A couple ideas

[Undeference]

Disclaimer: I don't want Tremulous to be more like XXX (unless XXX is Tremulous).

These were just some things I was thinking about today I thought might be interesting (should I be slightly concerned that I spend this much time thinking about Tremulous when I'm not playing it?). These "things" are ideas relevant to the lcannon, chaingun, and human and alien radar stuff.


Lucifer Cannon
The luci is primarily a charge weapon. Part of my idea is to make it have no secondary shot. The same thing could be duplicated by only holding the primary trigger for a certain amount of time. This would remove any complaints about "fast lucying".
If luci is entirely a charge weapon, I think overloading should be allowed. Instead of just backfiring when the trigger is held too long, the shot can get a larger charge (bear with me -- this idea ties in with all the others for the luci).
As a means to prevent massively powered luci blasts, it will still backfire if it overheats. Instead of a specified amount of time between blasts, the lcannon will get "hot" with each shot (depending on the charge), and should "cool off" between shots. If you fire shots too rapidly or fire a shot charged too much, and then you try to fire again, the entire energy of the blast will explode in your face. (Optionally, you will have to replace your lcannon at the armoury for a new one.) The luci alarm would be used to indicate the bounds of safe operation: when it begins charging above the highest "safe" charge and when it begins to get too hot.

I think it would be interesting if luci blasts accelerated as they travelled, with a higher rate of acceleration for larger blasts. Additionally, because it's an energy/radiation weapon, there should be no "impact" (or corresponding splash damage -- I address this too). (The full remaining blast will still be "absorbed" by aliens [or humans] in the way.)

Finally, it would really be awesome if luci shots decayed as they travelled. I think the rate of decay should depend on the charge of the blast. (The higher the charge, the faster the decay -- an overcharged blast will completely decay earlier than a minimally charged blast). As the charge decays, it gets smaller, until eventually there is no more shot.
The decay would replace splash damage, and because a higher charge decays more, nearby aliens (or humans) would take damage from just being near a luci blast (but substantially less damage than the full charge). I figure that the decay from a massively overcharged shot would fry nearby dretches, but as the shot will decay extremely rapidly, the dretches have to be very close.

I think that this would make there be a substantial learning curve for the lcannon, and varying strategies for its use. Additionally, this should (hopefully) pretty much eliminate lucifer spam. (But in reality, I just want to see the luci blasts fade and eventually disappear as they travel faster and faster down a hallway. That's definitely worth buying a better video card for .)


Chaingun
I thought about the chaingun for a while and have come to the conclusion that (if I understand things correctly) it is a very bad weapon for the humans. As I understand it, humans are supposed to work as a team. The chaingun discourages this, I think.
1. It is highly inaccurate and hits nearby teammates.
2. Its fast rate of fire practically encourages camping. 90% of the chaingunners I have seen are always either right near their base or running back to base for more ammo.
3. With a group of other players, the chaingunner only really serves to camp outside the alien base spamming their exit, hoping to get some lucky kills. It isn't particularly good against buildings (unless you're standing right against them) and it injures your teammates (with friendly fire) instead of protecting them.
And lag always seems to follow closely behind the chaingun, whether the wielder is laggy, or it makes everyone else lag.

If the chaingun is replaced, I would suggest a weapon designed primarily for suppressive fire. It could fire slightly slower than the rifle (but faster than the prifle), louder (I'm thinking of FAMAS here), do a bit more damage, come with a few more clips than the rifle, and be a bit less accurate. It would be ideal against dretch swarms and marauders, and be a decent mid-range weapon for base attacks (more effective than the lgun at close range, about the same at long range, with the best target being the overmind [because of its size]).


Radar
I have a couple ideas for radar enhancement, including something that I have personally wanted: the ability to detect your own teammates and buildings effectively (and tell them apart from the other team's).

Presumably, the helmet detects aliens from their heat (using infrared). Humans would be able to see a difference between teammates and enemies based on whether they have radio units (friendlies do) or not (enemies do not). However, with range, infrared gets less accurate. Also, looking at just heat doesn't give a clear picture. Instead of seeing individual enemies, a human would see a blob of heat. He wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a dretch swarm, a tyrant, and an overmind. (I figure that the only alien structures that give off heat are the overmind, eggs, and maybe hives give off heat.)
Human buildings should have radio transmitters to help indicate if a base is under attack (also, there is nothing worse than your base being moved but not knowing where).

The alien structures are alive and the aliens can evolve practically at will. This indicates that the aliens know something more about life than the humans. It only seems naturaly that their life-detection measures would be more accurate. My idea is that the aliens can detect levels of life (or the speed of a heartbeat). They can pinpoint exactly where living things are, accurately, and detect differences in their life status than other creatures'.
Likewise, the aliens can detect their own buildings, teammates, and humans, and differenciate them all. When any of these is injured, it is struggling, and is more emphasized on the display. When something is dying, it slowly fades out of existence.

The display of the helmet will fade with distance (it's only accurate to a certain range), but the alien's have no such inaccuracy: they can either detect life (up to a certain range), or they cannot. Because the humans detect heat, they should be able to see luci blasts on their display (as the blast travels, it emits energy), and because the aliens detect life in some more biological manner, they can see the bees (or whatever) from the hives. The luci blast on the helmet should be much brighter than any life and interfere with the display of actual life as it travels. The aliens should be able to differenciate between alien, human, and bee.


What do you think? (Flames welcome.)

[kevlarman]

i think that your ideas are interesting (to say the least), but it probably won't happen because the devs have said that they don't want to make such drastic changes. the radar change sounds like it gives aliens a bit too much of an advantage. the luci change... depending on various coefficients, can make it useless, or it could make it overpowered, though it would be interesting to make several shots be in the same spot at the same time.

[Juno]

the radar is fine and the game is balanced


chaingun is fine for humans. best weapon to take on adv goons and tyrants methinks


the radar for both humans and aliens has a limit to its range already

[Ksempac]

Chaingun
I thought about the chaingun for a while and have come to the conclusion that (if I understand things correctly) it is a very bad weapon for the humans. As I understand it, humans are supposed to work as a team. The chaingun discourages this, I think.
1. It is highly inaccurate and hits nearby teammates.
2. Its fast rate of fire practically encourages camping. 90% of the chaingunners I have seen are always either right near their base or running back to base for more ammo.
3. With a group of other players, the chaingunner only really serves to camp outside the alien base spamming their exit, hoping to get some lucky kills. It isn't particularly good against buildings (unless you're standing right against them) and it injures your teammates (with friendly fire) instead of protecting them.
And lag always seems to follow closely behind the chaingun, whether the wielder is laggy, or it makes everyone else lag.

OMG honestly i was too lazy to read the 2 others ideas, but i cant miss that one. The Chaingun is my favorite weapon and one of the deadliest in the game. From S1 to S3 it allows you to go Rambo all alone. The only thing that prevents a good chaingunner to destroy the alien base (provided the alien teams doesnt have a skilled player) is that it is loosy to destroy the buildings.
You can go 1vs1 against all aliens classes (yeah including tyrants) with Chaingun. Its fairly accurate if you do know how to use it (dont just keep MOUSE1 down until you dont have anymore bullets).
About the camping near alien base...you must be joking, or speaking about games in which humans were already winning. With only 300 bullets, you dont camp near alien base with the chaingun. There are far better weapons for that (Pulse rifle if you wanna stay here for a while, or Lucy if you re here to damage the base)

Actually, what you say about people using chainguns seems to me like what campers would say. To see the skilled players who arent afraid to go alone and manage to get some kills without feeding, you must leave your base from time to time...

[Howitzer]

Chaingun
I thought about the chaingun for a while and have come to the conclusion that (if I understand things correctly) it is a very bad weapon for the humans. As I understand it, humans are supposed to work as a team. The chaingun discourages this, I think.
1. It is highly inaccurate and hits nearby teammates.
2. Its fast rate of fire practically encourages camping. 90% of the chaingunners I have seen are always either right near their base or running back to base for more ammo.
3. With a group of other players, the chaingunner only really serves to camp outside the alien base spamming their exit, hoping to get some lucky kills. It isn't particularly good against buildings (unless you're standing right against them) and it injures your teammates (with friendly fire) instead of protecting them.
And lag always seems to follow closely behind the chaingun, whether the wielder is laggy, or it makes everyone else lag.

OMG honestly i was too lazy to read the 2 others ideas, but i cant miss that one. The Chaingun is my favorite weapon and one of the deadliest in the game. From S1 to S3 it allows you to go Rambo all alone. The only thing that prevents a good chaingunner to destroy the alien base (provided the alien teams doesnt have a skilled player) is that it is loosy to destroy the buildings.
You can go 1vs1 against all aliens classes (yeah including tyrants) with Chaingun. Its fairly accurate if you do know how to use it (dont just keep MOUSE1 down until you dont have anymore bullets).
About the camping near alien base...you must be joking, or speaking about games in which humans were already winning. With only 300 bullets, you dont camp near alien base with the chaingun. There are far better weapons for that (Pulse rifle if you wanna stay here for a while, or Lucy if you re here to damage the base)

Actually, what you say about people using chainguns seems to me like what campers would say. To see the skilled players who arent afraid to go alone and manage to get some kills without feeding, you must leave your base from time to time...

Heh, i can kill chaingunners in 8 out of 10 situations with an adv marauder..
The chaingun is too loose to hit the mara properly when it's moving like it should.
With BSuit it's in about 5 to 7 out of 10 situations.
Solo human won't survive against med-skilled alien.

[Undeference]

the radar is fine and the game is balanced

I was just trying to add a little bit of realism to the radars. After all, how do they work exactly?
I suggested the fading as a concept backing up radar fading which someone else mentioned and people thought would be a good idea.

From S1 to S3 it allows you to go Rambo all alone.

As I said, chaingun discourages teamwork. I didn't recommend camping outside the alien base with a chaingun, but that is the only semi-practical use of a chaingun in a group of humans I could think of. There is another use for the chaingun near the alien base that should be discouraged even more than camping by a door, and that is spawn camping (i.e. sitting near the eggs, killing whatever spawns).

Actually, what you say about people using chainguns seems to me like what campers would say.

I don't normally use chainguns, but I have spectated and played with (and against) some good (at least reasonably good) players using chainguns. It seems to me that most of the time they are either chasing down an alien by themself, or are near the human base.

To see the skilled players who arent afraid to go alone and manage to get some kills without feeding, you must leave your base from time to time...

I think humans going out in groups should be encouraged more than solo missions.

[DIGI_Byte]

your radar idea with blurred with distance is a great idea but there are many flaws too oif bugs can see with heartbeats and stuff then it wouldn't see structures.

the chain gun ideas are great but no. a new subression weapon for campers would be nice (designed to defend the base and not hit structures)

luci overheat is a great idea, all working off single click would work too but a max on charging, No. it should back fire and when it over heats it tempory jams up

[Stof]

Don't touch the luci overcharge blast ! How will I get rid myself of a basilisk grab attack without it ?

Chaingun is fine too but overpowered against big alien forms IMHO. Big alien forms are the couter to battlesuits and chaingun is the counter against big alien forms. Both of them on the humans in a small team makes for a very very difficult job ahead for aliens : big aliens get killed in a matter of seconds ( 75 DPS for chaingun, 3 man team with perfect accuracy kills tyrant in 1.8 second and Adv Goon in 1.1 second ) and small aliens are useless ( 4 man in the team : lucifer )

[Juno]

the radar is fine and the game is balanced

I was just trying to add a little bit of realism to the radars. After all, how do they work exactly?
I suggested the fading as a concept backing up radar fading which someone else mentioned and people thought would be a good idea.

radar already does fade with distance for both teams

Chaingun is fine too but overpowered against big alien forms IMHO. Big alien forms are the couter to battlesuits and chaingun is the counter against big alien forms. Both of them on the humans in a small team makes for a very very difficult job ahead for aliens : big aliens get killed in a matter of seconds ( 75 DPS for chaingun, 3 man team with perfect accuracy kills tyrant in 1.8 second and Adv Goon in 1.1 second ) and small aliens are useless ( 4 man in the team : lucifer )

dont forget the chaingun has a hell of a spread

also, as a tyrant your strategy should be hit and run. if you see 2bsuits with chainguns, unless you get them from behind, run like hell and pray that you have back up and arnt blocked

human bsuit stragegy, (unless your pro and can dodge a tyrant for all of its 400hp lifespan), should be to chase down tyrants once they attack turrets, and have about 200-150 hp

[Stof]

Tyrant and Goons are big enouth that spread don't matter too much. And besides, in a small team of humans nearly all with chaingun, having the Tyrant at a range where the spread does in fact reduce the chaingun damage output means the Tyrant has 0 chance to hit you himself which is good

Your tactic supposes humans cannot attack aliens once both are stage 3. It's wrong, small team of humans navigating in long corridors can easily be agressive against a stage 3 alien team due to the mighty chaingun!

[Undeference]

Don't touch the luci overcharge blast ! How will I get rid myself of a basilisk grab attack without it ?

Instead of being caught in the fallout, it would be fried in the decay. (Or you could charge up a shot until it backfires in your face and takes whatever little thing is nearby. If you're going to die anyway, you might as well go out with a flash and a bang.)

[Stof]

Don't touch the luci overcharge blast ! How will I get rid myself of a basilisk grab attack without it ?

Instead of being caught in the fallout, it would be fried in the decay. (Or you could charge up a shot until it backfires in your face and takes whatever little thing is nearby. If you're going to die anyway, you might as well go out with a flash and a bang.)

As a matter of fact, I DO use the overload feature of the lucifer quite often. It allows me to kill aliens in my back without suffering too much damage ( armor+helmet minimum ) and also allows me to kill fleeing aliens that are faster than lucifer blast, but not faster than sprinting human.

It is somewhat strange that the best way to kill a fleeing granger with a luci consists in overloading the weapon to the point of explosion and runing so that you can hold that same weapon near the alien at the time of the discharge :/

[dormedas]

These ideas are interesting, and could be submitted to the devs, but before that happens, the devs need to make the teams more closely balanced. As you can see there are many many requests for human modifications, but no such modification will come until the devs feel like modifications can or should be made.

I can see the Lucifer becoming a more skilled player higher learning curve weapon, which would, in a way, reduce LuciNoobs, at least to the extent that either A: They're so abd at the Lucifer they can't make a kill, or B: They learn it. Camping would be much reduced if the decay idea is adopted. (Especially in Karith Station camping down the bottom hallway)

Although I vote in favor of a more expanded equipments list for the Humans. E.G.:
Ammo Belt [Adds 2 or 3 clips to the Rifle and 100 rounds to the Chaingun]
Revolver Pistol [Either A: Adds a revolver that can kill a dretch in two shots. 12.5+ dmg. is inaccurate to an extent, holds 6 per "clip" and a total of 32 bullets (3 "clips") or a fourth "clip" with Ammo Belt. or B: Replaces regular pistol]
Clip-Fed Pistol .45 cal [Same as above except it adds a clip-fed pistol which is slightly more accurate than the revolver(or vice-versa) does maybe 9 dmg each. and holds 15 shots per clip, holds 3 clips, or 4 with Ammo Belt.]

[Vector_Matt]

Lucifer Cannon

I like it.

Chaingun

I see your point, but this one may be hard to get done properly.

Radar

This makes sense, but might not be the best way to do radar, not sure what would be better though.

Very though provoking ideas, good job.

[temple]

I think the current chaingun is on point.  You can't camp with it because it only has 300 bullets.  That complaint is obviously coming from playing aliens but not from using it on humans.  The whole of the chaingun is that it is inaccurate until you attack a target with a large enough hitbox to take the whole spread of bullets.   Otherwise, its not useful.

As a Tyrant, you should be able to take out a chaingunner or 2.  Its matter of positioning and location but not impossible.  Anything more than 2 is pretty much impossible and it should be.  1 aliens shouldn't be able to hold back 3 or more humans.  


The luci cannon doesn't need a change.  Its fine.  It doesn't need to be made harder to use and making it easier to use would be overpowered.  The hot and cold idea would make the luci harder to use.  With the luci, I want to be firing a shot every 2 seconds when I reach the alien base, otherwise I'm dead and not able to accomplish anything.

[Undeference]

I'm not the necromancer.

"You can't camp with [the chaingun] because it only has 300 bullets." You are either bluffing, hoping I have no idea what's going on, or you are totally oblivious yourself. Your consequent doesn't even support your premise.

"That complaint is obviously coming from playing aliens but not from using it on humans." I play aliens and humans about evenly and have used the chaingun extensively since initially starting this thread. My experience confirms what I said in the first place: not a good weapon for team play, not a good weapon for attacking, mostly used defensively (shooting over turrets, chasing down fleeing aliens).

Your second paragraph really has nothing to do with this thread. It defends points no one was arguing.

"The luci cannon doesn't need a change. Its fine." In response to this, I quote for you my opening for the post that started this thread way back: "These were just some things I was thinking about today I thought might be interesting".
There you go. Things I thought (and still think) would be interesting. Not things that absolutely need to be done that somehow make Tremulous less of a game for not having them. It is not a bug report, but a ponderance of hypothetical features.

[jal]

I'd vote a very big YES to remove secondary fire in Lucis, and... that's it. No replacement needed. Primary fire is already the only useful fire in Lucis, the other one just serves the purpose of lagging the server while making no damage to any alien.

[temple]

I'm not the necromancer.

"You can't camp with [the chaingun] because it only has 300 bullets." You are either bluffing, hoping I have no idea what's going on, or you are totally oblivious yourself. Your consequent doesn't even support your premise.

"That complaint is obviously coming from playing aliens but not from using it on humans." I play aliens and humans about evenly and have used the chaingun extensively since initially starting this thread. My experience confirms what I said in the first place: not a good weapon for team play, not a good weapon for attacking, mostly used defensively (shooting over turrets, chasing down fleeing aliens).

The Chaingun when used in groups is great.  Human armor basically makes the chaingun harmless and the spread of the bullets can miss humans as well as it misses smaller aliens.  2 chaingun/bs aren't going to kill each other but they can move down nearly anything on the field.  

But they will have to return to base often.  I'm not trying to be argumentative but I just got down doing chaingun groups with some people and defended the human area well.

[techhead]

Leave the chain-gun and the radar the way they are right now.

Lucifer cannon could use a couple changes:
Smaller shots travel faster.
Secondary fire gets integrated into primary, as above.
Shots should neither decay, nor radiate damage as they travel.

[Stof]

Leave the secondary lucifer fire as it is now

[AKAnotu]

your ideas are cool, just don't replace the existing weapons, and i think that more than half of your ideas would be waaaaaaaaaaaay too hard to code

[vcxzet]

I want freaking llamas

[techhead]

I think that small luci shots should not be able to be launched repeatedly without effort like they can now.

[Stof]

I think that small luci shots should not be able to be launched repeatedly without effort like they can now.

Secondary Fire?