Author Topic: Cube2 engine  (Read 90723 times)

MitSugna

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2010, 04:33:13 pm »
again doesn't run on linux and is close source so Source engine will always be -99999999999999999999. why would anyone consider removing 99pct of trems current player-base moving to a windows only engine
Most of the gamers don't use linux. Of course, you would lose some players; probably >50% but not 99%. On the other hand, you would gain more players than you lost, if you released it as a HL2 mod... I would be some other game not Tremulous; a clone

Have you played any of the source games recently? A lot of them are full of retarded kids who just got their first microphone and are eager to whine about something or other to everyone on the server. Sure, there are some decent players here and there, but I hardly think it's worth it to lose the Linux crowd just to gain some engine improvements.
Do you realize that it sounds like Trem :D

Asvarox

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2010, 04:51:08 pm »
Tremulous compared to any other free games I played is full of love.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 05:52:29 pm by Asvarox »
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rotacak

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2010, 04:59:30 pm »
About Xreal: theres same bboxs like in tremulous engine? I mean: square and non-rotable? I asked this question in their forum, but it seems dead.

MitSugna

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2010, 05:51:09 pm »
Vertical AABB box or cylinder or capsule.
But most likely it is AABB.

kevlarman

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2010, 06:17:36 pm »
again doesn't run on linux and is close source so Source engine will always be -99999999999999999999. why would anyone consider removing 99pct of trems current player-base moving to a windows only engine
Most of the gamers don't use linux. Of course, you would lose some players; probably >50% but not 99%. On the other hand, you would gain more players than you lost, if you released it as a HL2 mod... I would be some other game not Tremulous; a clone
as far as i know, exactly one of trem's coders uses windows as his regular OS (and even he codes for trem on linux)
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
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|..d| #
|.@.-##
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gimhael

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2010, 07:39:40 pm »
Vertical AABB box or cylinder or capsule.
But most likely it is AABB.

Technically the Q3 engine can only trace AABBs vs BSP-trees. For AABB vs AABB testing one of the AABBs is converted into a BSP tree and then the generic function is called. XReal has a special case for AABB vs AABB testing, which is probably smart, because the construction of the temporary BSPs consts more time than the actual tracing, but I think there's no support for more complex collision tests.

If this would be extended arbitrary oriented bounding boxes, then the players may not be able to turn around in tight tunnels, because the width of the bounding box depends on the angle of the player. A reasonable alternative would be bounding cylinders, which would be very similar to the AABBs in practice, except you don't get more hits if you shoot at the tyrant from a 45 degree angle.

jal

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2010, 09:51:21 pm »
All quakes trace AABB vs AABB just fine. XReal didn't need to add that. They were probably refering to something else. Quakes can trace AABB vs AABB, AABB vs Brush, and AABB vs unaligned BB (tho this is disabled in all of them). They can't trace brush vs brush, nor brush vs AABB, nor unaligned vs brush, nor unaligned vs AABB. In short, the object you move has to be always an AABB, and the object that receives the impact can be of any of the available types. Quake 3 also adds capsule to the mix, but also disabled, dunno if it's functional.

A fine solution for the problem you describe (without modifying the collision code) is splitting the movement box and the hit box. That way the movement box (object that moves) remains always axis aligned, while the hitbox (object that receives the impacts from weapons) can be of any type, be it AA, a cyllindrical brushmodel, unaligned, or even a bunch of unaligneds tied to the model skeleton. This is what they did in HL (1) to implement skeletal hit detection.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 09:58:43 pm by jal »

Winnie the Pooh

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2010, 10:20:23 pm »
As of now, AABB's are used for both movement and hitboxes iirc.
Quote
I also realize that this is the internet, but even more so this is the forum for a video game on an internet, then even beyond that this is TREMULOUS forums the Satan version of all video game forums for a video game that is ON the internet.

mooseberry

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2010, 03:40:04 am »
again doesn't run on linux and is close source so Source engine will always be -99999999999999999999. why would anyone consider removing 99pct of trems current player-base moving to a windows only engine
Most of the gamers don't use linux. Of course, you would lose some players; probably >50% but not 99%. On the other hand, you would gain more players than you lost, if you released it as a HL2 mod... I would be some other game not Tremulous; a clone
as far as i know, exactly one of trem's coders uses windows as his regular OS (and even he codes for trem on linux)

Because the OS the dev's use influences the OSes used by the people who play it? If it would be on steam it would be on windows.  ???

And @Demolution, he said you would gain users, he said nothing about said users being good. Ahh, tangenting to flame the other person. Love it.
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kevlarman

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2010, 04:21:57 am »
Because the OS the dev's use influences the OSes used by the people who play it? If it would be on steam it would be on windows.  ???

And @Demolution, he said you would gain users, he said nothing about said users being good. Ahh, tangenting to flame the other person. Love it.
because making a source mod is somewhat difficult without windows.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

mooseberry

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2010, 04:54:41 am »
Because the OS the dev's use influences the OSes used by the people who play it? If it would be on steam it would be on windows.  ???

And @Demolution, he said you would gain users, he said nothing about said users being good. Ahh, tangenting to flame the other person. Love it.
because making a source mod is somewhat difficult without windows.

They were discussing the users they would gain and lose if tremulous _was_ ported as source mod. Obviously that wouldn't happen without dev's who can do that, but it's kind of silly arguing about the realism of tremulous going to source as this is obviously never going to happen.
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Demolution

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2010, 06:36:40 am »
I was simply noting on the type of player-base we would gain from such a 'migration', that's all.

Also: I love flaming MitSugna, because he takes it all in stride and completely ignores negative criticism.  ;)

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rotacak

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2010, 11:14:56 am »
Vertical AABB box or cylinder or capsule.
But most likely it is AABB.
If this would be extended arbitrary oriented bounding boxes, then the players may not be able to turn around in tight tunnels, because the width of the bounding box depends on the angle of the player. A reasonable alternative would be bounding cylinders, which would be very similar to the AABBs in practice, except you don't get more hits if you shoot at the tyrant from a 45 degree angle.

I think bounding cylinders are better solution, because that 45 degree benefit is ... strange. And if will be possible to use rotated bboxes, it will be good for new type of buildables - no more square-only buildables.

Odin

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2010, 09:27:20 pm »
About Xreal: theres same bboxs like in tremulous engine? I mean: square and non-rotable? I asked this question in their forum, but it seems dead.
It's hard to answer a question worded as terribly as the one you asked on the xreal forum. It's like you typed drunk, blindfolded, and the keyboard was behind your back.

MitSugna

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2010, 10:04:42 pm »
About Xreal: theres same bboxs like in tremulous engine? I mean: square and non-rotable? I asked this question in their forum, but it seems dead.
It's hard to answer a question worded as terribly as the one you asked on the xreal forum. It's like you typed drunk, blindfolded, and the keyboard was behind your back.
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Haraldx

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2010, 04:23:32 pm »
Source engine = steam
what does it mean? if we use Source engine all of us will have to use that f*****-up program Steam

IoQuake 3 is fine, true it would be nice if there were more cool graphics.
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CATAHA

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2010, 05:55:04 pm »
IoQuake 3 is fine, true it would be nice if there were more cool graphics.
Its bring us back to XReal =)
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Plague Bringer

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2010, 06:19:07 pm »
IoQuake 3 is fine, true it would be nice if there were more cool graphics.
Its bring us back to XReal =)
Xreal looks like shiny plasticy shit.
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mooseberry

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2010, 06:23:19 pm »
IoQuake 3 is fine, true it would be nice if there were more cool graphics.
Its bring us back to XReal =)
Xreal looks like shiny plasticy shit.

It can... I don't suppose you've seen many examples of XReal. When used correctly it is very nice. And if you havn't seen examples, don't insult it.
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CATAHA

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2010, 06:37:43 pm »
Xreal looks like shiny plasticy shit.
Sorry. I know im not incredible-super-pro-mapper. But. You can make pure crap on ANY engine. All depends from mapper. I think even i can make map and shaders under xreal so it gonna look GOOD. Dont judje so rapid.
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Plague Bringer

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2010, 06:50:27 pm »
Catha and Moose; I've seen plenty of examples of Xreal, the vast majority of which all are the same rehashed, disgustingly reflective, wet looking, sharpness-through-the-roof, low-quality texture, idTech4-esque crap.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 06:52:39 pm by Plague Bringer »
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UniqPhoeniX

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2010, 07:57:04 pm »
Catha and Moose; I've seen plenty of examples of Xreal, the vast majority of which all are the same rehashed, disgustingly reflective, wet looking, sharpness-through-the-roof, low-quality texture, idTech4-esque crap.
Reflection/"wet looks" and quality of texture are chosen by the artist who creates those assets, it's not limited by the engine. And they can create a lot more on Xreal then ioq3... What do you mean with sharpness?

mooseberry

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2010, 08:59:36 pm »
Catha and Moose; I've seen plenty of examples of Xreal, the vast majority of which all are the same rehashed, disgustingly reflective, wet looking, sharpness-through-the-roof, low-quality texture, idTech4-esque crap.
Reflection/"wet looks" and quality of texture are chosen by the artist who creates those assets, it's not limited by the engine. And they can create a lot more on Xreal then ioq3... What do you mean with sharpness?

^^ XReal needs more talented artists, you don't need to have any wet or shiny textures if you don't want... (Although I will admit I have seen plenty not very admirable shiny ugly textures in XReal, but that isn't XReal's "fault")
* mooseberry waits for thorn to read and flame someone in this thread
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

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Plague Bringer

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2010, 09:06:12 pm »
Moose: Last I checked, Tremulous devs used premade texture assets in their maps.

Sharpness in a nutshell:


Google it.
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mooseberry

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2010, 09:43:15 pm »
Moose: Last I checked, Tremulous devs used premade texture assets in their maps.

Sharpness in a nutshell:
Sharpness images.
Google it.

Now would be a great time to say. What the FUCK are you talking about?

First of all, I never said anything about sharpness, that was UniqPhoeniX, and I'm sure I know more about it than you.

Secondly, what the hell does the tremulous devs, and their use of premade textures in their maps have AT ALL to do with what I was talking about.  ???

^^ XReal needs more talented artists, you don't need to have any wet or shiny textures if you don't want... (Although I will admit I have seen plenty not very admirable shiny ugly textures in XReal, but that isn't XReal's "fault")
* mooseberry waits for thorn to read and flame someone in this thread

I will try to explain again, in case you didn't understand. (And judging by your responce  ??? WTF you really missed it)

XReal has updated capabilites over ioquake 3, if you know how to use XReal to its potential, you can get much better looking textures, etc than plain old ioquak3.

What you were thinking about when you started talking to me about sharpness, or talking about the fact that the Tremulous Dev's didn't create all of their textures, I have no idea.  ???
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

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David

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2010, 10:20:54 pm »
Can someone link to some decent xreal screen shots.

Everything I've seen has always been "zomg it's X" style things, so OTT bloom, or cum all over the camera, or out of focus or otherwise shit looking.

Also be nice if said decent screen shots were taken at decent frame rate :)
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kevlarman

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2010, 10:26:39 pm »
Can someone link to some decent xreal screen shots.

Everything I've seen has always been "zomg it's X" style things, so OTT bloom, or cum all over the camera, or out of focus or otherwise shit looking.

Also be nice if said decent screen shots were taken at decent frame rate :)
on a sub $100 gpu.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
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mooseberry

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2010, 10:33:25 pm »
Can someone link to some decent xreal screen shots.

Everything I've seen has always been "zomg it's X" style things, so OTT bloom, or cum all over the camera, or out of focus or otherwise shit looking.

Also be nice if said decent screen shots were taken at decent frame rate :)

You can try google to find some pretty nice ones.

Thorn also showed some very nice pictures on tremor from June 2009, I don't know if he has any newer ones he'd like to show off.

It shows how you can get much more detail, very 3d looking with reliefmapping enabled.


and it also has very nice lighting capabilities.



It says 25 FPS here, but Thorn claims to have photoshopped his FPS to be lower than it really was.  ???

http://unvanquished.net/forum/index.php?topic=218.0
Bucket: [You hear the distant howl of a coyote losing at Counterstrike.]

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Thorn

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2010, 12:03:44 am »
To be fair that's a pretty crap showoff of the engine ( Using lowres tremor textures with parallax = silly).

This is taken from the topic of the XreaL  IRC channel, done by qualified a artist:
HD Forest Scene

kevlarman

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Re: Cube2 engine
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2010, 12:53:13 am »
To be fair that's a pretty crap showoff of the engine ( Using lowres tremor textures with parallax = silly).

This is taken from the topic of the XreaL  IRC channel, done by qualified a artist:
HD Forest Scene
heh, i was about to say the same (huge amount of aliasing doesn't help either). you should ditch the bloom btw, it makes the textures look washed out.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----