Feedback On 1.2 Admins

[StevenM]

I'm creating this thread for those of you who have played games where admins have been present, but have done nothing to stop deconners, tkers, basenaders, and other stupidity.

I will start: Today john, or TJW deconned the rc without warning and proceeded to move it. A number of us asked him where it was, why he moved it etc. Yet he didnt respond. Anyways I believe he did this twice, on the previous map aswell, ATCS. But i cant be sure.

This is annoying enough coming from a noob. But from an admin, come on fuck.

You should really think hard about who is given admin. Dont just give it to people who you associate with, but people who are active, dont abuse and will do their duties as admins.

[SlackerLinux]

they cant do anything much

TKers: well those you COULD kick so yeh those ppl you can
BaseNaders: cant do anything other then ban damage done and cant be repaired w/out revert its gg
Deconners: see above one

yeh 1.2 official server seems to have some bad admins dont see much action happening whatsoever and 1 game had 1 admin i wont name TK forward repeaters luckily another admin was there to kick him

if tjw was moving though i dont see an issue with that event he couldve told you where tho so you can defend/help build etc hopefully he wasn't purposely ruining the game

[kevlarman]

I'm creating this thread for those of you who have played games where admins have been present, but have done nothing to stop deconners, tkers, basenaders, and other stupidity.

I will start: Today john, or TJW deconned the rc without warning and proceeded to move it. A number of us asked him where it was, why he moved it etc. Yet he didnt respond. Anyways I believe he did this twice, on the previous map aswell, ATCS. But i cant be sure.

This is annoying enough coming from a noob. But from an admin, come on fuck.

You should really think hard about who is given admin. Dont just give it to people who you associate with, but people who are active, dont abuse and will do their duties as admins.

john (tjw's son) is about 7 or 8 iirc.

[A Spork]

they cant do anything much

TKers: well those you COULD kick so yeh those ppl you can
BaseNaders: cant do anything other then ban damage done and cant be repaired w/out revert its gg
Deconners: see above one

yeh 1.2 official server seems to have some bad admins dont see much action happening whatsoever and 1 game had 1 admin i wont name TK forward repeaters luckily another admin was there to kick him

if tjw was moving though i dont see an issue with that event he couldve told you where tho so you can defend/help build etc hopefully he wasn't purposely ruining the game

Which begs the question: why no revert?

[Lakitu7]

Which begs the question: why no revert?

Because the code's not ready for trunk yet. In progress.

[Lava_Croft]

The US GPP server lacks what the EU GPP server does not:

Actively administrating administrators.

[Asvarox]

So if we are talking about Admin system and actively administrating administators

What's the point of !passvote? I can't really find any use for this command to mantain peace on the server.

[tuple]

Uh, actually I was there, and specing john.  He almost immediately marked the Rc, ran to the lava room and started building it.  Incidently, since you may not know, the base he was attempting is a very strong base for humans on ancient remains, versus the default human base which is horrid.  Its also a very hard move later in the game, particularly against experienced aliens who know not to let humans move there.  Sadly a goon caught up with him and the move ended badly.  I give him points for trying though.

He knew what he was building and where, and his idea was very solid, so no I won't be denybuilding him.  If anyone would have spawned a ckit and built a repeater in base the humans would have been ok.  Sadly it didn't appear that anyone did.

No, I for one won't be punishing every good player who tries for a first minute base move to a really hard but really strong location.  He made a good attempt in the only moment he would have had the chance (against experienced players).  Perhaps he should have said something, and perhaps we should be more forgiving.

FWIW, I didn't do listplayers till people started complaining, then I saw that it was actually tjw.  If that was his son, then his son may be one hell of a wicked builder.

[Kiwi]

The US GPP server lacks what the EU GPP server does not:

Actively administrating administrators.

Then why not make the active EU GPP server admins admins on the US GPP server.  Even europeans play on the US GPP server when the EU GPP server is empty.

[David]

I think they should be, but it's more a technical and logistical problem.

[Demolution]

Or how about we put some faith in the server regulars, and let one or two be admins...? There are plenty who could at least keep an eye on the nawbs.

[Mario]

There are some inactive admins, or some who don't do anything when somethings going down.. We'll look out for them..

[A Spork]

An Admin application spot would be nice...

[KamikOzzy]

Let's try a compliment sandwich:

You guys suck less dick than paris hilton.
{/compliment]
We saw this inactive admin bs coming.

If John is 8, TJW is smart enough to set up a separate guid for him to play on, there shouldn't be an 8 year old running around with admin flags. Hell even my brother didn't play with admin flags on AA.

[compliment]
You must be doing something right to have all the complaints about the way things are ran, but people are still leaving 1.1 left and right.

[rotacak]

Even this is not deconner case, you see that "mark" system will solve nothing about deconners.

I played 1.2 very small amount of time (about one night) but even with that I atleast twice noticed this: I (human) comming back to base, selling weapon to arm, have blaster, choosing new weapon and nothing happen. Then I see: armoury disappeared. I am with blaster in wasteland. This must be more funny with battlesuit

That is only my note. This can be hopefully changed in server settings and I will be glad if devs will fix atleast ass attack. Suggesting something what really can do something against deconners (login system) is hopeless, even 1.2 move is best time.

[HellsAngelz]

This is indeed a deconning incident. He didn't fulfill the credentials of a certified Tremulous Builder.

Reactor movement requirements:
1) Adv./Ckit
2) Marked buildable.
3) Chosen place for replacing Buildable.
4) Move to chosen area, require backup from one player.
5) Tell entire team you are about to move Reactor to (location) backup required.
6) proceed with building, while timer is set tell team to make repeater ready in original base until able to be marked and moved for future base.


I suck at building and even I know how to build. Knowing WHERE to build and HOW to build are two different things. I say in this situation I would have deny builded him a game and gave him a long lecture on how to build.

[Norfenstein]

Or how about we put some faith in the server regulars, and let one or two be admins...? There are plenty who could at least keep an eye on the nawbs.

I believe our policy is to hand out level 3s to people we think can handle it and see what happens, which is what I've started doing. And recently I promoted a few existing 3s to level 4. It would be nice if adminship were automatically shared across the servers.

[Demolution]

I believe our policy is to hand out level 3s to people we think can handle it and see what happens, which is what I've started doing. And recently I promoted a few existing 3s to level 4. It would be nice if adminship were automatically shared across the servers.

Awesome.

[Bissig]

Or how about we put some faith in the server regulars, and let one or two be admins...? There are plenty who could at least keep an eye on the nawbs.

I believe our policy is to hand out level 3s to people we think can handle it and see what happens, which is what I've started doing. And recently I promoted a few existing 3s to level 4. It would be nice if adminship were automatically shared across the servers.

You could split off the bans (sed/awk/gawk/whatever) and do a "diff" on the part remaining with the admins. Then combine and rsync from server to server. Then fill in the local bans again.

[SlackerLinux]

Or how about we put some faith in the server regulars, and let one or two be admins...? There are plenty who could at least keep an eye on the nawbs.

I believe our policy is to hand out level 3s to people we think can handle it and see what happens, which is what I've started doing. And recently I promoted a few existing 3s to level 4. It would be nice if adminship were automatically shared across the servers.

You could split off the bans (sed/awk/gawk/whatever) and do a "diff" on the part remaining with the admins. Then combine and rsync from server to server. Then fill in the local bans again.

the admins guid's will change
id assume all current admins have cl_guidservuniq to 1 if not if i was the devs id consider demoting them now

[mooseberry]

Or how about we put some faith in the server regulars, and let one or two be admins...? There are plenty who could at least keep an eye on the nawbs.

I believe our policy is to hand out level 3s to people we think can handle it and see what happens, which is what I've started doing. And recently I promoted a few existing 3s to level 4. It would be nice if adminship were automatically shared across the servers.

You could split off the bans (sed/awk/gawk/whatever) and do a "diff" on the part remaining with the admins. Then combine and rsync from server to server. Then fill in the local bans again.

the admins guid's will change
id assume all current admins have cl_guidservuniq to 1 if not if i was the devs id consider demoting them now

Besides, they don't deserve it if they don't go on to that server anyways.

[Norfenstein]

Besides, they don't deserve it if they don't go on to that server anyways.

That's an... odd thing to say. It's a responsibility, not a reward, and they should have it because they're responsible people. So I don't see what sense it makes to say someone can be responsible in one place but not another.

[Winnie the Pooh]

I think what mooseberry means is to let the people who want administration on both servers make their own efforts to obtain it, and thus treat it like a special case.

[mooseberry]

Besides, they don't deserve it if they don't go on to that server anyways.

That's an... odd thing to say. It's a responsibility, not a reward, and they should have it because they're responsible people. So I don't see what sense it makes to say someone can be responsible in one place but not another.

All I'm saying is if they can't spend enough time on a server to at least obtain adminship, let alone prove they are good at admin, than they probably shouldn't be an admin on that server. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

Sure an admin who is good on one server might be good on another, but that doesn't mean a server owner should add everyone they've ever seen in Tremulous who's been a good admin as an admin on their server. If that person doesn't actually spend time being an admin on a specific server, than it seems logical that they won't be admin on that specific server.

[Liskey]

I think what mooseberry means is to let the people who want administration on both servers make their own efforts to obtain it, and thus treat it like a special case.

And I think what Norf means is that effort to obtain admin is counterproductive - ask and ye shall be denied.

Since both official servers are the responsibility of the same people (the devs), it would make sense to have admin assignments synchronized across them.  There is no particular harm if someone with admin on the official servers usually plays on only one of them.

[Winnie the Pooh]

Right but since you are not automatically given permission for both servers, it would stand to reason that if you've been entrusted with adminship for one server, you would be given adminship for the other if you made efforts to obtain it.

[mooseberry]

I think I mean what I said, and I have a hunch Norf meant what he said. Not some other ideas other people seem to be getting.

[Liskey]

Sigh ... sardony is wasted on the Internet.

Everyone can read the black-letter text of what was written, and everyone can put their own (not the author's) interpretation on it.  That is an axiom and should be universally understood.

Your actual words were:

All I'm saying is if they can't spend enough time on a server to at least obtain adminship, let alone prove they are good at admin, than they probably shouldn't be an admin on that server. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

in response to

they should have it because they're responsible people.

*I'm* saying that in my opinion you are wrong and Norf is right.

Is that quite clear?  And yet, isn't that a pedantic and artless way of putting it?  I prefer the other way.

[Norfenstein]

All I'm saying is if they can't spend enough time on a server to at least obtain adminship, let alone prove they are good at admin, than they probably shouldn't be an admin on that server. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

They obtain it by one of us thinking they're responsible enough to handle it, and then us giving it to them. I don't know why you think time should have anything to do with it. It's not an RPG where you have to grind on one instance in order to level up.

Dealing with teamkillers, griefers, and assholes is a chore. If a person wants to do it -- instead of having others handle it so they can actually play the game -- then they're probably not suited for the job.

Sure an admin who is good on one server might be good on another, but that doesn't mean a server owner should add everyone they've ever seen in Tremulous who's been a good admin as an admin on their server. If that person doesn't actually spend time being an admin on a specific server, than it seems logical that they won't be admin on that specific server.

It seems logical to me that you would add all the people you trust are good admins. The more admins there are the less likely the server will be without one when it's needed.

[mooseberry]

All I'm saying is if they can't spend enough time on a server to at least obtain adminship, let alone prove they are good at admin, than they probably shouldn't be an admin on that server. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

They obtain it by one of us thinking they're responsible enough to handle it, and then us giving it to them. I don't know why you think time should have anything to do with it. It's not an RPG where you have to grind on one instance in order to level up.

Dealing with teamkillers, griefers, and assholes is a chore. If a person wants to do it -- instead of having others handle it so they can actually play the game -- then they're probably not suited for the job.

Sure an admin who is good on one server might be good on another, but that doesn't mean a server owner should add everyone they've ever seen in Tremulous who's been a good admin as an admin on their server. If that person doesn't actually spend time being an admin on a specific server, than it seems logical that they won't be admin on that specific server.

It seems logical to me that you would add all the people you trust are good admins. The more admins there are the less likely the server will be without one when it's needed.

Well I see what you're saying, and this is really a personal thing, I don't believe there's a right or a wrong. I just think admins need to prove that they are spending time doing their responsibilites in order to obtain and keep their powers, besides just being trustworthy, while that does not seem as important to you. Luckily we are not both trying to appoint admins on the same server, and as this is getting a bit off topic, unless you have anything else to say, I figure we can agree our opinions are different.