Author Topic: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.  (Read 13812 times)

scrape

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Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« on: January 05, 2011, 12:01:31 am »
The Art of BasiHattery (Based on 1.2 changes, but most applies regardless)
(first draft, haven’t reviewed, was a stream of thought, I will probably revise later)
In light of the recent post asking for single key, to allow a basi to rotate around a player, or the
*basi is weak compared..* I figured, I would post my personal basi guide.

Most guides I have seen, approach the basi from a general tactics guide, mine, however
is the direct mechanics of the basilisk fight.

I’ll affectionally call it, Basi-ju-jitsu

All basi attacks can be broken down into 5 stages, the stages are:

  •    The Gap
  •    The Grab
  •    The Spin
  •    The Mount
  •    The Escape

The Gap
This is the effort to close the distance between the basilisk and the target, the target being
a tasty tasty human. There are two ways to approach and its based on initiative. The best
way to gain this is to be stealthy, minimal jumping (jump sound), and climb the walls, use
the edges of doors and hall turns, to gain surprise. However, since stage two humans have
a perfect always on radar, this becomes increasingly difficult, if not impossible. So, most
encounter you will have are against an aware or keenly alert human.

The trick or tactic to gaining a safe grab, on an aware human is through movement feinting.
This is done by allowing the human to see where you are going to force him to commit to facing
one direction. (I personally use doorways, I allow the players to just enter the room, and I run
into the hall or room the came from, many times they will scan the room, not aware I left to
grab them from behind.) This is the moment, you or I may fail and die, its difficult against
experienced players. The spilt second you see him commit, thats when you move to stage two, The Grab.

The Grab
The Grab is just that, you face the human to trigger the grab, its like the dretch bite, always
firing, and will hit if in range and you are facing the target. At this point, don’t worry about
grabbing the *right spot*, grab anywhere, at any angle. You will find grabbing at the foot level
to be easier since it uses the max range of the grab. (Imagine as you look up, the range shortens
due to it forming an arc). It is also possible to grab, two players, if they are close enough to
each other. This needs to be done as quickly as possible, basis, despite their regen, are quite
frail, and everything will kill you rather fast. Once you have any sort of grab on, its time to
move unto, The Spin.

The Spin
The Spin is basically what we referred to in the olden days of FPS play as circle strafing, Its
something that must be practiced by itself.  Personally I load a local server and spin some
time circle a barricade, until I reach a state that I can make two 360 passes in opposite directions.
There are many guides and old guides on the net regarding this topic, and it applies to many
games as well. Basically you rotate your mouse aiming view while strafing, in order to keep
the target in front of you, whilst circling it. However in Tremulous, the basilisk goal is to reach
a position behind the human, directly or somewhere no greater then 65 degrees from left or
right of directly behind. Many times you will lose grab, jet using humans, high sens spinning
maniacs, panicking in your grab. Lucifer cannons shooting their feet. When this happens,
forget about spinning, return back to stage two, The Grab. Sometimes and once you are comfortable,
The Grab and Spin will be one motion, but until then, trying to think of both at the same time will
lead to lots of dying.

Another thing unique to tremulous is spinning in or with a wall climb.
Its good for tight halls (atcs), doorways, vent with narrow openings. It is probably the toughest
thing to master, since the grab, and wallwalk oddly affect your view. I seen others state this
is “how you play the basi” while it may in fact be someone’s style, you will rarely find a map
that allows this with any consistency.

However one tactic is worth mentioning here, using the wall to kill a battlesuit. Since the
battle suit is able to turn in your grab, but cannot move, you can grab one near a wall, and
circle on the wall, in an arc, while bitting the battlesuits head. Rarely with this kill a player
with any experience fighting basilisk, but sometimes you do, and noobsuits nearly every time.
This is just the same tactic you use all the time on a successful dretch. And now its time for...

The Mount
This is where you make sweet sweet love to the humans skull or take measurements for the hat:P
This is jumping up so your basilisk is sitting on top of the humans head. While its not 100%
required to kill a human (its is however to kill a Lucifer cannon, more on that later) it ensures
all of your swipes hit the head (head does more damage) and helps prevent the human from
wriggling free. You can only hop up to the head if you are on level ground, or on the high
ground portion of an incline. Also, there cannot be low hanging map structures like pipes or
other confining elements. Sometimes, you are facing a very experienced player, and a loss
of grab during a mount, can just be instant death. So I advise in those situations, to just kill
from the ground looking up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few points to make here in regard to special situations:
If you are fighting 2 players at once, mount or spin, into a position that places the current
target between you and the second human. It will help him wait, since he will bleed the human,
either helping you kill or just waiting for fear of teamkilling. Many times, players will let you
kill the other player, since they are more concerned about tking, than rescue.

Against Lufcifer Cannons:
Always mount first, most will aim for there feet, charge and fire, assuming you are on the
ground. When they are about to fire,hop up in the air while keeping the grab aim on the head.
Most of the time you will be completely unharmed by the Lucifer cannon splash. If your
target has learned your tactic, they will just overcharge the cannon to kill you, this is when
you return to the floor, behind the target, to use it as a shield against the overcharge.

Against Battlesuits:
Batllesuits, of any version are almost always certain death, if delaying them is needed, harass
them until they kill you. Reasonable trade of 1 evo to poison, delay and deplete ammo of a
battlesuit. (Lucisuits, you can nearly run them out of ammo, making them return to base)

Advanced Basilisk Gas:
While the using it for the view meddling is worthless, since many players it does not seem
to affect for whatever reason, the movement run debuff is valuable. It great to use to slow a
fleeing human, a dodge spammer, or for The Escape.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Escape
While not always needed, if facing lone humans, but its something to practice and do on a
regular basis to take advantage of the basilisks regen ability. Two types of escapes, one is
after a fight to fight a ceiling, safe location to quickly regen, the other is when you are faced
with 2+ players, or battlesuits. When stage two, I use basi gas prior to attempting to escape.
It will at the very least slow them so you can beat unlagged death rounding a corner. Being
able to escape is based on pre planning the route, with prior map knowledge. You don’t have
enough health to decide this during a fight, so you need a planned escape route for various
map locations. The locations will change based on human building locations. The best way
to practice this is, find a human(s), poison swipe some and then attempt to get away cleanly,
regen and return, without the goal of killing. This can be just as effective, and is a de-facto mara
tactic.

As you see, playing a basilisk as if it was a dragoon or other alien will just fail. The Basilisk
is the Tremulous version of a rogue(thief/assassin class) and it played much like you would, in an
mmo. Wait, stalk, pounce, kill, hide  =D
(eof)

Celestial_Rage

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 04:23:34 am »
Very well put.
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" ~Mark Twain

A Spork

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 06:12:29 am »
One thing:
Screaming "DON'T SHOOT FRIEND :basilisk:! FRIEND :basilisk: ONLY WANTS TO GIVE HUGS AND BE YOUR HAT!!!" will assure your survival if being chased by humans*
(ymmv)
Don't shoot friend :basilisk:! Friend :basilisk: only wants to give you hugz and to be your hat

Proud Member of the S.O.B.F.O.B.S.A.D: The Society Of Basilisks For Other Basilisks Safety and Dominance
:basilisk:    :basilisk:    :basilisk:

jm82792

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 07:56:17 am »
Hahahah!

Qrntz

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 10:53:54 am »
Whoa, good. Thanks, that was well done.
Though where are my favourite tricks? Like, you know, Crouching Panda, Hidden Dragon?
I hope that to be continued though.

You make up Qrntz, u always angry, just calmdown. :police:
I am stupid idiot who dares to open mouth and start debating

kharnov

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 05:19:00 pm »
Oh wow. The :basilisk: is my weakest form, so I'll be using your advice pretty often.

I'm not sure what to contribute, except that you typo'd the Lucifer Cannon. :P

CorSair

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2011, 10:49:16 am »
Nice work scrape!

A very good basic and advanced instructions writ. Should help those who ain't not much specialized in fighting as a bassy.

You got guide how to fight against jettards? Otherwise perfect guide for maintaining control of basilisk.

Zordos

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 01:04:36 am »
Anyone have any demos of these basi tactics at work?

-[abaddon]-

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 06:32:46 am »
Yes please! We definitely need  :basilisk: demos!

Dracone

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 12:07:26 pm »
I'll put some up in this thread sometime. Can't say it will be specific though, more just playing with basi and you keeping the tactics in mind.
Quote from: St. Anger
Tip 4 baslick guiz: Make sure you get near them bc u can stiky them i think its a bug lolz. but dont tell 2 many ppl shh.
Quote from: dobruiyyk
It's possible, your descendant will never see the sun because our species is gonna extinct in nearest future. So you better unstick from your computer and find a girl to make a child with!

zybork

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 11:06:02 pm »
Anyone have any demos of these basi tactics at work?

Thank you Dracone  :)

I've just made a li'l basilisk-video, no tutorial, just one of my ab-so-fraggin-lootaley serious gameplay vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sEKPRyfbg

I figured that  :basilisk:  is actually damn powerful. Almost at the end of the video, you will see me taking down a pulser, and damn, a good one as well. That split second he did not pay attention to his environment was the split second I got him. He actually hit me a few times with the pulserifle, but in the end: 710 of his credits (910 if he should have happened to have a grenade) shot to hell by a 2evo-alien. That's what I call a bargain!

So, thx for your guide, it actually helped me, I shall change my basi-rating from **--- to ***-- 8)

PS: Gas will help a lot if you can't help yourself but attack a human from the front! Blow a cloud of gas in his face, then he is disoriented or at least slowed down, giving you a chance for a second attack. Gas, although I guess it takes some skill to master it, can be extremely useful.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 11:07:35 pm by zybork »
I have retired from Tremulous. Definetely. If you play a game just because it has become a habit, but u'r only feeling like a kindergarten teacher - well, maybe I am just getting too old (hell, I was a teenager when DukeNukem3D was *new*) - it's probably not a bad idea to just let it be. And I do.

Don't take this personally. Have fun, guys.

Tremulant

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 11:18:50 pm »
Well, that was interminably long and demonstrated an extremely clumsy basi that was lucky to be alive... Did you really have to run everything in slow-mo _and_ do replays of wholly unremarkable kills?
my knees by my face and my ass is being hammered

zybork

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 01:55:18 pm »
Yes, because these "unremarkable" kills are imo the usual case, and especially newbs will realize a few things from this video, like

• you can hit the head from standing on the ground
• you can survive a few hits even from a stronger weapon and still bring your foe down
• It is stressed that humans can't really move when grabbed
• Lone runners are basically dead when confronted with a basi
• You can confront an enemy from the front
• It shows healing, a very important quality of the basi only too many people don't recognize

That it seems (and probably is) clumsy to you, no question about it, I take it you have far better skills than me, but for a newb, I guess, they will watch this, and say, ah!, that's how it works!

Before Dracones hints, I never even barely got that class to work for me, now I shall correct my own skill rating concerning basi from "*, noob, only lucky strikes hit" to "***, average, not really bad, but not really good either" 8)

Of course, you could always spec some leet players who slip-through-the-wall-and-take-an-entire-battle-group-on-their-own (and in fact, I did before making this vid), but that's of no use somebody who is almost unfamiliar to that class. If you don't know how to drive a car, a video about a stunt-driver won't do you any good, but one where someone simply parallel parks will do.

So this vid does have some value.

In one thing, however, you are wrong, I did not "barely" survive, I always was on the safe side, except the pulser, but then, I went hat, and again, I was.
I have retired from Tremulous. Definetely. If you play a game just because it has become a habit, but u'r only feeling like a kindergarten teacher - well, maybe I am just getting too old (hell, I was a teenager when DukeNukem3D was *new*) - it's probably not a bad idea to just let it be. And I do.

Don't take this personally. Have fun, guys.

Tremulant

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 04:16:56 pm »
My basi's pretty poor, and i die at the hands of basis on a regular basis, it's just that your chosen prey appears to be rather weak to begin with(yes, picking your battles is important but you're supposed to be showing what's possible here), was the pulse rifle seriously your most capable opponent? You're making the basi appear far stronger than it really is, it might have been interesting had you encountered a jetpack or at least more helmeted humans.
Anyway, prattle about the value of your video aside, is all the slow-mo really necessary?
my knees by my face and my ass is being hammered

Dracone

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2011, 04:43:41 pm »
Dracones hints

I don't know what you're talking about. I've yet to post demos here. Suppose I should do that.

If you're talking about the OP, it's scrape with his guide. Most of the shit anyone can think up for basi is all legitimate, but you'll most likely see major differences with my basi.
Quote from: St. Anger
Tip 4 baslick guiz: Make sure you get near them bc u can stiky them i think its a bug lolz. but dont tell 2 many ppl shh.
Quote from: dobruiyyk
It's possible, your descendant will never see the sun because our species is gonna extinct in nearest future. So you better unstick from your computer and find a girl to make a child with!

zybork

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2011, 05:28:11 pm »
Anyway, prattle about the value of your video aside, is all the slow-mo really necessary?

Hm, only the first part is slow mo, the instance Transit is left, it changes back to normal speed, besides, I just find the gassing-effect and also how aliens move much more interesting in reduced playback speed.

Dracone: I'm looking forward to it :)
I have retired from Tremulous. Definetely. If you play a game just because it has become a habit, but u'r only feeling like a kindergarten teacher - well, maybe I am just getting too old (hell, I was a teenager when DukeNukem3D was *new*) - it's probably not a bad idea to just let it be. And I do.

Don't take this personally. Have fun, guys.

GeneralScott

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2011, 06:06:45 pm »
I find that gas is good when sneaking up on MDs, because it gets their aim off enough when they have to spin AND shoot. You can circle around fast and they'll miss.

scrape

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Re: Basi-ju-jitsu - my personal basi fight mechanics guide.
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2011, 06:36:26 pm »
Whoa this thread went from happy basi to :basilisk: not so happy.
On a personal note, I only played basi for the first couple years of trem. On occasion, I
would evo to mara, sometimes tyrant. Only in the last year or so have I bothered to play a
dragoon(a shitty one still). I didn't post in effort to claim any basi mastery skill, but to let out the personal
notes I made from breaking the fight down to tasks. My personal basi skill remains at Ok-slightly-
better-than-average
, thats it. Over the years, players have in step improved their anti-basi defense.

Everyone has their own style, their own degree of suicidal basi (I die to save a goon or rant, gives
the enemy less credits) This is why the "mechanics guide" these motions end up being the core, regardless of
personal tactics. The beauty of game that allow a degree of skill, there is no right 'tactic' just
one that fits your style.

Demos are great, they give you a working idea of what the class can do in capable hands, such as Dracone's
but are really hard to just emulate. It takes tons of dying to find your own style.
(Gas is one example, some say it worthless, others utilize it. I don't use it for aim muddling, but for snare)

Regardless, this is awesome to see this many people interested in the basilisk. When I started,
I was constantly told to "just save evos and evo to goon, lisk is gimp", that was never true in 1.1.