Author Topic: Map: Specula (b4)  (Read 30044 times)

SamOz

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Re: Map: Specula (b2)
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2011, 03:03:10 am »
I get a whole slew of error messages when I try to run this map, and the screen freezes, then the server crashes.
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Xedoh

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Re: Map: Specula (b2)
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2011, 03:35:09 pm »
Hmm I already know about the errors, but I haven't had a crash because of them before. Sorry for that :-\. They are already fixed in the version I'm working on, thanks to Uniq and gimhael. If I don't encounter any further problems, I might be able to release b3 soon.
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SamOz

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Re: Map: Specula (b2)
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2011, 02:40:45 pm »
 Since my server is basically running KoRx, which is finicky sometimes with compatibilities, it's probably less tolerant of weird accumulations of errors when loading a map.

Looking forward to trying again anyway :) Looks like it could be a brilliant map
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Xedoh

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2011, 11:30:34 pm »
It's been some time and I admit I've been lazy. Well, anyway, b3 is out :).

There are bigger gameplay-changes now: Another room as well as a new way to get away from the alien base. I'm really keen on knowing if it was a change for the better or the worse. Full changelog once again in the readme.

I'm still looking for proper sounds for the artillery and the vent-elevator. If anybody got something good that would be great.

Since all errors/warnings are fixed in this version (at least afaik), I'd really like to see it on the official server. This would greatly help me getting some data about balancing. This is most likely going to be the last beta, as long as there is no major imbalance.
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UniqPhoeniX

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2011, 04:33:36 am »
Excellent ;D

The long thin lights on walls between passage and storage don't look very good, and IMO should be changed. Maybe with something like is in reactors?
Perhaps a few plants in garden? Then again that place isn't exactly getting a lot of sun xD. What about the grass area near human base?

CorSair

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2011, 08:33:49 am »
*CorSair drools

With two other escape/assault routes to alien default, gameplay issue seems to be only minor thing on this map.

And now I hope it is just about details right...? ;)

I'm still looking for proper sounds for the artillery and the vent-elevator. If anybody got something good that would be great.
I'll try to find some, although I don't have high hopes finding right ones. :P


And I would like to see this in officials too. This map has high qualities, both in looks as well in gameplay.

DraZiLoX

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2011, 10:16:05 am »
I've been loving this map since first release and finally new release!

+Mirrored

Kasofa

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2011, 05:07:43 pm »
Very good map. The first time I played it, I put an egg hidden in the cooling place (the room with the round red light ring at the end and the vent in the ceiling) and aliens managed to stay alive with one egg after the om had gone down for almost 10 minutes, camping the laser trap was hilarious.
I f1.

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teramotoka

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2011, 08:24:08 pm »
It is too bad you can't enter the area with the big artillery gun.

Other than that this is the best map I have tried so far.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 08:25:57 pm by teramotoka »

Xedoh

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2011, 02:45:27 pm »
I've seen in the gamelogs that there are plenty people complaining about missing textures all of a sudden (haven't seen it myself however). This, and the fact that I now have some data about the map's balance (18x aliens win; 23x humans win; 5x tie; 1 draw) made me decide to work on b4 now.

I assume the texture-problem has something to do with the default maps being replaced (I have therefor decided to include all the textures in the .pk3 itself to avoid this in future versions. This will, however, drastically increase the file-size.)

The actual reason I'm posting this is that, for b4, I wanted to ask the people who played the map to give me a bit of feedback on how to get the balance better. (Humans won about 50% of the games, aliens just 40%. I have 2 ideas I'd really like to know your opinion about
  • I intended to nerf the cooling system (by cutting the grids that separate the room, so aliens (up to maras) and jetpackers can climb/jump/fly across them). Do you think that's a good idea? I don't want the room to be a useless place for a base, but I think it's too strong atm.
  • Should I close the wall near the human base (at the ladder to the vent), so humans can't shoot through anymore?

It would also be nice to know where I should do something about the clipping (besides the maintenance corridor, I already know it's horrible).

I also wanted to encourage the people that constantly cry in-game about how crappy the map is to give me some actual feedback here. I'm not saying you have to like my map and I'm not asking you to not express your opinion, but I'd really like to know WHY you don't like it. I can't really fix what's wrong if you don't tell me.

I appreciate any feedback and/or criticism.
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Meisseli

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2011, 04:12:35 pm »
The main problem with the map is that there are multiple rooms that make too good bases for both teams. Due to this the gameplay is pretty bad, a 30-45 minute camp game where Sudden Death decides the outcome of the game, if it does.

Such rooms are: Artillery Control (alien default), Storage (human default), Cooling System. Alien default for example has basically only a single entrance. The other two aren't proper entrances: one of them is only accessible with jetpack, and the other one is a vent that is either accessible by jetpack or by an entrance really close to the alien base itself. Those two other entrances are not good enough to be used properly by humans, and such the alien default with its single entrance is almost as horrible as the Window Room in Niveus. The corridors leading to the single entrance are very good for aliens also, I would suggest adding another entrance to the alien base with a more wider area around it.

Cooling System has only one entrance again, with a single vent being no option for either team to attack the heavily fortified base from. It makes for the best base in the map for both teams to move into, I haven't seen anyone losing a match after moving there.

Human default is extremely campable. The vent isn't an option to attack from since it's easily blocked and doesn't allow bigger aliens to pass through. The vent area allows humans to deal so heavy damage to aliens coming from Passage that that entrance isn't an option at all. Once again we're down to one single entrance, the Panorama Corridor, but it has a longer route and nobody ever uses it, which leads to my next point:



The map is designed so that there's a fast route (marked cyan) leading to human base with the middle area (marked yellow) being straightforward and very fast for aliens and humans to travel through. There's not much incentive to use any other routes since they are harder to navigate and take longer to travel through. The Panorama Corridor route (marked green) is used very occasionally by lone humans/aliens. With no action, nobody wants to attack through there. With the base locations being where they are, 50% of the map is left completely unused (marked grey): again because of a long route and no action happening at all.


All in all the map certainly is nice-looking, has an interesting reddish theme and a nice vent system, and has plenty of potential, but the gameplay isn't fun. Some rooms definitely need to be made weaker, and perhaps the layout of the map needs re-thinking, since so much of the map is left unused.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 04:17:29 pm by Meisseli »

F50

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2011, 06:47:05 pm »
I find myself using the panorama corridor a lot against alien default, actually. Unfortunately, there is only one effective path (the fast path) to cooling system from human default.
"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice." -- Grey's Law


Nux

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2011, 06:53:08 pm »

Meisseli

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2011, 07:20:47 pm »

Lakitu7

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2011, 08:28:39 pm »
Meisseli's post is really informative and I for one hope that some of it is acted upon because this map has a lot of potential to go from pretty good to great.

Xedoh

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2011, 10:11:26 pm »
Thank you very much for the advice meisseli. I have been thinking and I came up with something that might work:



The light green routes are, as meisseli pointed out, almost the only ones used. My idea was to cut the route through the passage (crossed out brown), forcing players to take the longer route through the maintenance-corridors (dark green).

The red one (leading through the gallery) is currently hardly ever being used. However, if I cut the way from the artillery to the reactors (crossed out brown) and instead create a way from the reactors to the back of the alien base (brown line), this way might become more appealing, especially to humans. I know that the light green route will still be faster, however I think the back door should be easier to attack in return.

The problem I see with those changes is that the route through the passage (and the maintenance-corridors now) might become highly unattractive. I however think that this area has some nice base spots, which might put the focus there in the lategame. Another point I'm afraid of is that this (especially the alien backdoor) might shift the balance even more towards humans.

Thoughts about that?

Xedoh, here's that sound I said I'd get you.

Niceeee! That sound is a shitload better than the current one. However, it's very quiet. You got any way to get it louder without messing up the quality?

EDIT: Just added a screenshot of the current cooling system (see attachment, editor view). Might still be too strong.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:49:52 pm by Xedoh »
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Nux

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2011, 09:13:52 pm »
I tried the sound in-game and yes it sound pitifully quiet and also gains some nasty noise.

My guess (and this is an utter guess) is that there's some sort of compression going on here that ruins the sound, and that the sound needs to be compressed beforehand in a more sensible way. Sadly, I've no idea what quality it reduces to or how to reduce it. Some help would be appreciated because what I've tried just hasn't worked.

EDIT: well this is the best I could do with it after working on it for much too long.

artillery.wav
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 10:12:51 pm by Nux »

Xedoh

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2011, 10:28:33 pm »
Thank you very very very much for that. It still more quiet than the original sound, but I don't think anyone will mind due to the huge increase in quality. ;D ;D ;D
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teramotoka

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2011, 01:17:52 am »
I like the map very much, underneath you in the human base I have noticed the train. Is there a way for you to give access to that train? It might make the game very much more interesting.

Pazuzu

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2011, 05:39:07 am »
I like the map very much, underneath you in the human base I have noticed the train. Is there a way for you to give access to that train? It might make the game very much more interesting.
The train goes out of the map. I hope you like watching the human team scamper away from the fight.

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

teramotoka

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Re: Map: Specula (b3)
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2011, 03:32:44 pm »
I like the map very much, underneath you in the human base I have noticed the train. Is there a way for you to give access to that train? It might make the game very much more interesting.
The train goes out of the map. I hope you like watching the human team scamper away from the fight.

What if the train goes from one end to the other and back again. That way there could be an Indiana Jones train fight as well.

Xedoh

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Re: Map: Specula (b4)
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2011, 03:58:56 pm »
I've been off tremulous for a while but when i checked tremstats i saw, to my surprise, that specula is one of the most played custom maps on us1 (after nano, orion and UTCS). Thanks to all who play (and maybe vote for) the map. While I'm kinda proud of that, a look at the map's balance was not that nice (although it was not really unsurprising). So I dug out radiant again and completed working on b4.

Beta 4 has some major design changes as seen in the picture a few topics back (and an additional route from the drainage to cooling). It is experimental, so for the next version it might (partly) return back to b3 (depending which way it is more balanced). I also nerfed the cooling system, changed alien-default and blocked off the wall near the human base.

The file-size got considerably bigger because I now included all textures (those from default maps) in the .pk3 itself. This is because the change of the default-maps messed the textures on specula up badly and I don't want something like this to happen again.

A big "thank you" to Nux again for the new artillery-sound he provided :).

Other changes are better clipping in some areas and some improved brushwork/detailing.

I'd like to know where to add more/better clipping and in which areas you think the map needs more detail. I'm still looking for a sound when the vent-elevator starts, some kind off beeping noise would be fine.

As for the train, I won't make it accessible because trains are generally quite buggy. Also, accessible outside areas are hard to design well.

dl-link in the main post

Have fun!
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Nux

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Re: Map: Specula (b4)
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2011, 09:35:18 pm »
Looking good! I look forward to playing some big games on this map.

Cheers!

Meisseli

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Re: Map: Specula (b4)
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2011, 01:16:47 am »
Damn - I totally missed this one. The new version hasn't been played almost at all - should vote it in the official servers one day and test it out!