Setlevel

[ArchPyro]

Hello, I have recently reset my computer. I would like if a developer could setlevel my name Arch|Pyro.^Pk to zero so that I can use it.

Thanks.

[kharnov]

Can we please just have setlevel back so we don't have constant threads like this? If you're all scared about admin levels being handed out like candy, then limit it so that you can only promote up to the level two levels below you. Thus, L3 can make people L1 and L4 can make people L2.

Alternatively, give a few very active admins L5.

Either way will result in a lot less work for everyone involved.

[Demolution]

*'Obligatory Kharnov is a commie!' post.*

But +1 on that request.

[A Spork]

Can we please just have setlevel back so we don't have constant threads like this? If you're all scared about admin levels being handed out like candy, then limit it so that you can only promote up to the level two levels below you. Thus, L3 can make people L1 and L4 can make people L2.

Alternatively, give a few very active admins L5.

Either way will result in a lot less work for everyone involved.

Agreed.
Really, imho, if someone is causing shenanigans like last time and promoting everyone in sight, they should lose their admin rights, not make it so everyone else gets neutered abilities.

[CreatureofHell]

You might as well just make an automated system that can tell if that person is who they say they are and then setlevel them.

[Qrntz]

You might as well just make an automated system that can tell if that person is who they say they are and then setlevel them.

Coming on Thursday: ID verifying for Tremulous! Get your Gold Account pre-paid today!

[Ingar]

Done (there were two Arch|pyro accounts I set to 0).

The problem is not setlevel, the problem is players losing their qkey.

[Plague Bringer]

Done (there were two Arch|pyro accounts I set to 0).

The problem is not setlevel, the problem is players losing their qkey.

The problem is players losing their qkey and the solution is setlevel. With the solution behind locked doors, the locked doors become a problem.

[F50]

This is, unfortunately, a standard response to admin rights abuse on the official servers. Rather than remove the admin rights of Lava, shiz, and a few others, or actually enforce the official policy on setlevel (you are responsible for the admins you promote), just remove setlevel. Rather than remove Warlock's admin rights, just remove !allready from everyone.

As kharnov pointed out, one potential solution for the paranoid is to nerf setlevel slightly, by not allowing setlevel to be used to promote to the same level as its user (this has been done on other servers), or to be even more restrictive, restricting setlevel to multiple levels below its user.


However, if the only problem is players loosing their qkey, particularly L1s, but also (more rarely) other admins, an alternate solution exists. It is not hard to code an L0 command that has different restrictions on who it can be used on than setlevel (only works on L1s, for instance).

[kharnov]

This is one of the circumstances where collective punishment wastes the time of everyone involved. Why do I need to constantly ask a developer to setlevel someone because they lost their qkey? How many of these threads do we need? I can't even begin to count the amount of times I've been PM'd by people in-game who think that I can setlevel them because they know I'm an admin. I can't do shit for them.

The funny thing is that I can do this on EU Main because they still have setlevel. Did EU Main descend into complete anarchy with everyone setleveling each other? No, not even when people actually played on EU Main, and most of the people with admin on US Main have the same admin levels on EU Main. I find irony here in that the very person responsible for the loss of setlevel on US Main still has the command to do so on EU Main. Does somebody want to explain this to me? What, or more likely who is stopping you from removing setlevel on EU Main?

Registering someone's name is an important part of keeping people around. There have been circumstances where people have impersonated others for malicious purposes. It also has security uses for admins, in that we need it to keep track of aliased people. Either give someone L5, give us a nerfed /setlevel, give us /L0, but don't be inactive on this issue, because it's going to keep coming up until it's resolved.

[A Spork]

This is one of the circumstances where collective punishment wastes the time of everyone involved. Why do I need to constantly ask a developer to setlevel someone because they lost their qkey? How many of these threads do we need? I can't even begin to count the amount of times I've been PM'd by people in-game who think that I can setlevel them because they know I'm an admin. I can't do shit for them.

The funny thing is that I can do this on EU Main because they still have setlevel. Did EU Main descend into complete anarchy with everyone setleveling each other? No, not even when people actually played on EU Main, and most of the people with admin on US Main have the same admin levels on EU Main. I find irony here in that the very person responsible for the loss of setlevel on US Main still has the command to do so on EU Main. Does somebody want to explain this to me? What, or more likely who is stopping you from removing setlevel on EU Main?

Registering someone's name is an important part of keeping people around. There have been circumstances where people have impersonated others for malicious purposes. It also has security uses for admins, in that we need it to keep track of aliased people. Either give someone L5, give us a nerfed /setlevel, give us /L0, but don't be inactive on this issue, because it's going to keep coming up until it's resolved.

This. a Thousand times this.

[ziplocpeople]

To be honest, the whole setlevel thing wouldn't be an issue if the Devs actually played from time to time (and I don't mean for half an hour, once a month.) The thing is, they don't. Question: Why are admins trusted with /ban, /kick, /mute, [insert myriad of other commands that have the ability to be abused here], and not something like /setlevel? Hell, we can't even use /allready, and the only "negative" thing that can do is shorten post-game conversations (Read, 5 less people saying "gg" or "bg.") If the developers can't trust their own admins, then why have them? That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it. There's admins because contrary to popular belief, the tremulous developers do indeed have lives. This however is where the bottleneck is, because the developers have lives someone needs to go on the forums if they've lost their qkey. This isn't just an annoyance for the player, who may or may not have an account here. It's an issue for the developers who need to get on trem to setlevel the person back to 0. It's also an issue to the admins who have to say on a near daily basis "No, I don't have setlevel, you need to talk to the devs about it." Sometimes this message just plain doesn't get across to the player, I don't know if it's a language barrier between two people with English as their first language or what, but some people simply don't understand the words "I don't have setlevel." /L1 could be part of the issue, someone will see someone else getting level one and think "hey, this admin has setlevel!" and then they're left utterly confused when that admin says they can't, and tells them to ask a developer. There's several things that could be going through that person's mind then, like "aren't developers a myth? I've never seen them before," or "WTF OMG THIS ADMIN HATES ME," possibly even something along the lines of "kurwa." It's also worth noting that the majority of people that I see asking to be L0'd never find their way to the forums, and continue to ask just how they can have this magical event take place.

On another note, setlevel instilled a certain level of fear among admins that simply doesn't exist anymore. When everyone had setlevel, an admin would be far more hesitant to do anything even borderline abuse because their peers might just setlevel them. Admittedly, this can be a double edged sword depending on the circumstance. Sure, it became fairly clear that the whole "setlevel for erreone" philosophy simply didn't work, and not just because of Lava. Lava was upset for a reason, he continually saw people who didn't deserve admin getting it from others who didn't deserve it. Of course, his actions were unwarranted, and I'm sure a nice forum post would have ended much better for him.

That aside, what ever DID happen to level 5? Is it simply that there isn't one active admin you can trust enough for a hefty command like setlevel? If trust really is that much of an issue, we could have a much more democratic server, with absolutely no admins. In fact, if I recall a nice server called Dretch Storm tried that out once... For some reason, people started getting admin again. Next time I see ghostshell I'll have to ask him why he decided to do that, I mean there has to be some reason.

~Medistation out

[Undeference]

Can we please just have setlevel back so we don't have constant threads like this?

There is no real reason for most admins to ever use setlevel, so there's no real reason for them to be able to use the command. (But there is reason for them not to.) Someone losing their qkey and having to get "setlevel"ed again is not a big deal, so stop treating it like it is, people.

You might as well just make an automated system that can tell if that person is who they say they are and then setlevel them.

Do it.

The problem is not setlevel, the problem is players losing their qkey.

And the fact that just about everyone gets level 1 or higher.

The problem is players losing their qkey and the solution is setlevel.

The solution is not solving problems with more problems.

This is, unfortunately, a standard response to admin rights abuse on the official servers. Rather than remove the admin rights of Lava, shiz, and a few others, or actually enforce the official policy on setlevel (you are responsible for the admins you promote), just remove setlevel. Rather than remove Warlock's admin rights, just remove !allready from everyone.

Letting everyone have setlevel was a social experiment that became detrimental and was terminated on US1. Despite what you may have heard, it is not the end of the world.

However, if the only problem is players loosing their qkey, particularly L1s, but also (more rarely) other admins, an alternate solution exists. It is not hard to code an L0 command that has different restrictions on who it can be used on than setlevel (only works on L1s, for instance).

Do it.

This is one of the circumstances where collective punishment wastes the time of everyone involved.

This is one of the circumstances where something is blown way the fuck out of proportion. "Collective punishment"?

I find irony here in that the very person responsible for the loss of setlevel on US Main still has the command to do so on EU Main. Does somebody want to explain this to me?

The issues with setlevel were on US1. No one had issues on EU1 so it didn't get removed initially. And I'm not sure that it is still available on EU1.

There have been circumstances where people have impersonated others for malicious purposes.

So it is a good idea to let any random admin make an impersonator an admin too?

To be honest, the whole setlevel thing wouldn't be isn't an issue if the Devs actually played from time to time (and I don't mean for half an hour, once a month.) The thing is, they don't.

Fixed that for you.

Question: Why are admins trusted with /ban, /kick, /mute, [insert myriad of other commands that have the ability to be abused here], and not something like /setlevel?

Admins are trusted not to abuse the commands they have access to. If I recall correctly, the issue with setlevel wasn't abuse per se, but too many irresponsible people becoming admins. Just because I trust someone not to abuse ban, doesn't mean I implicitly trust all the people they trust.

…

All of the posts in this thread making a big deal out of nothing is more annoying.

Sure, it became fairly clear that the whole "setlevel for erreone" philosophy simply didn't work[…] people who didn't deserve admin getting it from others who didn't deserve it.