Banned by "Pro" builder on 1.2

[Mr.Mustashio]

I was just banned about two minutes ago on 1.2 in Euro server by Saliva.ddos or some such person.

What occured was an overzealous reaction to what I perceived--and still feel is--bad building.



I and the accused admin were on the human team in the map Arachnid 2. The game was maybe three minutes into progression when I noticed someone had put up an armory wall to block the front of the base. I was at first surprised then annoyed by it and took a moment to see whether it was viable. However I then abandoned this action due to he knowledge that all types of combat-alien can over an armory, either by climbing or simply jumping over it. They were more likely to destroy them first then put in the effort to jump over them anyways.

So to get rid of them quickly I bought a p-saw. Killed both. Then I looked around the base for another arm. Saw the RC on the other side of the room, and began to walk towards it. At first I wondered why there were so few rets, but felt that they were still close enough to protect one another. It was during this time I saw a node,rep, and arm under the double-stairs in h-def. Because of the location and close proximity of other nodes and the rc, I felt that it was a useless space to place another arm and a node. So I went over to destroy it.

I started first on the rep, then went on to the node during which I accidentally bled a teamate down to 43 hp. In retribution he began to bleed me until I yelled at him to stop. Telling him to calm down. Then I looked around for the builder so as to hopefully convince him to stop building or simply deny his building privileges.

Thats when I saw Saliva.ddos standing behind me with the c-kit. A second later I was banned, and the reason was:



"Do not disturb a masters work."




I wasn't given any time to explain my actions nor was the reason valid, as an arm wall is nothing more than feeding buildings. I can see how the further destruction of the other small portion of the base could cause problems, but not enough for banning without explanation.

I feel that proper administrative action should be taken against Saliva.ddos for hid/her actions.

[Saliva]

Thank you for the hilarious post. I didn't think there would be anything entertaining on the forums at the moment but you proved me wrong. Please continue.

[Meisseli]

I believe you got kicked for tking buildings. Stuff under the stairs is actually very much worth it since killing them is really hard with Saliva's masterbase. What you should've probably done is to calm down, play, and trust Saliva's masterbuilding, for he truly is the master.

[janev]

If you think someone is building poorly you voice your opinion. Acceptable options would be to a) either ask politely if you can take over building or b) a polite "this will end badly" and go about your business. You do not voice it by destroying the buildings you think are useless. You have no right to expect them to spend their time adhering to your designs.

You also do not automatically assume you know better. Since Saliva is a glorious oldfag he probably does know better.  Alternatively he could have been out for shits and giggles, which is also ok. I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you.

Do not disturb a masters work.

qft

[A Spork]

Tking the buildings is not the right way to go about disagreeing with a build, althogh I have to say the ban reason is a load of crap.
Perhaps sane ban reasons would be a good idea, hmmm?

[F50]

The ban reason is indeed a horrible, shameful load of crap.

However, tking buildings and bleeding can make you look like a griefer. Furthermore, Saliva is pretty pro as far as things go, so unless he was doing it for the laughs, his build should have been fairly sane, especially if you're talking about armories on a repeater.

As long as you didn't kill the second to last node and/or last armory (in which case you could've been banned for malicious destruction of the base, aka. decon), the ban was far out of proportion IMO though, and yeah, probably worth looking into, especially considering saliva's response to this. A warning followed by either putteam spec, denybuild, and/or kick (but even that could be considered harsh) would've been more appropriate. You wouldn't happen to have a demo would you? If not, do turn on cl_autorecorddemo, its very useful in this kind of situation.

Finally, this should probably be in the official servers forum.

[Saliva]

I didn't ban him it was a kick. But yeah try communicating next time and maybe you'll get better results.

[Mr.Mustashio]

If you think someone is building poorly you voice your opinion. Acceptable options would be to a) either ask politely if you can take over building or b) a polite "this will end badly" and go about your business. You do not voice it by destroying the buildings you think are useless. You have no right to expect them to spend their time adhering to your designs.

True and agreed. Yet spur of the moment decision was to remove the armory wall at the front of the base.

You also do not automatically assume you know better. Since Saliva is a glorious oldfag he probably does know better.  Alternatively he could have been out for shits and giggles, which is also ok. I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you.

Unless they're very, very new any trem player will say that placing two armories side by side to block a hallway is bad. There's no debating that, it just doesn't work against aliens ever. Certainly, hes been around for a quite some time, but that doesn't mean a bad tactic will work just because he implements it.
While I'm all for having fun, and will base nade a base (that I built) for the joy of it, I still announce my antics prior to acting them out. This serves as a warning for my team, and basically avoids immense shit-storms of rage from practically everyone. Saliva didn't mention he was building for the lulz, not the game.

Also I will state that I am still a 'new' player and therefore the lines of kick and ban are blurred to me, as I've experience little to none of either. However I am experienced enough to know good and bad building when I see it.

And could someone please tell me how to play/post demos? It's getting way to late here and I'm in the middle of regents week.

[A Spork]

to post a demo just upload the file
play it with /demo [demoname]

and kick is essentially a short ban. kick is usually something like 30min, ban can be longer.

[God, maker of the world]

So to get rid of them quickly I bought a p-saw. Killed both.

And it was not clear to you what that would look like?

I wasn't given any time to explain my actions nor was the reason valid,

You had time before deconning with the painsaw. And people who are without a doubt deconners can very well be treated with a more creative kick/ban reason. Because, you know, it's not like you have to explain to a standard deconner that he is deconning. That you were mistaken for a deconner is entirely your fault. That you are not aware that people cannot regard any and all remote possibilities (for example that you were actually not a deconner) is also your fault.

I feel that proper administrative action should be taken against Saliva.ddos for hid/her actions.

xD

While I'm all for having fun, and will base nade a base (that I built) for the joy of it, I still announce my antics prior to acting them out. This serves as a warning for my team, and basically avoids immense shit-storms of rage from practically everyone. Saliva didn't mention he was building for the lulz, not the game.

You really have the balls to try to turn this situation exactly upside-down? As if Saliva were the evil one because he didn't explain his building in beforehand, whereas you are not the evil one even though you painsaw-deconned without explaining in beforehand?

The kick was justified. If not for the decon then for the lack of common sense and honesty.

Thank you for the hilarious post. I didn't think there would be anything entertaining on the forums at the moment but you proved me wrong. Please continue.

Indeed. :)

and kick is essentially a short ban. kick is usually something like 30min, ban can be longer.

A kick is just removal from the server. A ban is a timespan in which connecting to the server is not possible. Oftentimes, a kick will automatically have a short bantime so that people cool down instead of immediately returning.

[Meisseli]

As if Saliva were the evil one because he didn't explain his building in beforehand, whereas you are not the evil one even though you painsaw-deconned without explaining in beforehand?

I would agree with this one.

Anyways, no harm done, it was merely a kick. Come back after 4 or so minutes and life and having fun in Tremulous goes on!

[Aviator]

Also I will state that I am still a 'new' player and therefore the lines of kick and ban are blurred to me, as I've experience little to none of either. However I am experienced enough to know good and bad building when I see it. 

You were kicked because you didn't tell him your intentions and you looked like someone random person going to tk what he built...at least that's how I see it.

[jm82792]

Where can i see his great building?
I'm always trying to get better.

[Saliva]

Where can i see his great building?
I'm always trying to get better.

Play on europe server and I can help you if we are on at the same time.

[Deadbeat Engineer]

immense shit-storms of rage

OMG cuz that made me laugh. And they're right.
We've been over this before when it was perma-logged in to US serv, I kicked so you could come back in in 2 min.
Chillax.

[Mr.Mustashio]

immense shit-storms of rage

OMG cuz that made me laugh. And they're right.
We've been over this before when it was perma-logged in to US serv, I kicked so you could come back in in 2 min.
Chillax.

That's a separate event, and totally unrelated to the current situation. I expressed no anxiety over your kick. I mean seriously dude, you talked to me over the phone about it and I was totally chill.


Alright, I'll use more patience and forethought next time. I must be dretch-storming to much because I'm getting impulsive on Trem. Though despite the way this all turned out, I'm glad for the response from trem. Shows it'll actually say something when it care.

I feel I should apologize to Saliva, but he seems to have already been amused by the topic.