About new tremulous sounds ...

[Drag222]

I've been on a test server with some of them, and clearly they are shitty...
So I was thinking 2 things. I know tremulous devs have problem with non-existent license and to be honnest I don't know how these legal stuff works, but I was wondering if there weren't some way to go around the license stuff...

The sound that are in 1.1 are they legal or not? because if yes, then I though a way to avoid license problems might be just to make a "patch" from 1.1 to 1.2 wich doesn't touch the sounds and only replace needed files, or in the worst case make some software allowing to copy and paste the sounds that are in the game and get them in 1.2?
And if it's not legal then I'm guessing nobody realy cares since -- unless I haven't heard of it -- there hasn't been any complains about tremulous sound beeing stolen or something ... so I'm not thinking to just keep the sounds but wel I guess noone would care either if someone makes a "custom sounds pack" for 1.2 with 1.1 sounds...

So yeah, hum, just wondering.

[freezway]

About a patch - The liability would go to whoever hosts the patch.
Legal Stuff - No way to get around copyright
About not caring - if they DO start caring the dev's could be sued like crazy.

[Haraldx]

If there is a copy-right, sooner or later the devs will be sued.

[Drag222]

Wel it's not like if the devs were an actual corporation with a legal contract or something to be part of the game development, so legally, the devs shouldn't be more responsible than anyone else?
Anyway I was more thinking of an actual tremulous player making that custom sound pack...
I will not play tremulous with shitty sounds that's for sure !!!

[tucho]

so legally, the devs shouldn't be more responsible than anyone else?

Who is distributing a game with potentially copyright infringing sounds? The devs or "anyone else"?
I mean, someone has to pay the server bills, right? So there is at least one person that could be held liable of copyright infringement.

[Kiwi]

I'm curious too, why do we need new sounds?  Just incase there are copyright problems?

[KillerWhale]

If the licenses for all of the sounds cannot be found, Tremulous cannot go in repositories for package managers. (see: Ubuntu Software Center, etc.)

It's been determined that this is a large enough section of the playerbase that it is worth pursuing sound replacements.

[Asvarox]

Also, if you think current sound replacements suck, you can go and try make some by your own. Nothing is written on stone in that matter.

[Drag222]

so legally, the devs shouldn't be more responsible than anyone else?

Who is distributing a game with potentially copyright infringing sounds? The devs or "anyone else"?
I mean, someone has to pay the server bills, right? So there is at least one person that could be held liable of copyright infringement.

That's the kind of thing I was wondering, yeah...
But anyway, I like how you guys like to just skip the part of my post wich is obviously my main question

Anyway I was more thinking of an actual tremulous player making that custom sound pack...
I will not play tremulous with shitty sounds that's for sure !!!

To KillerWhale : that's actualy the cleverest answer yet.


and to Asvarox :

Also, if you think current sound replacements suck, you can go and try make some by your own. Nothing is written on stone in that matter.

Dude that's such a shitty answer, you write this because you think "*sigh* one more troll" and then come and say "DO IT YOURSELF IDIOT"
You know I'm not capable of sounds making, I was just making a statement saying that the actual new sounds are more than shitty, and I was wondering what were the legal issues, this answer is totaly useless... If you tried the new sounds (there is a server with a couple of them although not yet equalized...) I would be curious to know what you think of them?
the reason for the shitty quality is simple, anyone choosing a sound for anything makes it so that they don't fit wel together... it's like trying to create a new song and saying "hey everyone chooses a note"

[benmachine]

I don't speak for all of the devs when I say this, but I don't think our primary concern is being sued. The sounds are such that their original authors probably do not have either the time or inclination to pursue legal action. The two problems are that (a) claiming ownership and licencing rights over someone else's work is immoral, and (b):

If the licenses for all of the sounds cannot be found, Tremulous cannot go in repositories for package managers. (see: Ubuntu Software Center, etc.)

So we're not looking for some kind of "workaround" here. It is already possible, I believe, for servers to host sound paks in such a way that users may, but are not required to, use them, so if you want to replace the sounds go ahead. But for the official release, we want to be able to attribute credit where it's due and respect the wishes of the original authors of the work.

Sounds that are legal for use in 1.1 might have been so because the authors gave special permission, or made a licence exception, which would not necessarily transfer to 1.2. The fact that many of the licences for the sounds have now gone missing means it might be unwise to continue to assume this permission. Again, I'm speaking only my opinion, and hypothetically.

[Kiwi]

Ok, it makes sense that we should use 1.1 sounds without asking the old creators first, and I guess some of them we can't get in touch with or don't care enough to relicense them.  However I though that it was decided that tremulous 1.2 wasn't going to get into the debian/fedora/etc repositories:

There are still a couple of lingering questions about licensing, but as of now, I can say that the devs (Timbo) have concluded that the cc-sampling+ is OK for use at this time. Ideally we'd like to keep it cc-by-sa 3.0, but we can live with this. This does mean that Tremulous will not be in the debian/fedora/etc repositories, but we have decided we can live with this also; we no longer have a professional quality in-house sound engineer to rely on, so some compromises must be taken.

Or did something change from then to now?

[David]

cc-sampling+ can't get into main repos, but it can get into the "universe" or whatever repos, which is basically as good.
With unprovable licensing they won't touch it.

[Drag222]

Wel thanks for the answering, now I get all of it ... but it's still sad for tremulous to officialy lose its current sounds... they're great :O

[Nux]

Sounds that are legal for use in 1.1 might have been so because the authors gave special permission, or made a licence exception, which would not necessarily transfer to 1.2.

I agree with everthing else you said, but in this case I think it's important to keep a sense of perspective. If a person gave permission for the sounds to be used in 1.1, what reason could there be for those permissions to be withdrawn in the event of an update to the game?

As far as I can see, the sound licensing has been an issue for a while now and the pending release of 1.2 has simply made it convenient and perhaps necessary to finally address the matter.