Efficiency doesn't affect gameplay?

[OhaiReapd]

Now, I know that I was completely against showing the efficiency in tremstats for players. But after the time it was down, I really haven't noticed a change in gameplay from players. Campers will camp, and people who play to win will do the very same.

I'm not sure what other people think about this, but I am all for reinstating the efficiency into tremstats. Thanks for your input,

~Reapd

[Plague Bringer]

Most people don't care because they don't know. If Tremulous tracked stats, it'd be fine. Even if Tremulous tracked stats USING Tremstats, it'd be fine. Unfortunately, you have to go out of your way to find your stats using a third party resource.

[OhaiReapd]

Most people don't care because they don't know. If Tremulous tracked stats, it'd be fine. Even if Tremulous tracked stats USING Tremstats, it'd be fine. Unfortunately, you have to go out of your way to find your stats using a third party resource.

Such as? :]

[kharnov]

Most people don't care because they don't know. If Tremulous tracked stats, it'd be fine. Even if Tremulous tracked stats USING Tremstats, it'd be fine. Unfortunately, you have to go out of your way to find your stats using a third party resource.

Such as? :]

A spreadsheet and/or a calculator.

[OhaiReapd]

Most people don't care because they don't know. If Tremulous tracked stats, it'd be fine. Even if Tremulous tracked stats USING Tremstats, it'd be fine. Unfortunately, you have to go out of your way to find your stats using a third party resource.

Such as? :]

A spreadsheet and/or a calculator.

Something requiring less time and/or thought

[kharnov]

Something requiring less time and/or thought

ADHD medication.

[OhaiReapd]

Something requiring less time and/or thought

ADHD medication.

Which one. Or something cheaper, I'm jewish y'know?

[kharnov]

Which one.

In your case, I'd recommend some .45 caliber aspirin.

[KillerWhale]

I noticed a huge change in player attitude with the change. Keep it as is.

[OhaiReapd]

I beg to differ, I've seen no one camp less than they did before hand. But, do you have any specific examples? I mean, the usual camping suspect, Fodder, is still camping. And I'm not saying I don't like you fodder(doubt that you read this). YOU JUST NEVER TALK OMG.

[Nux]

Well, clearly it will only affect people who were concerned about thier tremstats in the first place. Note that this doesn't even mean they'll camp less, just that if they were playing the get-the-most-points game or the don't-look-like-a-feeder game before, they can't anymore and could very well be playing worse.

I honestly don't believe it will have had any effect on the vast majority of people though, and I guess it's good to get rid of the odd person who made a mission out of cheating up a huge score which manages to change the overall statistics by itself.

[Qrntz]

I mean, the usual camping suspect, Fodder, is still camping.

Player Details for Fodder

Code: [Select]

Favorite Target Fodder with 410 kills
lol

[Plague Bringer]

People would care more & play harder if Tremstats were integrated into Tremulous itself. If building kills gave a few more points and winning gave a bonus, it'd be a big incentive for people to "play the objective", as it were. Here's a short IRC chat about it.

[Nux]

I mean, the usual camping suspect, Fodder, is still camping.

Player Details for Fodder

Code: [Select]

Favorite Target Fodder with 410 kills
lol

Wait, what? It really is himself!

[Undeference]

I think it may have been observed or at least suggested that some people tended to change their behaviors based on their tremstats numbers, which may have slightly impacted balance. In other words, if efficiency, kill counts, etc. come back, it will probably be after the 1.2 release.

[Plague Bringer]

I think it may have been observed or at least suggested that some people tended to change their behaviors based on their tremstats numbers, which may have slightly impacted balance. In other words, if efficiency, kill counts, etc. come back, it will probably be after the 1.2 release.

If these stats motivated players to play the objective, it's predictable that the impact on balance will likely be seen in clan matches.

EDIT: Now, I know I've previously said a lot against balancing games for specific and rare events, but you've gotta admit that Tremulous' clan scene is and always has been the backbone of the game.

[OhaiReapd]

Yea!

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

EDIT: Now, I know I've previously said a lot against balancing games for specific and rare events, but you've gotta admit that Tremulous' clan scene is and always has been the backbone of the game.

that is why the clan servers, and not US1, are the most active.


pay no mind.  just me making bad jokes.

[Qrntz]

EDIT: Now, I know I've previously said a lot against balancing games for specific and rare events, but you've gotta admit that Tremulous' clan scene is and always has been the backbone of the game.

that is why the clan servers, and not US1, are the most active.


pay no mind.  just me making bad jokes.

Get on a clan server and wait for 5 minutes. Whoa, you're not alone.
The clan scene is not that vast, but it is what powers the game regardless of the server popularity. A clan scene is not bound to any servers, except possibly using them for matches.
Seriously though, most of the GPP clan servers are there 'because we're that cool to have a server' while only 2-4 of them being used at least periodically.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

i know that, silly cow.  i was making a bad joke.

that qrntz, always jumping in front.  it makes me so frumple.

[OhaiReapd]

EDIT: Now, I know I've previously said a lot against balancing games for specific and rare events, but you've gotta admit that Tremulous' clan scene is and always has been the backbone of the game.

that is why the clan servers, and not US1, are the most active.


pay no mind.  just me making bad jokes.

Get on a clan server and wait for 5 minutes. Whoa, you're not alone.
The clan scene is not that vast, but it is what powers the game regardless of the server popularity. A clan scene is not bound to any servers, except possibly using them for matches.
Seriously though, most of the GPP clan servers are there 'because we're that cool to have a server' while only 2-4 of them being used at least periodically.

we r cul gais we hav  a srvr com chek it ut gais its supr cul gais.

i know that, silly cow.  i was making a bad joke.

that qrntz, always jumping in front.  it makes me so frumple.

Huh?

[Qrntz]

i know that, silly cow.  i was making a bad joke.

ha_ha_ha

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

i know that, silly cow.  i was making a bad joke.

that qrntz, always jumping in front.  it makes me so frumple.

Huh?

THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG HERE.  SOMETHING WHICH MAKES MY SHEATH RETRACT AND MY TALONS OOZE.  I SENSE THE UGLINESS OF A THOUSAND EVIL THOUGHTS.  I HAVE LOCATED THE SOURCE OF THESE FETID EMINATIONS.

[Kiwi]

Efficiency in the sense of kdr means almost nothing when dealing with trem.  Why not use "score / deaths" (for reporting to tremstats at least, it would even work well in the <tab> scoreboard and help to heavily frown upon feeding)?

[Celestial_Rage]

I still think score / time would be most accurate and since it doesn't show deaths, it shouldn't overtly force people to play conservatively. In fact, killing bases is the fastest way to get a higher score, so it would encourage base rushing.

[kharnov]

But the thing is, we don't want to encourage any sort of behavior. The playerbase should not be influenced by any sort of numerical data, or else the stats will start to skew in a particular direction. That's why I still think kills and deaths should be given in percentages, not raw numbers, like this example on the Brindus tremstats:

http://modrotation.mercenariesguild.net/stats/player_details.php?player_id=94

Percentages give more useful information to players anyway. It's sometimes hard to tell what someone is good at when dealing with raw numbers.

[Kiwi]

Percentages wouldn't work because someone could easily join in the last few seconds of the game, get one kill and make it to the top of the scoreboard with 100%.  The time would be given next to "score / deaths" so you could easily extrapolate whether a player is good or bad.  Encouraging less camping in favor of attacking the enemy base is good...

[kharnov]

Percentages wouldn't work because someone could easily join in the last few seconds of the game, get one kill and make it to the top of the scoreboard with 100%.

No. This would be per-kill and per-death, not in terms of score. It wouldn't have any effect on the scoreboard.

Encouraging less camping in favor of attacking the enemy base is good...

You have to think of both the positive and negative effects of each push in a single direction. Yes, I agree that bases should be rushed more, but can you imagine the sort of rampant feeding that would come along with that? It would have other, more subtle effects too, as the alien team is overall stronger in the first stage. If humans are all constantly leaving base to attack the aliens, you're not going to have a team of Dracones and Warlocks running out. You're going to have the coco types and the PCNobody types too, that will feed the alien team until they all have dragoons, allowing them to one-hit kill everything with headchomps and pouncing. Encouraging early-game rushing is a terrible idea unless you also intend on making stage 1 humans balanced with stage 1 aliens.

[Kiwi]

No. This would be per-kill and per-death, not in terms of score. It wouldn't have any effect on the scoreboard.

Then I don't see how this improves anything apart from cluttering the scoreboard and adding "tremstats efficiency debates" to the game?

You have to think of both the positive and negative effects of each push in a single direction. Yes, I agree that bases should be rushed more, but can you imagine the sort of rampant feeding that would come along with that? It would have other, more subtle effects too, as the alien team is overall stronger in the first stage. If humans are all constantly leaving base to attack the aliens, you're not going to have a team of Dracones and Warlocks running out. You're going to have the coco types and the PCNobody types too, that will feed the alien team until they all have dragoons, allowing them to one-hit kill everything with headchomps and pouncing. Encouraging early-game rushing is a terrible idea unless you also intend on making stage 1 humans balanced with stage 1 aliens.

Perhaps(I see your point but disagree)... but at least in this case the "/ deaths" portion would take care of mindless rushing that leads to just feeding.  It would certainly help more than the current "score" on the scoreboard.  Then, the "score /" would encourage rushing when it's advantageous and not dying (aka actually returning to the base when you are hurt).