the retarded mentality of some TremZ/Unvanquished enthusiasts

[/dev/humancontroller]

i really wanna play this game now

what the cockfuck are you retards so excited about? all you're getting is new models for a few aliens and weapons, new sounds, a new map, and slightly tweaked balance settings. and new bugs.

[CreatureofHell]

i really wanna play this game now

what the cockfuck are you retards so excited about? all you're getting is new models for a few aliens and weapons, new sounds, a new map, and slightly tweaked balance settings. and new bugs.

1.2 in a nutshell.

[SamOz]

That's not "TremZ", it's only "Unvanquished".

The TremZ game hasn't been released yet.

[Khaoz]

Yes, TremZ don't want to release an alpha. They want the final release to be full of bugs that nobody bothered looking for.

[SamOz]

Gloriously fascinating that such great numbers of bystanders claim precious inside knowledge and the ability to foretell the future. It must be a new era of enlightenment.

[Nux]

I don't see anything mysterious about people looking forward to free assets.

[Tremulant]

That's not "TremZ", it's only "Unvanquished".

The TremZ game hasn't been released yet.

Which is odd, considering that Volt had planned to rush tremz out by new years day, i take it that was supposed to be a finished product and not a shoddy alpha like these poor amateurs have produced?

[FisherP]

Time for a chill pill everyone.....

Tremulous/Tremz/Unvanquished is just a game y'all, it srsly doesn't matter one jot. After you play the game, what do you get? Wasted time? More aggravated? The false sensation that you've achieved something? The false ego boost that you are better than someone else just 'cause you frag better?

I think everyone needs to gain some perspective on this. There are people dying in this world 'cause they don't have clean water. Children forced into slave labor, and you're all bickering over a game?

[Tremulant]

There are people dying in this world 'cause they don't have clean water. Children forced into slave labor, and you're all bickering over a game?

Shit, seriously?! 
Right, from now on we'd better stop discussing computer games on this forum dedicated to computer games and start being more socially aware, not just in general but right here on this computer game related forum, come on people!

Or, to put it another way, fuck off, you self-righteous dick...

[/dev/humancontroller]

Tremulous/Tremz/Unvanquished is just a game y'all, it srsly doesn't matter one jot.

WRONG.

After you play the game, what do you get? Wasted time? More aggravated? The false sensation that you've achieved something? The false ego boost that you are better than someone else just 'cause you frag better?

no. self-entertainment (includes: a right sensation that you've achieved something), a fuel for productivity. also, public entertainment via display of skill, aka e-sports.

you're all bickering over a game?

at least what we're doing is more useful than what you'll ever do.

[FisherP]

@Tremulant and humancontroller

Touchy touchy. I hit a nerve it seems. Poor sods, I feel sorry for both of you, I truly do. Did I expose your childishness?

[/dev/humancontroller]

Touchy touchy. I hit a nerve it seems. Poor sods, I feel sorry for both of you, I truly do. Did I expose your childishness?

you did hit a nerve. your level of retardedness of your mentality must not be left unretorted.

[/dev/humancontroller]

That's not "TremZ", it's only "Unvanquished".

Unvanquished is the name of the 3rd race mod project. recently, TremZ has been renamed to Unvanquished. to avoid ambiguity and to support the first-come first-serve basis of naming, i'll stick to using TremZ/Unvanquished. i've even heard that volt and a couple of other nuobs are still trying to do something with a "fork" of an old version of TremZ/Unvanquished, let's call that just TremZ.

The TremZ game hasn't been released yet.

none of the following games have been released: Unvanquished, TremZ/Unvanquished, TremZ. (there is, however, a TremZ/Unvanquished work-in-progress alpha version available.)

[SamOz]

That's not "TremZ", it's only "Unvanquished".

The TremZ game hasn't been released yet.

Which is odd, considering that Volt had planned to rush tremz out by new years day, i take it that was supposed to be a finished product and not a shoddy alpha like these poor amateurs have produced?

Plans change and must fit with reality. It's stupid to stick to a release date when development is nowhere near good enough. Volt and many others wanted to delay until they felt the game was ready. I was one of those arguing against releasing unfinished rubbish; see my posts on the TremZ forum. There were other people on the Unvanquished side who wanted to stick to a firm release date despite their game-engine (Daemon) not being ready. Arguments ensued upon this issue and others. Accusations were thrown, and all the usual idiocy when people try to rationalise dumb decisions, silly childish attitudes, stubborness, ridiculous insults, and crazy paranoia. Unvanquished devs released their version (Unvanquished/Daemon), the TremZ devs chose not to release theirs (OpenWolf). Unvanquished's Daemon engine has proven itself to be more bug-infested a flea-bitten dog in Calcutta. The TremZ devs continue to work on their game-engine (OpenWolf). They refuse to release it until they believe it will it's ready. Testing continues.

[Tremulant]

Unvanquished devs released their version (Unvanquished/Daemon), the TremZ devs chose not to release theirs (OpenWolf)

Ok, now i'm confused, so who are the tremz engine devs vs the unv engine devs and is daemon not openwolf based in itself?
Openwolf is dushan's copy and pastefest devoted to adding awesome sounding but ultimately unnecessary features to the engine(a lot of text in changelogs or feature planning lists even looked copy pasted from XreaL the last time i bothered to look, so they weren't even original, where they were vaguely sensible ideas.).
There's also ETXreal(tbh i'm not entirely sure what it is but it seems to be a port of a q3 based game to a more modern renderer based on xreal, so may be relevant), but you don't want anything to do with that, it isn't run by an excitable idiot with a copy/paste fetish.

As for this...

Plans change and must fit with reality.

At no point did anything volt had suggested was possible have anything to do with reality, I questioned the release date at the time it was announced, apparently it was all ok and i had to have faith, i was told not to troll, you lot chose not to listen to those of us who questioned your god, and now you gloss over the steady stream of pure bullshit that volt has generated, what the hell is wrong with you people?

[1337-Kynes]

Plans change and must fit with reality. It's stupid to stick to a release date when development is nowhere near good enough. Volt and many others wanted to delay until they felt the game was ready. I was one of those arguing against releasing unfinished rubbish; see my posts on the TremZ forum. There were other people on the Unvanquished side who wanted to stick to a firm release date despite their game-engine (Daemon) not being ready. Arguments ensued upon this issue and others. Accusations were thrown, and all the usual idiocy when people try to rationalise dumb decisions, silly childish attitudes, stubborness, ridiculous insults, and crazy paranoia. Unvanquished devs released their version (Unvanquished/Daemon), the TremZ devs chose not to release theirs (OpenWolf). Unvanquished's Daemon engine has proven itself to be more bug-infested a flea-bitten dog in Calcutta. The TremZ devs continue to work on their game-engine (OpenWolf). They refuse to release it until they believe it will it's ready. Testing continues.

Why we released, why it was a good idea, and why you are being silly:

 - You are really exaggerating the bugginess
 - A bunch of bugs have been found and squashed, thanks to the large numbers of players we've seen in the last few days.
 - Opening up the project is a huge step on the right direction. There isn't really any reason to keep this stuff secret.
 - Actually seeing stannum's weapons in game was kickass.
 - We said we'd give y'all binaries on the 29th, so we did. We have no desire to be vaporware.

[/dev/humancontroller]

who are the tremz engine devs vs the unv engine devs and is daemon not openwolf based in itself?

TremZ devs: volt, HermXIV; OpenWolf devs: dushbag.
TremZ/Unvanquished & Daemon devs: everyone else.
Daemon is based on OpenWolf.

[/dev/humancontroller]

Why we released, why it was a good idea, and why you are being silly:

- We said we'd give y'all binaries on the 29th, so we did. We have no desire to be vaporware.

WRONG. we first said that we'd release the finished game before 2012-01-01, but we did not. (i like¹ how kharnov then said "we're dedicated as ever ..." to make the team sound smart and professional despite being an utter cockfucking failure.) we changed the game's release date to 2012-02-29, but at that date, the game still wasn't done. the work-in-progress was thrown out to avoid some further embarassment (though in the process, generating other embarassment due to bugs).

¹ NOT

[SamOz]

Why we released, why it was a good idea, and why you are being silly:

 - You are really exaggerating the bugginess
 - A bunch of bugs have been found and squashed, thanks to the large numbers of players we've seen in the last few days.
 - Opening up the project is a huge step on the right direction. There isn't really any reason to keep this stuff secret.
 - Actually seeing stannum's weapons in game was kickass.
 - We said we'd give y'all binaries on the 29th, so we did. We have no desire to be vaporware.

- Incorrect, the Unvanquished game is still hopelessly filled with bugs. It still can't compile on most people's computers. It won't even compile in Linux on 3 of the computers that I have. It only works on one. Problems with cmake. Errors aplenty.

- A whole bigger bunch of bugs haven't been squashed, thanks to the large numbers of people who can't even get the game to start. lol

- Publicly releasing crap is still publicly releasing crap. Whoever thought it was a good idea would go bankrupt in the real world. Lucky it's open-source and just a hobby, but it's still a public release of crap. Verbal gymnastics, word-games, and bizarre rationalisations of total nonsense don't change that.

- Very nice, Stannum's work is in both games. Besides, MOST people can't see a damn thing because the Unvanquished game won't start, won't install properly, or crashes. They do have the good fortune of seeing cool looking HALF-FINISHED assets IF they can get past those major difficulties - lol

- Yes, a great dumping of the dog-poo on everyone just because it fit a planned date that was totally unrealistic. People must be very happy to recieve crap that doesn't work for most people, and is more buggy than a whorehouse in a slum.

[Erwin Rommel]

Sam, do you even care about the principle reason why people (including myself) are leaving volt's (lol) tremz? 
It isn't that one engine is better than another, there are two simple facts:

1)volt has a history of cutting corners and essentially ripping off other artists.

2) He is too volatile to be a team leader.  He over reacts to minor things and dumps helpful people if they don't agree with his own ideas of how things should be run.

I left because of the first reason.  In my mind there is undeniable proof that volt has been stealing assets from companies and artists, passing them off as his own, and then acting hurt whenever someone says the don't like it.  Even apart from the ethics of stealing and any possible repercussions that may bring, volt has a proven track record of lying, cutting corners, and Plagiarism.

I cannot afford to attach myself to a project lead by an individual whose ethics are so poor.

But, that aside, the frustrating part to me is that some people don't seem to realize how volt is running his project.




*Keep in mind, I have every reason to be attached to volt since he is essentially how I got into helping with tremz.  He was essentially my knight on a white horse who came charging in to save my beloved tremulous.  I was so glad then, that I was blinded to some how his earlier decisions (which incidentally also involved "stealing" assets) pointed the way toward today's situation.

[Celestial_Rage]

- Incorrect, the Unvanquished game is still hopelessly filled with bugs. It still can't compile on most people's computers. It won't even compile in Linux on 3 of the computers that I have. It only works on one. Problems with cmake. Errors aplenty.

- A whole bigger bunch of bugs haven't been squashed, thanks to the large numbers of people who can't even get the game to start. lol

- Publicly releasing crap is still publicly releasing crap. Whoever thought it was a good idea would go bankrupt in the real world. Lucky it's open-source and just a hobby, but it's still a public release of crap. Verbal gymnastics, word-games, and bizarre rationalisations of total nonsense don't change that.

- Very nice, Stannum's work is in both games. Besides, MOST people can't see a damn thing because the Unvanquished game won't start, won't install properly, or crashes. They do have the good fortune of seeing cool looking HALF-FINISHED assets IF they can get past those major difficulties - lol

- Yes, a great dumping of the dog-poo on everyone just because it fit a planned date that was totally unrealistic. People must be very happy to recieve crap that doesn't work for most people, and is more buggy than a whorehouse in a slum.

1) Please don't equate your incompetency with bugs in the engine. Last I talked to you, your "cmake errors aplenty" was your inability to locate the CMakeLists.txt.

2) And we're sorting out those issues. It seems you are unfamiliar with open source software, especially the "open" part. The whole point of open source software is to have it PUBLIC and AVAILABLE to anyone who wants to help or try it out. What's the point of an opensource game if all the development happens behind closed doors and nothing is released? That's as good as vaporware to me.

3) I'd like to reiterate that just because you cannot run it now, doesn't mean that you won't be able to run it in the future. In fact, as developers, we only know how well the software will run on our own systems, but we cannot know for certain how well it will run on other's systems until we release. I hope you weren't expecting this to run flawlessly on every system ever made without tests? As we listen to why this game doesn't work on some people's systems, we work on fixing it and make it work. Simple as that. Calling a release "dog-poo" because you cannot run it is stupid and pointless for an open source game. Who are you to complain? You didn't pay a cent for it, and we're still working hard to make it work for as many systems as we can.

[danmal]

- Incorrect, the Unvanquished game is still hopelessly filled with bugs. It still can't compile on most people's computers. It won't even compile in Linux on 3 of the computers that I have. It only works on one. Problems with cmake. Errors aplenty.

This shouldn't be happening. Please report your errors and they'll get fixed. Most cmake errors are to do with people being unfamiliar with compiling from source.

- A whole bigger bunch of bugs haven't been squashed, thanks to the large numbers of people who can't even get the game to start. lol

Can you provide any evidence for this? There's been very few posts of people unable to get unvanquished to work that haven't been resolved.

- Publicly releasing crap is still publicly releasing crap. Whoever thought it was a good idea would go bankrupt in the real world. Lucky it's open-source and just a hobby, but it's still a public release of crap. Verbal gymnastics, word-games, and bizarre rationalisations of total nonsense don't change that.

This is the main problem I have with Volt/SamOz. They're treating TremZ like a commercial project when it isn't. There's no chance that they'll release "commercial quality assets" in any reasonable timeframe. If they wanted to do so they'd have to scrap pretty much every model/map and start over again. They keep talking about making a splash and impressing the community/review sites but this isn't how opensource projects generally work. They release an early buggy/incomplete alpha and then slowly work on adding features/fixing problems. After this is all done then they start advertising themselves. Try and name one large opensource project that had polished and feature complete first release.

- Very nice, Stannum's work is in both games. Besides, MOST people can't see a damn thing because the Unvanquished game won't start, won't install properly, or crashes. They do have the good fortune of seeing cool looking HALF-FINISHED assets IF they can get past those major difficulties - lol

I very very very much doubt that most people can't get the game to run. There's been very few bug reports that haven't been resolved. Again I would like to know what you're basing this on.

It's getting irritating reading your posts when they're always about how bad unvanquished is. They're never about how TremZ differs from unvanquished or what features TremZ is going to have. They're always negative and generally amount to nothing more then mud slinging.

[Tremulant]

I think i get volt's strategy now, surround yourself with people even more deluded and vocal than yourself, start to look positively reasonable by comparison, gj SamOz and herm.

[Qrntz]

SamOz, I honestly expected more from you than this.
I won't even waste my time replying.

Publicly releasing crap is still publicly releasing crap.

Publicly spewing bullshit is still publicly spewing bullshit. Take care.

gj SamOz and herm.

lol

[/dev/humancontroller]

Please report your errors and they'll get fixed.

a user using a buggy program receives frustration and sometimes loses revenue. the point in a statement like "this program is buggy" is not that the speaker asks for an application of warranty or a refund, because that is not applicable to a free, open-source project. instead, the point of the said statement is a message to the programmer: FUCK YOU! programmers already receive a lot of credit for contributing code to the project, however, they do not receive the enough FUCK YOU!s for their buggy codes, and should receive more.

- A whole bigger bunch of bugs haven't been squashed, thanks to the large numbers of people who can't even get the game to start. lol

Can you provide any evidence for this?

let's just say this: there are infinite bugs in Tremulous, and due to a new and immature engine, the amount of bugs in Tremulous is infinitesimal to the amount of bugs in OpenWolf/Daemon & TremZ/Unvanquished.

It's getting irritating reading your posts when they're always about how bad unvanquished is. They're never about how TremZ differs from unvanquished or what features TremZ is going to have.

this shouldn't even be mentioned, because that old TremZ project shouldn't even exist (or at least, be continued) anymore. however, here's a nice summary: TremZ sux goatballs, TremZ/Unvanquished sux a bit less.

They're always negative and generally amount to nothing more then mud slinging.

that's what we all like and it contributes to a required dosage of FUCK YOU!s. it also discourages people from starting failprojects in the future.

[Qrntz]

Haha.

Code: [Select]

    [23:23:47] <SamOz> Hi to all out there
    [23:25:29] <danmal> hello
    [23:26:13] <kim_plausible> so sam have you tried the recent changed on unvanquished ?
    [23:26:29] <SamOz> no - been so busy today, never had time to look
    [23:26:45] <SamOz> saw their forums being setup
    [23:26:53] <kim_plausible> ah, well i'm not sure if there is anything for me in those changes, i only experienced one major bug anyway
    [23:26:54] <SamOz> looks pretty
    [23:27:13] <kim_plausible> game crash on vid_restart :D
    [23:27:26] <SamOz> removing features mostly
    [23:27:35] <SamOz> to reduce bugs
    [23:28:12] <danmal> Tremz?
    [23:28:32] <danmal> Who's removing features?
    [23:28:40] <SamOz> TremZ - concentrating in improvement, not removing features
    [23:29:09] <SamOz> some of the high-end stuff on the Unv was cut back, too many hassles
    [23:29:33] <danmal> How long ago was this?
    [23:29:48] <SamOz> the problem for both is bugs, - oh only days ago
    [23:29:59] <danmal> Errr
    [23:30:04] <danmal> Can you point me to the commit?
    [23:30:14] <danmal> Cause I must have missed it
    [23:31:18] <SamOz> sorry, I can't do that at the moment, kind of busy... you'll find it you look back about 2 or 3 days
    [23:32:04] <danmal> I can't see it
    [23:32:26] <SamOz> just checking out Ubuntu 11.10 right now, slow as ever
    [23:33:07] <danmal> Unless you mean disabling news?
    [23:34:46] <SamOz> little bit by little bit, because of conflicts causing bugs, it's a gradual attempt to simply the fixes
    [23:34:55] <danmal> What do you mean?
    [23:35:01] <danmal> Are you referring to news?
    [23:35:22] <SamOz> without TheDushan, they can't find those tiny problems so quick
    [23:35:44] <danmal> Please, read what I'm typing
    [23:35:46] <danmal> please
    [23:35:50] <danmal> what are you talking about?
    [23:36:14] <danmal> What high end features have been removed?


[CorSair]

Both of the projects are already doomed to be dumped into grave. Someone PM me if there actually is something significant happening on either projects.
Note left on table:
I never read PMs, so don't bother.

[SamOz]

who are the tremz engine devs vs the unv engine devs and is daemon not openwolf based in itself?

TremZ devs: volt, HermXIV; OpenWolf devs: dushbag.
TremZ/Unvanquished & Daemon devs: everyone else.
Daemon is based on OpenWolf.

Should've replied to this nonsensical deception before.

TremZ devs number around 9 people. OpenWolf developers include not only TheDushan, but all his allies and assistance in the wider quake community, particularly Enemy Territory.

Unvanquished devs are those who left. That's it. Many followed, fine. No problem.

Daemon is a primitive early version COPY of the OpenWolf engine that is divergent. They're not exactly the same any more. OpenWolf is more advanced.

1) Please don't equate your incompetency with bugs in the engine. Last I talked to you, your "cmake errors aplenty" was your inability to locate the CMakeLists.txt.

Fiction is a wonderful thing, but telling stories that are untrue about others is more than a little dishonest. I was clearly referring to the ENGINE not being able to locate the CMakeLists.txt on one of the many tests we have done, due to a bug - which was fixed rather easily.  lol

2) And we're sorting out those issues. It seems you are unfamiliar with open source software, especially the "open" part. The whole point of open source software is to have it PUBLIC and AVAILABLE to anyone who wants to help or try it out.

Prior agreements with TheDushan, you should think about that. There are legal issues, they have been explained, some choose to decieve themselves since they rather not accept that any legal issues could possibly constrain them. Apparently, you want to encourage outright thievery and breach of contractual agreements.

3) I'd like to reiterate that just because you cannot run it now, doesn't mean that you won't be able to run it in the future.

Straying into fantasy again with all your rambling - lol - I've been carrying out hardware tests that none of you have done, with operating systems that none of you are apparently familiar with. If the game doesn't run adequately on the majority of those systems, then to me it's a highly lacking in playability, it's a disservice to the public to release rubbish. Others not directly in the TremZ project yet associated with it, have also been assisting in this testing.

Unvanquished devs have relied upon the haphazard, random complaints about bugs that players report. By this method, they'll likely only resolve the most obvious and nothing more. The TremZ team goes by a different ideology (and that's all this really is about on both sides), they prefer to be careful, aim for quality, and plan. Without the distractions of divisive time-wasting nonsense, the project is moving ahead rapidly using this attitude.

I very very very much doubt that most people can't get the game to run.

Check downloads versus number of players. There are way too much of the former compared with the number of the later. It's highly disproportionate. A lot of people probably just give-up. That's expected in most releases when too many things go wrong. They might not post in the Unvanquished forums, because they never cared enough. They just go, "Oh stupid pre-alpha game doesn't work, meh, I'll go and play something else". It's being normal. Don't expect everyone is going to be so enthused as you are.

[Qrntz]

Commits that are significantly divergent, commits that removed valuable functionality, anything to back up your claims? Nope.



(I'm done here, dis thread is hopeless)

[/dev/humancontroller]

TremZ devs: volt, HermXIV; OpenWolf devs: dushbag.
TremZ/Unvanquished & Daemon devs: everyone else.

TremZ devs number around 9 people. OpenWolf developers include not only TheDushan, but all his allies and assistance in the wider quake community, particularly Enemy Territory.

ORLY. can you list the 9 individuals? did "teh dushbag team" increase from 1 person to many, so quickly?

The TremZ team goes by a different ideology (and that's all this really is about on both sides), they prefer to be careful, aim for quality, and plan.

WRONG. mr dushbag is teh #1 "commit shit now, test later" d00d. it is his retarded development that caused me to leave the project, followed immediately by the forking of OpenWolf.

ENGINE not being able to locate the CMakeLists.txt on one of the many tests we have done, due to a bug - which was fixed rather easily.

the engine doesn't do anything with CMakeLists.txt, you idiot.