Suggestions (1.2)

[Haraldx]

  Humans:
1.Battle suit
 a) Due to its heavy armor, can crush aliens. dretch - insta death, basi - insta death, granger - insta daeth. all other aliens recieve non-locational damage.
 b) Lucifier cannon doesnt do so big rocket-jump effect for Battle suit.
2.Lucifier Cannon
 a) the secondary fire is half as fast.
 b) it needs new explosion effect, more particles or something like that.
3.Flame thrower
 a) make the flame bounce off walls a bit.

  Aliens:
1.Tyrant
 a) Increase the charge repeat rate. it cureently is like 2 seconds before you can recieve more damage from the same tyrant.
 b) when the charge is about to end, tyrant hits the last human away with its head, throwing him far away. (not working for Battle suit)
2.Advanced Basilisk
 a) not shown in radar when standing still.
3.Hovel
 a) when a granger goes in a hovel it can shoot barbs from it dealing like 40 damage in the body (un-armored) while still slowing down the enemy (slow effect doesn't apply to Battle Suit)
4.Overmind
 a) gives non-advanced basi regen rate. (might be over-powered)


Why so much suggestions for battle suit? Battle suit isn't really selected much, most people take helmet and armor. Not because battle suit can't crouch or can't carry battery pack, but cause of its huge cost. Battle suit isn't worth that much credits.

[Caffeine]

I like these ideas mostly. The bsuit needs updating, and a crush would not be so bad... haha just don't tell me it can step on dretches because that would be ridiculous. I like the idea of it not being able to lucijump as high, and it not getting knocked back as far from different effects. Also make it's dodge a shorter hop I'm fine with the current animation, but if there was a better way of showing the range of it's splash that would be nice.

As for the charge repeat-damage rate... that's a good idea too but may be overpowered if it's much more often than 1.5-1.7 seconds. Maybe lessen the damage and throwback, but make it less powerful and more often. Make a bsuit stop the charge and take higher damage?

I like the idea of basilisk not being on radar when standing still, it would make them more viable at s2 and s3
on big maps it would be very annoying to end the game with basilisks being the last players alive.

As for the overmind giving 2x regen (same as regular basi) that would be a bit much... creep already ups regen quite a bit.

The hovel does not need to come back, or have a replacement IMO... they killed it for a reason. No building should be free, and the new barricades are sort of better than the hovel anyway. My best idea about grangers is to have spit heal buildings! Humans have the DC that heals everything over time, making their buildings heal like alien ones do... aliens should get a ckit repair type ability as adv grangers.

[Minimum]

Battlesuit is worth it in my opinion, because it makes the chaingun that much more effective. Allthough, it shouldn't be effected by granger spit, yeah.

[kevlarman]

Battlesuit is worth it in my opinion, because it makes the chaingun that much more effective. Allthough, it shouldn't be effected by granger spit, yeah.

it doesn't actually make the chaingun that much more effective, the screen shake is client side, and the small recoil is easy to compensate for.

[Caffeine]

wait... if screen shake is client side... it could be disabled???

[kevlarman]

wait... if screen shake is client side... it could be disabled???

nope, that would be cheating.

[Minimum]

wait... if screen shake is client side... it could be disabled???

nope, that would be cheating.

That hasn't stopped people cheating before...

[David]

The cheat clients will already disable it.  Or if they don't then they are even more stupid than I thought...

[Haraldx]

Please stay on topic.


Oh 1 other thing.

5.Adv Goon
 a) cannot shoot barbs while in mid-air or if pouncing.

[Conzul]

Please stay on topic.


Oh 1 other thing.

5.Adv Goon
 a) cannot shoot barbs while in mid-air or if pouncing.

Why not? your other sugg's were good but there's no reason for this one. Personally, before the swarmer was suggested, I was about to propose that the goonbarbs behave more like mouse-guided throwing stars, letting them go around corners to a degree and hit bases from safety. Please don't try and nerf goon classes more than they have been, right now they're on the human-bias side of perfect

[Haraldx]

Well if we can't chomp while in mid-pounce why we can spit barbs? Besides, the barb is enough powerful. True the goon has been very weakened in 1.2, but i guess there must be ways to improve it.

[Stunt]

I think all of the changes in the first post would be a good addition to the game. I especially like the idea of being able to stomp on dretches like goombas (I disagree that basis should be insta-killed though) and I like your creative use for the hovel.

I have to disagree with the goon barb suggestion. On some maps, humans can build bases high up on rafters and goons need to be able to pounce and snipe in mid-air to take care of buildings and jet-campers.

[Caffeine]

Yeah leave the ability to jump and snipe alone, it's even difficult to pounce a jet-camper in ATCS if he's paying any attention... we need that ability. The goon has been nerffed too much IMO and pouncing should not be the main damage source. Bring back chomp.

bsuit should have to JUMP ON TOP OF THEM not merely run into them to damage alien classes. It's already a fucking tank and anything smaller than a dragoon stands almost no chance against it. It's debatable if dragoons can even easily take them down.

Here's my soapbox, idk if anyone has noticed me on it a lot recently but it seems like:

"lets make every human weapon easier to use, and make everything more noob friendly on the human side, but lets nerf the most versatile alien class, and make it more difficult to use, and make it's main damage source an ability that brings you in point blank and is very predictable"

What made the devs think that reducing the range on chomp so much was a good idea? I can't see how this makes any sense. Pounce is too easy to dodge, it's too predictable, it brings you into range of every human weapon you're supposed to stay away from... psaw is VERY easy to use against a goon now. Flamer is MASSIVELY easier to use. The aliens got no such rewards, nothing about them is very friendly to newer players.

Someone come devmap with me because i need to see what makes pounce usable against smart humans... i'm not seeing it, dodge is too easy to use and makes a larmour shotty win more than it ever should.

Why is ANYONE trying to nerf aliens more at this point?

[Conzul]

Why is ANYONE trying to nerf aliens more at this point?

Cus they want us to yell at them.

[Kiwi]

I agree, the main force of the dragoon should come from chomp not pounce.  Pounce takes less skill, and chomp is more fun =D

Warm Regards,
Kiwi

[mooseberry]

I agree, the main force of the dragoon should come from chomp not pounce.  Pounce takes less skill, and chomp is more fun =D

Warm Regards,
Kiwi

I don't think chomp is more fun.  Chomp is your "standard" alien close range attack. You get close, press a button and it bites the human. Pounce is much more unique and does take a certain ammount of skill.

[your face]

Which is *exactly* why pounce should remain secondary.

[AppleJuice]

What made the devs think that reducing the range on chomp so much was a good idea? I can't see how this makes any sense. Pounce is too easy to dodge, it's too predictable, it brings you into range of every human weapon you're supposed to stay away from... psaw is VERY easy to use against a goon now. Flamer is MASSIVELY easier to use. The aliens got no such rewards, nothing about them is very friendly to newer players.

I'm not sure how much the recent changes (read: last week's) have affected pounces, but before those changes, pounce was pretty overpowered, and contrary to what you said, painsaws were impossible to use against decent pouncers (flamers might have been, though). Pounce was actually very hard to dodge if the dragoon was any good, and it actually kept you out of range if used correctly. I can't really play right now to demonstrate this, but there are some good 1.2 pouncers out there (try playing Punjabi, IIRC).

Note, though, that I'm talking about 1.2 before the most recent changes (without the pounce range nerf), though one of my clanmates tells me it's pretty similar.

[Caffeine]

The pounce doesn't REALLY take any more or different skill than chomp, or than the old pounce used to, it's just harder to hit with but provides some knockback.

If you wanted to in 1.1 you could go around pouncing people to death. I used to before I got good with chomp. The problem with pounce is, it's very predictable and anyone with half a brain knows you're gonna be point blank and can't really change direction after a pounce. You also can't chomp for a bit after you pounce. If you miss, not only do you give the human free shots on you and waste time, you give them a chance to move away again instead of being knocked in a specific direction. It's very much harder to kill a human even in light armor if they have a shotgun or psaw, but somewhat easier to kill a human with a helmet? This makes no sense... The primary means of damaging a human SHOULD be chomp, and pounce should add mobility, and be part of the strategy to GET the chomp on the human, not the main damage source... why give goons a chomp at all if they're only going to pounce anyway?

Edit: Yes I agree that pounce is overpowered against humans with helmets, at short range in hallway type settings. But not against dodgy larmour humans with lasguns or shottys in any open area. If the human is using dodge correctly (hardly anyone does in pubs) it should be pretty much impossible to hit him from any distance with pounce, and up close... it depends on if they can predict the timing of your pounce.

[AppleJuice]

Edit: Yes I agree that pounce is overpowered against humans with helmets, at short range in hallway type settings. But not against dodgy larmour humans with lasguns or shottys in any open area. If the human is using dodge correctly (hardly anyone does in pubs) it should be pretty much impossible to hit him from any distance with pounce, and up close... it depends on if they can predict the timing of your pounce.

You're forgetting that after a certain point, most human dodges are very predictable. :-p
Most good pouncers can anticipate your dodge fairly well, and with the old pounce range, it was very hard to miss (hopefully, they corrected this with the new change; I haven't playtested it yet). Also, in my experiences, good goons usually pounce faster than humans can react (react well, at least; good goons usually use a combination of full and mini pounces, and abuse knockback/speed/mouse spinning).

Also, distance isn't really an issue, as it can be solved with one good pounce or maybe a pounce-jump. Humans can only shoot so quickly.

[Caffeine]

I don't have any problem killing goons as a larmour shotty :[ and i'd consider myself a fairly skilled player, even if not FULLY adjusted to 1.2 GPP

[AppleJuice]

then those dragoons pretty much suck

[Caffeine]

Haha we are speaking about "average" players, talking about the mean skill level. I'm not talking about highly skilled clan players. I'd be a lower end clan player, but a higher end player overall.

For you elite clanners things are a little different. I wish they had left weapons and alien attacks alone accept new mara zap... it's pretty awesome against bases. I've always thought 1.1 humans relied too much on turrets and not enough on active defenders.

[Stunt]

Well, 1.1 pub human teams relied on turrets AND "active defenders" or campers.

The camping problem was addressed nicely with new alien healing (which limits aliens camping the doors outside of human bases), new human defenses and repeaters, and improved human firepower. I'm seeing humans rush with a greater frequency and aliens ambushing more often. I think that is how tremulous is supposed to feel.

But aside from the issue of what to do with goons (which I think are fine after the pounce hit-distance nerf), there are two frustrating things that I'd like to see tweaked. They are: flamethrowers and adv-mara lightning. For some maps, these s2 powers seem to be game-enders.

Flamers: Humans advance to s2 first. They charge in a group carrying hitscan weapons and flamethrowers. Nothing can approach to melee distance for more than two seconds. Flamers change the game by turning all hit and run attacks into suicide attacks. They also bridge the gap too quickly to s3 as wave after wave of dretches get charbroiled.

Lightning: Aliens advance to s2 first. Three or four adv-maras come one after the other for an uncoordinated attack (god help you if they all come at once). Strafing left and right in front of one turret, they are well shielded as they zap zap zap. The first four zaps take out all turrets in proximity. A fifth zap takes down the telenodes and leaves the whole base at less than 50% health after things finish exploding. At that point, only a miracle can salvage the human base.

Now some maps let you build a more spread-out base to minimize this problem. But spreading the defenses can also make them more solo-able for aliens at s1. My point is only that many games I play seem to end up being a race to see who can get fire or lightning first to stampede the other team.

[A Spork]

I totally agree with the flamer, but not at all with Mara zap.
Humans bases should be spread out much more in 1.2 than 1.1, and they can be cuz of the turret range increase.

[frazzler]

I completely agree with what caffeine said about the devs nerfing aliens a lot. The 1.2 humans are insanely overpowered and these changes that were proclaimed to put an end to camping have actually encouraged it. 'tyrants are weaker, so teh humans ar moar likley too leev teh bais to kill dem'. Actually, they're more likely to camp because there's less chance of getting killed. IMO 1.2 was the devs way of curing camping, more than fixing balance. However, it has encouraged camping, and as a result, teamwork is encouraged much much much more than it was in 1.1, especially in aliens, because it has become rediculously difficult to play well solo. These ideas are really good imo because they help to unfix the issues in 1.2. If that makes sense...

[Caffeine]

I am seeing what Applejuice was saying about goon pounce. It is terribly overpowered against helmeted humans. But against non-helmet humans it's not as easy to kill them now, and this makes no sense.

I do think the new flamethrower is much to powerful, especially in maps with vents and pipes, or smaller hallways as it becomes impossible to traverse these if a flamer is inside of one of them. Smaller hallways. or narrower hallways are also very hard to get at a flamer in. Mara zap is only useful against 1.1 style bases (why the hell do people insist on building like the old bases?) or overly powerful in maps with smaller base areas (ATCS comes to mind) which are not the only maps it should be balanced for.

Flamer is Uber anywhere there is a door, narrow hallway, pipes, vents, or any other small opening that aliens would use to get into an area. I can't think of a map that doesn't have at least one of these things. The flamer needs to go to the old style or have it's damage nerfed a little.

[Plague Bringer]

Flamer is Uber anywhere there is a door, narrow hallway, pipes, vents, or any other small opening that aliens would use to get into an area. I can't think of a map that doesn't have at least one of these things. The flamer needs to go to the old style or have it's damage nerfed a little.

So.. Flank.

Or, if he's just gonna turn around and fry you, make yourself useful and head to hbase. Camping flamers are just one less 'ret defender.

[Conzul]

Flamer is Uber anywhere there is a door, narrow hallway, pipes, vents, or any other small opening that aliens would use to get into an area. I can't think of a map that doesn't have at least one of these things. The flamer needs to go to the old style or have it's damage nerfed a little.

So.. Flank.

Or, if he's just gonna turn around and fry you, make yourself useful and head to hbase. Camping flamers are just one less 'ret defender.

So true. Unless it's the alien base they're camping. IN that case chicken them till their flame juice runs out.

[A Spork]

Problem is, its almost always their in the Aliens base, there's usually more than one, so they can spell each other off, and by the time they run out of ammo, they have s3.