Dretch Floor Headbites

[sirshiz]

I know it's just a game but I like games to have some sort of logic to them.

So riddle me this:
How the hell is a dretch supposed to be able to bite someone's head from the floor?

Discuss.

[Meisseli]

You're five years late...

As per that topic, it's not realistic, it's required for gameplay. No need to redo the discussion.

[sirshiz]

You're five years late...

As per that topic, it's not realistic, it's required for gameplay. No need to redo the discussion.

I know you're trying to be helpful but nothing in that topic goes into any great detail about valid logical reasons for headbites from the floor.
It's mainly about whether it's a feature or not.

What I'm wanting are some rationalizations for how this could happen in the Tremulous universe.

Thank you for your input, though.

[sirshiz]

As per that topic, it's not realistic, it's required for gameplay. No need to redo the discussion.

So topics that have been discussed five years ago can't be reevaluated?..
Either way it's not the same topic because I don't want headbites changed and I know it's a feature and not a bug.
I'm asking the community for their ideas behind the mechanics of floor headbites.

So if that's not something you're interested in please just don't reply.

[Meisseli]

Well, we can of course insert demotivational posters, post "funny" youtube videos, murmur some "good" internet memes and MSPaint some .jpgs about the topic, which obviously seems to be what you had in mind.

Heh, funny how contradicting two replies you produced.

[sirshiz]

Well, we can of course insert demotivational posters, post "funny" youtube videos, murmur some "good" internet memes and MSPaint some .jpgs about the topic, which obviously seems to be what you had in mind.

Heh, funny how contradicting two replies you produced.

What. are. you. fucking. talking. about.

How are my two replies contradicting? They ask for the same thing: how (in the Tremulous universe) could headbites feasibly be achieved from the distance of the floor?

pre·ten·tious
Adjective: Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
see: meisseli

[Plague Bringer]

What. are. you. fucking. talking. about.

How are my two replies contradicting? They ask for the same thing: how (in the Tremulous universe) could headbites feasibly be achieved from the distance of the floor?

IN OTHER WORDS:

NO. It is NOT logically/physically/technically/feasibly possible for a dretch to get a headshot.

Now, STOP.

[F50]

I used to think of it more as a "spit" rather than a "bite". I would be more inclined to think that were "bitten" not so clearly printed on the kill messages.

[Odin]

Amazing how everyone attempts to avoid the question. It's a very simple problem: A dretch is less than one foot high, yet it can reach a human player's head and achieve a critical hit from the floor.

The answer is that the dretch's attack range is too far.

[vcxzet]

Amazing how everyone attempts to avoid the question. It's a very simple problem: A dretch is less than one foot high, yet it can reach a human player's head and achieve a critical hit from the floor.

If you could read you'd see that it had been answered in the very first reply

The answer is that the dretch's attack range is too far.

right... stating the obvious will help

[Qrntz]

See right part of image for the explanation, see left part of image for HERP DERP.

[Meisseli]

Thank you for your input, though.

So if that's not something you're interested in please just don't reply.

Quite contradicting, other one tells me politely "thank you, but..", other one just goes straight for the STFU.

I mean, threads like this delve into posting funny images from the funny land of internet (already done), spouting some funny memes (already done), posting funny youtube videos (not yet done), kharnov making a funny picture of it with MSPaint (still yet to see) etc, all which is supposedly fun.

Anyway, enough of the grumbling on my part. On topic:

The answer is that the dretch's attack range is too far long.

There's the brilliant answer in my humble opinion.

[Lecavalier]

I think it's because the in-game model isn't very accurate. Nux did a much more accurate drawing of what it should look like:

[Dracone]

It's a pretty bad underlying "issue" with the game really. If you're not getting headshots, you're going to be terrible at the game on aliens because it's actually near impossible to easily kill any human that isn't a complete noob without getting them. Unless it's a movement attack like the goon's pounce or the tyrant's charge, anything that isn't a headshot is essentially unrewarded, relatively speaking, since the damages for anything other than a headshot are so ridiculously low.

If you were to solely modify the dretch's attack range, or all of the aliens' attack ranges for that matter, so it was "realistic" for the model, you'd fuck up the game on a tremendous level.

[F50]

The answer is that the dretch's attack range is too far.

Unfortunately, it would be somewhat difficult to maintain the game rules with a reasonable looking bite range. The current dretch damage would have to be increased, but then if a dretch *did* manage to land a headshot, that could be very, very nasty. There are several situations in which it would still be very possible, however to land a headshot, quite possibly including simply jumping at the human's head. While that is more dangerous than dretching on the floor, the damage increase from a pitiful 0.5x on the ground to 1.5x for a head bonus would simply be too good to ignore. The really question is, would that be more fun? Now, actually doing all of this would certainly be an interesting experiment, and an experiment easily written up, but I'm not too optimistic about the results, and you would need players willing to test it.

Thus, avoiding that particular answer is perhaps the point of the question.

[David]

Headshots are 1.5x torso shots.  So important but not the biggest deal ever.

I agree it shouldn't change though,  all of the melee attacks have stupid ranges, same thing happens in all game.  No one cares.

[kharnov]

I think it's because the in-game model isn't very accurate. Nux did a much more accurate drawing of what it should look like:

Is that a dretch, or are you just happy to see me?

[vcxzet]

long bite range emulates a dretch entering your pants and biting your *** off

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

The answer is that the dretch's attack range is too far.

Unfortunately, it would be somewhat difficult to maintain the game rules with a reasonable looking bite range. The current dretch damage would have to be increased, but then if a dretch *did* manage to land a headshot, that could be very, very nasty. There are several situations in which it would still be very possible, however to land a headshot, quite possibly including simply jumping at the human's head. While that is more dangerous than dretching on the floor, the damage increase from a pitiful 0.5x on the ground to 1.5x for a head bonus would simply be too good to ignore. The really question is, would that be more fun? Now, actually doing all of this would certainly be an interesting experiment, and an experiment easily written up, but I'm not too optimistic about the results, and you would need players willing to test it.

Thus, avoiding that particular answer is perhaps the point of the question.

hey now, i do fairly well jumping for the head.  it's even better as a basi from a frontal grab.

[sirshiz]

I used to think of it more as a "spit" rather than a "bite". I would be more inclined to think that were "bitten" not so clearly printed on the kill messages.

Best explanation so far.

Thank you for your input, though.

So if that's not something you're interested in please just don't reply.

Quite contradicting, other one tells me politely "thank you, but..", other one just goes straight for the STFU.

I mean, threads like this delve into posting funny images from the funny land of internet (already done), spouting some funny memes (already done), posting funny youtube videos (not yet done), kharnov making a funny picture of it with MSPaint (still yet to see) etc, all which is supposedly fun.

• You must be fun at parties.
• Both of my comments were pretty far from conveying a STFU. If saying "please just don't reply [if you're not interested]" is to you the equivalent to STFU you need to be on a mood stabilizer.  
• The tone of my second comment may have changed because it addressed the edit you made to your original post, a change which altered your comment's tone a bit.
• As always I appreciate your comments, Meisseli, as I believe you have lots of useful input. But if you don't like the topic why do you keep posting? It's rather baffling to me.

[sirshiz]

It's a pretty bad underlying "issue" with the game really. If you're not getting headshots, you're going to be terrible at the game on aliens because it's actually near impossible to easily kill any human that isn't a complete noob without getting them. Unless it's a movement attack like the goon's pounce or the tyrant's charge, anything that isn't a headshot is essentially unrewarded, relatively speaking, since the damages for anything other than a headshot are so ridiculously low.

If you were to solely modify the dretch's attack range, or all of the aliens' attack ranges for that matter, so it was "realistic" for the model, you'd fuck up the game on a tremendous level.

I agree completely. Rather than change any core gameplay mechanics I thought it would be fun to rationalize the odd attack range. F50's "spit" example is one that I find rather interesting.

[Demolution]

If anything, could you at least not double post? Just edit the previous post. Thank you.

Carry on~

[Anonymoose]

Well, we can of course insert demotivational posters, post "funny" youtube videos, murmur some "good" internet memes and MSPaint some .jpgs about the topic, which obviously seems to be what you had in mind.

Heh, funny how contradicting two replies you produced.

[img]
IN OTHER WORDS:
NO. It is NOT logically/physically/technically/feasibly possible for a dretch to get a headshot.
Now, STOP.

If anything, could you at least not double post? Just edit the previous post. Thank you.

Carry on~

Funny how the ones quickest to indicate that the topic is just going to de-rail and become full of useless posts...
Are the ones filling it up with useless posts...

On topic: i have always visualized it like the headhumpers on Half Life or the egg-layers from the James Cameron Alien movies.
As in the headbites from the floor are a result of the dretch quickly springing upward and lashing out (not hugely important to visually implement)

[Plague Bringer]

On topic: i have always visualized it like the headhumpers on Half Life or the egg-layers from the James Cameron Alien movies.
As in the headbites from the floor are a result of the dretch quickly springing upward and lashing out (not hugely important to visually implement)

Considering that dretch bite in the killfeed and every other alien has an animation for their attack, that's unlikely. If you guys really want to argue about realism I think that it'd be incredibly interesting if you compiled a wiki page or ten outlining the biology of all the alien classes.

Edit: How poison works, the connection to the overmind, how grangers build things, the specifics of the mara zap, etc.

[Relish]

Amazing how everyone attempts to avoid the question. It's a very simple problem: A dretch is less than one foot high, yet it can reach a human player's head and achieve a critical hit from the floor.

The answer is that the dretch's attack range is too far.

With Obama's new socialized food-care system (Obamafarms), there will be no need for the dretch to stretch the boundaries of physics, the average human will only be fed enough to be three feet tall!  When little humans bend down to pet/eat them BAM!  Head eats.  If you're wondering why they wouldn't shoot them before they eat them, it was just published in an EPA study that guns are harmful to the environment and therefore must all be outlawed.  Why did this all happen you ask?  Stop asking questions and remember: it always makes more sense if you don't think about it.

[Undeference]

A dretch is less than one foot high, yet it can reach a human player's head and achieve a critical hit from the floor.

Assuming humans are 1.8m tall, dretches are just shy of 1m tall. A dretch can "stretch" itself so it is 23cm longer than the distance of a human's chin from the floor.

A dretch's range is actually a bit longer than that, but well within the distance a frog-like tongue could account for (ignoring the fact that dretches bite—but not through their bodies).

[kharnov]

If F50 is interested, I'd love to try out a modification on the Brindus server in which the dretch attack range is drastically shortened in exchange for making them harder to hit by being smaller and/or faster.

[David]

They have a frog-like tongue, with their mouth on the end of it.
Alternately, they shoot their entire mouth at the enemy, which then dissolves on contact and they grow a new one.

[Plague Bringer]

Alternately, they shoot their entire mouth at the enemy, which then dissolves on contact and they grow a new one.

Laughed out loud. Get Norf in here.

If F50 is interested, I'd love to try out a modification on the Brindus server in which the dretch attack range is drastically shortened in exchange for making them harder to hit by being smaller and/or faster.

Too much faster and the dretch will become a bottleneck for alien players. I feel like the more speed you add the more difficult it is to play dretch, because dodging is certainly not an inherent skill. Making the dretch the size that it looked in 1.1, or even a tiny bit smaller, would be really interesting.

[UniqPhoeniX]

IMO making dretch hitbox slightly smaller is a bad idea, because:
1. players with really good aim will still hit you about as easily while newbies will fail even more, increasing the skill gap
2. if you can't dodge, it doesn't matter much even vs average players,
3. dretches may be able to fit to places they currently can't, maybe even get outside the map.
IMO increasing hp and speed are better options.