'noobs' v.s. 'noobs' or pros?

[DKG]

A quick question from a 'noob' to the pros.  Who should we be playing against/with?

   -Playing with/against experts 'ruins' their gaming experience
      -Will help you develop your Trem.

   -Playing with noobs you'll pick up some nasty habbits (never learn)
      -Have fun killing/being killed (without feeling guilty)

How did you guys learn?

(apart from the many "l33t" players that were "born with tremendous skill")

[ZEL]

well i started playing with a bunch of friends of similar skill (we all sucked), and that was a fine introduction into the basics of how to play.  Yes, you do learn how to do some things through experimentation, however against players who are learning with you you're not going to become very good quickly.  

There are "pros" who are real dicks to new players, but keep in mind that usually these are the guys who arent actually "pros" themselves but just like to think so.  Thats why they're playing on servers with a lot of new people, and thats why they're whining about you.  Because while they're better than you, they want it to stay that way.

The guys who are really good usually dont mind at all showing a newer player the ropes as long as you're willing to listen, and if somebody gets pissed off at you for feeding its probably because they're having issues as well.

The important thing is to acknowledge that you are there to learn, to watch, and to listen.  Maybe spec a game or two before joining some really good players.  And once you do, if you find yourself dying a lot just hang back a bit and have fun.  I recommend not starting on FF servers because you might get more than your fair share of TKs, and that really will bug people.

[DKG]

Thanks ZEL.  That's very encoraging/reasuring.
I'll be killing your adv goon with a machinegun before you know it  :roll:

[sicks string samurai]

A quick question from a 'noob' to the pros.  Who should we be playing against/with?

   -Playing with/against experts 'ruins' their gaming experience
      -Will help you develop your Trem.

   -Playing with noobs you'll pick up some nasty habbits (never learn)
      -Have fun killing/being killed (without feeling guilty)

How did you guys learn?

(apart from the many "l33t" players that were "born with tremendous skill")

i totally agree. i've been a newb for a week or so now. and i can't learn much if i die. but i tell ya i'm a GOD at dying...



...actually i've been getting better. learning the ropes.

[PIE]

This thread has happened before(i can't stand searching for it).. I think we all agreed in the end play with vets.. even if you have a short temper.. playing with noobs can still be frustrating when they decide to build or feed.. at least the vets can help you out and cover your back.

[DKG]

Great response.  I, personally, was freaked out as a new player (FF? TK? GOON? FEEDING? CAMPING?).

--FF=Friendly Fire (Your machinegun harms your team-mates too)

--TK=Team Kill (As above, killing a team member)

--GOON=Dragoon (A nasty alien beast!)

--FEEDING=Getting killed as a dretch/machinegunner, over & over again (a dretch can't do much to a tesla/battlesuit-wearing human) If in doubt, ask (press 'y' then the your message, to ask team-mates)

--CAMPING=Not going past your, structural (tubes/turrets...), base defence.  I'm still not clear on this issue, isn't an s1 human better off firing a few shots from behind his turrets than feeding by attacking his opponents, time evolved, goon?

As with crossing the road, "Look & listen" and if you can, cross the road with an adult.
(Don't accept candy from them though)

From a fellow 'noob', Watch, Listen, ASK!  The comunity (besides a few "vets") is very friendly.

Thanks to all patient, welcoming "Trem-endous" players!

[Undeference]

Once you are completely comfortable with everything the manual already told you, I recommend spectating the people who are much better than you. Just see how they handle certain circumstances and how they do so well. If they are really good, watching them can be more enjoyable than playing. Also pay attention to what other players are doing while they are playing and watch how they respond.

Then try it. Pretty soon, you'll find yourself in identical situations, handling them better than you were.

Of course, you can't learn new things by trying to emulate others. After getting a little better, I recommend just screwing around every now and then. It might piss the other people on your team off a bit, but there's no better way than that to learn and develop your own style of play.

--CAMPING=Not going past your, structural (tubes/turrets...), base defence. I'm still not clear on this issue, isn't an s1 human better off firing a few shots from behind his turrets than feeding by attacking his opponents, time evolved, goon?

Any time your opponent gets kills you, you are "feeding" them. No one complains about it if you are helping your team as you do it, and the way to help your team is by getting kills and destroying enemy structures (especially the important structures like spawns and reactor/overmind). There are a few beginner guides on the forums that will hopefully help you be able to leave your base without dying immediately, and if you can do that and kill enemies, people won't complain too much about feeding. (Also, if you have a player on your team with as many kills as the other team, you probably won't get yelled at for feeding.)

[Rippy]

First of all, you don't need so many "quotation marks".

Second, when you're first playing the game, play some noobs. This allows you to explore the maps in relative safety, and not get discouraged by getting no kills. But the moment you're comfortable with the game, start spectating and playing against pros, that's where you learn the good techniques and strategies.

Also note that, although it may seem suicidal, always join the team with the LEAST pros. I find that you learn your HUMAN strats when playing alien, and vice-versa. As aliens, you'll see what a nade and painsaw rush can do, how a battlesuit+chaingun can take down most anything if he can dodge well. As humans, the power of the goon pounce, the agility of the marauder, the difficulty of hitting a wall-crawling dretch, etc. Also, spend some games looking at your base, seeing what works and what doesn't. Even if you have no intention of building, those skills will be essential when in a pinch.

And finally, don't forget to regularly scan the forums for any threads where techniques are discussed.

[dretchfeed]

First of all, you don't need so many "quotation marks".

Second, when you're first playing the game, play some noobs. This allows you to explore the maps in relative safety, and not get discouraged by getting no kills. But the moment you're comfortable with the game, start spectating and playing against pros, that's where you learn the good techniques and strategies.

Also note that, although it may seem suicidal, always join the team with the LEAST pros. I find that you learn your HUMAN strats when playing alien, and vice-versa. As aliens, you'll see what a nade and painsaw rush can do, how a battlesuit+chaingun can take down most anything if he can dodge well. As humans, the power of the goon pounce, the agility of the marauder, the difficulty of hitting a wall-crawling dretch, etc. Also, spend some games looking at your base, seeing what works and what doesn't. Even if you have no intention of building, those skills will be essential when in a pinch.

And finally, don't forget to regularly scan the forums for any threads where techniques are discussed.

Ah-ha! I knew there was a good technique for learning! Thank you for sharing this info

[|Nex|TrEmMa]

Find what you're good at and don't stop doing it.  This can be stuff like building or other boring stuff.  But I find wave after wave of kamikaze attacks more fun :p.

Alot of time the types of game you've previously played determine what kind of player you'll be.  I know myself and the other Nex players all are high-paced players because we come from a game where action was non stop and camping was almost nonexistant.  That is what we're used to and that's how we'll play.

[PHREAK]

Agree with Tremma 100%.
As a Nexuiz player, I just can't camp in Tremulous. Hummie or Critter!

[Undeference]

Find what you're good at and don't stop doing it.

Better yet, find what you're bad at and don't stop doing it until you're good at it :-)

[Kobrakai]

Find what you're good at and don't stop doing it.  

yeah... Like become a demi-god with the painsaw. Like Tremma.
But seriously, Tremma's right here. If you have a few good things that you're good at, do them. In the course of doing them, you watch what other players do, and more importantly, how they do it.

For example, if you're new to building, DONT do it on your own. See if there is another builder who knows what he is doing, and help him out (coordinating decons for experienced players was how I learned to build) If you are new to the game, the number one thing that will draw angry critics is a bad builder.

I started off never evo'ing into a goon, because I couldn't use it that well (pounce, etc.), so I would be a mara, which I found easier to use (personally) In the course of jumping around, getting headshots on humans (at s1, usually 2 or 3 bites to the top of a humans head will take them out) I saw how other people were using the goon, and emulated them. It worked out.

[DIRKDIGGLER]

Alot of time the types of game you've previously played determine what kind of player you'll be.  I know myself and the other Nex players all are high-paced players because we come from a game where action was non stop and camping was almost nonexistant.  That is what we're used to and that's how we'll play.

What game was that?

[DKG]

Emulate the pros.  Practice, practice, practice.
got it.

I saw a post about favorite players.  A list would be nice to help us noobs distinguish between the wannabe pros and the actual vets.

Spending hours watching and taking advice from someone who turns out to be cr@p is time not too well spent (unless ofcourse you work it out for yourself and realise/learn from their mistakes)

[Kobrakai]

Emulate the pros.  Practice, practice, practice.
got it.

I saw a post about favorite players.  A list would be nice to help us noobs distinguish between the wannabe pros and the actual vets.

I am SO a wannabe pro.  

And hey, stop stealing my word! I used the word "emulate", it's mine, go shift f7 something else in Word!

Just kidding. But while it would be interesting to see such a list, I am definately not in support of actaully making one. First of all, who decides whos going to be on it? Second of all, what is the critiria? Thirdly, the list could cause a lot of argument and contention that probably wouldn't be a welcome thing on the forum. And Octonary, I would not want to know exactly how far down that list I really am.

[Undeference]

If you see someone doing something that seems to work, it doesn't matter how good or bad of a player they are. If you can perfect it, its origin is irrelevant.
When people say "emulate the pros", it doesn't mean copying how they play, just copying what they do when they play. It is rather silly when you watch someone playing and realize they are trying to play like someone else (and usually doing and really bad job at it).

[kozak6]

Alot of time the types of game you've previously played determine what kind of player you'll be.  I know myself and the other Nex players all are high-paced players because we come from a game where action was non stop and camping was almost nonexistant.  That is what we're used to and that's how we'll play.

What game was that?

Nexuiz
http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/

[DASPRiD]

Emulate the pros.  Practice, practice, practice.
got it.

I saw a post about favorite players.  A list would be nice to help us noobs distinguish between the wannabe pros and the actual vets.

Spending hours watching and taking advice from someone who turns out to be cr@p is time not too well spent (unless ofcourse you work it out for yourself and realise/learn from their mistakes)

On Tremulous.info & [db@] Servers, you can call several guys "real veterans":

Stahlsau, Desp, Jimbo, Rasz, Xonya, Myself and some more, I don't remember their name yet.

They all have their advantages, and you can learn something from them

[DIRKDIGGLER]

Alot of time the types of game you've previously played determine what kind of player you'll be.  I know myself and the other Nex players all are high-paced players because we come from a game where action was non stop and camping was almost nonexistant.  That is what we're used to and that's how we'll play.

What game was that?

Nexuiz
http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/

Thx. I seem to be the only hardcore Unreal Tournament player that now plays Trem.

My .02 on playing: To be good just go with your gut and do the thing you love. If you love building then build and only do that for a while. If you love shooting stuff then play as rifle. Hang back, spec alot and learn some tips before you get to crazy.

I must also say that part of skill is inherit so even if you practice and spec and study you will not be as good as some other people cause you just dont have the "stuff".

[Survivor]

Generally I'd say pick the right server to start as well. Some servers can be hard on the learners. tremulous.info derelict is more of a fun server anyway where you can get away with more than on other servers. But if you build up a reputation of doing only stupid stuff though you will be watched, you also need the custom maps to play on it.
The veteran players that frequent it are stahlsau, Desp, xonya, darkwolf, dasprid, megabite, hanky, lonely angel, me and there are quite a lot very good normal players who are willing to help as well.
Just don't be confused about our apparent unseriousness. We play to have fun more then anything else.
Also speccing and asking any questions, be it server, game or mapping related isn't uncommon but you will have to be lucky to have the right person on . If I'm on though I'll be happy to help anytime.

[Lava Croft]

And after learning the game on the Trem.info servers, you can come help us at SATGNU to remove all the new players and replace them with people who do know how to play Tremulous!

Sigh...

[DKG]

Thanks alot guys.  

[rasz_pl]

And after learning the game on the Trem.info servers, you can come help us at SATGNU to remove all the new players and replace them with people who do know how to play Tremulous!

Sigh...

last time I checked you kicked players, that were too good for you

sigh...

[jhaa]

To be a good trem player you need to travel back in time, before trem became popular like CS, and then play with norf and others.

[stahlsau]

To be a good trem player you need to travel back in time, before trem became popular like CS, and then play with norf and others.

ACK!

Not so long ago...but long before the standalone-era. Hehe, one always had to ask some people in the irc-chan to get a game up with more than 4 players

[DKG]

To be a good trem player you need to travel back in time, before trem became popular like CS, and then play with norf and others.

ACK!

Not so long ago...but long before the standalone-era. Hehe, one always had to ask some people in the irc-chan to get a game up with more than 4 players

Sounds great.  Planning a game for the coming days, seeing all 4 people turned up, you then proceed to Trem!
Because of this planning, (and because you all know eachother) you battle it out no matter how bleak it looks.  I can just imagine the depth of involvement in each and every game I'm sure, despite it being that long ago, you can still remember as clearly as ever certain benchmark (good/bad) games as if you'd just played them.
None of this to be found on a few SST games I joined last night. (a rather different experience to say the least)

[Megagun]

And after learning the game on the Trem.info servers, you can come help us at SATGNU to remove all the new players and replace them with people who do know how to play Tremulous!

Sigh...

You mean "people who follow the admins and mods and totally agree with them on every point they make and do not dare to tell them their own opinions because that would get them threatened with a kick and they would then be called n00bs because they are new or something like that"...
(Lack of punctuation intended)

Seriously, you guys should learn to listen to others and not go "NO YOU'RE WRONG AND STOP TELLING US YOUR OPINIONS OR YOU GET MUTED OR KICKED" whenever someone thinks this or that base layout is pretty great.

Back on topic: Just play the game, and learn as you play. Generally, it is a nice idea to hide a bit as a dretch, looking at how other people fight their 1on1 duels. Just make sure you're not standing in everyone's way..

[Lava Croft]

Seriously, you guys should learn to listen to others

Megagun, you lack some basic knowledge about Tremulous basebuilding, yet you run around the map telling people, most notably GORE! and me, where we are to build or where we are not to build.
When you say something about Karith Human Original base being very good, GORE! and I get the level you are on and ask you to shut up because we only see this big, brown turd coming out of the area inbetween your spread lips.

As lots of other players that aren't lacking as much as you do know, I might be a harsh bastard, but I'm not that stupid to ignore good info. It's just that the 'info' you supply is not only obsolete, it's plain incorrect. That is why we asked you to shut up, then when you wouldn't shut your piehole, I turned to the 'stfu or mute', which worked great.

[PS] jhaa, Friday at 2300h?

[jhaa]

*brown turds*
Seriously, you guys should learn to listen to others and not go "NO YOU'RE WRONG AND STOP TELLING US YOUR OPINIONS OR YOU GET MUTED OR KICKED" whenever someone thinks this or that base layout is pretty great.
*brown turds*

I THINKS BULDING YUOR BAES FULLOF EGGS AND NO OVERLORD IN ATCS IS GREAT YOU SPOWN RLY FAST SO YUO DONT HAVE TO WAIT LOGN IF YOU DIE LOTS PLESE LISETEN TO ME AND DONT BE SO AGGROGANT!1one

[PS] jhaa, Friday at 2300h?

No thx i don't do buttsecks.(or naybe with girls)