Feedback.

[Molog]

Had great fun playing alpha version, so that's good.

Stuff I noticed(just first impression so they might be wrong) :

1. The explanation field you get when trying to build something where it is not possible is helpful the first few times: but after that it just becomes annoying. Maybe have an option to disable it and just display the red/green buildmodel.

2. Smart human with jetpack seemed pretty hard to touch for aliens. Was flying around with a jetpack next to alien base for two minutes blasting structures with blaster and 2 aliens tried to take me down all the time with little succes. Wonder how aliens would take out a human flying in one of the big outdoor places.

3. The helmet radar is good. Knowing exactly where enemies are is very useful, but takes away some of the surprise. Maybe make it less reliable. Have a line that slowly circles around and the radar only gets updated when this line passes a point or something.

4. Wallwalking can become confusing when they're a lot of small obstacles on a wall and your view switches everytime you pass them. Maybe have a more locked view.

[Supa]

1. The explanation field you get when trying to build something where it is not possible is helpful the first few times: but after that it just becomes annoying. Maybe have an option to disable it and just display the red/green buildmodel.

Agreed.

2. Smart human with jetpack seemed pretty hard to touch for aliens. Was flying around with a jetpack next to alien base for two minutes blasting structures with blaster and 2 aliens tried to take me down all the time with little succes. Wonder how aliens would take out a human flying in one of the big outdoor places.

I think is more of an issue with the Alien classes at the moment - I'd like to see one of the Alien class upgrades add a decent (Dragoon spikes are, enh, not very useful :roll: ) ranged attack.

3. The helmet radar is good. Knowing exactly where enemies are is very useful, but takes away some of the surprise. Maybe make it less reliable. Have a line that slowly circles around and the radar only gets updated when this line passes a point or something.

Also agreed, but I think the scan rate should be somewhat high - keep in mind aliens get a sort of radar too.

4. Wallwalking can become confusing when they're a lot of small obstacles on a wall and your view switches everytime you pass them. Maybe have a more locked view.

I don't find this a problem, IIRC there is a wallwalking view sensitivity cvar buried somewhere that can help..

[Godmil]

1. The explanation field you get when trying to build something where it is not possible is helpful the first few times: but after that it just becomes annoying. Maybe have an option to disable it and just display the red/green buildmodel.

I agree too... which made me surprised when I found out the other day that this option is there

2. Smart human with jetpack seemed pretty hard to touch for aliens. Was flying around with a jetpack next to alien base for two minutes blasting structures with blaster and 2 aliens tried to take me down all the time with little succes. Wonder how aliens would take out a human flying in one of the big outdoor places.

that is an issue that requires a lot of thought.  There are a few solutions, I'm doing one now in the mapping, where I've capped off the allowed height of my outside section.. so it should be within range of a dragoon pounce (and knocking someone out of the air with a dragoon is fun fun fun )

3. The helmet radar is good. Knowing exactly where enemies are is very useful, but takes away some of the surprise. Maybe make it less reliable. Have a line that slowly circles around and the radar only gets updated when this line passes a point or something.

Mmm, not sure about this one... need to think about it.

4. Wallwalking can become confusing when they're a lot of small obstacles on a wall and your view switches everytime you pass them. Maybe have a more locked view.

I think thats a mapping problem.  At the moment only one of the maps is complete.  I know for my map I hadn't optimised for wallwalking the version that everyone was playing.  I'm currently fixing this by putting small invisible barriers over some of the detail or (when its really jaggedy detail) making it nonsolid, so you can just run through it.  Its a very time consuming process but should make the wallwalking a lot more playable.

keep the suggestions coming

[Anonymous]

for the helmet I think it would be better to have to motion tracking.  So a hiding alien wont be seen.  Not sure how that should work with alien structures though


on the alien side, I think the radar is fine as is.

[OverFlow]

whoops, forgot to login... that was me up above >_<

[Who]

1. Tumbobu said there is an option for it in the menu already

2. Tumbobu already addressed this issue by implementing that the jetpack loses power as soon as the reactor is destroyed. I have never seen that happen or tested it, so I don't know if this is already implemented or not. I would think it is, though.

3. The radar is pretty crappy as it is, and since it's only available when the humans reach another stage and buy a helmet, only "more advanced" players get it. This shouldn't be an issue.

4. Don't wallwak if you don't like it ;)

[Molog]

Found a place on infusion something 3 map where I can build bugged buildings. Building is build on correct place and functions completely normal. Only problem is that it's invisible on the place it actually is. You see the structure below or besides the actual location.

[OverFlow]

hm, not very helpful info without a good description of what was going on or some screenshots.

[Crylar]

Smart human with jetpack seemed pretty hard to touch for aliens.

But wasn't thar an alien class that had some kind of 'ranged'lighning attack??

[Molog]

Pic.


Telenode is on top of lamp above door, but appears to be flaoting in midair.

[Timbo]

Yeah I know about that and I can potentially fix it to some extent. What I'm not sure about doing is whether or not building things in such ridiculous places should be permitted.

[Godmil]

but finding funky spots for building is fun and adds longevity to a map.. we dont want to be restricting this

[Supa]

I hate to make short posts, but all I can say is I agree, keep the funky build spots.  

[Midicow]

Yes, like on super sekret trem base, if you do it right you can climb up the hills and have a nice little building fest waay above ground

[FroggyQuim]

First off I must say Wow!!!! outstanding work!

The maps are really impressive! Some of them seem to have the same level of detail as Doom3 map....

The player models and structures are also really nice. Overall the quality of the art assets is quite high.

Just the time I have spent so far this seems more like a beta stage than alpha version. Seem more like it needs a bit of class balance tuning but is already lots of fun to play.

Having only played 3 versus 2 please take this feedback with a large grain of salt.

Wall walking is really fun, can be a bit disorienting but I am getting used to it the more I play.

Without the helmet, especially in big dark areas, I found it quite hard to track the aliens. I had to do so more via sound as much as seeing them. So no radar humies in dark areas are at a distinct disadvantage.  Since I can't aim worth a damn anyway this might not be an issue for those that can. The helmet really helped "situational" awareness.

Seems like with just the rifle, and no aim skillz, a larger clip would help as I spend a lot of time running back to the depot for more. Maybe just add a couple extra clips....

I think I could throw a rock faster than the blaster bullets fly! Any of the aliens could easily dodge the shots. Perhaps speed them up a bit.

As a human I missed having an explosive type of weapon. I kept wanting to chuck a grenade to clear  out a dense collection of acid tubes and obstacles. This just might get back to my lack of aiming skillz though.

Having been repeatedly hydra glued and slashed to death while he sat on my head *molog! It would be nice to be able to pivot (even slowly) to get some shots in. (I seem to be missing the hydra skin though it blends in well with the outside snow region on the one map...)

Base defense layout is much more critical since the aliens can hide from turrets behind structures as they destroy them. It seems like the reactor needs to be centrally placed with turrets radially placed around it. Most reactor kills happened with the alien hiding from the defenses.

Nits:

Several maps had uncapped polys on top/high places (godmil's outside part) or you could climb out of them and wall walk on the outsides.

The death animations for some aliens should be exaggerated a bit more...It can be hard to tell the builder class is dead since it just slumps a little.

The dragoon looks too much like a big purple tarantula and doesn't seem to thematically fit with the other aliens. Maybe just start with the hydra and rescale alter from there.

The largest alien seems a bit...stubby. Perhaps rescale the legs to be a bit thinner.

Overall alien animations could be more exagerated so they are more visible from afar.

The heavy armor sound effect is too heavy/blocky sounding.

The alien builder foot sound effect I would make more "clicky" think of the sound a dogs nails make on linoleum when they are scrambling.

Bottom Line:

Excellent work folks. I would suggest going for beta release as it seems quite playable and fun now.

[dolby]

"The heavy armor sound effect is too heavy/blocky sounding.

The alien builder foot sound effect I would make more "clicky" think of the sound a dogs nails make on linoleum when they are scrambling. "

Heavy Armor:  Yeah, it was an initial design place holder, i'll mute it down with a different sample so it won't be so conspicuous.

Alien Builder:  Haven't played for like a month but last time I was playing it was the default Q3 barefoot run sound.  Mofo has my current sound clank default alien sound.

[OverFlow]

hey! dolby isnt quite dead


Froggy:  First of all, thanks for the support
I guess I'll address some of the other issues...

Wallwalking depends a lot on the map.  As only one of the maps is actually done (niveus) the others haven't added clip brushes to make things more smooth.  Also try playing with the wallwalking settings, I changed mine around and I like it much better.  Start up a game on your own and see what suits you best.

Um... I don't really see anything wrong with not being able to track an alien very easily in a dark area

Blaster is ment to be nearly useless.  But, its still possible to kill with it.

We were kind of debating wheather or not to use grenades... Timbo argues that it results in lots of kills and destruction with almost no skill involved.  I somewhat agree.  For now however, we leave them out.  I have a feeling we might play with the idea in a later patch....

When grabbed by a hydra you can still turn somewhat... although not all the way around.  The best thing to do is travel with a teammate, and dont let yourself get snuck up on.  Btw, hydra and chimera skins aren't done, hense the whiteness.

Yes, humans have to be very careful in defending the reactor... I see no problem with that.

Nits:

Again, almost all the maps are not done yet... so they will have some problems.

I don't think I've ever had problems telling if any alien was dead.  But perhaps you're right...

The dragoon model is not done yet.  The purpule tarantula is just a placeholder we found on polycount.

Hm, not sure if I agree withyou about being 'stubby'.  I'll discuss with the others...

About the animations:  My very first animation was the granger, then mofo, soldier, hydra, chimera...  I can see how much I've improved over time, but I'm still learning, and back when I first started, I was certainly still trying to figure things out.  Along with that I've been also learning how to rig models.  The very first models weren't rigged very well, and therefore could not move their bodies around very much without bad things happening...  So there it is.  About 'exagerating' the movements.. I dunno.  Because of the six or more legs that these aliens have, physically, I dont think they really would move their bodies around very much.  However, I do get the feeling that the later animations have more 'life' in them.   So its up for grabs, I may or may not redo them... I think you would certainly have to wait until after the release though.  It takes me a good two hours for each loop, and esspecially right now with finals coming up, its hard to find the time.

[Molog]

I'm starting to get the hang of Tremulous. It's an excellent mod and could almost be released.

More feedback;

1. Shotgun seems a bit strong compared to the other weapons.

2. Upgrading to a different class heals completely and is instant. Someone could bind all different classes to keys, attack and upgrade if his health goes too low.

3. Some lame tactics possible. Running in alien defenses when poisoned. /killing yourself to deny enemies frags/money.

[FroggyQuim]

Anything I listed as a Nit in my opinion doesn't really need to be addressed for a beta, or even final, release.

Overflow, based on my experience, animation is hard, labor intensive work. I think what you have already looks good and would be fine for the release. What tool are you using for animation?

Dolby another small thing I noticed, it would be a nice if there was a sound effect for the dying humans body hitting the ground. The sound effect would give more "weight" to the visuals. There is a great sound effect for the Depot getting knocked over.

More base occlusion whining:

The human base structures size make a solid defense difficult. The Depot & Reactor are tall enough that there are multiple occlusions that the aliens can hide behind to destroy them. It difficult to place enough turrets to get overlapping fields of fire. This could be seen as a gameplay feature though with more time to experiment with turret placement this might not really matter (just be my pet peeve...) Perhaps just make the depot structure lower so the aliens can't hide behind that and leave the Reactor tall.

The helmet now shows alien structures as well as the aliens themselves. Perhaps it should be changed to only show the aliens and not their structures. This makes hiding eggs as well as defensive structures in dark inaccessible places a more viable and rewarding strategy. Since the humans have jetpacks they should eventually be able to track down well hidden Eggs/Overmind. Same for the bug radar, perhaps it should only show humans and not structures. The potential downside is longer easter egg hunt type of games.


I predict this will be a popular mod.

[Supa]

Froggy; I agree with your idea - gameplay might work out better if radar (human/alien) didn't show buildings.

[Who]

Easter egg hunts aren't really fun though, and I don't see why you would purposefully try to achieve them.


Don't try to turn this into gloom, you know.

[FroggyQuim]

Being able to hide structures more effectively rewards builders who find and exploit dark and obscure areas of maps. I think it leads to a "deeper" (for lack of a better word) strategy.

It also means humans/aliens are more likely to be surpised by a well placed ambush of turrets or acid instead of being able to just charge forward and using radar/bugdar to locate and avoid traps. I like being surprised.

The helmet/bugdar should show members of the same side to help facilitate coordinated attacks. Seems like this would make coordination easier (it already does this?).

I don't think this should be gloom either.

[Godmil]

Grenades:

I have a feeling we might play with the idea in a later patch....

He's only saying that cause he's already made the model  

as for getting behind the scenes in my map... thats because just before I releaced that build I replaced the playerclips brushes with my super improved antiplayer-antiwallwalking brushes...
After I noticed the problem I went into the code and thought: "wonder when I added that nonsolid parameter :/

Doh!

thanks for all the feedback and ideas Froggy

[Molog]

Just adding this here: the tesla coil sound is horribly annoying.

[Ac1]

report:

+ The cannon is over powered.  8)  Something like this kind of weapon
   should be a base-clearer. Not a team clear.  :wink:    
   - How about the weapon has to be charged up before firing? like few
     secs or so. also the grunt should stand-still before he blows up
     stuff. :)

+ Bugs are fun but wallwalking is confusing. I can get used to it,    
   but a smoother methed of rotating will be better.


+ Building, AHHHHHHH!
   - Teams need more points. Try it next version. Plz!

   - I don't like the way the menu is set up. standing still,    
   well in the building menu is bad. Mostly if your running away and
   accidently press the fire key(You can't get out of it fast eather).

   - Alien buildings seem too large, working badly for there causes.  
     If they are about half sized, it may affect gameplay for the  
     best?

   - The overmind ls large. Don't think thats a problem. but mappers will  
      have to make room for it.  :P

Not bad for this build. But human's weapon damage needs to be evened out. Even if the Aliens can easly avoid them on the confuzing walls.  :wink:

[Timbo]

report:

+ The cannon is over powered.    Something like this kind of weapon
   should be a base-clearer. Not a team clear.  :wink:

You can't have one without the other, unless you start paper, rock and scissors style balancing. I'm not doing that.

 
   - How about the weapon has to be charged up before firing? like few
     secs or so. also the grunt should stand-still before he blows up
     stuff.

It does need to be charged up for a second currently. I might lengthen this, but not significantly.

 
+ Bugs are fun but wallwalking is confusing. I can get used to it,    
   but a smoother methed of rotating will be better.

:roll: Such as?

 
+ Building, AHHHHHHH!
   - Teams need more points. Try it next version. Plz!

This is set per map, but currently no maps set it so it uses the game default, which I feel is about right for most maps. You don't want to give each team an excessive number of build points or they will build inpenetrable bases.

 
   - I don't like the way the menu is set up. standing still,    
   well in the building menu is bad. Mostly if your running away and
   accidently press the fire key(You can't get out of it fast eather).

Learn not to hit the fire button as alien builder.

 
   - Alien buildings seem too large, working badly for there causes.  
     If they are about half sized, it may affect gameplay for the  
     best?

I don't really understand why you think this is a problem.

 
Not bad for this build. But human's weapon damage needs to be evened out. Even if the Aliens can easly avoid them on the confuzing walls.  :wink:

Each weapon's damage approximately reflects how much it costs to purchase.

[Molog]

More initial feedback.

The cannon fires bolts that move slower than a player. Kinda weird to fire and be hit in the back by your own weapon. You can also charge and fire regular at the same time. Charged cannon is also a bitch for aliens. Large aliens get fried up close and small aliens die anyway because of aoe damage.

Tesla coils and turrets can make a single entrance room difficult to take. You're dead before you can do any damage up close.

There needs to be a warning when your base is under attack. A few aliens/humans can quikly destroy a base, kinda lame to lose your base and not even know about it till too late.

Humans and aliens to a lesser degree have a few building points short to make good forward bases.

Mofo is a little slow, one human with shotgun can hurt this guy hard. Dragoon, soldier, hydra? are all good. Chimera doesn't seem to get used much.

Ac1: There are some options for wallwalking. Made my wallwalking less confusing.

[Who]

Tesla coils and turrets can make a single entrance room difficult to take. You're dead before you can do any damage up close.

That's why it's called base defense.

There needs to be a warning when your base is under attack. A few aliens/humans can quikly destroy a base, kinda lame to lose your base and not even know about it till too late.

Shouldn't have left your base undefended.

Humans and aliens to a lesser degree have a few building points short to make good forward bases.

Building points are determined by mappers.

[Ac1]

let me think of a way to explain this...

So... If your looking straight up, that will be 90* up. If your looking strate down, that will be -90* .  And if your centred looking forward, that will be 0*.
So if your quickly wallwalking on wall's that changes its plain. You lose what will be considered looking straight up, down, or forward.
Getting a player very confused.

Just think of a plane, it has that gauge that tells what way the gravity is going. So if you pitch up, it will show that.   If you roll its will roll the little plane in the gauge from where the ground is.  
 Trem needs some way of telling a Alien player what way its facing and what way will get it to the direction it wants to go.

If you are on a plain that is on... say the "x" plain, then quickly move to a "Y"  wall, then on a "Z" your angles will be all Screwed up.

So Trem needs a Sensor that tells what way is "Up, down, and forward"

I think if a bar told what angle your facing on the pitch will help.
A better way is a line that tells where you'll move if you keep holding the forward key.  

You get all that?

[OverFlow]

I think a lot of it is just getting used to it.  Because right now Im very comfortable with walkwalking except on the bumpest of walls.

Again, also try playing with the settings:  pitch speed, and auto pitch adjust.  (I think thats what they're called)

Personally, I like a fast speed with auto pitching off.  I think most people will like no autopitching as well.  And perhaps the speed should start out slow, and as you get better, increase.