Uncommon Base Designs

[Venkman]

My two favorite things in Tremulous are powning humans and building bases. I'd say easily 90% of my time in-game is spent attempting one or the other.

And since Niveus is one of my favorite maps (some of you may yawn at that statement but Niveus has a really brilliant layout; fluid yet maze-like with multiple access-points to upper and lower levels, making for some epic chase-sequences), consequently I've spent a lot of time trying to craft an effective Alien base there.

Now that I have one which I really like, I wanted to post the concept here for two reasons:

1.|
I was hoping to workshop my idea with you guys and maybe compile a list of other unique base suggestions.

2.|
When I'm base-experimenting, without fail I'll usually run into at least one enraged player who sees that I'm trying something different and will immediately accuse me of noob-building, without even evaluating what I've actually built.

I get this knee-jerk reaction the most when building my Niveus base. Usually because "It's not Window?! How could we possibly survive without being crammed inside a small box with one narrow access point that is constantly clogged by teammates, you awful AWFUL person?!"

I'll try to explain that Window is overrated in GPP and that, if they'd just watch what I'm actually doing, they might find that it works even better.

Believe me: As a constant builder, I KNOW how obnoxious noob-builders can be. Still, it's always smarter to first evaluate the situation. If it's obvious that what they're doing is retarded (i.e. building cades somewhere cades don't belong, Egg-ATMs, moving OM to some random spot outside an already-established base), that's one thing.

But if, say, it's the beginning of the game and your Default is notoriously bad and there's only one teammate who even spawns as a builder and they're actually BUILDING something logical, question them before you start shit, especially when all you might end up doing is distracting and possibly sacrificing your only builder.

Anyway, enough bitching. Here's my design. It's called...

The Bird
A.K.A.
"Not Window? ...How in the Fuck?!"

(*Try to contain how jealous you are of my mad drawin' skills.)

S1

[Enough remaining BP for an optional forward egg.]

s2|s3

[Enough remaining BP for an optional forward egg and booster.]



Located across a small bridge from Niveus' Alien default-base is an enclosed area containing some crates and a soda-machine. This is what I'll refer to as the "upper-base"[WHITE AREA], where the OM and most of the eggs will be housed.

The room between Default and the enclosure is the "lower-base"[GRAY AREA] where most of the active defending should take place when Humans are rushing.

Now, I like this base for a number of reasons:

-IT'S ACCESS POINTS
Though the lower-base has 3 entrances, the OM and most of the key structures are housed in the upper-base and can only be reached by a walled-in stairway and the suspended walkway leading from Default.

This requires humans without jetpacks who want to use the walkway to first climb up to the 4th floor and then work their way back down using the stairway in Default. THEN they have to make it across the walkway, which any goon in pounce-range will be more than happy knock them off of.

As for humans WITH jetpacks; they don't fair much better simply because the base's low ceiling and divided layout give them very little room for maneuvering.

-IT'S STRATEGIC LAYOUT
Then, logically, the walled-in stairway leading from lower to upper-base would seem like the easier rout. But as long as you can keep the stairway caded, humans will be forced to either...

A.)try and shoot the cade from the narrow doorway leading into lower-base and thus reveal their position early on.
OR
B.)rush in from one of the other lower entrances and trap themselves inside the stairway, setting the human up for any nearby Alien to flank.

-IT HOLDS UP WELL AGAINST A RUSH
So S1 humans should have a hard time taking out key-structures if you can keep the walkway and (more importantly) the stairway to upper-base caded. Especially if the upper-base is built so that most of the structures can't be shot from lower-base.

Now to those Window-lovers who are thinking that "Well, Window only has one entrance, so it must be even harder to access...." technically that's true.

Which means Window is also a THOUSAND TIMES harder to exit as an Alien, especially for goons and rants, making it extremely easy to pin Aliens inside their base without any way to flank and any option besides "Wait for the enemy to enter and then bleed each other as we all rush to attack them."

That one narrow entrance also requires your team to rally single-file if they ever want to rush.

Moreover, once a human is inside window, the OM is wide-open. The Bird's enclosure leaves very little room for the Human to evade while also keeping a line of sight on the OM and they usually die rather quickly or are forced to dodge back out into the lower-base and out of the OM's line-of-sight. This is even more true after the aliens have staged-up. Which brings me to...

-AFTER S2, IT GETS RIDICULOUS
First, move the OM and several eggs up to the rafters above, where you should also place your main booster. Once they're up there, the eggs are almost untouchable.

I'm not exaggerating. Almost every time I've gotten to s2 with the Bird, it has resulted in either a win or a draw, simply because of how difficult it was for the humans to keep a line of sight on the rafter-eggs above upper.

Especially if you build your eggs, cades, and trappers in a way that makes possible angles to hit from even more minute.

...Okay, I think I've rambled enough. Besides, I can talk and talk but what I'd rather do is let you guys try it for yourself and tell me what you think.

[Saliva]

I have built this base before. I have spent so much time building I have built pretty much every possible base in the default maps. The window room is superior but I prefer fun and different bases like this.

Compared to the window room it has weaknesses:

1. It has 4 entrances if you include entering from below the stairs. It means that humans can more easily sneak in and do damage. It also means that you have to spread the defense structures that means weaker overall defense.

2. Overmind can be shot from the lower level or alternatively from walkway depending on om position. It's a problem if the humans understand to exploit it and shoot the om with pulses or lucis.

3. The walkway from default is a major problem because it's an advantageous position for humans. Just like any long corridor is. Even if any buildings aren't exposed from that position it's easy to keep shooting aliens from there and force them to attack the humans there. It's especially bad if the humans manage to build a repeater there.

One important thing to note though is that 2 and 3 require some thought. The walkway route is less often taken by humans because it's not a path they are used to take. Public games tend to be quite mindless so that helps.

I think this is one of the better bases to build if not building in the window room especially because it's not well known. If it became a standard base I think people would eventually start exploiting 2 and 3.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

I have also experienced this base before in 1.1, in like 2007ish. Most of the buildables were nearly in the spots you pictured.
It failed. Why?
a) As long as tubes can be shot in a distance where they are not activated, they are useless. Take the tube on the staircase as an example.
b) Topping up, structures that can be shot from long range are extremely vulnerable. Not to mention that cade, in-game i'm sure the bridge is actually wider than the cade, and would be completely useless as humans walk next to/around it.
c) Do you really need that many eggs?
d) Cades near om don't block the overmind frm being shot at or being sawed.
e) If d is not valid because the overmind is actually above, then the cades are even more useless than ever. I realized this because of the trapper being behind the overmind, it would do nothing but shoot the overmind.
f) Point #1,2,3 from previous guy
g) Honestly, i'm sure the space occupied on the "ground level" can be covered by about two nades with an exception of the cade(s) on the bridge and the ones above. Having the lucifercannon/flamer come, aliens would fail to even come out without dying to splash or flamers.

I find the second top level room from the main staircase room is more safer than this one.

[Venkman]

All good points, though I have a few rebuttals:

@Saliva:
-You can avoid getting sniped down the walkway if you utilize lower base's walls (which are out of Default's line of sight) during your approach. Honestly, I've yet to have a real problem with humans firing from A-default while building this base. Also, it takes quite a long time for s1 humans to even get up there if they're coming through A-default.

-I like to use several cades as a buffer to prevent humans in lower base from shooting the OM. If you build it so that the OM is slightly elevated, resting between the two crate stacks with it's back to the wall, then humans in lower-base can only shoot it from the narrow doorway. Which is why my s1 base has three cades lined up between that one angle and the OM in upper.

Also, the Bird has two places to build unnadable eggs with an s1 Granger, which is not possible in window.

Though, what really bugs me about window is how easy it is for s2-3 Humans to pin Aliens inside. Also once a human is in, he has a perfect line of sight to the OM, where as the bird's upper-base is much harder for humans to dance around while maintaining their attack on the OM.

A couple of well-positioned cades between it and the stairway can make for a tough nut to crack.

Now, all of my research has been conducted on GPP US-1, so that's always a factor. But by my count, in the past week I've attempted to build the bird 12 times and 10 of those times the game ended in either victory or draw (7/3). Of those rounds, not all of them were perfectly balanced matches.

 Though, a lot of the times that we won, it was against humans who knew how to rush.  And yet still, using the layout I posted above, I would usually go the entire round without losing a single egg (except for the ones I deconned myself, of course.)

You could be right about the base simply being unfamiliar, Saliva, but that only adds to its value right now. You should try the base again sometime using the strategy I laid out here and tell me what you think.

Thanks for the feedback. Also, if you have any other unique base suggestions, I am all-ears.

@Ultra Random Virus:

Those cades on the floor of upper in s2 are to prevent the humans from getting directly under the rafters. The OM itself is moved to the rafters at s2 (though my picture probably didn't depict that well enough. That trapper is below the OM, on the wall, aimed between the two cades at the upper entrance from the stairs.

Also, those s1 tubes on stairs are hidden in shadow. It's not fool-proof, but anyone entering from below the stairs won't see them until they're up there.

The Cade blocking default is not totally necissary but it does indeed block passing humans. I swear. Try it. I just did like 15 times

As for the s1 cades in upper, they block the OM from being shot by humans in lower-base. At s2, once the OM and eggs are raised to the rafters above upper-base, really the only way to hit them directly is from upper-base. The trappers in lower are to prevent them from (hopefully) reaching this far.

You can switch out one of the cades for another trapper in lower base facing the beneath-stairs entrance (which is something I started doing last night.)

Also, remember, you saw this base fail in 1.1 when Lucis where much more ridiculous and could easily spam a base to death. That's why in 1.1, I always built in window just like everybody else. Now, though, it's too damn predictable and boring. Since GPP, I've seen Window fail just as much as I've seen it succeed, if not more.

[janev]

Ultimately a good base allows the players to do their part and win the game. Alien bases are to a higher degree supporting constructs than human bases. This stems from the mobility and regeneration of aliens. The alien base support the players with poison and healing. Sometimes they also give the team map control, impeding human movement at key junctions. There are two styles of alien building. Cluster fuck everything in a tight room or spread it around the map to give your team control. The cluster fuck + forward booster method is a hybrid. Both can work well if the team is up to it. A well built cluster fuck is arguably harder to crack with a solo rush (exception is egg spam on transit). That makes the cluster fuck more useful in a public game. The spread out supporting base becomes more powerful as your team coordination increases. Clusterfucking also works well during sudden death.

Your statistics are broken in that they suffer from inverse selection. The only way to successfully build some of the more creative bases is if the teams are skewed in your favor. I can with some degree of certainty say I have never lost a game in which I have built a human base inside an alien base. Realistically though that is probably not the optimal base location, I just happened to have a well coordinated team off assholes that felt like goofing around. You know because building teslas around the aliens eggs is kind of a douchebag thing to do. 

A weak base in a strong strategic position can beat a strong base in a weak strategic position. Alien bases should strive to make the humans walk long distances unsupported and human bases should strive to give easy access to most of the map.   

[Meisseli]

I'd say two to three lucisuits spamming the default alien base walkway would decimate that base quite easily.

But anyway bases other than window tend to make Niveus games a lot more fun.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

@Ultra Random Virus:

[1] Those cades on the floor of upper in s2 are to prevent the humans from getting directly under the rafters.

[2] Also, those s1 tubes on stairs are hidden in shadow. It's not fool-proof, but anyone entering from below the stairs won't see them until they're up there.

[3]The Cade blocking default is not totally necissary but it does indeed block passing humans. I swear. Try it. I just did like 15 times

[4]As for the s1 cades in upper, they block the OM from being shot by humans in lower-base. At s2, once the OM and eggs are raised to the rafters above upper-base, really the only way to hit them directly is from upper-base. The trappers in lower are to prevent them from (hopefully) reaching this far.

[5]You can switch out one of the cades for another trapper in lower base facing the beneath-stairs entrance (which is something I started doing last night.)

Also, remember, you saw this base fail in 1.1 when Lucis where much more ridiculous and could easily spam a base to death. That's why in 1.1, I always built in window just like everybody else. Now, though, it's too damn predictable and boring. Since GPP, I've seen Window fail just as much as I've seen it succeed, if not more.

Please define what 'upper' and 'lower' is in your case. My comments below mean that 'upper' is the plank stuff, and 'lower' is the normal ground, or below the bridge.
[1]I'm sure a human would kill it before they get in there.
[2] r_gamma 2. In gpp and 1.1, but not unvanquished, even structures not lit by light are still visible.
[3]Tried it, still got past. Used both 1.1 and gpp qvms, obviously the result is the same.
[4]You know trappers can be killed faster than the cade, even if its behind the cade? And trappers do not shoot through cades either.
[5]Im sure that a trapper is useless without anything to support it. If im correct, it is aiming beneath the stairs?
______________

If i can fix my niveus, give me the layout file, 1.1 preferably because i dont really know if gpp has a loadlayout admin command... then ill record myself killing the base as fast as possible. If my niveus is not fixed by then, get someone else to record the demo of them killing the base. If i/[other] can kill the base within 4 minutes with only 2000 credits to begin with, and the human base in the window room for ease to walk, then i'd consider your layout 'not worth it'.

[Venkman]

Virus:
You're assumption about what "upper" and "lower" are is accurate.

I'd love to see a good run at the base recorded and if you wouldn't mind, I'd really appreciate it. If anything, it'll help me improve the design.

[/dev/humancontroller]

You're assumption [...] is [...]

D:

[Venkman]

Oh, shit...



The sad thing is that I'm editor. Thanks a lot, America's public-school system.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

Virus:
You're assumption about what "upper" and "lower" are is accurate.

I'd love to see a good run at the base recorded and if you wouldn't mind, I'd really appreciate it. If anything, it'll help me improve the design.

Ok i managed to fix my niveus, some other gay map [forgot the name] had textures from niveus, and whoever made the map copied it over and must've renamed a .tga to a .jpg which screwed up the whole thing.
anyways, which should i send you
Gpp format - Main differences between 1.1 and gpp is the damage done by bases and the health of cades [300], painsaw is a lot weaker [to me seems t take too long to saw an om] and such and such.
1.1 format - Cades can be killed in one shot with luci, painsaw kills om in like 5 seconds...

It would help if you would make a layout file so you build the base as you want, not as i do it because not everyone builds exactly the same. Don't forget to specify which version of trem you send!

edit: UV is a bit dodgy, the server freezes after the first game.