Defending = Bad?

[Top_Cat]

Hi, Im new to Tremulous..and yes that means i am the dreaded newbie, of which the bain of your existence (apparently) lies. Basically whenever I enter a game, I always defend, always. I will walk the perimeter, while keeping visual of the base and (usually clever hidden) turrets. And if chance arises, I'll try and off a few dretches/Basilisks or whatever else might come my way. Why do people from my own team shoot me when I'm standing near the base, waiting for something to fight off? Or just standing right in front of looking directly at me?...as if waiting for me to do something?
I am a newbie...but I'm not a noob. I've read the manual and have looked through SEVERAL old posts to do with "griefers/noobs/base building (which i did once, and will never do again)/and this "camping" thing (which seems to be used in a negative light alot.) All of which I checked with the SEARCH button.

So..whats the deal? Am i just not supposed to defend at S2?


BTW this only refers to the human side, Theres no need to stay at base as an alien and defend....except for protection for Grangers and just general kicking human ass.[/i]

[KittenConquistador]

If you are a newbie, defending at S1 is agood option, but at s2 humans should attack the alien base and get them on the run.  As long as you can get them on the run you will be fine at s3.  You have to hit them hard and force them on the defensive to have a chance when s3 rolls around.

At s2 you should get a plasma rifle if you can aford it and attack the alien base.  go for eggs, overmind, and grangers in that order.

At s2 1 or 2 defenders is the most you should have, just to kill any adv. maras tryin to kill base.  Everyone else should go on offense.

[Aninhumer]

If you stand completely still people will think you've timed out.
And no way should they be shooting at you even if you are doing something stupid.

EDIT: BTW You should try to get out of the base a little, you should stop if you get killed repeatedly though.

Also I believe it's spelled "bane"  :wink:

[yetshi]

aliens hate camping becasue it doesnt give them a chance to pick off humans and get evo.

[Howitzer]

And most knowing players hate camping because they know that humans will just feed the aliens slowly to S3 and the tyrants will come destroy their base.

[KorJax]

Yes, you should defend, but only when its nessicary.  If your boxed in your base by aliens or they are currently setting up an attack, its wise to defend.

But, its also wise to attack.  The best defense is a good offense.  There is nothing wrong with defending though just to learn the ropes of the game however.

But yeah, the main reason why many expereinced humans dont like it when thier human team camps the base, is because it slowly ends up feeding the alien team if they have your team boxed in.  That is why its important for the humans to remeber to be offensive, because at S3 the alien team is extremely formidable to fight and defend against, the only real way to stop an S3 alien team is to hold out against attacks long enough for them too loose all thier S3 evo, and start attacking them.  Or just attack them hard so they have to force themselves to defend, and hope to cripple the OM making it so they cannot evolve into an S3 evo.

[Stakhanov]

Welcome to the most elitist , complexed and schizophrenic gaming community ever

People will yell at you for camping , and if you get killed out of your base they will yell at you for feeding ; if you build to avoid both , they will yell at you for your less than optimal building plan. It is forbidden to be a newbie without any inate skills at Tremulous. There are even plugins basically designed to kick newbies.

There is nothing you can do about it ; and if you ignore the complaints and keep playing as is , admins may ban you for being a noob.

Only your experience and skills building up will earn your redemption. Being a newbie in Tremulous is a curse.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Welcome to the most elitist , complexed and schizophrenic gaming community ever

People will yell at you for camping , and if you get killed out of your base they will yell at you for feeding ; if you build to avoid both , they will yell at you for your less than optimal building plan. It is forbidden to be a newbie without any inate skills at Tremulous. There are even plugins basically designed to kick newbies.

There is nothing you can do about it ; and if you ignore the complaints and keep playing as is , admins may ban you for being a noob.

Only your experience and skills building up will earn your redemption. Being a newbie in Tremulous is a curse.

aye kapitan stroganov

[Top_Cat]

Ok i get it. So defend at S1 for the most part (no point in feeding the dretches)...defend if there is nobody else defending at S2 (but for the most part try and push the aliens back)..and defend if there is an alien onslaught at S3? OK now im a little more comfortable. Thanks alot.

PS thanks for the little spelling tip lol.

PPS The game rocks, one of the best FPS games I've ever played.

[Karvajalka]

I don't see the reason why to defend from dretches  , they are great gun fodder. Just watch you back :wink:

[Teiman]

The tremulous userbase is very friendly. I always get good feedbacks, even with my crappy skill.

[NeXe]

Well, somewhere i dig up the statment that "Best Deffence is your ATACK" and i really find that true..From all games i played (playing tremulous for a month now) Aliens won 85% of time. Humans camp And after 30 min. all aliens become Tyrants and kick Human buts  D: .But hell, thats life..So Deffending-bad?-Hell yeah!  :evil:  

[chompers]

Another perspective on this is if you have some idea what you're doing and play aggressively as human, you are far more likely to win the match. The first few kills are in some ways the most important kills of the game. Say two humans rush out and kill two dretches each without dying. Those two now have enough cash for light armour and lasgun which is enough to raid the alien base, and the aliens have no evo, already they start to get stuck in the cycle of being outclassed by the human equipment, and you can push that advantage to the end of the game. Sure a dretch can do 94 points with a headshot, but a dretch dies in 1 shot from a shotgun, or 3 from a lasgun.

Attacking the overmind early means that dretches will rush to defend, leaving your builders alone to build in peace  - and as long as you keep killing dretches, they can't evolve.

In this situation, even if you DON'T know what you are doing, if you see a human out getting lots of kills, after they die or come back for ammo, GO WITH THEM on their next run, because if you are not building while they are keeping the aliens busy, you contribute nothing by camping in the human base. Sure you will probably die at some stage, but you will probably have enough cash that you can buy better gear and kill many more dretches than the kills you give away.

Apart from being more likely to win, it is also a lot more fun to play this way. There is nothing like running out of ammo half way back from a base raid as youre chased across the map by a marauder and a swarm of dretches, then just scraping into the base with no stamina, no ammo, no helmet and 2HP as the turrets open fire. For me that is what playing as human is all about.

So yeah, I'm not saying you should never camp, there are times you have to, as this thread points out. But the start of the game isnt always one of those times, and it does seem stupid to camp in the times when there is no reason for it.

[chompers]

Something else about camping. Learn the sounds that badly wounded aliens make. If a goon, marauder, or even tyrant runs away screaming after chewing on your turrets for a while, chase it down and kill it. Over short distances, sprinting humans can outrun most aliens depending on the map layout.

Of course, many times the aliens are working together, so that goon will run past three dretches hiding around the corner waiting to ambush you. If you suspect this, still chase the goon but take a lasgun, or in s2 a flamethrower. Once youre five steps around the corner from your turrets, turn around and lay waste to the three dretches sneaking up behind you. Dretches are worth way more per hit point than anything in the game, and when you're trying to get to stage 3, any kill will do.

[Top_Cat]

OK great stuff. Thanks, I've only been playing for 3-4 days but everyone has to start out as a newbie. Im learning though.

Thanks for the tips.

[next_ghost]

If you suspect this, still chase the goon but take a lasgun, or in s2 a flamethrower.

Repeat after me: I WILL NOT CHASE WOUNDED ALIENS WITH SHORT-RANGE SPAMGUNS! I WILL NOT CHASE WOUNDED ALIENS WITH SHORT-RANGE SPAMGUNS! I WILL NOT ...

Why? Because you will only block your temmates who have long range weapons and they won't get a clean shot. If that happens, you've just saved that aliens' ass. If you want to kill lurking dretches instead of the retreating alien, cover others' back and stay out of their line of fire.

And what are short-range spamguns?
Painsaw, Shotgun, Pulse Rifle, Flame Thrower, Lucifer Cannon

What to chase wounded aliens with?
Rifle, Lasgun, Massdriver, Chaingun

[Seffylight]

Well, somewhere i dig up the statment that "Best Deffence is your ATACK" and i really find that true..

Actually, I think the more popular quote is "The best offense is a good defense" -- though that doesn't really fit in Tremulous, even if a good defense is an integral part of the game.

[Teiman]

How to win as human:
 - S2, aliens still S1, buy lasergun and jet. Escape the human base undetected, run to the alien base. Kill all egges, and search for a granger.
Most bases have 3 eggs and 1 granger. Easy to kill.
 If you can have a battery, you can kill all 4 eggs, 2 grangers and the overmind

Good aliens players will always build a backup egg. But even good players can lost this egg (detected and killed by a rogue human exploring the map). This mean the human team can win with 3 easy eggkills, in less than (maybe) 20 seconds by a single human with lasgun.

Yet another option is to rush the alien base with painshaw and grenade. Before you die drop the grenade. For aliens defending and grangers is tottally annoying a guy rushing with painshaw.

The last option is to lucyspawn ATCS as battlesuit with lucy. The problem here is ...If aliens ever get enough evos, you will need to fight against tyrants, so the human base will need 90% the team to defend, and attack will be dificult.

[reinie]

u should camp when aliens are rushing so u get reinforcments soon and when u reach S2 u can go and rush the aliens who only have S1 the important thing is dont die untill s2 caus dretches cant do anything against jetpacks but dragoons and maurader can i had lots of matches that were done in few minutes with humans just rush there base with lasgun and baterry and u can destroy it completly in matter of secs

[ZEL]

read my S1 Humans Guide at www.tremulous.info.

If you follow my advice and people are still yelling at you, its because they're dicks or idiots.

It doesnt sound to me like youre doing anything wrong.  I love it when my noobs defend the base instead of rushing out to feed, and its great that your're asking for advice.  The worst thing you can do is to try to figure out what to do while ignoring your teamates, but listening to every dumbass doesnt always help either.

Sadly it seems that while for the most part the tremulous community is a great group, there are more than a few players out there who just arent very nice.  Interestingly enough most of these dick players suck anyway, so look forward to kicking their asses in the future  

[Mopatop]

defendin is good if u a human but aliens should usually attack

[Undeference]

Basically, getting kills is good, whether that means camping for a while or going agro. But don't camp if you don't have to, whether you are human or alien. If you do, your opponents will pummel the snot out of your base with you in it.

If a goon, marauder, or even tyrant runs away screaming after chewing on your turrets for a while, chase it down and kill it.
Of course, many times the aliens are working together, so that goon will run past three dretches hiding around the corner waiting to ambush you.

(Or, often it's a tyrant sitting there.) If there is 1 tyrant there, you probably don't have a chance. If there are more, they may get in each other's way. It's always funny seeing "so and so was killed by teammate so and so" when you run past a group of tyrants with no armor.

[Nux]

I could give you REAL advice, but that would be teaching you how to be me.. which we don't want.

So what I will say is play alot and find out what works for you. Be as polite as you've been and take the odd rant from the odd crazy person like a man. I'm pressuming you are a man. Statistically speaking you should be.

[Top_Cat]

I could give you REAL advice, but that would be teaching you how to be me.. which we don't want.

So what I will say is play alot and find out what works for you. Be as polite as you've been and take the odd rant from the odd crazy person like a man. I'm pressuming you are a man. Statistically speaking you should be.

i am indeed a man..well more of a man-child really. ANYHOO, i haven't gotten yelled at too many times.

[THEAPPROACH]

Welcome to the most elitist , complexed and schizophrenic gaming community ever :P

People will yell at you for camping , and if you get killed out of your base they will yell at you for feeding ; if you build to avoid both , they will yell at you for your less than optimal building plan. It is forbidden to be a newbie without any inate skills at Tremulous. There are even plugins basically designed to kick newbies.

There is nothing you can do about it ; and if you ignore the complaints and keep playing as is , admins may ban you for being a noob.

Only your experience and skills building up will earn your redemption. Being a newbie in Tremulous is a curse.

The community is not that tough, but i am no expert player in other games, but can mostly build a good base, and get on or near the top of the kill list, without too much trouble. People feeding and screwing up a base move is part of the challenge and makes it fun! :wink:

[DIRKDIGGLER]

Another perspective on this is if you have some idea what you're doing and play aggressively as human, you are far more likely to win the match. The first few kills are in some ways the most important kills of the game. Say two humans rush out and kill two dretches each without dying. Those two now have enough cash for light armour and lasgun which is enough to raid the alien base, and the aliens have no evo, already they start to get stuck in the cycle of being outclassed by the human equipment, and you can push that advantage to the end of the game. Sure a dretch can do 94 points with a headshot, but a dretch dies in 1 shot from a shotgun, or 3 from a lasgun.

Attacking the overmind early means that dretches will rush to defend, leaving your builders alone to build in peace  - and as long as you keep killing dretches, they can't evolve.

In this situation, even if you DON'T know what you are doing, if you see a human out getting lots of kills, after they die or come back for ammo, GO WITH THEM on their next run, because if you are not building while they are keeping the aliens busy, you contribute nothing by camping in the human base. Sure you will probably die at some stage, but you will probably have enough cash that you can buy better gear and kill many more dretches than the kills you give away.

Apart from being more likely to win, it is also a lot more fun to play this way. There is nothing like running out of ammo half way back from a base raid as youre chased across the map by a marauder and a swarm of dretches, then just scraping into the base with no stamina, no ammo, no helmet and 2HP as the turrets open fire. For me that is what playing as human is all about.

So yeah, I'm not saying you should never camp, there are times you have to, as this thread points out. But the start of the game isnt always one of those times, and it does seem stupid to camp in the times when there is no reason for it.

This post sums it up for me. Awesome.

[ZEL]

the server you choose to play on helps as well.  As a new player its usually better to play with other new players, so try to find a server without dominating players.  

Though from time to time good players go slumming :wink:

[Nux]

...even if you DON'T know what you are doing, if you see a human out getting lots of kills, after they die or come back for ammo, GO WITH THEM on their next run...

This post sums it up for me. Awesome.

Yup. It also gives the new guy a chance to learn something about attacking. He'll probably get killed alot in the learning process, but that's what learning's about. Death! No.. wait.

The problem is, people who really care about winning too much will get angry because they are 'feeding'.

I've used the word myself, but now I think about it, all they're actually doing is learning.

They get shouted at. They don't understand what they've done wrong (what's this "feeding"?!?). That's why it's good to see that some people help these guys out and give them tips, instead of shouting frustrations at them.

[ZEL]

Well following a dominating player can be a real problem on FF servers.  If you kill a fully decked out player by accident while hes pwning he'll be pissed.
Being shot in the back by a noob with a shotgun really sucks.  Especially if you're making your crazy retreat with 10hp and no ammo.

But ya, though noobs generally dont even know about these forums, much less read what we say, i repeatedly recommend watching what good players do.

[strongsad]

Different servers have different personalities and tolerances, I think.  Find one where the players are willing to help (or at least ignore) a new guy.