The frustration of being a builder

[Nux]

Interesting idea. When would this Designation faff happen though? If you're so unorganised that you need such restrictions, I can imagine time spent designating would be time wasted =/ just a thought

[ZEL]

i like the idea mainly because it sounds like a good way to stop deconners.  I dont know if it should be regularly invoked, but maybe it could be an admin command or something.

Great idea Rippy.



Sorry for the noob defence   , i've got many of the same frustrating stores.  But i dont like it when people get elitist about the game.  

You're right though, damn retarded players who decon shit without asking, repeatedly charge out to fight aliens without armor or a helmet, luci blast the base (annoying even without FF, i dont like being bounced around or out of my base  :evil: ), etc.



If i join a game late, even if the base sucks i ask permission before i move stuff.  I think its the polite thing to do, because its somebody elses base build.  If it startes getting destroyed i definitley revamp stuff, but it would be nice if people were better about asking before they rearange a base.

[Jaradcel]

Would that be rough to implement? Sounds good, but then how do we control who can vote?


And I'll make it clear: I LIKE teaching newbies who are willing to learn. I just finished a game with Plague, Basilicious and a few other pros, and there was a helpless newbie who was politely asking how to sell his con kit and get a gun. I spent most of that game msging instead of paying attention to the base (Which is sort of the point of my base, to make it so well I can ignore it for a few minues without it falling apart)

What I DON'T like is those people who don't react when you talk to them, randomly decon (the aforementioned reactor deconner is def. going on my votekick list for sure if I ever see that happen) and just grief thinking it's "fun".

Maybe they don't speak English, but at least a quick "gomen nasai" or "monsiuer" or something to at least indicate my presence or words. Nothing. That's just being either very rude, or very, very n00b. After playing for awhile, I am now inclined to think the latter over the former. What about everyone else?

[ZEL]

yep.

usually if people dont answer at all its because they just dont want too.  Sometimes this is because the individual is too busy to type, but if this is not the case than they're ignoring you on purpose.  Usually these are the "arrogant" type noobs, the ones who dont know what they're doing, but played counterstrike enough that they think they can figure it all out and dont want you to teach them.  Because they're retarded.  I'm an easy going guy, but i hate with a passion noobs who think they know wtf they're doing.  I just cant stop killing them  :roll: .

[Rippy]

i like the idea mainly because it sounds like a good way to stop deconners.  I dont know if it should be regularly invoked, but maybe it could be an admin command or something.

If it were an admin command, there'd have to be an admin on. And then he might as well just kick/ban the deconers and rude builders.

Good point, I guess noone would START as a designated builder, but it could be voted if need be. That way it can be ignored until there's a problem. Since I like the building system how it is right now, where everyone is trusted, and that should only change when there's a reason for it.

[Undeference]

It would be an interesting solution: some idiot is building and ignoring you, so you call a vote to make yourself the designated builder.

[ZEL]

even an admin cant prevent deconning.  When a player decons your base while youre under attack, it doesnt matter if the admin kicks/bans the guy immediatly, the damage has been done.

So yes, the designate builder thing would be useful as an admin command too.  

[Caveman]

All good... not .)
That would work in clans where everyone (should) know their stuff but there we don't really need that.

So think we have that implemented, where do builder-noobs go to learn?
Now please don't tell me 'on their own servers' as that wouldn't work due to various reasons.

Besides that the voting at the start of each map would/could take too long.
Me, being also quite impatient, I'd hate to being forced first to agree on a builder before I could play.

[Ceaser342]

I was on the Armmegeddon 2 server.  Some prick named ASH moved the reactor out into the middle of the hallway.  People start yelling to get defenses out there.  Even though I'm not a regular builder I know that a reactor in the middle of a hallway=death.  I yell to move it back in I'm ignored.  The aliens notice and start stepping up there attacks.  Meanwhile ASH is busy moveing evreything outside.  I yell again then when all else failed me and a few guys who knew how to play quickly deconned the out side base in record time got the new base up in the old and infedentily better spot.  ASH tried to call a votkick o us but lost ad promptly got kicked.

So ya deconners and jerks are punks.  The designated builder is a good idea maybe a vote at the begining of the game and both teams have to choose before the game starts.

[next_ghost]

Designated builder is a good idea as long as it stays vote/admin command. If some noob gets designated builder status just by spawning first with ckit, it will mean a lot of pain. On the other hand, if some noob gets designated builder status in a vote, the voters will get what they wanted. Loss.

[kozak6]

Just was playing on SST.  How frustrating.

I tried to build a defendable base while every experienced player quickly switched to the human team, and my helpful granger buddies decided that it would be best to build what could be described as an egg farm downstairs.

To hell with it.  I'm just going to switch to human to as soon as this shit starts to happen next time.

[Jaradcel]

Cave: Def. not on their own that's for certain, because then they'll think they have the best base, but not consider how it works out under fire.

I PREFER, however, to have them be riflemen sitting on the base (Camping for newbies = allowed inmy book) as they watch me build it, and then if they still wonder why "All the turrets aren't being used to attack" and ask, I'd be delighted to teach them and let them learn by example.

Being baptized by fire is nice and all, but it makes for some very frustrating games lately.

[kozak6]

Played SST again.

My base was doing fine and in great shape, so I decided to evolve and go fight.

Oops.

Random constructions were deconned regardless of their importance in order to build acid tubes on the ceiling.

I managed to relocate what was important, and went to fight some more.

In the meantime, the base was picked apart and stupid random junk was built all over the place.

The trappers I put up were deconned and  rebuilt ON THE GODDAMN FLOOR.

We lost.

A few maps before, one particular granger decided to reinforce a random and unimportant hallway with every spare point.  Even while the base was under attack.  Especially while the base was under attack, even, so then he could suck up the build points from destroyed structures.  SD hit, and the hallway was wiped clean.

We lost that one as well.

SST is like crack.

The additional build points are wonderfully addictive, but it just doesn't seem to be worth it if my base is going to be pissed all over by my own damn team.

The courageous humans are amusing, though, picking naked rifle fights with my Adv Goon.

[David]

the vote idea has one problem.
when out base is being raped, if i dont have any cash for big guns (or even if i do) i'll grab a ckit and stop turrits exploding. even more inportant in SD. if you had to vote for builders then the one builder would be overwhlemed by a big 2 prong attack and the base defences would fail somewhere, becouse he was repairing someplace else.  also, for moves you need more than one ckit.

[next_ghost]

the vote idea has one problem.
when out base is being raped, if i dont have any cash for big guns (or even if i do) i'll grab a ckit and stop turrits exploding. even more inportant in SD. if you had to vote for builders then the one builder would be overwhlemed by a big 2 prong attack and the base defences would fail somewhere, becouse he was repairing someplace else.  also, for moves you need more than one ckit.

Vote for builders? You misunderstood the concept. Anyone could grab a ckit and repair anything just like now. However, he could not DECON anything built by designated builder. You could receive and lose the designated builder status by vote or admin command.

Now there's a question - when a designated builder loses his status, should his buildings remain protected or not? And should it be possible to unvote the designated builder status given by admin?

I also think designated builders should be able to protect some buildings (eg. reactor) or cancel protection without having to decon and rebuild.

[Glunnator]

Noobs.
I like teaching noobs who are willing to help.
Hey, someone said that already!
So what, it's true!
DARNIT
You ppl just wait. there still are a lot of n00bs and nutcakes joining trem because trem is still fairly new. this meaning that a lot of ppl are finding tremulous and never saw it before. "Hey i wanna give it a try!" they say.
And they log on, having no freaking idea what the game is going to be like.
And so on, and so on, and so on.

I know! I did it once in the very same way!
(Mind you, the very first thing i did when i logged on was change my name from unnamedplayer to Glunnator)

Now, if we wait some time, most ppl on this (large, large) world, will have found and tried tremulous. guess what? 78% less noobs!

Thats all i can say for now.
And the griefers who purposly keep their name "unnamed"?
Thats a whole different story.

THE END (of the world, me, my honour, my clan, my post, etc.)

[Rippy]

So think we have that implemented, where do builder-noobs go to learn?

Well, noone would START as the builder, you'd have to call a vote to choose one, and that would only happen when there's a need (noone's gonna bother working when everyone's building fine).

As for the newbies, I suppose the DB could give teammates his rights (and remove them at will), so that other trusted players can build/decon like he can, exept only he's technically the DB. And of course all players would be able to repair things.

I think having noone become the DB unless there's a vote, and allowing the DB to share his rights, would make it work fine.

[kozak6]

I was thinking, it might work if you had to bind a key to play as a builder.

[Glunnator]

I was thinking, it might work if you had to bind a key to play as a builder.

What about /bind <key> <list of all weapons and stuff in trem with sell in front> buy<advconstructkit bind. what is it called?> buy<normal kit.>

This will sell your weapon and automatically buy you the highest const kit available. IF your at an armoury and you are human, of course.

[tuple]

noob with the fastest computer always joins the game first and spawns granger/engineer.  Yikes.

[DarkRogue]

heh alot of SST builders have no clue how tremulous structures work.

Floor trappers...trappers really high on a vertical wall...turrets and teslas crammed together...

If any bad SST builders are paying attention...which I doubt since the majority of such are probably off stuffing crayons up their noses:

1) Trappers have a fifteen degree firing arc, this means unless it's straight down or straight across from where a human passes it's not going to fire/work reliably.

2) Acid tubes are proximity based, this means the closer they are to humans the more effective they are. Building tubes on a high ceiling really doesn't work.

3) Teslas/turrets cannot fire THROUGH each other. If you cram defenses in a 2x2 box only the front two will fire. YEs this has been tested, teslas will NOT fire over turrets or through obstructing teslas. Similarly defenses cannot shoot through you, unless they're already firing at an alien. Also true: You cannot shoot through your defenses. Shooting a luci at a tesla will not see the luci make it to the alien on the other side....

[Caveman]

noob with the fastest computer always joins the game first and spawns granger/engineer.  Yikes.

Not true if you know your cvar

[KorJax]

Yes true for most people.  Many times i join games late because not only does it take 30 sec to a min to load, but many times the map fails to load so i have to reconnect in order to join.

Oh, and I have to say.  I am SO GLAD SST doesnt show up on my server browser (for some reason), because apparently its a newb fest.  AKKA does though, and somtimes newbs play there.

If i wanna play on a super-build point server, i play TJW.  Not only does it have an effective admin and vote system that prevents griefers, and its a reasonably sized server, and has more build points.  Everyone wins!

[Seafoideach]

Either way, the basic concept of having a designated builder seems good to me. Comments?

Sounds okay to me. Can't think of any problems right now. I wonder how hard it would be to have DB status carry over from previous rounds.


Something else we could perhaps do is start putting something in our names to show our level of building ability. Something like "{HB}" at the end if you're okay/good at human building, with "{AB}" being the obvious alien equivalent. Could also have "{MB}" for 'master builder', which would be people who are good on both sides (preferably masterful in skill).

This wouldn't eliminate the problems, but it might alleviate some.


Does anyone want me to stop with my sucky ideas?