Tremulous 1.2: The Changes

[computerquip]

I believe that in a game, there is nothing wrong with change. When people complain all the time about teams and factions being unbalanced and they try to change this, why do people complain more? Instead of looking at it in a positive view, I believe that people simply want to complain. There are people who HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE NEW RELEASE and they instantly judge it and call it bad. I will admit it's different. But has anyone even stopped to think that maybe different isn't so bad? Especially in response to this senseless and gumless post: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12076.0

The hovel was taken out because it was useless other than a low barricade which otherwise server no purpose. It was taken out.
Beginners and people who didn't use the basilisk had trouble using the basilisk due to small reach. It was increased.
The basilisk was given more purpose by become the support class of the aliens. The moving booster.
The turrets simply stack to much and the bases too heavily rely on it. It was changed.
The teslas are almost never used due to obvious reasons. It was changed.
The tyrants and dragoons already could swipe people across the room basically. Reduced.

Things I'm not sure about:

Why were the Basilisk and Marauder who already had trouble dying all the time get a health reduction?
Why is the Lucifer cannon faster (although slower at charge and can no longer be cancled)? It's still way to powerful!

 

[KamikOzzy]

You're fucking stupid.

Everyone has their own one or two complaints about the game changes, and as a whole you condemn them, and then list your own two! Whoa-oh-oh you're such a fuckin' hypocrite.

Are we catering to new players with the basi or to the overall gameplay?

The turrets were useless other than a shooting device. They weren't taken out. As many people there are that care about the hovel (though I'm truly not one of them), they shoulda just left it in as fanservice.

Teslas almost never used, but despite their lack of purpose, you support them staying, where you said for the hovel to be gone.

I'm tired of the devs and your sentiment that change means it's good. Stuff being updated doesn't mean it's better, it means it's different(with all that underline font bullshit). It's not bad because it's changed, specifically, and it's not bad because it's different. It's bad because it's bad.

[computerquip]

I'm sorry, you base that on almost nothing and you've insulted me for no reason. You've given no base as to why I'm a hypocrite which makes me question whether you know what that means. Your statement above is basically saying, "Let's leave the garbage in the game that gets in the way because I can't accept change". Change isn't always good but when you flat out disagree because it is change isn't the best way to go about it.

Also, no, we aren't catering to new players. But for the game to stay alive we need new players. Making an alien to difficult to use can give the game a bad look and make gameplay for the general audience worse. If someone were to come in game and they kept dying as a basilisk, they would think that alien were useless and probably never use it again or use it less of the time. Why should someone have to be an expert at something to use it?

EDIT: Be a little nicer to someones opinion next time. A debate isn't something you insult someone in. I posted a new topic to give a new start to changes and since mine isn't strictly based on why I do or don't like the changes. It's explaining on why change can be good and why you shouldn't throw it out simply because it's different.

[Plague Bringer]

inb4fla- wait a minute, that already happened? Oh, okay.

Regarding the basilisk, it's a bit /too/ newbie friendly. I can't count the times I've caught a human or have been caught and killed or died (respectively) when, really, it shouldn't have happened, or the human should have been able to escape. It's far too easy for a basi to grab a lone human and circle to the back, regardless of gear, and very very unfair.

[rotacak]

Why should someone have to be an expert at something to use it?

Because that is game. You trying to learn best way how to use + practicing. Not just take some random alien/weapon, kill something, die and have enough credits/evo for another alien/weapon.

I saw (in 1.1) really deadly players with basilisk.

[ACKMAN]

It's far too easy for a basi to grab a lone human and circle to the back, regardless of gear, and very very unfair.

Isn't killing a lone human easy with almost every alien?

[Plague Bringer]

It's far too easy for a basi to grab a lone human and circle to the back, regardless of gear, and very very unfair.

Isn't killing a lone human easy with almost every alien?

Anything goon and up when I'm the human (assuming I'm properly equipped).

[KamikOzzy]

You're still retarded.

I'm sorry, you base that on almost nothing and you've insulted me for no reason.

I base what I say on your own words. You insulted me first by calling my post "senseless"

You've given no base as to why I'm a hypocrite which makes me question whether you know what that means.

No, I lined that out clearly for you. You say it's bad to make a list of complaints like that topic did, and then you made your own complaints. Thus, you are a hypocrite.

Your statement above is basically saying, "Let's leave the garbage in the game that gets in the way because I can't accept change". Change isn't always good but when you flat out disagree because it is change isn't the best way to go about it.

I have many reasons to dislike 1.2 other than the fact that it is change. If you even read that "senseless" post, you would see plenty of reasons. 1.1 is certainly not garbage, and nothing got in the way enough to keep me from playing it for 4 years straight.

Also, no, we aren't catering to new players. But for the game to stay alive we need new players. Making an alien to difficult to use can give the game a bad look and make gameplay for the general audience worse. If someone were to come in game and they kept dying as a basilisk, they would think that alien were useless and probably never use it again or use it less of the time. Why should someone have to be an expert at something to use it?

I use basi. I think lots of people use basi. I don't think there's a problem with it. If you think it's too hard to basi, then you just suck at basi.

EDIT: Be a little nicer to someones opinion next time. A debate isn't something you insult someone in. I posted a new topic to give a new start to changes and since mine isn't strictly based on why I do or don't like the changes. It's explaining on why change can be good and why you shouldn't throw it out simply because it's different.

No, I won't be any nicer. You weren't much nicer about *our* opinions. I'm not throwing it out because it's change, I'm throwing it out because it's bad.

It's this kind of shit that makes me feel the way I do about 1.2:

[rotacak]

You should try same vote on 1.2 servers. I know some players who saying "1.2 is shit" but they never played it yet.

[AppleJuice]

that picture really means nothing, considering the environment in which it occurred

just like the 1.2 balance stats/graphs don't mean much, considering the many other lurking variables

did you take a stats class yet

[KamikOzzy]

Of course that picture doesn't mean anything as far as summing up everyone's opinion. I didn't say it should be taken as evidence, lol.

I said it was my reason.

That's the exact environment I have grown used to, and is the only one that matters to me.

[AppleJuice]

so according to that picture, your reason for hating 1.2 is that 13 people on your server hate 1.2?

also, unless I missed something stated by the devs, what is stopping you from keeping AA? I'm sure you'd still have your loyal player base

[KamikOzzy]

We're still up and running so far.

Yeah, 13 people. Many times, 13 people. I don't need a scientifically correct stats sheet to determine general sentiment, all I need is time and exposure. Stats are all bs.

[AppleJuice]

that wasn't my point

why does your opinion of 1.2 mostly depend on what everyone else thinks? imo, you should base it on your own thoughts first
unless you did (though that's not what your most recent posts imply) - if so, no point in debating

However, I can just as easily find 13 people who think your server sucks. Do you care? I doubt it

Anyway, 1.2 is not perfect, which is why they are still tweaking things
don't give up HOPE yet ozzyshka

[KamikOzzy]

I dislike 1.2 for my own reasons, sure. I also care about AA's playerbase, though, and AA's opinion should therefore matter to me. You may find 13 people who think AA sucks, but you probably won't find them randomly out of AA regulars. If 1.2's playerbase is all that is important to the devs, then I could see why they would be motivated to take only their opinions into account. AA's playerbase *is* the only group that matters to me, though.

P.S. apple ilu

[your face]

You should try same vote on 1.2 servers. I know some players who saying "1.2 is shit" but they never played it yet.

Funny thing is, I did call a similar vote on the 1.2 Dretch*Storm server out of curiosity.  It passed 7-1.  The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs, (yes, even if it does hurt their widdle feewings).

[Norfenstein]

The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs

Why?

[your face]

Why not?  It seems you wouldn't have so many "ungrateful whiners" if you did.

[Plague Bringer]

The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs

Why?

I think this is perhaps the most mindless comment I've ever witnessed a developer make. You guys obviously don't play your own damn game after Beta, much less give a shit about continuing development (bugfixes and .xx versions), so the only reason you're developing this must be for the community, or your portfolio, but that won't look too good if a potential employer checks the community forums and sees they're up in arms because you ignore them, they're looking to sell to people like us.

[KamikOzzy]

The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs

Why?

I think this is perhaps the most mindless comment I've ever witnessed a developer make.

I don't think I've ever posted this before, but, +1

[Norfenstein]

The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs

Why?

I think this is perhaps the most mindless comment I've ever witnessed a developer make.

Don't jump so quickly to conclusions. I didn't say we shouldn't, or that I don't, I just wanted to know what everyone thinks we developers are actually getting out of this, and what benefit it is that anyone other than ourselves actually likes the game. Because sometimes it sounds like people think they're entitled to stuff just because they like something. And I don't understand.

[KamikOzzy]

You might as well get rid of the feedback forum if you aren't planning on listening to suggestions.

What benefit is it? Do you want to play alone? If not for others, there would be nobody playing, you wouldn't have a game.

I haven't made a game, but if I did, I would be feeling grateful if the community supported and cared about the game. I'd trade a hell of a lot to be in that position.

In fact, I'm grateful for the support my server has for it, but that doesn't make me feel entitled to add extreme sudden death to it. Sure I could if I wanted, but pleasing the community is much more rewarding, not to mention fair, than telling it to go fuck itself. =/

[computerquip]

KamikOzzy, your not suggesting anything, your basically coming in and saying it's bullshit and walking out. Your post is senseless because you clearly stated that you did not test extensively nor did you care to before you judged and called it bad. Not to add you almost insult anyone who gets in your way because apparently your the only person who is right.

And your reason on calling me a hypocrite shows your lack of the basic term "hypocrite". A hypocrite means: Merriam-Webster: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings. My belief is that the change isn't necessarily bad since you just so happened to call it crap the moment you layed eyes on it. The complaints below were simply there to note that the change may not be perfect but it has good to it which you fail to see 100%.

Your lack of will to read the English sentences I wrote for you caused you to write:

I have many reasons to dislike 1.2 other than the fact that it is change. If you even read that "senseless" post, you would see plenty of reasons. 1.1 is certainly not garbage, and nothing got in the way enough to keep me from playing it for 4 years straight.

The hovel is useless as it servers as an alternate barricade. The tesla was never used and needed to be fixed. The basilisk and marauder we're underused. But instead of change and possibly increasing the amount of fun allowed in the game, you say, "Nup. I will not allow something that I think is already fun to possibly get better or worse!". I see your point of view but you have to realize that there is no hurt in change and it can be changed back if people do not enjoy the changes although I currently doubt it.

I called your post senseless because it is senseless as the reasons you hated the game made zero sense. It's not an insult, it's an opinion. I didn't go up to you and call you retarded or instantly insult you instead of debating my own view like someone else in this forum topic.

For everyone's information, I've been playing the game for a little over two years. I've enjoyed every game I've played (may be a bit exaggerated) and I don't see any hurt in change.

And yes, you are throwing it out because it's change! You said it in your very own post!

[StevenM]

just create a poll and see what the consensus is, then go from there. stop the fighting.

[Conzul]

The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs

Why?

OMFG did you guys see ^ that? ^ "Why?" "WHY?"......

Games may fade without further developement, but a dev is nothing without his community. Even if the consensus of the community is unreasonable, if enough people are saying the same thing, you must listen to them, or the game WILL die.

[mooseberry]

The devs mostly just need to listen to suggestions that the community inputs

Why?

OMFG did you guys see ^ that? ^ "Why?" "WHY?"......

Games may fade without further developement, but a dev is nothing without his community. Even if the consensus of the community is unreasonable, if enough people are saying the same thing, you must listen to them, or the game WILL die.

Not really. I think the devs should listen to input, but you realize that most games do nothing like this (the ones that have some of the most players actually) , and Trem actually is one of the games where an average user can input a lot and get changes.

[Toma]

I READ THIS FOR TEH LULZ K? DON'T HATE.


Lol I <3 the hovel thingy. Just simply a classic. IT IS USELESS. But I <3 it.

[Lava_Croft]

Ozzy is a loser that acts like he speaks for a part of the community, while in essence he only speaks for himself.

[your face]

And for atleast 50% of the community.  While you on the other hand, are probably not even actually lava croft.  If you are, my condolences.

[mooseberry]

And for atleast 50% of the community.  While you on the other hand, are probably not even actually lava croft.  If you are, my condolences.

Really, 50%