Author Topic: Dragoons, after human hit S2 (Read 6939 times)

player12345 · « **on:** September 28, 2006, 05:35:04 am »

To all the pros and vets:

How useful do you find the dragoon is, after Humans hit s2?

For me, I find it almost impossible to kill with a dragoon after humans hit s2. 3 continous headshot is just too hard to land on a dodging human. (for me that is)

I spec-ed some pro aliens playing goon as well, but all they seems to be good at is prouncing on unarmour humans, and occasionnaly go for a armour human, if they are in a tight space. Which they still flee alot if they humans are using anti goon weapons.

I played human after, trying to learn how to play goon by going against them. And i finded that the dragoon is the easiest to kill out of all combat aliens. Its large size and slow movents makes it easy to evade, Pounce does too little damage even after it hits, and hurt the goon alot. And with pulse rifle or shot gun it is very likely to out damage the goon, after you dodge a 1 or 2 hits.

So heres my question again: how do you felt about dragoon after humans hit s2?

Undeference · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:02:28 am »

Considering that if you're still a stage 1 alien (whether your team has s2 or not) and you're against stage 2 humans, you want to either get stage 3 or massacre the human base really quickly. In other words, you want to get your kills and not die. Going against a s1 human is more sure than against a s2 human.

Basically, unless the humans are massively out-skilled by a dragoon, the dragoon's kill rate once humans hit stage 2 drops severely. You can get stage 2 humans as a dragoon, and the better you are the easier, but those 2 to 4 hits added to the dragoon's slow attack rate make any larmour+helmet a threat. I'll almost never charge into a group of more than 3 stage 2 humans as a dragoon because 200 hit points don't last forever.

That said, if you find yourself in a 1v1, you should try to prevent the human from hitting you. If you can get an initial pounce, that saves a lot of time. Try to stay behind the human but if you find yourself being outmaneuvered, you may have to try faking the human out and retreating.

If it's 2 goons against 1 human, back off. Either that human will die in a fraction of a second or the goons will get in each other's ways.

--- Oh, forgot to answer the question. lol ---
How useful a dragoon is to me once the humans are at stage 2 depends on how good the humans are or how bad the lag is. Often times I'll just dretch until we get to stage 3 (and by then I'll probably have plenty of evolution points to get an advanced dragoon or tyrant).

Survivor · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:30:31 am »

I'm not a terribly good goon.
I will use it in s1 but for me it lacks that which is needed to make it a killer alien in s2 against anything but unexperienced players, so I usually revert back to adv marauder which is what I am best at anyway.
Adv goon in S3 however brings back some of it's power because of the higher damage output and the better speed and range.

DASPRiD · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:37:00 am »

Well, S1 Goon vs S2 Humans isn't realy good, I've got a simple tactic for playing:

After starting the game, I rush to humans and bite 3 of them (maybe 4), and move away. Then I evolve to Goon. Until humans get to S2, I pounce as many as I can. When humans get S2, I will surely die after max 3 S2 humans and then I evolve to (adv) Marauder. Most humans are mostly to bad to hit a good moving Marauder, and the fast attack of it can take the humans out easily. Also BattleSuites are possible with S1 Marauder. So then is S3, I take Tyrant, collect some Evos and get ready for a rush with some mates.

Result: Win

Chojin · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2006, 09:35:55 am »

Well, exactly the reason why I do not like TJW's nerfed Dragoon (no offense though, I really appreciate all the work he has done).

^Black · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2006, 10:38:10 am »

Just so you know, its easily possible to kill s2 humans with dragoon. Jump, slash for the head. Easier than you'd think.

temple · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2006, 12:10:43 pm »

I have the same problem. The idea is to head chomp after humans s2. If you can do that, you will never have a problem again. But humans with armor is the skill check for any alien player.

Playing a marauder has helped with honing my head shot skills.

I have pretty much avoided goon laterly because I usually get killed by other aliens rather than humans. It takes practice but hey, I learned how to kill with the mighty dretch. So I know I'll learn how to get the head chomps. In a couple of months, I'm sure aliens will be head chomping maniacs and people wilil on here complaining about that.

rasz_pl · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2006, 03:12:29 pm »

and I on the other hand started with mara, then had a basi month, and now play with goon all the time

its easy as long as the map is large enough to run in time

Paradox · « **Reply #8 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:02:38 pm »

S1 pwning alien: Goon
S2 pwning alien: Adv. Marauder
S3 pwning: Adv goon, Tyrant, adv marauder

The adv marauder is even better on servers using tjw's new poision system, can drive away a whole army of bsuits.

dodo1122 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:12:35 pm »

u just hvae to learn how to kill s2 humans, although its pretty hard

Stof · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:15:14 pm »

I'm not sure I like that new poison system. Haven't tested it yet but from the looks of it, I'm sure it'll be a very good tool to make humans camp even more :/

player12345 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:54:35 pm »

So it is agreed that use a adv mara after s2?

If thats true, then im doing the right thing

What i do is bite as many human as i can as a dretch, evolve to goon if human is still s1, Pounce Chomp as many armoured humans as i can. Once humans s2, i /kill the goon and go for a adv mara, and grind to s3, then tyrant to win.

PHREAK · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2006, 02:24:26 am »

The Bsuit poison is quite idiotic, considering what the bsuit is. If it's a metal shell, then how the hell can you get poisoned when slashed.
Also, poison works while gas doen't?! Quite idiotic (nothing against TJW in regards to this)

Undeference · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2006, 05:40:51 am »

You are saying a poison should not effect a battle suit because a battle suit is a thick shell of metal armor. But the person inside the battle suit is not a thick piece of metal. If you want to try applying logic here, apply it all over:

How can a spider-thing the size of your head bite THROUGH a thick suite of metal?
How can something the size of your head bite your head when your are standing up and it is on the ground?
Why is it that a 3 meter tall 4 legged monster can't walk past something the size of your head and can get trapped by a measly human 1/1000th its weight?
How is it possible that this massive 4 legged monster stay perfectly even with the floor when it is supporting itself on a platform on only its toes on one foot?
Why did marines decide to do battle with monsters of all sizes and forget to bring the heavy artillery and vehicles?
Why do most of the maps have inside areas where more buildings can be built?
Why can't you go inside the armoury?
How is it that marines never have to pee?
What kind of corporation would hire security personnel who can only jump 3 or 4 times before they get tired, when the average person can jump 30 or 40 times before they get bored?
Why do humans tire easily when a giant monster can charge all over the place and never tire?
Why don't aliens get injured when they fall impossibly long distances?
Do dretches and dragoons ever get full?

You get the idea...

Basilisco · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2006, 06:30:33 am »

Why is it that a 3 meter tall 4 legged monster can't walk past something the size of your head and can get trapped by a measly human 1/1000th its weight?
They are polite

How is it possible that this massive 4 legged monster stay perfectly even with the floor when it is supporting itself on a platform on only its toes on one foot?
Matrix, definitely

Why did marines decide to do battle with monsters of all sizes and forget to bring the heavy artillery and vehicles?
Humans sent the poor army

Why do most of the maps have inside areas where more buildings can be built?
Think of them as kitchen appliances for.. hhm.. war

Why can't you go inside the armoury?
For the same reason you don't go inside your fridge (it's fun though if you fit in though..)

How is it that marines never have to pee?
The piss stay inside the metal diaper

What kind of corporation would hire security personnel who can only jump 3 or 4 times before they get tired, when the average person can jump 30 or 40 times before they get bored?
Bad pay

Why do humans tire easily when a giant monster can charge all over the place and never tire?
Ever saw beast get tired? It's because he's blue :]

Why don't aliens get injured when they fall impossibly long distances?
Blue-i-ness

Do dretches and dragoons ever get full?
They don't eat humans, they get the weapon/armour and buy food with the money they got a the recycle center ^^

Stof · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2006, 09:18:35 am »

Quote from: "Undeference"

You are saying a poison should not effect a battle suit because a battle suit is a thick shell of metal armor. But the person inside the battle suit is not a thick piece of metal.

Well, I'm not complaining that it is idiotic to get poisoned through the battlesuit. I'm complaining that users with larmor+helmet have no more protection against that 10 points of damage over 5 seconds attack. I'm complaining that no matter how good you are, it's already hard enouth to reach the alien base through a sea of dretches, even with a lucifer, now it'll become impossible.

Glunnator · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2006, 01:14:31 pm »

I use goon, sure.
When hummmies go s2, i'm either already a adv. mara, or i have a feeding team, kill my goon and doge about with a normal mara.

...Not too good at any of 'em though... :oops:

Undeference · « **Reply #17 on:** September 29, 2006, 06:27:00 pm »

Quote from: "Stof"

I'm complaining that users with larmor+helmet have no more protection against that 10 points of damage over 5 seconds attack. I'm complaining that no matter how good you are, it's already hard enouth to reach the alien base through a sea of dretches, even with a lucifer, now it'll become impossible.

Oh, I see. Point taken. Just one question though: do you even play Tremulous?

PHREAK · « **Reply #18 on:** October 01, 2006, 02:27:16 am »

yeah Stof, do you ever play man!

Undeference
If you gonna go by logic in regards to the bsuit, then consider this.
It's armor. Aliens chew on it till the go thru. Then the hummie dies.

I love poisoned Bsuits as a boosted dretch, but thats not the point.
I also think that aliens must not be able to poison eachother since it takes away from the game.

Yeah, I'm talking about the playability of the game. The fun of it. Not real life physics and nature.

Undeference · « **Reply #19 on:** October 01, 2006, 03:06:01 am »

Quote

If it's a metal shell, then how the hell can you get poisoned when slashed.
...
Aliens chew on it till the go thru.

When they finally chomp through (let's say the human escapes with 5hp), shouldn't he have to buy a new one because his current one is busted? I just figure that if a dretch can bite through anyway, why shouldn't the guy get poisoned? I also like that the medkit no longer grants immunity because there are now no longer cases where you bite someone and they should be making the poisoned sound but aren't. Previously they could take some damage, use the medkit, get a new one, and be immune to poison for 30 seconds.

Though I do think the poison needs some adjusting. I hope we don't want to encourage poison dretch swarms. They are just plain annoying to everyone (especially when I'm dretching and these idiots keep getting in the way).

@stof: It should be pretty easy to clear a path to the alien base using a luci. If you're concerned about ammo, bring a battpack. And if you can't get to the alien base, you should at least be able to get a bunch of kills (and maybe occupy some dretches while your teammates attack their base?).

Juno · « **Reply #20 on:** October 01, 2006, 03:42:03 am »

lol

as a goon or any alein

[PICK YOUR BATTLES CAREFULLY!!!!!1111

thats the most important thing about goons agasint s2

dont take on a pro as goon if your not that good

likewise, noob with a flamer you can probably take

now

skilled adv maras are nigh unkillable, small hit box, jump like mad

headshot, turn, block human trying to run, slash slash slash, get last slash or 2 as he runs, dead

bsuit, 3 headshots dead

im not that good with mara, but i will probably practice as it

Neo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2006, 12:47:22 am »

Goons always seem to be more ambush type, as you leap in do some damage then leap out, rinse repeat. If you stick around with more than 2 people you're gonna be toast in no time.

Rippy · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2006, 11:23:54 pm »

Quote from: "Neo"

Goons always seem to be more ambush type, as you leap in do some damage then leap out, rinse repeat. If you stick around with more than 2 people you're gonna be toast in no time.

Yeah, whereas marauders can approach nearly any human by jumping madly down the hallway. If the mara player is good, and if the hummies don't have lucis or something, he'll get in slashing range with at least a good 120 hp

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Author Topic: Dragoons, after human hit S2 (Read 6939 times)

rasz_pl