Warning: A lot more words have been written beyond this point! Be prepared to read carefully! Also it seems that I have exceeded the character limit for a post, so I will attempt to divide it into two posts.First of all, this text seems nearly similar to the text that can be found in the thread 'web series whatever (..)'
How is it similar? My post on this thread is a reflection on past and current problems of Tremulous, and from that reflection offers possible solutions and a possible direction for the Tremulous and Unvanquished communities. The thread I have posted about acidtu.be's web series (linked here:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=17477.0) is to provide information about a fun project we are working on, as well as info on how people can apply if that is a project they might be interested in being a part of. The only thing that the text of those two different posts have in common is that I wrote them.
Well believe is not knowledge, okay.
Knowledge is belief with justification. When it comes to understanding reality, no1 can find absolute truth, and nothing in our universe is provable. The only system of understanding that works with proper proofs is mathematics, because it deals with proofs about conditional truths and does not require those conditional truths to be the absolute reality of our universe. If you haven't already, I suggest that you look into
epistemology, it is a very interesting and useful branch of philosophy.
In my post on this thread, I have presented some justifications for my belief quoted above. However, I am open to any sound arguments and/or evidence that suggests a different reason for Tremulous' problems.
It is not important to me if I am right or wrong, but it is important to me that we improve our understanding of reality, so that we can have a means to improve our situation in reality. I am not afraid to make mistakes, we learn the most from our mistakes. If no1 risked the possibility of being wrong, nothing would get done, and our species would have gone extinct a long time ago.
I disagree. I do go there alot.
What do you disagree with, my premises or my conclusion, or both? You need to be clearer for me to understand the nature of your disagreement. Please elaborate.
Thing is that it is an old game and playerbase is dwindling. That is a normal progress and i have no real problem with this. I had alot of fun with this game but at some point it is over and thats maybe for the best.
If you believe that trem and its communities may be over soon and that may be for the best, why not just move on to something else yourself, rather than being so opposed to others trying to solve problems and attempt to help the communities survive and have a thriving future? If you have accepted the death of Tremulous, you have nothing to lose if we fail at our efforts, and your time is not being wasted.
Or are you afraid that we may succeed? If that is the case, I am sorry to disappoint you, but whining will not make us give up.
Or perhaps you are a sadistic troll to some degree looking to elicit negative reactions from people. If that is also the case, I'm afraid that I will just defeat your irrationality with reason and your whining will still not negatively affect me.
Your possible motives for your previous post is not really important, so I shall continue.
Product? This is a free game Sir and not a product you can buy. Looks odd to reading your selling-text. I don't see the point - stuff and nonsense.
Even though Tremulous and Unvanquished are not games that players have to directly pay money to play, people can choose to play and/or develop Tremulous and/or Unvanquished, or they can choose to
spend their finite time on one or more of the many competing open source games. People do pay for Tremulous, Unvanquished, and any other open source project by giving time, effort, and providing services to such open source projects (some even pay money by renting game servers, renting website servers, etc...). If people stop playing and developing (modding and map making included) an open source project, then that project would be completely dead (Tremulous is not at that point yet, even though it has been heading there).
Business is all about establishing and maintaining relationships in a competitive environment that result in benefits to all parties involved. So many business principals, such as marketing and customer service, do still apply to the success of open source projects like Tremulous and Unvanquished.
I mean yes 'criticizing is easy, doing stuff not' but we all know that. Is this meant to fill up your post?
I try my best to make no assumptions on what others know. There are many simple but important concepts that should be obvious but are ignored. With that said, my statement of "It is very easy to criticize a project, however it is not an easy task to make a project work", is very applicable to this thread and even more applicable to your previous post on this thread, so it is a very important point.
I am always amazed at how some people complain so much with the apparent goal of making the case for giving up about any project, rather than offering any real solutions. Constructive criticism is healthy and essential for a project, however the complaints from the whiners I am talking about are neither constructive, healthy, nor essential.
Those same people also usually passionately oppose anyone who suggests solutions or makes efforts to improve projects, even though the people attempting improvement do not ask anything in return from the whiners nor force the whiners to be a part of that project.
While this amazes me, I accept this as a natural problem for any project that needs to be taken into consideration. Those whiners are not unique but rather manifestations of a destructive force, which is why I do my best to not take it personally. This destructive whining is one of the bad side effects of free speech that has to be endured in order to experience the far greater positive benefits of free speech. I still have hope in humanity because I know that while the whiners are very noisy, they are a minority.
Well i don't judge and i don't want to judge with you so yes, nice text-filler.
The judgement I was referring to was the implication from the original poster that Unvanquished has failed. It is too soon to make that determination.
But seriously, what are you talking about? Unv is not done? Yes all know so? First u butt-lick Tremulous, then Unvanquished and then you pretend to be someone of massive scale who can judge and evaluate unvanquished? To be hornest i know the trem devs and some unv but i certainly don't know you so who are you and why should anyone listen to someone ordinary. You have this *I know better - attitude* What does qualify you to do so?
What you are doing here is committing a very common logical fallacy called
ad hominem. Rather than attacking the soundness of my statements, you are attacking me personally. The merits of my opinions, suggestions, and arguments are independent from me and would have the same value if they came from anyone else regardless of their authority.
Just because one person, who just registered on these forums today (
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=31722,
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=31722;sa=statPanel), happens to not know me, doesn't mean that I do not have the right to offer my input, just like how that person has the right to make his/her remarks. I am offering my input and suggestions to the other people who want to actually do something (who are many), let them judge for themselves the usefulness of my statements. I have no interest in taking on the likely futile task to convince a close minded individual of what is likely reality, they are not the intended recipients of my arguments.
I don't think that Unvanquished is even near Tremulous in any way. You imply that Unv WILL DO SAME MISTAKES LIKE TREM but i can't see that.
Unvanquished is unique, but it originates from Tremulous and still shares a lot of fundamental concepts. Also, I have in no way implied that Unvanquished will make the same mistakes as Tremulous, but rather I have suggested that Unvanquished should learn from the mistakes of Tremulous. Of course if those past mistakes are ignored, they can be repeated.
Ok you want to help them but what qualifies you to do so? Haughtiness.
Here you have committed another excellent example of the fallacy of ad hominem.
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I think that unv is not tremulous. Afaik unv wants to be something different.
Yes it is different, but that doesn't mean that the Tremulous communities can't enjoy a possible future being a part of the Unvanquished community, especially once it becomes practical for modding. But also I have been trying to make the point that becoming a part of the Unvanquished community doesn't have to mean abandoning Tremulous, we can enjoy both games for what each has to offer.
I play 1.1 often and there are maybe 30 players left so i doubt there is a big communitiy that can hop over to unv.
On Tremulous GPP there are still over 50 regular players and more occasional players. On Tremulous 1.1 there are still hundreds of players. These players are not all on Trem at the same time, the Earth is round resulting in different time zones, and every1 has their own irl schedules they have to work around. You have underestimated the sizes of our communities.
Why would they and why should they? It is a different game and that is good. 'We could provide' No i totally disagree. You are not able to control a community as you wishes. I never heard of you so why should i go from 1.1 to unv? Because u said so? Cmon.
As I've mentioned, acidtu.be is working on several projects that will allow downloading, installing, and playing on and between Tremulous 1.1, Tremulous GPP, and Unvanquished seamlessly with as few difficulties as possible. Players would have the options to play all three games without any practical boundaries. People are not forced to have these options from acidtu.be, but I believe that most people will like it, and the merits of those projects will be demonstrated as the projects are released.
Even this sounds like unv has no nice devs only you have. What?
Unvanquished has excellent devs, I have said nothing to suggest otherwise. However, there are still excellent devs in the Tremulous 1.1 and Tremulous GPP communities that Unvanquished does not have but can benefit from if those devs decide to work on Unvanquished.
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I don't know about your community but u handle it like it is some goods for trade.
Again, business principals are applicable to Tremulous and Unvanquished for guiding its success as well as the success of the communities. We do have the abilities to increase the odds of success, success is not entirely based on luck. In this respect, our communities are the customers, and it is the games that are products. But don't distort my recognition of this reality to suggest that my interest in our communities are a means to an end, I have many close friends in our communities and in a way they are like an extended family to me.
This post continues in my next post...