Author Topic: Parpax  (Read 76252 times)

ULTRA Random ViruS

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2012, 02:02:41 pm »
I found a major bug
congratulations, you've found yourself !
Wait, is there like a ... pak limit, where when X is reached, new ones cancel out old ones? It may be related to the blackout bug that i have...

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2012, 04:23:11 pm »
is there like a ... pak limit, where when X is reached, new ones cancel out old ones?
as has been said over a trillion times, there is an operating system limit that limits the number of open files by a program to ~500 by default (true for all systems that i've encountered (eg., FreeBSD, Windows XP)). Q3-based games keep pk3 files open for fast access. this means that at most ~500 pk3 files will be "visible" to the engine.

there is a patch out there that increases the limit, go find it.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 04:25:41 pm by /dev/humancontroller »

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2012, 07:10:57 pm »
I'm currently preparing for a test and will continue working on Parpax in two weeks. Since enhancing the map with the new path means some effort I will probably release Beta 4 by the end of October.

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2012, 01:31:29 pm »
Q3-based games keep pk3 files open for fast access. this means that at most ~500 pk3 files will be "visible" to the engine.
Deleting most of the obsolete Nalf######.pk3s, rcz unlimited etc. works for me.

@viech: What changes are there? Here is my opinion for change:
>With enough players, the game turns into human-bias. Maybe its the ramp in the human default...
>There needs to be another alternative pathway to human default with an exception of ele, vent, and the staircase. Currently it is faster for me to take the staircase as a marauder to get back to base rather than using the lift. And as for humans, it takes a long time both ways, which can be irritating for small games.
>A vent to the human base can't even fit dretches probably because you didn't expand the space as the vent leans downwards (boundryboxes do not rotate)

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2012, 04:56:13 pm »
@viech: What changes are there?
The following stuff is still on my list or already done:
  • The elevator will move much faster
  • I will add a new path which is going to be independent of the current regions. It will connect long hall to unnamed hall and thus be a direct connection of the secondary entrances of both default bases.
  • Both the lower and upper floor are too open which rewards camping. I will close the path from upper storage to unnamed hall and the path from lower storage to lower fork. lower fork, dome room and stairs entry might be redone in order to make the path to the stairs shorter.
  • I already replaced a lot of textures, Beta 4 will only depend on a few exterior resources, if any
  • Human players will be able to jump on all boxes, regardless of their FPS
Apart from that:
  • I will change a few things in elevator shaft (there's a lot of leftover stuff, for example it doesn't make any sense that the ladder is at the side of the doors, it should rather be at the side of elevator room).
  • The hole at the top of the elevator car will move to the middle of the car. This should lead to less humans being squished at the corner above the door and will make it harder for aliens to leave the car after attacking incoming humans.
  • The stairs will be connected to ventilation room. I don't know what this is good for but they are already next to each other and if I'm lucky it will add some relevance to the stairs. It can probably be used to escape from rants.
  • The unnamed hall will get some sort of vis-blocker in order to separate the alien default's front and side entrances even more.

>With enough players, the game turns into human-bias. Maybe its the ramp in the human default...
I really don't see a human biased map. The human default isn't as weak as on many default maps but it has significant security holes. Non-advanced maras and lisks can sneak-attack turrets by entering through the pipe shafts, advanced marauders can even zap buildings that are cluttered on the pipes above the default armory (I've seen a mara zap a DC, Node and Turret this way in a single attack without taking any damage).
The fact that a small number of players means alien-biased and a big number of players means human-biased looks like a tremulous-specific problem to me - especially on public servers, where the necessary teamplay among humans is more likely to happen when the map is cluttered with players. On the other hand, more players usually means more camprants. While I don't want to anticipate teamplay I'll try my best to make Parpax a worse map for campers.

Speaking balance in general, I like maps that are easy to learn but hard to master. While I agree that Parpax turned out more complex than I wanted it to be in the first place I think that I managed to do a good job on the second part. I built a lot of shortcuts and security holes that need some skill and knowledge of the map to exploit. Many players haven't learned them yet and as soon as they do it will affect balance, making it hard for me to foresee any bias. For example, few players know that humans can easily outpace camprants by flying on the pipes at alien default. When more players find out there will probably be less tyrants on defense and thus less draws.

>There needs to be another alternative pathway to human default with an exception of ele, vent, and the staircase. Currently it is faster for me to take the staircase as a marauder to get back to base rather than using the lift. And as for humans, it takes a long time both ways, which can be irritating for small games.
This is exactly what the new path should be. :)
(With a little training, (advanced) maras can also use the vents to go up!)

>A vent to the human base can't even fit dretches probably because you didn't expand the space as the vent leans downwards (boundryboxes do not rotate)
Uhm, I think I already fixed that. The last time I played (the bleeding edge version) even humans could crouch through there.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2012, 08:08:34 pm »
I really don't see a human biased map.
too much open spaces, halls too wide, and beveled walls fuck wallwalk.  

ive been playing this map quite a bit, and also exploring it on my own.  the layout is good, it's just the details.


oh, and you might want to un-straighten the long straight halls leading into the alien default.  quite a few humans have the nasty habit of sitting at the end of any long, straight, hall on any map, and just spamming fire down said hall.  the cover isnt too bad, but it is not enough, the halls are so wide defensive structures are next to useless, and ambushes are ill advised.... too much space to cover before you can conceivably do any damage at all.

edit:  what i mean to say about beveled walls fucking wallwalk is this:  the range of an alien's attacks is constant.  the way the bevel positions you what would be inside the geometry of a flat wall reduces your range.  compound that with your already too-wide halls, and you have a map very unkind to things smaller than a mara.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:16:43 pm by RAKninja-Decepticon »
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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2012, 09:54:53 am »
>With enough players, the game turns into human-bias. Maybe its the ramp in the human default...
I really don't see a human biased map. The human default isn't as weak as on many default maps but it has significant security holes. Non-advanced maras and lisks can sneak-attack turrets by entering through the pipe shafts, advanced marauders can even zap buildings that are cluttered on the pipes above the default armory (I've seen a mara zap a DC, Node and Turret this way in a single attack without taking any damage).

Apparently adv marauders can't get into the human base through vents. They don't fit.

(With a little training, (advanced) maras can also use the vents to go up!)
*With no training... just aim where to star the jump, then holding a directional key will work in both 1.1, gpp and unv.


Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2012, 02:57:18 pm »
Apparently adv marauders can't get into the human base through vents. They don't fit.
Yes but they can get close enough to zap if buildings on the pipe above default armory are too close to the hole. A well placed turret however will shoot anything going through that hole and can't be zapped (you can even place such a turret on stage one by jumping on the RC and then jumping towards the pipes).
Advanced marauders shouldn't be able to go through the holes, that would just be frustrating for humans and force them to camp.

oh, and you might want to un-straighten the long straight halls leading into the alien default.  quite a few humans have the nasty habit of sitting at the end of any long, straight, hall on any map, and just spamming fire down said hall.  the cover isnt too bad, but it is not enough, the halls are so wide defensive structures are next to useless, and ambushes are ill advised.... too much space to cover before you can conceivably do any damage at all.
As I said, Unnamed Hall will be un-straightened. Since Long Hall will have two ways for aliens to flee (plus the hole towards the Pipe Shafts), has plenty of obstacles and is rather thin I'm planning to leave it long for now. The path from Ventilation Hall through Octagon Hall inside the alien base might need some obstacles but I also think of it as a reward for humans that fly up the vents or use the stairs. I like the stairs and would love to see them remain in use by both teams when the new path arrives. Lower Storage and Upper Storage might need some obstacles, too, to favor attackers using the elevator.

what i mean to say about beveled walls fucking wallwalk is this:  the range of an alien's attacks is constant.  the way the bevel positions you what would be inside the geometry of a flat wall reduces your range.  compound that with your already too-wide halls, and you have a map very unkind to things smaller than a mara.
What halls are too wide? Other people told me that halls were to thin, so I'm a little confused now. Maybe it depends on your perspective: If alien players think they are too wide to wallwalk and humans think they are too thin to dodge they seem to be both balanced and frustrating for both teams. Maybe it would be best to have alien-favored halls on the lower floor and human-favored halls on the upper floor? I admit this is something I never thought about in the design process but I'll look more closely at it when changing stuff.

RAKninja-Decepticon

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2012, 06:17:34 am »

As I said, Unnamed Hall will be un-straightened. Since Long Hall will have two ways for aliens to flee (plus the hole towards the Pipe Shafts), has plenty of obstacles and is rather thin I'm planning to leave it long for now. The path from Ventilation Hall through Octagon Hall inside the alien base might need some obstacles but I also think of it as a reward for humans that fly up the vents or use the stairs. I like the stairs and would love to see them remain in use by both teams when the new path arrives. Lower Storage and Upper Storage might need some obstacles, too, to favor attackers using the elevator.

What halls are too wide? Other people told me that halls were to thin, so I'm a little confused now. Maybe it depends on your perspective: If alien players think they are too wide to wallwalk and humans think they are too thin to dodge they seem to be both balanced and frustrating for both teams. Maybe it would be best to have alien-favored halls on the lower floor and human-favored halls on the upper floor? I admit this is something I never thought about in the design process but I'll look more closely at it when changing stuff.
sorry, i hadent been paying attention to the location names ingame, so i didnt really know which halls were on the to-do list.  in specific i was referring to the hallway that intersects the elevator alcove, and the hall parallel to it on the right.  especially that one on the right.  the other is much to wide for the start of the game, though as the game progresses (and larger aliens are available) it becomes less of a problem.  i guess in that light, it's really fine, i just dont like its proximity to the alien base.  i'd be happier with that whole elevator setup a little closer to the "middle" of the map, as opposed to right outside my front door.

it's really hard to gauge the width of most of the halls.  most of them have irregular geometry.  off the top of my head, the beveled walls on any hallway make the hall "too wide" while at the same time keeping it "too narrow" for non-wallwalkers.  that might be part of the reason you are getting conflicting reports.  it's too narrow for anyone on the floor, and too wide for anyone on the wall.

another example is the one parallel to the one that intersects the elevator.  it has all those boxes and pillars on the left, but the right is totally clean of any obstruction (till you get around the door into the alien base).  the only wall available for walking is the one with no cover.  just about anywhere you can build a defensive structure is exposed to a point where a human out of the structure's range can get an easy kill.  and while the left side of the hall is "open", its not really useful for anything, especially at any time passed hs1.  this leads to the hall being both too narrow, and too wide.

oh, "left" and "right" are relative to leaving the alien base.  all in all, it's a pretty good map, it just makes use of some of my pet peeves (what ive been telling you about)
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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2012, 04:58:25 am »
As I said, Unnamed Hall will be un-straightened. Since Long Hall will have two ways for aliens to flee (plus the hole towards the Pipe Shafts), has plenty of obstacles and is rather thin I'm planning to leave it long for now.
What annoys me about that hall is that the obstacles - only advantage humans. The only time i go near those obsticals is when i'm rushing the alien base while someone comes at me. And the straighter half is, well, long. If i see pan playing humans, i won't join aliens. [his md aim is suppositely good]http://aussieassault.net/statistics/player/2549

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2012, 07:10:12 pm »
another example is the one parallel to the one that intersects the elevator. (Note by Viech: This is Unnamed Hall) it has all those boxes and pillars on the left, but the right is totally clean of any obstruction (till you get around the door into the alien base).  the only wall available for walking is the one with no cover.  just about anywhere you can build a defensive structure is exposed to a point where a human out of the structure's range can get an easy kill.  and while the left side of the hall is "open", its not really useful for anything, especially at any time passed hs1.  this leads to the hall being both too narrow, and too wide.
As I said, Unnamed Hall will be un-straightened. Since Long Hall will have two ways for aliens to flee (plus the hole towards the Pipe Shafts), has plenty of obstacles and is rather thin I'm planning to leave it long for now.
What annoys me about that hall is that the obstacles - only advantage humans. The only time i go near those obsticals is when i'm rushing the alien base while someone comes at me. And the straighter half is, well, long. If i see pan playing humans, i won't join aliens. [his md aim is suppositely good]http://aussieassault.net/statistics/player/2549
I assume your second comment is also related to Unnamed Hall, even though you're quoting me talking about Long Hall (the hall at the human default's side entrance). Correct me if you are actually criticising Long Hall!

I thought of Unnamed Hall as a nice place to build trappers and hidden eggs but you are probably right. As my attempts to unstraighten it currently make it look even more cluttered/chaotic to the point that it breaks the overall style of the map I'm actually really open to replacing it completely. I also noticed that the pipes on the floor close to alien default are tyrant-killers and that wallwalking is a pita on both sides of the hall. I will leave the small storage area in Ventilation Hall but replace Unnamed Hall with a new region that has a smoother, non-straight design. It will probably form a delta between Ventilation Hall, Strange Machine (alien default) and the new path that leads down to Long Hall. I wish I could do proper gameplay testing before detailing all that stuff. ;D

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2012, 05:25:15 pm »
Since I was busy and haven't released a new Beta for a while I decided to release my current working version, Beta 3E. It includes a concept for the new path (starts at long hall, forks towards alien base and ventilation hall) and a handful of changes and bugfixes mainly to the elevator and the upper area.

Download Beta 3 Revision E

If you feel like the gameplay improvements outweight the poor graphics of the path concept feel free to put it on your server, the pk3 is as clean as any other release.

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2012, 12:39:53 pm »
Download Beta 3 Revision G

Beta 4 is on its way. :)

Pax

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2012, 12:32:54 pm »
best map  8)

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 3)
« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2012, 12:43:18 pm »
best map  8)
Yeah, I made it just for you Pax! :)

Btw.:
Download Beta 3 Revision I

Beta 4 is imminent…

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 4)
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2012, 12:45:37 am »
Beta 4 is done and already online on the official GPP servers! :)
For this release I included an alternative layout named aggressive. On aggressive, both teams have rather weak bases: The humans start at lower storage, the aliens have their default base at upper storage. If the layout turns out to be both balanced and fun it will replace the classic layout (humans at power distributor, aliens at strange machine) in the next release. Layouts should be loaded at random but unfortunately GPP has no way of voting for a specific layout.

Beta 4 Changelog
  • New areas: "O-stairs", "tank room", "hangar". They form a third connection between the lower and the upper floor (thanks to Menace and `Ishq).
  • The area "stairs entry" has been replaced with new areas ("missing tank room", "windowless room").
  • "upper sorage" now connects to the new "tank room" instead of "unnamed hall". The latter has been removed.
  • "ventilation room" now connects to the stairs (new name: "D-stairs").
  • The elevator car and shaft have been modified. The hole in the ceiling of the car has been centered and the car is now open at the back. The car moves a lot faster.
  • The girders in lower storage have been removed and the room isn't as tall anymore. The door towards "lower fork" has been removed, the latter has been renamed to "unnamed room" since it doesn't fork anymore.
  • The huge shutter doors between power distributor and lower storage open significantly faster.
  • I've added an alternative layout named "aggressive" where aliens start in upper storage and humans in lower storage. If it works out it might become the default layout.
  • More textures have been replaced and included in the pk3 file.
  • Lights have been scaled up by 10%.
  • Probably a lot of bugfixes and minor improvments that I forgot about.

Download Parpax Beta 4
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 12:58:21 am by Viech »

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 4)
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2014, 12:09:01 am »
A few more recent screenshots.













your face

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Re: Parpax
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2014, 05:39:23 am »
i really like it A+
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