Author Topic: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?  (Read 15946 times)

UB|FuN Damcgee

  • Posts: 34
  • Turrets: +0/-1
    • Tremulous Fun Server Official Website
[RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« on: January 04, 2011, 04:13:47 pm »
hey guys is blender the only software that trem can import? cos google sketchup is quite good and is about a million times easyer to use and navigate (in my opinion) but i dont know if it does animation... *sigh* but blender is like WOW what the hell so many options! how do i even draw 1 line! lol ok so this is just an idea maybe using other easyer software so more people can contribute? just an idea as i said before but we should take it onboard! <- original post


OK so ive been thinking that maybe it would be cool to work on my "blending" skills.   and i was wondering;
1.  Should i work on my skills with Blender?
2.  If so where should i go to find some good tutorials (considering i have some considerable expeireience with 2D+3D rendering with other software)

Thanks in advance, Damcgee

« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 11:02:57 am by UB|FuN Damcgee »
UB|FuN FTW!!!!!! (with :turret: control...)

:turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::dretch:

Pazuzu

  • Posts: 987
  • Turrets: +50/-12
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 04:50:58 pm »
SketchUp is the MS Paint to Blender's Photoshop. If you learn to use Blender, it *will* pay off in the long run, especially for modeling characters. I speak from experience. Still, if you want professional-level 3D with an easier interface than Blender, get Maya or something like it. Or just check out Blender 2.5, it's much easier to use and has a completely redesigned user interface.
That being said, see if SketchUp has an MD3 export option. MD3 is the format Tremulous uses, and it's the format you'll want your models in.

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

DraZiLoX

  • Posts: 844
  • Turrets: +24/-24
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 04:58:22 pm »
Hell no, Blender is free, photoshop isnt. More like GIMP.

Pazuzu

  • Posts: 987
  • Turrets: +50/-12
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 05:04:06 pm »
Hell no, Blender is free, photoshop isnt. More like GIMP.
The kid uses SketchUp for 3D, you think he's heard of the GIMP?

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

DraZiLoX

  • Posts: 844
  • Turrets: +24/-24
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 05:14:27 pm »
Hell no, Blender is free, photoshop isnt. More like GIMP.
The kid uses SketchUp for 3D, you think he's heard of the GIMP?
Hmm, you're right. But do you think he understands that paint is awful drawing program?

Pazuzu

  • Posts: 987
  • Turrets: +50/-12
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 05:18:50 pm »
Hmm, you're right. But do you think he understands that paint is awful drawing program?
Touché.
Damcgee: I just thought of something else. See if there's some format SketchUp can export and Blender can import. I did this a lot when I started modeling (with Wings 3D :o): Make the model in SketchUp, open it in Blender, and export from there.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 05:21:07 pm by Pazuzu »

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

jm82792

  • Posts: 630
  • Turrets: +9/-34
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 05:04:12 am »
Hmm.
For modeling Blender isn't far from Maya and such,
Things like "I want to do a realistic animation of a great whatever" or
"I want an still that will be photo-realistic" then you will definitely appreciate Maya, XSI or the like much more than Blender because Blender has some immature categories and lacks many nice things that make finishing your project much easier. But I love Blender and it works well, although the "challenge" gets under my skin.

UB|FuN Damcgee

  • Posts: 34
  • Turrets: +0/-1
    • Tremulous Fun Server Official Website
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 10:51:07 am »
Hmm, you're right. But do you think he understands that paint is awful drawing program?
See if there's some format SketchUp can export and Blender can import. I did this a lot when I started modeling (with Wings 3D :o): Make the model in SketchUp, open it in Blender, and export from there.

this i could try to find out but considering the last time i used blender was on my dads old lap[top when i was 8 i could probably figure it out now ALOT easier , and yes i do know what is meant by sketchup is MS paint to Blender being Gimp (which i use frequently) or Photoshop but thanks for the input and ill try to get a copy of Blender and start helping the "Community".
UB|FuN FTW!!!!!! (with :turret: control...)

:turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::dretch:

UB|FuN Damcgee

  • Posts: 34
  • Turrets: +0/-1
    • Tremulous Fun Server Official Website
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 11:06:28 am »
HOLY SHIT! how the hell do you use this software!?!?!?!?!! i mean come on!  hmmm... ummm do you need a 3 button mouse? or even a 2 button mouse? cos ATM im using a single button touch pad on a laptop... maybe why im having trouble?
UB|FuN FTW!!!!!! (with :turret: control...)

:turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::turret::dretch:

DraZiLoX

  • Posts: 844
  • Turrets: +24/-24
Re: is blender the only software out there?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 01:04:17 pm »
when i was 8
You mean, when you will be 8  ???

Pazuzu

  • Posts: 987
  • Turrets: +50/-12
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 03:47:46 pm »
HOLY SHIT! how the hell do you use this software!?!?!?!?!! i mean come on!  hmmm... ummm do you need a 3 button mouse? or even a 2 button mouse? cos ATM im using a single button touch pad on a laptop... maybe why im having trouble?
Uh... Yeah, that could be a problem. You need a 3-button mouse for any decent 3D program, since the view navigation works like a video game, and having three buttons lets you work with that more easily.
Also, read some of this. If you're serious about learning Blender (it's a good investment; pro-level 3D programs like Maya work in the same way Blender does), that link will take you pretty far.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 03:50:25 pm by Pazuzu »

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

jm82792

  • Posts: 630
  • Turrets: +9/-34
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2011, 07:39:42 pm »
I was at one point at time stupid enough to use a touchpad on the laptop for modeling and the like with Maya.
Did that for a year. Get a $10 3 button(scroll,l,r and button for scroll) mouse or you'll be stunted in your learning.

Fox One

  • Posts: 19
  • Turrets: +6/-0
    • recursiveloop.oi-share.com
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 03:36:42 pm »
Hi there. You won't know me, because I don't post much around here, but here is some street cred.

First off, Sketchup is designed for producing models for visualization - how it looks at the end is all that's important. It is not a tool for creating working 3d game models, it just doesn't have the capacity or adaptability for it. If you want to work on this, you will need a serious 3d modeling program like Blender, 3ds Max or Maya.
Just to back this up, here's an example of a model made by someone else in Sketchup, which they brought to me as an .obj file which I imported into Blender:

Note especially the absolute mess near the right side of the image, and the cylinder near the middle. This model looks nice like this, but is absolutely horrendous from a usability point of view. I was able to recreate the model (with most of the detail intact) with less than half the polys of the original.

Anyway, the point is that Sketchup is not an appropriate tool for this kind of work. It can't handle the .md3 format that Tremulous uses, nor does it (to my knowledge) do model animations or UV mapping. You see, when it comes to producing game models, creating the mesh isn't even half the battle (it's sort of the easy part).

A quick word on the 'professional' 3d modeling programs - if you do a quick search for screenshots of 3ds Max and Maya, you'll notice that both have tool buttons around the edges of the modeling window; Blender does not do this. This makes these two programs more visually intuitive and therefore easier to learn quickly. In contrast, all of Blender's important modeling tools are bound to various keys, so the only way to learn them is through references and practice. However, it's very important to realize that in 3d modeling, all of the important work is done with the cursor! This means that in 3ds Max or Maya, if you need a tool to edit the mesh, you must stop what you're doing with the cursor, move the cursor out of the 3d window to select a tool, and then back again to use the tool. In Blender there are no such limitations, and you can simply choose and apply any function at will. The practical upshot of this is that you don't have to stop using the cursor in the 3d window, and so your work on the model proceeds much much faster. It's possible to build very complex meshes in Blender in a matter of minutes.
tl;dr - moving the mouse out of the workspace to get a tool is slow and bad, using the keyboard to access tools quickly is fast and good!

If you want to learn 3d modeling, you most certainly need a decent 3 button mouse (optical or laser, not a ball!). You need both the extra buttons (for moving around in 3d space and manipulating your model) and the pointer accuracy that a mouse provides. A touchpad will not cut it. If your laptop doesn't have a full-size keyboard, it's probably also worth investing in an external numpad as well, because in Blender this is used to precisely control your viewpoint.

I know that's a lot to read, but if you're still with me then I'd like to offer to help you more. I spent a long while learning to use Blender and then learning to use it in conjunction with Tremulous, and unfortunately a lot of the information is spread around or just generally hard to come by. If you're interested, I can be found on irc.freenode.org in either the #unvanquished or #knightsofreason channel (unvanquished has a couple other experienced modelers in it as well). I can get you started learning the basics of Blender, generating clean and efficient meshes, importing and working with Tremulous models, and then model animation, proper UV mapping, and drawing your own textures using the GIMP. I can also be found more readily on our forums at knightsofreason.net, but I find that a real-time discussion through IRC is much more useful.
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." ~John Milton, Areopagitica


Nux

  • Posts: 1778
  • Turrets: +258/-69
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 04:26:29 pm »
A quick word on the 'professional' 3d modeling programs - if you do a quick search for screenshots of 3ds Max and Maya, you'll notice that both have tool buttons around the edges of the modeling window; Blender does not do this. This makes these two programs more visually intuitive and therefore easier to learn quickly. In contrast, all of Blender's important modeling tools are bound to various keys, so the only way to learn them is through references and practice.

Not really that true for the latest 2.5 blender. I can see why you might not want to use 2.5 with it's UI overhaul (if you're set in your 2.4 ways) and lack of some features, but it's very much a viable option with a much improved interface.

Just thought I'd mention that. Everything else is fine and good.

Pazuzu

  • Posts: 987
  • Turrets: +50/-12
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 04:55:38 pm »
2.5 is epic in general, but it's still not final; it's still missing some 2.4 stuff like MD3 import. For now.

ok, can you give me the tool thingy app that can code?

jm82792

  • Posts: 630
  • Turrets: +9/-34
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 06:14:56 pm »
2.5 is epic compared to 2.49 in many ways.
I dislike the Python API change though :(

Fox One, I disagree with your lengthy statement regarding Blender.
Yes it's not totally up to Par to Maya or 3DMax but it's almost there.
2.5's new interface blows it's old one away.
It's much lighter(quick loading, low overhead etc) then Maya, I've personally used Maya for 2 years(there are many instances where I'd like to see something that Maya has in Blender) and I've never looked back after going to Blender.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 06:21:01 pm by jm82792 »

Fox One

  • Posts: 19
  • Turrets: +6/-0
    • recursiveloop.oi-share.com
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2011, 02:03:25 am »
I think what I said was misunderstood, or perhaps just not read all the way through. The point I was trying to make is that while Blender is more difficult to pick up quickly, in the long run it's a much better tool and well worth the extra effort. I friggin' love Blender and I don't think I'd use a 'professional' alternative even if I had it available.
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." ~John Milton, Areopagitica


jm82792

  • Posts: 630
  • Turrets: +9/-34
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2011, 05:59:55 am »
I think what I said was misunderstood, or perhaps just not read all the way through. The point I was trying to make is that while Blender is more difficult to pick up quickly, in the long run it's a much better tool and well worth the extra effort. I friggin' love Blender and I don't think I'd use a 'professional' alternative even if I had it available.
Okay sorry for my misunderstanding.
I totally agree with you.

cron

  • Donators
  • *
  • Posts: 197
  • Turrets: +22/-22
    • GrangerHub
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2011, 04:53:47 am »
Blender rocks! Yes, its interface seems a bit daunting and unintuitive at first, but it only seems that way, and is pretty easy to work with after using it for a while.

Watch the videos from Bits of Blender on YouTube if you're just getting started. The Noob-To-Pro guide on the Blender wiki is also useful as reference material, but sucks if you try to read it like a book.

I recommend learning on Blender 2.49, as the 2.5x series is still being developed, is sometimes buggy, and still lacks many features; although its interface is a bit prettier.

jm82792

  • Posts: 630
  • Turrets: +9/-34
Re: [RENAMED] Should I work on learning Blender?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2011, 05:33:29 am »
Blender rocks! Yes, its interface seems a bit daunting and unintuitive at first, but it only seems that way, and is pretty easy to work with after using it for a while.

Watch the videos from Bits of Blender on YouTube if you're just getting started. The Noob-To-Pro guide on the Blender wiki is also useful as reference material, but sucks if you try to read it like a book.

I recommend learning on Blender 2.49, as the 2.5x series is still being developed, is sometimes buggy, and still lacks many features; although its interface is a bit prettier.
Cron when they get blender 2.57(soon, currently it's 2.56) out it will be OUT of Beta :)
So GO with 2.5 :)

I remember 2.52, crap I got it to crash a ton.