S3 Dretch improvement?

[Top_Cat]

At S3 a Dretch can pretty easily get iced by a hummie or turret..but what if Dretches could jump onto the backs of Tyrants/Dragoons/ADV Dragoons and catch a free ride to the hummie base? Any hummie that leaves the base at S3 is usually a good player with a good weapon and could probably take out a dretch easily. So what if that dretch was riding on a Tyrant? it could get to the jump off, whenever neccessary and attack the hummie attacking the tyrant/dragoon etc. AND if the Tyrant makes it into the base, the Dretch can jump off without fear of getting wasted byt a turret and can help with the hummie base destruction...thoughts?

This could be only available at S3 which is when it would be most needed..and it wouldnt exactly unbalance the teams.

Flame shout and scream at me if you wish.

[Caveman]

I think I saw this tactic today already. It just requires some teamwork .)

[^Black]

I for one like the
upgrade for the dratch in Gloom. Costing one evo, you can go 90 percent transparent...wicked cool.

[Shaydee]

I do not think that a dretch-tweak makes much sense. "Naked" humans, for example, are very weak as well.
On some maps I've noticed that there is often a location where the "weak" players meet. Something that people would call "noob hill" in other games. For example, ATCS: both teams usually focus on one path of attack... either the tunnel, or the open area. And if you go the way that the advanced players do not choose to go, then you will most likely meet weak enemy players. It's almost as if players with a lot of credits play against players with a lot of credits, while players with low credits play against players with low credits. In my experience this works pretty well in public games. I don't know how clan-wars might be looking like, cos in those one should assume that all participating players are kind of "smart". But for now, I am quite happy with the balance, no matter if I am a naked human, or a little dretch.

P.S.: And anyways, what could a dretch (even if charged with a booster) do to an enemy base ? Nibble the reactor ? Good luck!

[DIGI_Byte]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

[Top_Cat]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

maybe an ADV dretch should be available.

[[db@]Megabite]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

Stop thinking, aliens are already more powerful than humans: http://www.tremulous.net/balance/Overall.png

[Teiman]

I think aliens have more appeal to vet players. And humans have better appeal to newbie players and snipers. So this may invalance the game to aliens. What is need its some "spice" to make playing human more fun. Actually is somewhat dull.

I think a fun change can be to make humans killed by dretch explode in a gass cloud. Even add a 3 seconds poison effect to dretch bytes. Also killed dretch sould bounce, because dretchs sould be something small and fun to kill. ETc.. more and more to make playing as human more fun and vet-friendly.
Ricochet? whatever that vet's can use with skill to kill more eficiently.

[Lava Croft]

Dretchin' as S3 is fairly easy. The chances of the entire H team wearing BattleSuits is fairly slim, so hang out and wait for a light- or unarmored Human to come around. And they will.

[Howitzer]

Megabite"]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

Stop thinking, aliens are already more powerful than humans: http://www.tremulous.net/balance/Overall.png

I thought they said Tremulous was balanced?
And i will keep saying this: aliens have more skill overall because of the players behind them.

[Rippy]

Megabite"]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

Stop thinking, aliens are already more powerful than humans: http://www.tremulous.net/balance/Overall.png

If I'm reading that graph right, aliens have about a 10% higher chance of winning than humans do, at the 2 player mark. By 50 players, aliens have around a 25% higher chance of winning.

That could easily be due to the fact that good players tend to play aliens more. Or that aliens tend to be a little easier to learn/play since accuracy isn't much of an issue. Another interesting thing to notice is that there are nearly twice as many alien players recorded than human players. Not quite sure what that means, though.. do alien players quit more often, to get replaced by new ones or something? o_O

Anyway, I think an s3 improvement for dretches would be nice, but only if there was a comparable upgrade to rifling humans. Maybe dretch hp could be improved to 35 or 40 at s3 (advanced dretch), while all s3 humans spawn with free light armour? What the weak players need in s3 isn't an attack, they need a means to stay alive a little longer in order to get those kills. A little hp boost (not sure how much dretch hp is equivalent to light armour) would be in order, imo.

And yes, even dretches can get kills in s3. The difference is, they have to wait forever in order to find a weak human to pick on. Not very fun. An hp boost would make it easier to get around those tougher humans (without making them strong enough to actually attack the tough humans) to find the weak ones and get some EP.

[ZEL]

well my issue is that its more difficult to play aliens with a 150 or greater ping than it is to play as humans.  A lagging alien player is pretty screwed when it takes your dretch 10 extra seconds sitting on an unhelmeted human to kill him.   A charging tyrant that never seems to hit people backing away?  Ya, its not just cause you've got magic shoes mr. human.  

Marauders simply cant get hits or kills bouncing around with a 200 ping, and a goon will miss out on headchomps 75% of the time.

Humans on the other hand can deal with a little lag, because if you fire a pulse rifle its ok if its only the second shot that hits the alien; etc.

[Rippy]

well my issue is that its more difficult to play aliens with a 150 or greater ping than it is to play as humans.  A lagging alien player is pretty screwed when it takes your dretch 10 extra seconds sitting on an unhelmeted human to kill him.   A charging tyrant that never seems to hit people backing away?  Ya, its not just cause you've got magic shoes mr. human.  

Marauders simply cant get hits or kills bouncing around with a 200 ping, and a goon will miss out on headchomps 75% of the time.

Humans on the other hand can deal with a little lag, because if you fire a pulse rifle its ok if its only the second shot that hits the alien; etc.

I disagree: it depends on the surroundings. In a tight hallway, humans will come out on top because they only need to shoot in one direction, and their bullets usually do more damage than the bites they receive. In large, open areas, however, a lagging human can't hope to hit an evasive alien with his weapon (short of a flamer). It may take longer, but with room to maneuver, the lagging alien has an easier time in an open space.

This is all in my experience only. I've played on both sides on laggy servers, and that's how things have turned out for me.

[[db@]Megabite]

The alien advantage is mainly due to human dependence on timing and teamplay whereas aliens can easier wreak havoc alone or in relatively uncoordinated packs. The fact that many/most experienced players prefer aliens and newbies usually stick to humans makes this effect even stronger.

I guess with evenly skilled teams with good communication (teamspeak or the like) tremulous is theoretically very well balanced. Human lack of communication on public servers pushes statistics is this direction.

Danny

[Lava Croft]

In fact, the Humans are even better than the Aliens, since properly teamplaying Humans are unstoppable.

[Teiman]

Another interesting thing to notice is that there are nearly twice as many alien players recorded than human players. Not quite sure what that means, though.. do alien players quit more often, to get replaced by new ones or something? o_O

After 3 alien victorys in a row.  You enter Transit. Then everybody and my dog want to play as alien. Only some people play alien. But the join algorithm force equal number of players, so only poor souls join human ..then.

Is a idea, maybe wrong.

[Captain Ventris]

Another interesting thing to notice is that there are nearly twice as many alien players recorded than human players. Not quite sure what that means, though.. do alien players quit more often, to get replaced by new ones or something? o_O

After 3 alien victorys in a row.  You enter Transit. Then everybody and my dog want to play as alien. Only some people play alien. But the join algorithm force equal number of players, so only poor souls join human ..then.

Is a idea, maybe wrong.

Oh, so it's because of your dog...

[Rippy]

Another interesting thing to notice is that there are nearly twice as many alien players recorded than human players. Not quite sure what that means, though.. do alien players quit more often, to get replaced by new ones or something? o_O

After 3 alien victorys in a row.  You enter Transit. Then everybody and my dog want to play as alien. Only some people play alien. But the join algorithm force equal number of players, so only poor souls join human ..then.

Is a idea, maybe wrong.

Oh, so it's because of your dog...

Silly people, always blaming the dog.

Anyway, megabite brings up a good point: aliens don't need the teamwork that humans need. Which is why something like a cloak would give humans a chance to go rogue like aliens can.

[rasz_pl]

Megabite"]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

Stop thinking, aliens are already more powerful than humans: http://www.tremulous.net/balance/Overall.png

ok, im a programmer (sort of) and I dont get that graph
aliens 1.0 humans 0.0? WTF does that mean?
no FF on, FF off, Buildings FF, Buildings on FF off, map, time, SDtime ... this graph sucks just as much as Paris does.

[Rippy]

Megabite"]

actually i think the stats of a dretch should improve slightly at S3

Stop thinking, aliens are already more powerful than humans: http://www.tremulous.net/balance/Overall.png

ok, im a programmer (sort of) and I dont get that graph
aliens 1.0 humans 0.0? WTF does that mean?
no FF on, FF off, Buildings FF, Buildings on FF off, map, time, SDtime ... this graph sucks just as much as Paris does.

First off, I don't see the relation between programming and graph reading. Second, it's really not that hard: it's total of points (alien win = 1 point, human win = 0 points) divided by the # of games played. Then the graph represents how that result changes depending on how many players are participating. Doesn't take an expert to figure that out..

[kozak6]

I think that aliens have more victories because the humans tend to camp or get boxed in until SD, which is then finished as the human defenses are quickly destroyed.

[[db@]Megabite]

I think that aliens have more victories because the humans tend to camp or get boxed in until SD, which is then finished as the human defenses are quickly destroyed.

Just what I said - lack of timing and teamplay. If some humans are able to group they are able to break through and go egg-hunting. Aliens S3 / SD is far too late for hope...

Danny