Author Topic: Death count... (Read 10778 times)

Howdybums Spikers · « **on:** September 30, 2006, 02:56:28 pm »

Hey, I don't visit these forums much, so sorry if this idea has already been suggested.

I was wondering if there could be a death count on the leaderboard, alongside the kill count. This would allow people to see whos feeding, and also allow people to see how many times they are dying and try to cut it down. I know I would find this useful.

Cheers

Survivor · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2006, 04:13:01 pm »

Search

rasz_pl · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2006, 07:40:24 pm »

its hard to stuff death count on the scoretab, fonts are too big

yes I tried

Howdybums Spikers · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2006, 09:51:52 pm »

I did do a very brief search. I've done another one, and found it, but the title wording made it difficult to see when skim reading.

Sorry for the repeat thread.

Rippy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2006, 12:16:39 am »

I'm neither for nor against it. When I first played Trem, I looked at the scoreboard and thought "OMFG U CANT C HOW MANY TIMES U DIE*. Then I got used to it and now it doesn't really bother me.

I think that, as helpful as a death count would be for finding feeders, it'd also cause a ton of spam messages, along the lines of "WTF STOP FEEDING, YOU HAVE LIKE 3 DEATHS MORE THAN ME". Would also cause a lot of votekicks.

Undeference · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2006, 06:12:09 am »

What would be better is replacing the kill count with kill:death ratio. That's more important anyway. Also, a team score would be nice (though maybe buildings made:lost instead

.

Dj_Pong · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2006, 10:16:57 am »

Death count will be anoying and will make people make shit votes real faster..

But on the other hand.. When its get implemented people can see how 31337 I am xD (LET THE FLAMING BEGIN! rofl)

Neo · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2006, 12:53:45 am »

The problem is it won't be accurate, as you can be the only guy on your team attacking and of course you'd have more deaths than your teammates who camp base all day. Granted you'd have more kill you'd still be your team's top 'feeder'

Daytripper · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2006, 02:16:54 am »

I think it's a great idea, it would be good to have something to point to when you tell people to stop feeding and they might actually feel ashamed enough to stop if it is there for all to see. I would also like to know how many times I've died compared to how many kills I have, it's something I've often wondered about.

PHREAK · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2006, 02:40:10 am »

When will people realize that this game isn't about kills or deaths.

Play more please. Maybe you'll get the point of the game.

temple · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2006, 03:45:07 am »

I would like to see:
Kills/ Teammate kills
Deaths/ Death from teammates
Structure kills/ Team structure kills
Points-credits earned / Points-credits spent
Kill streaks/ death streak <-The biggest sign of feeding

Someone could write an mod to catch that data (I don't know about structure kills tho).

Captain Ventris · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2006, 04:57:34 am »

Quote from: "temple"

I would like to see:
Kills/ Teammate kills
Deaths/ Death from teammates
Structure kills/ Team structure kills
Points-credits earned / Points-credits spent
Kill streaks/ death streak <-The biggest sign of feeding

Someone could write an mod to catch that data (I don't know about structure kills tho).

Add that to the fact that you can't scroll, and the scoreboard will display 4 people on a good day.

rasz_pl · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2006, 12:58:07 pm »

Quote from: "Captain Ventris"

Quote from: "temple"
I would like to see:
Kills/ Teammate kills
Deaths/ Death from teammates
Structure kills/ Team structure kills
Points-credits earned / Points-credits spent
Kill streaks/ death streak <-The biggest sign of feeding

Someone could write an mod to catch that data (I don't know about structure kills tho).

Add that to the fact that you can't scroll, and the scoreboard will display 4 people on a good day.

actually you can
bind , "scoresDown"
bind . "scoresUp"

janev · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2006, 08:22:22 pm »

i don't think deaths are really relevant in tremulous...

sure an unarmoured human may charge out into the lap of a waiting tyrant on acts 20 times and only kill the tyrant once (that kill being the one that gets humans to stage 3) and the trade might still be worth it...

identify the feeders? isn't feeding just another word for playing, how the hell are you supposed to become good sitting on a turret letting rasz PL, dj pjong , stof or others grab the kills for you?

better to feed than to camp in my opinion... otherwise what is the point in even playing? this is not the boyscouts and we aren't supposed to sing KUMBAYA while spamming pulse/luci at the reactor.

if you really want to measure individual prowess you could implement some sort of damage counter so you won't get first on the list by just shooting/chomping the shit out of dretches/naked humans.

It really doesn't help the community to tell newbie trem players not to "feed". it can make things rather boring when you have to sit in base with console open watching a few select players fragging away.

I also see a potential problem here when i am playing against good players. i usually just rush out as humans and ignore my teams requests to camp in an effort to force them to stop camping:D i fear i would be the first to be "feeder kicked" if you put a deathcount ingame.

Howdybums Spikers · « **Reply #14 on:** October 02, 2006, 09:43:36 pm »

I think most people are smart enough to notice the difference between someone who feeds when they are obviously not going to get kills, and someone who dies a lot, but also does a lot for the team while at it. Obviously, there are exceptions (some people are just stupid), but these shouldnt be too often, and should get outvoted if they call kicks.

The biggest problem would probably be kick votes/flaming of new players, but hopefully people would eventually just except the fact that newbies are gonna feed at first, after all, everyone did.

temple · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2006, 10:04:28 pm »

Quote from: "janev"

i don't think deaths are really relevant in tremulous...

I disagree. Human side, people need to sit in the base until they learn how to shoot. Bottomline. Otherwise, they will TK (hopefully FF is on) or they will not kill AND advance the other team. Its called feedback, people (and teams) don't know whats happening until the other side is s3. It will decrease a lot of overall whining because people will see who specifically is the problem instead of blaming the whole team. I think camping is neccessary in some cases with humans. At least until you have credits or a higher stage.

Alien side, people need to learn to hide and stalk before they go rushing into humans. I'm not the greatest but I'd rather take my time than just rush and advance humans. Feeding is a lot of detrimental to aliens because aliens don't have a base to fall back on if humans advance past them. I'd rather see an alien with a 1:2 kill-death ration than a 1:5 ratio.

Information is power.

Quote from: "janev"

if you really want to measure individual prowess you could implement some sort of damage counter so you won't get first on the list by just shooting/chomping the shit out of dretches/naked humans.

I agree. I would settle for a Player damage/Structure damage counter.

janev · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2006, 10:17:25 pm »

well maybe it is just me but i would rather see a game that lasts 10 minutes of fighting with kill ratios of 1:5 than 50 minutes of waiting for sudden death with1:2 kill ration

My bottomline is how will people ever learn how to shoot and evade aliens sitting in a base? advancing the other team? that is only relevant for the round that you are playing... advancing in personal skill, well that'll help you in your hundreds of games to come

Rippy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 02, 2006, 11:26:13 pm »

All good points. If your team's gonna get pissed at you for dying, you're gonna camp the base, and eventually cause your team to lose.

Daytripper · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:04:53 am »

A death counter would help people improve. It will encourage them to address the number of times they die, which afterall, is the very thing that makes the other side progress. So in that light, death counters would help improve the individuals game which will in turn improve the teams performance.

AFAIK all online FPS have death counters, and I can't help but think that some people here might not want to know how many times they die. I on the other hand want to improve my game, not just be comfortable with the way it currently is.

On the other hand, what would be really good would be comprehensive stats that recognise builders. A stat that shows your average distance from the reactor/om would be nice too.

AllmanBros · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2006, 02:54:48 pm »

Why not just have one side of the scores dedicated to everyone elses score. Then the other side dedicated to your kills, deaths, killing streaks, death streaks. This would cause you to gain improvement, and everyone else would be saved the trouble of vote kicking everyone who has more deaths then them.

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:57:34 pm »

How about a "damage done"/"damage taken" ratio? It might be more fair. With kills/deaths you could have done the majority of damage to somthing and a teammate actualy fired the last shot.

PIE · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2006, 06:15:08 pm »

The basic problem that kills this is that deaths are too important.. Sometimes its good maybe to identify a genuine feeder who needs to be informed a bit more about strategy and how the game works, maybe it might take the wind out of some big killer's sails because their kills are actually less than their deaths.. but sometimes it might identify wrongly.. builders, or people who are just unlucky could find themselves in trouble.

I like the idea of having instead of a kills a damage done count, or both though.. because i know a lot of games I end up bringing a lot of aliens close to death, and then they run only to be killed by a teammate.. the current kill system doesn't really reward teamwork.. a damage system would be more indicative of skill than a kill count possibly. Also maybe this could be made to include points for structure life and building.. though i'm wondering into points that were already brought up in a previous thread and making my post dangerously long where noone is going to read it now... (0o)..

holyknight · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2006, 11:45:15 pm »

there should be "awards" stuff too
like, "the survivor" which is when a person survives the most
and "the traitor" to show who killed their teammates the most
and "the bait" to show who was killed by a same person the most
and stuff like that (these stuff are from Starwars Battlefront 1 and 2)

Juno · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2006, 11:56:16 pm »

to those who talk of noobs camping

they all must learn

if they camp and get bsuits and chainguns, they leave the base

they get some kills, they get a better aim

next game they leave at s2

soon, they become good enough to leave the base at s1, and stray a little from it

i myself camp , as my aim is so poor, but at s1 i have no problem chasing goons, and fighting them in open areas

dretches are the worst

holyknight · « **Reply #24 on:** October 04, 2006, 12:02:43 am »

I agree with you Juno, they are like kids, they want to stay at home, but in the future they WILL have to go outside at least once, and they'll learn how good it was to be outside... doing... ummm... killing dretches?

Quaoar · « **Reply #25 on:** October 04, 2006, 06:23:25 am »

Quote from: "Rippy"

I'm neither for nor against it. When I first played Trem, I looked at the scoreboard and thought "OMFG U CANT C HOW MANY TIMES U DIE*. Then I got used to it and now it doesn't really bother me.

I think that, as helpful as a death count would be for finding feeders, it'd also cause a ton of spam messages, along the lines of "WTF STOP FEEDING, YOU HAVE LIKE 3 DEATHS MORE THAN ME". Would also cause a lot of votekicks.

Umm, that doesn't occur with the kill count, why do you think it'd happen with Deaths? I have yet to see a votekick against anybody for their kill count or even for incredible feeding. I've only ever seen a votekick against a non-griefer/spammer when the guy was AFK for some reason... on top of a telenode. People always seem to say that "this change will bring cultural upheaval!" when there is no precedent and no reason to suspect that it would be the case.

Kill count is really only good for ego, mostly. I guess people take guys with more kills more seriously, though if you're on the opposing team you know who is a good player without looking up the numbers. I always felt that the leading killer on either team should give a little more cred or something when killed, just for incentive. Besides that, it's only informative to see where the players stand and, as inaccurate an indicator of skill it is, it is even more inaccurate because you have no idea what all those kills were really worth. A careful player who doesn't feed might get fewer kills than the insane rambo with good aim but poor tactical decisions, and with a death count it would be immediately apparent who is really more valuable. (in terms of kill efficiency, anyway. There are roles on a team for reckless bastards sometimes).

kevlarman · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2006, 03:36:46 am »

Quote from: "Quaoar"

Umm, that doesn't occur with the kill count, why do you think it'd happen with Deaths? I have yet to see a votekick against anybody for their kill count or even for incredible feeding

and i have seen both more times than i can count

Seffylight · « **Reply #27 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:34:32 pm »

Quote from: "kevlarman"

and i have seen both more times than i can count

Seconded.

Quaoar · « **Reply #28 on:** October 06, 2006, 01:36:19 am »

Really? I've never seen it for a low kill count, and I guess I've seen it for painfully obvious feeding, but not for simply being pretty bad kind of feeding.

rasz_pl · « **Reply #29 on:** October 06, 2006, 07:22:27 pm »

hmm maybe, just maybe leave server admining to the admins? we are talking about new feature of the game, not about what happens on the servers.
It you dont like server atmosphere, CHANGE THE SERVER ...

BTW as I said earlier I tried to add this, but its really HARD to stuff so much info to the existing scoreboard. Q3 fonts are terrible.
It should be something like
opponents S1/opponents S2/opponents S3/overall

Because its much worse to feed aliens to S2 or S3 than try and stop tyrrants as a naked rifle dying 100 times in the process.

From what I tried the best thing would be a separate scoreboard, showing only additional stats, like
damage taken/damage made/damage to structures/damage by structures/feeding :opponents S1/opponents S2/opponents S3/overall

damage to structures-how much hp of damage to opponent buildings you did
damage by structures-how much hp of damage your buildings did to the opponent

It should be possible to fit awards there (different color dots for example). For best killer/structure killer/builder/feeder

/sponge bob (biggest 'damage taken/overall feeding' = smartest use of medi/regen)

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Author Topic: Death count... (Read 10778 times)

rasz_pl

rasz_pl

rasz_pl