Author Topic: humans weapons and aliens classes  (Read 45671 times)

wolfbr

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humans weapons and aliens classes
« on: February 07, 2010, 03:52:53 pm »
about 1.2.
seems to be balanced, but still think it needs some adjustments:

exemple: humans weapons> some weapons are powerful considering that the aliens are weaker, especially using teamwork

i have some suggestions.

-------------
HUMANS:

-painsaw> add overheating bar.
reason> helps reduce "crazy psaw", and this weapon is very powerful considering the price.

-rifle> add more spread reduce the efficiency in medium/long distance, and add 2x scope(for long range,less spread and and movement).
reason> currently is very effective as a free weapon,

-shotgun> the 1.1 shotgun is fine to me.
reason>in 1.2 is easy to hit, basically nob weapon.

-lasgun> add ammo clip and some spread exemple> 30/40 cells per clip, fast reload(like a half life'S 2 AR2), and add 4x scope(for long range,less spread and and movement) .
reason> no reload and accuracy makes this a very powerful weapon,I believe that my suggestion help to reduce in "bullet spam".

-Mass Driver> the the 1.1 Mdriver is good in 1.2(and add 4x/8x scope).
reason> strong in 1.2, the aliens are weaker.

-chaigun> add overheating bar or a ammo clip sizes of 100 and some spread.
reason> the 1.2 is good against small aliens, would be improved rifle, the Flamethrower already has the function of killing small aliens, and the clip size or overheating bar help to reduce in "bullet spam.


-Flamethrower> hum, nice, but, yet it is easy to cause damage to yourself and allies.
my idea>reduce splash damange
reason: prevent to burn youself, splash damange is only high in impact..(like wolfet's flamer)

-Prifle> the speed is good, but, strong. add some spread(this gun would be useful in short/medium distances).
reason> the gun would be more balanced.

-Lcannon> i like it, but, i like the old lcannon, could be interesting to have 2 lcannon(close and long range), I do not like the secondary fire of the 1.2 lcannon, one suggestion for 1.2 Lcannon> The Secondary Attack button fires energy grenades, By holding down the Secondary Attack, a player may charge up a powerful(grenades explode after a few seconds, not in impact),the longer you charge, the longer it will take to explode.

-blaster> Finite ammo, and add a ammo clip sizes(10/20, depends on the reload time) and some extra clips may be carried at a time.
reason> reduce in "bullet spam"., and make this more a basic weapon

-new weapons-melle weapon(exemple: knife)>  damange: 15/20 p/slash (depends on the rate of fire).
reason> Last ditch weapon when humans run out of ammo or want to conserve it.

Battlesuit> very powerful in 1.2, need some change to be balanced. exemple: remove dodge/sprint or both, or slow walking,or reduce defense...
bs currently the only improves a weapon(chaigun), would be interesting to upgrade the other weapons(exemple: reduce spread, fast reload, reduce overheating...).

stamina> most movements consume stamina(walk, aiming(secunrady fire), fire, reload...(well, almost everything),but, some movements consume less, others consume more.
stamina is fully recharged in medstation, or can stand(slow regeneration).
reason> more realism, and, help in balance, and humans will think before wasting energy(Agility is a characteristic of the aliens, not humans).

aiming system> would be interesting if the aim was similar to games like couter strike, urban terror, fear, wolfet..
that the longer you hold the fire button, you will have less precision(indicated by the contracting crosshairs),All auto weapons have reduced accuracy when firing(auto,semi-auto) or moving(auto, semi auto),All weapons have some loss of accuracy when they are fired by a moving shooter(This is especially true of the semi-auto weapons).

resupply time >currently, when the human is in the armory, ammunition reloads instantly.
my sugestion> take a while to be resupply ammunition(resupply time), like a Medistation.
Humans could not keep reloading all the time, and then to recharge, would have a time to re-check, Until this timer expires, you cannot buy more ammo or other weapon.

reason: prevent camping, humans have to learn to economize ammunition(reduce spread).

Turret- add more range and some inaccuracy and reduce the damage.

but in consequence of the bases would be more open, would not be easy target for advmaras, the towers could have less resistance, and gons and tt would be more useful.
the towers could support long distance (reapeler + 2 turrets), the shots were just a little slow, allowing the dodge in long-distance and small aliens could easily get closer to the towers depending on the situation.

reason: its more for fun factor  ;D

----
would be interesting if humans earned a new weapon(grenade launcher?,laser?<t he laser cut through the aliens, may cause damage to several aliens).

ALIENS:

all aliens evolve as dretch, and take a few seconds for the aliens evolve(aliens should seek a safe place to evole smoothly, or have support from an ally)

-Granger>

regular
    * can also wallwalk(granges currently are not very useful/funny in s1)

Advanced
    * finite barbs(like a agoon),would prevents battlegranges, Up to three of these barbs may be held in reserve and they regenerate automatically over time.

Egg(like a Repeater, but, may be built in proximity to a Overmind)
    * zone build points
          o Egg provide a pool of 20 local build points that can be used in their power zone.

reason>the new egg prevents battlegranges.

-Basilisk and advBasilisk>
    *basilisks invisible if stays still OR BOOSTED "or" by lobbing small projectiles with the Activate Upgrade button(limited barbs, like a advgoon).
reason> one of these ideas couldimprove team work, basilisks are a ninjas, a basilisk can hardly kill more than one human at a time

-Dragoon>
    *throws barbs (3), but, the damage is more less compared to agoon.
reason> dragons are not very helpful at 1.2, that could help them improve.

--Overmind> when destroyed, cancels the ability of regeneration of aliens.
reason> in sudden death, aliens have a great advantage over the humans, they can regenerate, and do not need any structures for that, besides not need ammunition. I believe that would be more balanced and fair.

add a new alien class, Spitfire(original idea of korxmod)> a flying alien.


-regular:
primary fire = medium range barbs(low damange, medium fireinterval, but, its good to kill in long range or suport others aliens class, or vc jetcampers).

secundary fire = speed boost(like a tt) while flying( Hold down Secondary Attack briefly then release )tton while moving forward to charge up, then release to run at high speed for a short time(cause damage to enemies, like a tt).

-advanced:
primary fire = long range barbs(medium damange,slow fireinterval)
secundary fire = speed boost
Activate Upgrade = can spray a bust of flame(like a dragon : D)

Mara and advmara> add a double jump(good for climbing walls, or to dodge attacks)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 08:45:22 pm by wolfbr »

Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 04:49:23 pm »
Wow. Do you have a way of justifying these changes?

wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 06:03:06 pm »
I put the reason for all the changes, the difference that I specified a little more now, maybe now you understand

Haraldx

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 06:30:55 pm »
Battlesuit too pow... POWERFUL??? I once asked a whole server do you preffer battle suit or normal armour? guess what they answered? most of people said normal armour, reasons - It is big, can't go thru every-where where a normal armoured human can, can't crouch, can't take jet-pack or batpack, it hasn't that good defense, it can be killed by 3 bites with dragoon. I personaly think it's under-powered. Battle suit can't do almost anything, and you are suggesting making him slower and unable to sprint? wtf are you thinking about? if so then reduce the cost to 200 credits, or else nobody will take the battlesuit at all.
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wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 07:06:29 pm »
Battlesuit too pow... POWERFUL??? I once asked a whole server do you preffer battle suit or normal armour? guess what they answered? most of people said normal armour, reasons - It is big, can't go thru every-where where a normal armoured human can, can't crouch, can't take jet-pack or batpack, it hasn't that good defense, it can be killed by 3 bites with dragoon. I personaly think it's under-powered. Battle suit can't do almost anything, and you are suggesting making him slower and unable to sprint? wtf are you thinking about? if so then reduce the cost to 200 credits, or else nobody will take the battlesuit at all.

at 1.1 TT is the tank, at 1.2 bs is the tank, i dont like it, in 1.2 bs+chaigun/lcannon are very strong, using the bs, is possible to kill a large amount of aliens easily,.
in 1.1, the amount of bs+chaigun and light armor+bpack are equivalent, in 1.2 the most choose to Bs+LCannon.

Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 03:55:19 am »
The Battlesuit is much more powerful than in 1.1 it seems. I believe a slowdown is in order, for it's general walk speed. I think the other sugg's are unjustifyably complicating.

Winnie the Pooh

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 05:22:02 am »
The Battle-Suit's non-locational damage has been changed:

Old Damage Modifier: 0.2

New Damage Modifier: 0.221875

And the size of it's head hitbox has increased slightly from 0.2 to 0.27

All other things are the same, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Edit: And the viewheight has been increased a bit. Not like it makes a statistical difference.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 05:27:19 am by Winnie the Pooh »
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jit

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 06:58:13 am »
you seem fond of adding scopes to the human weapons haha. scopes would be nice. i dont see myself using them a lot but why not right? i think grangers should have that infinite amount of spit. it gives them the chance to slow down a human and allow them to run.

Silver

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 01:37:54 pm »
The Battle-Suit's non-locational damage has been changed:

Old Damage Modifier: 0.2

New Damage Modifier: 0.221875

And the size of it's head hitbox has increased slightly from 0.2 to 0.27

All other things are the same, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Edit: And the viewheight has been increased a bit. Not like it makes a statistical difference.

I don't think it's the suit itself, I think it's the weapons.  Human weapons and forward bases have made suits a lot more practical.  In 1.1 you were better off with a helmet since weapons were less effective than they are in 1.2 especially at close range. 

You have to consider alien regen too, you could expect an alien to fight and lead corners in 1.1 in 1.2 they can't unless they have enough lisk support.  Because of that BattleSuit is a lot stronger.  Chainsuits were already terrorizing enough in 1.1 if there weren't enough rants to counter them but in 1.2 they are especially deadly.  Since a rant that is really good at trample is the only thing that can touch them and with lower hp/terrible range rant's aren't nearly as much as a threat to them. 

So basically, the combination of alien nerfs and human OP's made BSuit OP.
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wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 02:51:09 pm »
you seem fond of adding scopes to the human weapons haha. scopes would be nice. i dont see myself using them a lot but why not right? i think grangers should have that infinite amount of spit. it gives them the chance to slow down a human and allow them to run.

about barbs, 3 barbs is enough for self defense.

about acog/scopes, this idea seems to be originally from devs:
http://janvanderweg.com/pics/tremulous/pulserifle2_ig1.jpg
http://janvanderweg.com/pics/tremulous/rifle_mzf.jpg
http://janvanderweg.com/pics/tremulous/mdriverig5.jpg
http://janvanderweg.com/pics/tremulous/lgunig1.jpg

so I thought I should have some useful (and not just as "decoration")

exemple:
for rifle/prifle:
http://www.incrysis.com/wiki/images/e/e6/Reflex_reticle.jpg

for lgun/mdriver:
http://stringofthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/aw50-scope.jpg


Haraldx

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2010, 04:15:44 pm »
I personaly think that Massdriver should mark aliens and humans when zoomed in. Something like this - http://www.clipser.com/vimages/45c48cce2e2d7fbdea1afc51c7c6ad26/a5bfc9e07964f8dddeb95fc584cd965d/d785bf9067f8af9e078b93cf26de2b54d31.jpg

Yes that is BF2 and that is an actual screen when Anti-air devices lock on air vechicles. I am not suggesting lock on, but marking the aliens with red cube, but humans with blue circle.
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Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 08:05:35 pm »
I think humans should have a buildable that adds a minimap to the hud, similar to Warzone 2100. If it's destroyed, they lose minimap. The act of moving your gunsight over an alien should mark that alien on everyone's minimap for a limited time, battlfield style.

wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 08:51:06 pm »
the conzul's and haraldx's ideas are fine to me.
but,
------

one thing I dislike, the tremulous, it is easier to learn to play the human, some of my ideas can make life difficult for anyone who plays in human.

more ideas for humans:
most movements consume stamina(walk, aiming(secunrady fire), fire, reload...well, almost everything),but, some consume less, others consume much more.
reason> more realism, and, help in balance, and humans will think before wasting energy(Agility is a characteristic of the aliens, not humans).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 09:14:36 pm by wolfbr »

StevenM

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 08:55:58 pm »
how does adding a scope to nearly every weapon constitute to making humans more difficult. you are stupid. not only would adding scopes to various weapons make it easier, itd encourage camping.

wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 09:17:19 pm »
how does adding a scope to nearly every weapon constitute to making humans more difficult. you are stupid. not only would adding scopes to various weapons make it easier, itd encourage camping.
not because humans have to learn to switch the types of attack(primary/secundary-close/long-fast/strong..), something that the aliens are already.

Winnie the Pooh

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2010, 09:31:02 pm »
Human weapons and forward bases have made suits a lot more practical.

May I point out that Alien Boosters and forward bases have made Tyrants a lot more practical.

In 1.1 you were better off with a helmet since weapons were less effective than they are in 1.2


Look, that's pretty slanted of you to say that. You can't just make generalizations like that.

especially at close range.

Okay, you can't just come in here and say that weapons are less effective at close range. You're talking about all the weapons in general? STOP with the generalizations please.

You have to consider alien regen too, you could expect an alien to fight and lead corners in 1.1 in 1.2 they can't unless they have enough lisk support.


If you mean "fight" as in "A quick skirmish that ends up in either player dead in a couple seconds" then it is definitely possible for Aliens to win.

If you mean "Fight" as in "Holding a front at the corner" that's what forward bases are for.

Basilisks are always used AFTER the skirmish, not during. If no basilisk is available, run.

Because of that BattleSuit is a lot stronger.

Not really, I just explained why not.

Chainsuits were already terrorizing enough in 1.1 if there weren't enough rants to counter them but in 1.2 they are especially deadly.

Couple things: Chainsuits are supposed to be powerful. Remember that.

Next, I'm surprised that you of all people would say that Tyrants are the only thing that can counter a chainsuit. Really, an Adv. Goon or even a plain old, normal marauder can. The Chaingun's weakness is it's spread and it's low damage per shot.

Meaning that you have to be moderately close (if it's a small target) and you have to keep shooting it for a longer period of time. So fast-moving marauders can do the trick because of that.

Since a rant that is really good at trample is the only thing that can touch them and with lower hp/terrible range rant's aren't nearly as much as a threat to them.

I'm not sure how you can say that. Headswipes with a rant are as deadly as ever, and if you're not close enough you can charge them. And charging a battle-suit into a wall is equal to instant death.

So basically, the combination of alien nerfs and human OP's made BSuit OP.

So basically, the combination alien changes and human changes have made them roughly equal. Depending on skill level, and the map and other details.
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I also realize that this is the internet, but even more so this is the forum for a video game on an internet, then even beyond that this is TREMULOUS forums the Satan version of all video game forums for a video game that is ON the internet.

Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2010, 09:12:06 pm »
Lol you suggest making stamina drain for every action. Heh, that'll really help stop the camping situation.

wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2010, 01:30:07 am »
Lol you suggest making stamina drain for every action. Heh, that'll really help stop the camping situation.
see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIMxucDbjjY&feature=related
when the soldier is walking, the stamina drain very slowly, but, for other movements, it drains more.
else, the new build system prevents camping.

Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 05:18:47 pm »
I think it's an UN-needed complication. Why you try to complicate things?

wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2010, 02:00:10 pm »
now it is easy to play with human, so most choose to play in human, and learn to play a human is much easier than learning to play alien, not complication.
both sides might like this idea, and the game would be more balanced(at 1.2 since the aliens are weaker).


ShadowNinjaDudeMan

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2010, 06:25:42 pm »
Knives would be utterly useless unless they "shoved" aliens away from you as well as hurt them.

This would perhaps buy you precious little time to escape.
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Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2010, 09:27:26 pm »
I would like some kind of rifle butt hit, like from Halo. Knockback mainly, enough so that you could play baseball with dretches if invincibility were turned on.

Demolution

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Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2010, 04:09:13 pm »
Yes, like that, except with the rifle butt.

wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2010, 04:19:06 am »
knife was basically a gun, when there is no better alternative, however, could be useful sometimes(vs  :basilisk: grab, or in tight spaces, a gon/tt are attacking your base, and comes close to a stab, vs  :dretch:...).

other idea:
aiming> would be interesting if the aim was similar to games like couter strike, urban terror, fear, wolfet..
that the longer you hold the fire button, you will have less precision(indicated by the contracting crosshairs),All auto weapons have reduced accuracy when firing(auto,semi-auto) or moving(semi auto),All weapons have some loss of accuracy when they are fired by a moving shooter(This is especially true of the semi-auto weapons).

StevenM

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2010, 05:25:34 pm »
knife was basically a gun, when there is no better alternative, however, could be useful sometimes(vs  :basilisk: grab, or in tight spaces, a gon/tt are attacking your base, and comes close to a stab, vs  :dretch:...).

other idea:
aiming> would be interesting if the aim was similar to games like couter strike, urban terror, fear, wolfet..
that the longer you hold the fire button, you will have less precision(indicated by the contracting crosshairs),All auto weapons have reduced accuracy when firing(auto,semi-auto) or moving(semi auto),All weapons have some loss of accuracy when they are fired by a moving shooter(This is especially true of the semi-auto weapons).

^ this is the best idea youve come up with. i think it would stop cowardly hall campers from simply sitting there and holding mouse1.

Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2010, 01:45:08 am »
knife was basically a gun, when there is no better alternative, however, could be useful sometimes(vs  :basilisk: grab, or in tight spaces, a gon/tt are attacking your base, and comes close to a stab, vs  :dretch:...).

other idea:
aiming> would be interesting if the aim was similar to games like couter strike, urban terror, fear, wolfet..
that the longer you hold the fire button, you will have less precision(indicated by the contracting crosshairs),All auto weapons have reduced accuracy when firing(auto,semi-auto) or moving(semi auto),All weapons have some loss of accuracy when they are fired by a moving shooter(This is especially true of the semi-auto weapons).

^ this is the best idea youve come up with. i think it would stop cowardly hall campers from simply sitting there and holding mouse1.

I highly condone this as well. Oh, and the FEAR move where you can aim around corners would be cool.

Demolution

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2010, 01:52:27 am »
I highly condone this as well. Oh, and the FEAR move where you can aim around corners would be cool.

So dretches have no chance against md's at all? :<

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wolfbr

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2010, 02:08:20 am »
I highly condone this as well. Oh, and the FEAR move where you can aim around corners would be cool.

So dretches have no chance against md's at all? :<

logic, would have more chances, since the enemy would have to stop to have a perfect aim(would be interesting if the sight of md swung(like wolfet/tcelite...), md would be a pro weapon(would have more damage and fireinterval, however, would be more difficult to use) : ).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 02:22:37 am by wolfbr »

Conzul

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Re: humans weapons and aliens classes
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2010, 05:08:11 pm »
I highly condone this as well. Oh, and the FEAR move where you can aim around corners would be cool.

So dretches have no chance against md's at all? :<

I've always thought that the MD did too much damage for its fire-rate. And MD's only kill dretches who aren't paying attention, and aren't using wallwalk. You also gotta have the sound up so you can count the rounds getting fired. BE PRO.