in their collective bucket. No matter how you spin it there will be pain for both sides when things get out of balance and the correction comes. You could increase taxes or use inflation (the buzz word being "quantitative easing") to ease the load but nobody will ever be voted in on a promise of many lean years to come. That is probably why the proverbial whole in the bucket got so big in the first place. Another option which came up recently, which the Chinese would like, is to transfer ownership of national natural resources. Also not very popular.

An outright default is unlikely in my opinion. The damage will probably come as an erosion of purchasing power through a triple-whammy-combination of inflation, increased taxes and the dollar tanking against other currencies over a longer period of time. But hey shit like this doesn't happen overnight... Chances are you will wake up one morning and realise you got shafted by irresponsible monetary and fiscal policy and that the monumental shift has already taken place. This realisation may be accompanied by a feeling of being violated and the terrible realisation that there is fuck all you can do about it now. Alternatively you could be kicking back in Canada, more on that later.

I like this quote from an evil genius: "Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws". This is what it boils down to. Don't let the evil genius guard your money no matter which way he spins it. To understand why you may want to have a closer look at the definition of money supply. It may seem like a stupid question but try to define money then have a look at the link. As new money enters the economy it dilutes the value of all the money in circulation. If we modify your example and throw in a doubling of the money supply with real world purchasing power denoted in strippers(yes I am tired and horny today) we get:

You give $1000 to your low life son, and $5000 to your responsible daughter. Furthermore the money supply doubles. Now you realise you are 6000$ out of pocket(when you earned it you could buy a 6000$ stripper), your son and daughter have 1000$ and 5000$ respectively but now they can only buy a 500$ stripper and 2500$ stripper respectively. The difference is whoever got their hands on that new 6000$ first gets a damn fine lap dance on you.

Actually if the strippers didn't know the monetary supply was increased they might still give 1000$ and 5000$ worth of lapdances. In the end it might be the strippers that pay the price. :'( Which brings us to the fact that inflation is a bitch too. If the powers that be inflate away the debt it means crappier strippers for the average Joe. I wonder if I went offtopic there a little... damn strippers messing with my cognitive thought processes.

My conclusions:
Rather than try to prevent it, for which it might be too late anyway, how do you like the weather in Canada? It's not too late to start rolling your R's and dressing like a lumberjack.;) Debt and inflation are both bitches. This still gets nobody closer to a solution for the problem though. Kinda annoys me nobody answered my question about tax reform :D Oh well.
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Mario

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #91 on: October 25, 2009, 04:30:34 am »
Gold is fundamentally strong. It's enjoying a secular bull market as a response to the housing bubble and everything else that's broken into the U.S. economy. The billions of dollars that the fed is printing to prolong the inevitable de-leveraging of the financial markets is the strength of gold moving forward. The only way to end the gold bull we would need to have a meaningful reversal in the dollar. Market should of corrected itself with minimal interference from our government. €100 Euros = $149.97 USD, not a SHTF dramatic effect but it's proof besides gold that the USD is decreasing in its value. I didn't give this an exact time but I'm sure it's not too far off.

I would still put some sort of wealth into metals. Doesn't the risk of investing in metals far out weigh the losses if the dollar collapsed tomorrow anyway? We have paper backed by nothing but hopes and promises. I hope people aren't believing that money can just be printed out of thin air and nothing happens. Deflation has been here, inflation is coming.

I was using my example as a way of saying printing is still printing no matter what it's for btw. We have to return to some sort of sound money system because this bs is a scheme. We both know how this is going to end up if we continue.

Tried using the quote from Rothschild, ended up getting labeled a conspiracy theorist for that one too. Don't live in Canada so I have no clue how the weather is :P

p.s. If everything is corrected by the end of 2010, I'll come have a couple of big bottles of liquor with you in celebration, whatever you want :D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 04:35:01 am by Mario »
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mooseberry

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #92 on: October 25, 2009, 07:27:51 am »
Don't live in Canada so I have no clue how the weather is :P

The weather there is always wonderful.

Also, this country has some wonderful amnemeties and security too!

The only thing on topic I have to contribute, (mostly because I don't consider myself extremely well educated in financial policy) is to say that it isn't all finacial factors to this. There are many political factors, and different things inside of the broad term of finances. Countries who have money owed to them by the USA won't neccesarily be so brave/bold/brash as to demand their money upfront any time soon I don't think.
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janev

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #93 on: October 25, 2009, 11:51:52 am »
Gold is fundamentally strong. It's enjoying a secular bull market as a response to the housing bubble and everything else that's broken into the U.S. economy. The billions of dollars that the fed is printing to prolong the inevitable de-leveraging of the financial markets is the strength of gold moving forward. The only way to end the gold bull we would need to have a meaningful reversal in the dollar. Market should of corrected itself with minimal interference from our government. €100 Euros = $149.97 USD, not a SHTF dramatic effect but it's proof besides gold that the USD is decreasing in its value. I didn't give this an exact time but I'm sure it's not too far off.

I would still put some sort of wealth into metals. Doesn't the risk of investing in metals far out weigh the losses if the dollar collapsed tomorrow anyway? We have paper backed by nothing but hopes and promises. I hope people aren't believing that money can just be printed out of thin air and nothing happens. Deflation has been here, inflation is coming.

I was using my example as a way of saying printing is still printing no matter what it's for btw. We have to return to some sort of sound money system because this bs is a scheme. We both know how this is going to end up if we continue.

Tried using the quote from Rothschild, ended up getting labeled a conspiracy theorist for that one too. Don't live in Canada so I have no clue how the weather is :P

p.s. If everything is corrected by the end of 2010, I'll come have a couple of big bottles of liquor with you in celebration, whatever you want :D

I still have a hard time seeing what is fundamentally strong about a shiny piece of metal that costs over 1000$ per ounce. What intrinsic value does it have? It can be used in manufacturing and it can't be duplicated but beyond that it's price is whatever people are willing to pay for it. Sure gold has always had some value but that value fluctuates a lot, my point is buying into an asset where prices have risen so far so fast should be cause for pause. It is your call and if you want to hedge against dollar collapse go ahead... But for the love of god don't do it with a large portion of your wealth or with money you will be forced to use in the near future. If the dollar were to outright collapse (which I doubt) you would have bigger problems than worrying about your investments. A better hedge for that would probably be the much(/or little depending on where you spend your time) touted beans, bullets and band-aids. For hedging against inflation maybe some diversification out of the dollar would do the trick? Gold is not the only option you know... Whether the dollar will go up or down I really don̈́t know since all the prices are set by collective fear and greed.

The reason I think it's unlikely to collapse outright, is the political aspects mooseberry hinted at. If china were to demand payment on their dollar reserves it would plunge both countries into chaos. For one, China has geared it's industrial system to facilitate foreign demand. When that demand stops the factories go quiet and people start to riot(afaik, this is already going on). Also any sizeable withdrawal by any of the large foreign holders of the dollar would trigger a massive flight from the dollar and cause the value of the dollar they still hold to drop like a stone. I can't imagine the Japanese would enjoy their dollar savings being redeemable with yen on par with the dollar. That would be a pretty hefty haircut ;D

But yeah... I am by no means an expert on stuff like this and a voice over the internet should always be weighted with a healthy degree of distrust. Just like the folks selling gold and spinning tales of collapse I could be a charlatan. I will say this for sure though, I am in no way qualified to predict the future. Anyone who thinks they are should be regarded with an even healthier degree of scepticism. If it turns out things pick up by the end of 2010 I will be happy to have that drink with you.

@ mooseberry: Nice links, brings back memories.
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player1

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Re: Bill Moyers Knows What's Up
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2010, 05:57:20 am »

frazzler

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2010, 11:23:41 am »
American politics is headed in a good direction. Sure, you guys had an idiot running your country for eight years, but I really like where it's headed nowadays. I really like the fact that Obama actually realizes the immense power American citizens hold as consumers. I mean, as soon as USA went: "Woah, we're consuming too much, lets slow down a little", the economic crisis happened. Obama really recognizes this, and is careful about where he goes sticking his boots. The USA has been at war, every year sine WWII, and I think that pulling some peeps out of war-zones, and kind of just not really involving the USA in any of those shooty-uppy-business. Politics quite frankly, bores me to tears. Politicians should be awesome, like Kevin Rudd. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlMeYvJ9Ehw. Bloody awesome dude.

In Summary: USA's gettin better, Kevin Rudd is sikk as, and tits.

amz181

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2010, 12:24:55 pm »
The title is making me lol.

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2010, 11:23:20 pm »
no, usa is headed for imminent failure im afraid
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frazzler

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2010, 07:14:41 am »
no, usa is headed for imminent failure im afraid
Eventually, yes, but Obama is postponing the inevitable.

amz181

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2010, 04:11:54 pm »
no, usa is headed for imminent failure im afraid
Eventually, yes, but Obama is postponing the inevitable.

I smell a heated debate comin.

IMO Usa was doomed the moment the first mcdonalds was opened on its shores.

Demolution

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2010, 07:17:32 pm »
More like, since the first international bank opened.

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janev

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2010, 08:15:39 pm »
  • player1

I can't comment with any authority on your judicial system since I don't know enough about it. If that source is credible, my uneducated opinion would be that it sounds a bit fubar_ish...

  • frazzler

I'm curious... What is this magical power consumers, who are up to their eyeballs in debt, have? I wouldn't say they cut back so much as daddy took the t-bird away. Are you saying the american comsumer decided there was going to be a crisis and unadjusted unemployment would shoot up to the 15-20 percent range? Surely other things played a role... Consider for example:
- easy credit complements of a prolonged expansive monetary policy and the housing bubble
- securitization of debt, sub-prime lending and incorrect pricing of risks
- over-leveraging for households and financial institutions
- liquidity, trust and financial contagion

Well that kinda opens up a whole new can of worms and derails the topic. Anyway... It's February 22 2010 and little has changed from my point of view. The west is still massively indebted but it seems a fair amount of the panic is out of the markets... The next hurdles will be the aging demographics and that mountain of debt we've accumulated. Lets also not forget about the mess in the PIGS countries. Looks to me like the baby-boom generation is about to get a pretty raw deal.
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WiKi

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2010, 12:33:58 am »
from reading the ropic all I have to say is
FUCK THE POLICE
yap police suck they hate me for some reason O:
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player1

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Re: Bill Moyers Knows What's Up
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2010, 01:54:46 am »
janev,

Here's a video of the interview:

Bill Moyers sits down with legal analyst and journalist Jeffrey Toobin to talk about the relationship between big money and judicial elections today.

Listen to what Toobin says at around 6:30 about conservative activism (it takes him a full minute to say it). Sorry it's such a long clip. It's well worth watching the whole thing, if only to get a better perspective on the current Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts. Listen to the question Moyers asks at around 10:30, Toobin's reply, and the follow-up questions and answers.

Who these guys are:

Bill Moyers

Jeffrey Toobin

What they're talking about:

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. ___ (2010)

Cheers.

Mario

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2010, 05:08:54 am »
Just like to add that I changed the topic name to 'World Politics'.
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MitSugna

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2010, 02:55:33 pm »

janev

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2010, 07:44:39 pm »
Player1:

Well I guess it comes down to everything being bigger in Texas. There is action behind the scenes everywhere, you just do it on a grander scale on that side of the pond. I wouldn't say it's a solely conservative or democrat phenomenon but more a group-of-thugs mentality in people, where people always try to change the rulebook to suit them. It could even be argued that in a competitive society, where everybody is looking out for number one, it is a natural and beneficial phenomenon. A court is only fair if the competition for control of that court is stiff enough. Jefferson described it aptly when he said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance". Or in other words "That shit will only fly for as long as you allow it to".

Without taking a stance on how much support for elections is too much, it would seem prudent to remove the opaque smoke and mirrors so voters can follow the money and make informed decisions.

All:
Here are some interesting macroeconomic clips:
http://www.ft.com/cms/bfba2c48-5588-11dc-b971-0000779fd2ac.html?_i_referralObject=14730941&fromSearch=n
http://www.ft.com/cms/893ac9c8-757e-11dc-b7cb-0000779fd2ac.html?_i_referralObject=14719641&fromSearch=n
http://www.ft.com/cms/8a38c684-2a26-11dc-9208-000b5df10621.html?_i_referralObject=14613442&fromSearch=n
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

and to quote myself a third time since I like taxes:

Quote
- Who foots the bill? Q: Is tax reform necessary and if so what would it entail?
Inflation = Savers/pensioners get shafted
The agony of low inflation, massive debts and higher taxes = The workforce gets shafted 
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Bissig

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2010, 08:05:53 pm »
Private financed elections = the bigger show wins
Public financed elections = the currently most popular idea/least crappy bullshit wins

It is both bad, but due to its nature, private financed elections are the worst in my oppinion.

Colynn'

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2010, 11:03:09 pm »
Currently working on: REAL LIFE STUDIES BULLSHIT

mooseberry

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2010, 04:21:03 am »
To everyone posting spam in this thread: It started out well, a few people on these forums proved that they could use enough brainpower to use facts, let's try to keep it that way, no spamming stupid pictures or links which your favorite comedian told you to use. Thank you.
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

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frazzler

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Re: U.S & Politics
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2010, 04:49:10 am »
  • player1

I can't comment with any authority on your judicial system since I don't know enough about it. If that source is credible, my uneducated opinion would be that it sounds a bit fubar_ish...

  • frazzler

I'm curious... What is this magical power consumers, who are up to their eyeballs in debt, have? I wouldn't say they cut back so much as daddy took the t-bird away. Are you saying the american comsumer decided there was going to be a crisis and unadjusted unemployment would shoot up to the 15-20 percent range? Surely other things played a role... Consider for example:
- easy credit complements of a prolonged expansive monetary policy and the housing bubble
- securitization of debt, sub-prime lending and incorrect pricing of risks
- over-leveraging for households and financial institutions
- liquidity, trust and financial contagion

Well that kinda opens up a whole new can of worms and derails the topic. Anyway... It's February 22 2010 and little has changed from my point of view. The west is still massively indebted but it seems a fair amount of the panic is out of the markets... The next hurdles will be the aging demographics and that mountain of debt we've accumulated. Lets also not forget about the mess in the PIGS countries. Looks to me like the baby-boom generation is about to get a pretty raw deal.

tl;dr. Well, mainly too complicated. I don't really think the USA will ever 'succeed', but as far as Americans go, they're doing alright, and I like what The Big-O's doin with them financial handouts. G!

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mooseberry

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #112 on: February 25, 2010, 01:52:38 am »
That's just rediculous though. 700,000 dollars a year is insane. But, two things, one is I don't think this has too much to do with world politics, and two, while outrageous, if the company wants to pay him that much, they can pay him that much... As long as he isn't forcing money out of other places.
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Mario

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #113 on: February 25, 2010, 03:00:12 am »
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah I know.. I posted it just because
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 03:10:50 am by Mario »
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janev

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #114 on: February 25, 2010, 09:46:00 pm »
http://www.ft.com/cms/bfba2c48-5588-11dc-b971-0000779fd2ac.html?_i_referralObject=14822259&fromSearch=n

Interesting video clip concerning the Greek problems. Feel free to comment.
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Re: World Politics
« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2010, 04:55:31 pm »
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

janev

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2010, 05:11:14 pm »
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1967057,00.html

beat that for failure.



lol, who says natural selection is dead.... Don't change the labels.
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Bissig

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2010, 02:05:39 am »
Wow, and such an uproar about 100 dead kids A YEAR. How many die due to the crappy health system/no insurance or because of 17 yr olds who think they can drive a car?

your face

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2010, 02:24:57 am »
Yeah, the first thing a kid will want to do is read the safety label!
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mooseberry

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Re: World Politics
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2010, 06:04:36 am »
Wow, and such an uproar about 100 dead kids A YEAR. How many die due to the crappy health system/no insurance or because of 17 yr olds who think they can drive a car?

Outdated sure, but I think it can be assumed the numbers aren't too different now. --> http://www.lifesaving.com/issues/articles/13swimming_pool_drownings.html
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

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