Are Tyrants too powerful?

[Dracone]

The only thing you said that makes any sense is kinda the part about battlesuits beating tyrants, although that's extremely shaky at best, but you missed my points completely if you're bringing that up at all, as well as the whole "Sv1" thing, which I have no clue what it is but I'm assuming S1 v S1.

Translate a bit better too, I can see some people getting confused by your English; "tyrant in a battlesuit".

[se7ensnakes]

ideally a tyrant and a battlesuit should be comparable.  One tyrant could overcome a battlesuit and vice versa.  The only real weapon against a tyrant while one on one is the shotgun.  But in this event the battlesuit is really no different than an armour and a helmet.  Why bother to even have a battlesuit?

[Dr. A. Goon]

Classes shouldn't be directly comparable to other classes. There's supposed to be a difference between an alien and a human.  If you want directly comparable classes, play hvh.

[Meisseli]

Why bother to even have a battlesuit?

like... for increased damage protection?

A lot of other things you say in this thread are quite odd. Chaingun, shotgun, lucifer, (painsaw) are the weapons you want to use against tyrants. Two battlesuits is more than enough to kill a tyrant, sometimes even one is enough (a good lucifer mainly), but as others have said, you'll usually have to fight it in a terrain that favours you.

[Plague Bringer]

ideally a tyrant and a battlesuit should be comparable.  One tyrant could overcome a battlesuit and vice versa.  The only real weapon against a tyrant while one on one is the shotgun.  But in this event the battlesuit is really no different than an armour and a helmet.  Why bother to even have a battlesuit?

I love it when apparently unskilled players comment on balance. As Meisseli pointed out, there's a number of weapons that are effective against rants. My personal favorite combination is either the chainsuit or helm/larmor/bpack/luci. It depends a lot on the terrain. One of the worst things is to get too comfortable using one weapon against one class. If you have the opportunity, you should switch it up as much as possible so that you can become a very well-rounded player with the ability to adapt (fairly) well to any situation you may encounter. While I'll agree that there's too much difference between the minimum and maximum potential for the rant, but I don't think you should comment on it if you're not experienced enough to.

inb4 whothefuckareyouPB?

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Why bother to even have a battlesuit?

like... for increased damage protection?

A lot of other things you say in this thread are quite odd. Chaingun, shotgun, lucifer, (painsaw) are the weapons you want to use against tyrants. Two battlesuits is more than enough to kill a tyrant, sometimes even one is enough (a good lucifer mainly), but as others have said, you'll usually have to fight it in a terrain that favours you.

you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?

shouldent the rant, as top alien, have the top melee ability?

shouldent closing into painsaw range be the furthest thing from your mind when facing a rant?

dracopne, i was not being totally serious, i was just throwing it out there.  i would like the armor thing, just to spice it up a bit.

[F50]

Painsaw really only works when the rant cannot concentrate on one of the attacking painsaws IMHO (2 painsaws working together can work wonders for such a cheap weapon)

[Meisseli]

you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?

It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?

It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.

but that does not answer the question.  should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?

i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.

[Meisseli]

you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?

It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.

but that does not answer the question.  should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?

i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.

What are you on about? Conceptually? You have a close-range weapon, the only way to use it is to get into close range.

[Plague Bringer]

you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?

It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.

but that does not answer the question.  should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?

i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.

The idea is that the rant is the supposed to be the strongest melee class in the game, and it is. RAK is grumpy because he thinks that since the rant is the best melee class in the game, no amount of painsaws should ever match up to it. To this, I roll my eyes.

RAK, the painsaw is an effective weapon because it's got a ridiculous DPS (146.5 as opposed to the tyrant's 125). As Meisseli said, you'd be hard pressed to kill a rant one-on-one with a painsaw, but if the rant is distracted, why the hell wouldn't you? It's an incredibly powerful weapon and on top of that it's completely base-safe and idiot-proof. I have no idea the logic behind what you're arguing, though, so I'm not going to try and defeat your argument in any way that makes sense. Instead, I'm going to propose a counter argument:

Why the hell is the +goon so good at sniping? Shouldn't it be weak because the humans are ranged? Last I checked, in a one-on-one situation the +goon with full barbs is a fair match for most humans.

If you'd like to have a logical discussion, I'd love to have one too. But if you're convinced that a high DPS weapon that just happens to be melee shouldn't be good against a rant in any situation ever for concept's sake, I think you should quit while you're ahead (rather, not too far behind).

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

but that does not answer the question.  should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?

i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.

The idea is that the rant is the supposed to be the strongest melee class in the game, and it is. RAK is grumpy because he thinks that since the rant is the best melee class in the game, no amount of painsaws should ever match up to it. To this, I roll my eyes.

RAK, the painsaw is an effective weapon because it's got a ridiculous DPS (146.5 as opposed to the tyrant's 125). As Meisseli said, you'd be hard pressed to kill a rant one-on-one with a painsaw, but if the rant is distracted, why the hell wouldn't you? It's an incredibly powerful weapon and on top of that it's completely base-safe and idiot-proof. I have no idea the logic behind what you're arguing, though, so I'm not going to try and defeat your argument in any way that makes sense. Instead, I'm going to propose a counter argument:

Why the hell is the +goon so good at sniping? Shouldn't it be weak because the humans are ranged? Last I checked, in a one-on-one situation the +goon with full barbs is a fair match for most humans.

If you'd like to have a logical discussion, I'd love to have one too. But if you're convinced that a high DPS weapon that just happens to be melee shouldn't be good against a rant in any situation ever for concept's sake, I think you should quit while you're ahead (rather, not too far behind).

so, you dont see something wrong with humans having a higher DPS in melee with a psaw than any alien?  and are not alien DPSs usually calculated with headshots factored in, so that in order to get the "advertised" DPS, aliens must aim, while humans just need to simply contact the hitbox?

as for the side comment on goon barbs, what's the DPS achievable, and what are the DPS numbers of hs2 equipment?

it is not that the painsaw is good, it is that a 150(?) credit s1 weapon is better than the tyrant.  so human's have the best melee.  humans are also faster (with dodge) and more manoeuvrable (with jetpacks).  as they build just as fast (if not faster) than aliens now, can someone please explain to me what advantages over the humans are the aliens supposed to have?

[Meisseli]

Hahah, painsaw is better than tyrant? And now it costs 150?

Please, play the game sometimes, you might even get your facts straight, and we might not simply laugh you out with what seems to be your bad theories of why you are failing as aliens.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Comparing alien and human weapon DPS on its own is bullshit. You could multiply alien damage and human health (and regen) by 10 without affecting balance.

[vcxzet]

tyrant compared to human
http://i.imgur.com/fdNSC.jpg

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

i had a big long response typed out, but fuck it. you're missing the point entirely, trying to divert the discussion, and finally trying to shove it all of on me theorising why i'm bad.  you are obviously hostile to any discussion of the topic, so i see no point and further drawing it out.

good day.

[Meisseli]

trying to shove it all of on me theorising why i'm bad.

it is not that the painsaw is good, it is that a 150(?) credit s1 weapon is better than the tyrant.  so human's have the best melee.  humans are also faster (with dodge) and more manoeuvrable (with jetpacks).  as they build just as fast (if not faster) than aliens now, can someone please explain to me what advantages over the humans are the aliens supposed to have?

This reads like it: you're being grumpy about how you feel the humans are so overpowered. How you come to the conclusion by saying "humans have painsaw and jetpack" strikes to me as tremendously funny, and like you haven't played the game really.

(Trample DPS is 1110 compared to painsaw's 146,5, by the way, zomg)

[vcxzet]

it is over 900

[Plague Bringer]

but that does not answer the question.  should getting into melee range not be the very last thing you would want to do against a tyrant, in any situation?

i'm not asking if it's a good idea, or if it works, or any of that, i'm asking if - conceptually - it makes any sense that a painsaw is recommended gear in any situation for facing a tyrant.

The idea is that the rant is the supposed to be the strongest melee class in the game, and it is. RAK is grumpy because he thinks that since the rant is the best melee class in the game, no amount of painsaws should ever match up to it. To this, I roll my eyes.

RAK, the painsaw is an effective weapon because it's got a ridiculous DPS (146.5 as opposed to the tyrant's 125). As Meisseli said, you'd be hard pressed to kill a rant one-on-one with a painsaw, but if the rant is distracted, why the hell wouldn't you? It's an incredibly powerful weapon and on top of that it's completely base-safe and idiot-proof. I have no idea the logic behind what you're arguing, though, so I'm not going to try and defeat your argument in any way that makes sense. Instead, I'm going to propose a counter argument:

Why the hell is the +goon so good at sniping? Shouldn't it be weak because the humans are ranged? Last I checked, in a one-on-one situation the +goon with full barbs is a fair match for most humans.

If you'd like to have a logical discussion, I'd love to have one too. But if you're convinced that a high DPS weapon that just happens to be melee shouldn't be good against a rant in any situation ever for concept's sake, I think you should quit while you're ahead (rather, not too far behind).

so, you dont see something wrong with humans having a higher DPS in melee with a psaw than any alien?  and are not alien DPSs usually calculated with headshots factored in, so that in order to get the "advertised" DPS, aliens must aim, while humans just need to simply contact the hitbox?

as for the side comment on goon barbs, what's the DPS achievable, and what are the DPS numbers of hs2 equipment?

it is not that the painsaw is good, it is that a 150(?) credit s1 weapon is better than the tyrant.  so human's have the best melee.  humans are also faster (with dodge) and more manoeuvrable (with jetpacks).  as they build just as fast (if not faster) than aliens now, can someone please explain to me what advantages over the humans are the aliens supposed to have?

RAK, you're comparing straight damage stats which, really, mean nothing, because you'll take out a human with a rant than you will a rant with a human. There are so many variables that you're completely and totally missing. And for the record: No, I don't find it weird that the humans have a weapon that is more "powerful" (but you must admit much less practical) than an alien weapon. Do you find it weird that I prefer +goon to rant in most situations?

Anyway...

Code: [Select]

Barb
Barb damage: 110
Barb repeat: 1200
Barb speed: 1000
Barb splash: 75
Barb regen: 15000
DPS: 91.6


Code: [Select]

Flamer
Price: 400
Damage: 20
Repeat: 200
Ammo: 200
Splash: 10
Radius: 50
Shot size: 15
Shot life: 700
Speed: 300
Lag: 0.65 (amount of your velocity added to the fireball)
DPS: 100 / 50 (direct/splash)


Code: [Select]

Pulse Rifle
Price: 450
Damage: 9
Repeat: 100
Ammo: 40
Max clips: 5
Speed: 1200
Shot size: 5
DPS: 90

So, if you want to get super technical, yes, the flamer does 8.4 more DPS than barbs. However, factoring in HP, regen, range, and terrain, a +goon is easily better than any flamer in range, just like factoring those in, the rant is better than any painsaw in melee. I'm not going to bother explaining this anymore because it's obvious that we're both stuck in our opinions and we aren't budging anywhere. Unfortunately, your opinion is the one that's the most disagreed with, which makes me question the thought behind it. FAREWELL, good talking to you.

[se7ensnakes]

Although playing for 8 months, almost everyday, I still cannot get use to the spatial problem.  Another words, the tyrant appears far but it is not and can kill you, from what is seems like too far. They are impossible to chase when wounded, as humans are very slow.  One human battlesuit vs one tyrant, does not work.  There is no adequate communication to form a team.  The luci with its 200 plus damage is not a melee weapon.

[OhaiReapd]

Why a luci over a missile fire?  A bazooka or RPG?  It would be easier for a newbie to master.

You just answered your own question. If it was easy for a noob, then there would be a problem. Learning curve makes a game.

[Venkman]

I have yet to see a battlesuit win over a tyrant match one on one, unless the tyrant is incomparable... The worse thing i see is humans trying to defend the base with a luci.  They end up destroying their own base trying to shoot an attacker in their own base.

Yeah, I think you're just playing with terrible humans.

Now ask yourself, what else does Rant HAVE? a huge hit-box and barely enough HP to justify it? A slash that is only slightly more powerful than Goon's chomp and a speed that is slightly faster than humans? So basically, take away trample, and all you're left with is a big fat swordfighter against guys with guns. Rant is THE stage-3 class. It has to have SOME advantage.

My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."

I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."

I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.

we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.

[Plague Bringer]

My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."

I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.

we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.

you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.

[jm82792]

you dont see something wrong with the painsaw being one of the most desirable weapons to face a rant?

It was on parentheses and not bolded for a reason. Painsaw is very useful for the tyrant attacking your base, somewhat useful in some cramped corridors and/or if you have a big group supporting you.

Such as painsawing a tyrants backside.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."

I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.

we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.

you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.

you listed advantages, you did not compare them.  debate still open.  but that's not the point - i was making a joke.

[Plague Bringer]

My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."

I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.

we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.

you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.

you listed advantages, you did not compare them.  debate still open.  but that's not the point - i was making a joke.

Comparison.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

My best advice to anyone who thinks one side of Trem is too OP is this:
"Then go play as THAT side."

I promise, doing that is the quickest way to find out just how wrong you are.

we could always get into an extended debate on the comparative advantages of one side over the other, but that rarely turns out well, lol.

you're still here? advantages... let's see. humans have range and a wide as well as up/degradable weapons and armors, aliens have mobility and health and regen and poison. debate debated.

you listed advantages, you did not compare them.  debate still open.  but that's not the point - i was making a joke.

Comparison.

wrong again, those are statistics of the last phase, not a comparison the advantages of the teams. 

and again, you're going out of your way to try to..... to tell the truth, i dont know what you're trying to prove.  again, the debate comment was a joke.