Author Topic: So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).  (Read 22978 times)

Stof

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Re: Number of kills is not always match victory.
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2006, 07:46:52 pm »
Quote from: "jal"
Quote from: "Stof"
You know, you do NOT have to wait for aliens to reach s3 before winning the game.

I assume both teams are skilled enough to have a interesting game. If I can rush them easy then I try to find better challenge.

I'll continue. You know, there is something between stage 1 and stage 3. It's called stage 2 and it is when humans have to win the game. They can reach stage 3 if they want but doing so should only happen as a byproduct of completly owning the alien base with stage 2 tech.

If your definition of interesting game is everybody on stage 3 with humans stuck for 40 minutes in their base by hordes of tyrants until they manage a lucky counter attack or SD catches them cold, then we do not have the same notion of what is an interesting game ;)
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Kobrakai

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2006, 12:31:15 am »
1) What?

2) what?

3) What?

4) Huh?

5) what the...?

6) What's going on damnit!

You lost me after you started using numbers. Don't get me wrong, it seems like important, tedious work, but couldn't you spend your time a better way, like actually playing Tremulous a bit more?  :P
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Kolaris

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2006, 04:02:59 am »
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
You are quite the dumb fellow, seriously. Your barrage of statistics does not impress me, nor anyone else. Maybe be you should play Tremulous, instead of look at it's statistics, since they are false. Lack of player skill still ruins the stats.

[edit] omg typo hunt


How are the stats false...? Are you saying they somehow lie?

All of you saying aliens win more because they have the skilled players are ignorant.

1) Statistically if you flip a coin a few times it may seem heads comes up more, flip it many times and it will come up roughly the same for both sides. Sure the aliens may get stacked teams for a few games, but it would be impossible that all skilled players pick aliens every time.

2) If these skilled players only play aliens (as you say), then there must be some players that only play humans. Given that they both devote the same time to their respective sides, why are the human experts failing against the alien experts? Could that show some flaw in the games learning curve for both sides? And aren't the humans supposed to be the easier to learn?

TyrranzzX

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2006, 12:27:29 pm »
All the stats show are tendancies for one side or another to be unbalanced, and because those stats change from map-to-map, and each map is different, you can come to some basic conclusions about where the game is rough and where it isn't.

They take into account skill, teamstacking, uneven teams; the whole shebang accept for a few points which I pointed out.  Saying they don't is illogical since every game has been accounted for; computers don't discriminate.

And sure, we can go on and on about what skill is until the sun grows silent, but the fact of the matter is, skilled players are there for one thing, and that thing is fun.  What they do with their time depends on what they feel they're upto; some build, others fight, and still others sneak into the enemy base with a jetpack, nade and painsaw and start taking down eggs.  What it comes right down to is that no matter how perfect your base is, no matter how many eggs you chop down, and no matter how many kills you manage to get, if your team sucks relative to their team, you're going to lose.  Everyone contributes, and anyone can be the point of failure for a team.  




It is nice to see I'm not fighting a horde of zombies who have an incapacity to use reason in their day-to-day activities.  :X

Aside from that, a few things to note.  

Mappers wouldn't have to heavily edit their maps; they'd have to place their buildings in slightly different spots; it's something that'd take 30 minutes, max, per map to do and anyone can do it, even server admins and the maps would remain serverside.

Most of the changes I'v proposed are easy to make; there's no major time investment necissary accept for editing a few values in a few files.  Nothing is added, nothing is subtracted.  Anyone with a server can impliment them and see what happens.
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raf

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2006, 01:21:52 pm »
Quote from: "Kolaris"

How are the stats false...? Are you saying they somehow lie?

All of you saying aliens win more because they have the skilled players are ignorant.

1) Statistically if you flip a coin a few times it may seem heads comes up more, flip it many times and it will come up roughly the same for both sides. Sure the aliens may get stacked teams for a few games, but it would be impossible that all skilled players pick aliens every time.

2) If these skilled players only play aliens (as you say), then there must be some players that only play humans. Given that they both devote the same time to their respective sides, why are the human experts failing against the alien experts? Could that show some flaw in the games learning curve for both sides? And aren't the humans supposed to be the easier to learn?

Stats never "lie", there are just various ways to interpret them.
As far as i can see more experienced players tend to see the humans as the stronger part (me too), maybe just think a few minutes why it is mainly the new/inexperienced ppl that complain about aliens being to strong.

concerning
1)
may i suggest attending a probability theory lecture? what you wrote is just plain stupid.

2)
as people get more experienced they tend to play aliens instead of humans, that is at least what i observed

DASPRiD

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2006, 01:35:11 pm »
Quote from: "TyrranzzX"
Quote from: "paradox"



Aliens win more because they are harder, and more expirenced players play alien. When all the old players go hummie, no alien stands a chance.



If you would take the time to read what I wrote, you'd find I'v statistically disprooven this statement because if they were more experienced, they'd be getting more kills.  Instead what happens is experienced players play both sides, switching teams back and forth when they get board of one playstyle.  Additionally, they cannot select their team 100% of the time; they either wait for someone to go on the opposing team and hope they hit the bind key faster than someone else, or they go on whatever team needs players.  It's not like they magically can switch to the alien team.


False. I always get more kills as human instead of playing aliens. You can simply take more down as a human, but only kills doesn't count in this game. Also, I prefer aliens, like many other experienced gamers. And it's there is really no ballance issue:

If I join Aliens, they win most of the game (as long as there aren't too many newbies in the team). Same is for Humans. If I join them, they'll win most of the games. It's all about skill, most humans simply don't attack the aliens' base. I always try to even take OM down in S1 (everytime with painsaw), and most of the time it works. If not in S1, then in S2 or S3.

For more statistics on this, see here:

http://tremstats.dasprids.de/player_details.php?player_id=13
url=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mail%40dasprids%2ede&item_name=DASPRiD%27s&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=EUR&lc=DE&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8][/url]

player12345

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2006, 12:42:58 am »
NOTE : i didnt read all the posts /NOTE

The Overmind Argument :

I personally dont think increase OM time and hp to that length is a good idea, but i would think that the aliens should depend on OM more. A suggestion i have is that alien regernation stops when OM is down, this will help alot of egg hunts and mara, tyrant hunts. It makes more sense for a human to rush against a OM, because in current tremulous, good players go for eggs because they knew, even if OM down, the aliens still fight just as good with or without OM.

battlesuit problem:

the battlesuit is never designed to go against tyrants, its more for suicide rushing against s2 aliens. The game is designed to give the human upper hand when they get s2 and aliens in s1 and s3.

Why aliens win more than Human

the biggest problem i see is that the human HAVE to go IN TEAMS, whereas aliens dont.
In most trem games, there are usually 1 or 2 really good players in each team, but 1 or 2 good humans isnt good enough to completely wipe out aliens against decent alien teams, whereas all it takes is 1 good aliens to call reac down/ nodes down/ turrets down / DC down to end the human team

jal

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2006, 01:42:22 am »
Quote from: "player12345"

the biggest problem i see is that the human HAVE to go IN TEAMS, whereas aliens dont.
In most trem games, there are usually 1 or 2 really good players in each team, but 1 or 2 good humans isnt good enough to completely wipe out aliens against decent alien teams, whereas all it takes is 1 good aliens to call reac down/ nodes down/ turrets down / DC down to end the human team


But... aliens do teamplay! It consists in making turns to attack the human base so they don't block each other :P

Quote from: "player12345"

Why aliens win more than Human

I honestly think this is just because sudden death is an all alien thing. By SD time humans might know of a bunch of egg placements, but most likely don't know all, so attacking is uncertain, while aliens have very clear where they have to inflict damage to get the win. Also, once the armory is lost, humans can't upgrade anymore, while aliens can rebuild om and keep upgrading until the last egg is destroyed. This ends in Tyrants vs rifles situation, which is clearly unbalanced.

I don't think aliens in s3 are any superior to humans either, but aliens most likely can have an scape where humans don't. Don't let them build eggs too far of om (I don't mean as short as for humans, but limited) and it will work much better.

Kolaris

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2006, 06:49:22 am »
Quote from: "raf"
Quote from: "Kolaris"

How are the stats false...? Are you saying they somehow lie?

All of you saying aliens win more because they have the skilled players are ignorant.

1) Statistically if you flip a coin a few times it may seem heads comes up more, flip it many times and it will come up roughly the same for both sides. Sure the aliens may get stacked teams for a few games, but it would be impossible that all skilled players pick aliens every time.

2) If these skilled players only play aliens (as you say), then there must be some players that only play humans. Given that they both devote the same time to their respective sides, why are the human experts failing against the alien experts? Could that show some flaw in the games learning curve for both sides? And aren't the humans supposed to be the easier to learn?

Stats never "lie", there are just various ways to interpret them.
As far as i can see more experienced players tend to see the humans as the stronger part (me too), maybe just think a few minutes why it is mainly the new/inexperienced ppl that complain about aliens being to strong.

concerning
1)
may i suggest attending a probability theory lecture? what you wrote is just plain stupid.

2)
as people get more experienced they tend to play aliens instead of humans, that is at least what i observed


Sigh. Sure, anything is possible. I don't live my daily life thinking tha absurd however. And it is absurd to think skilled players go aliens every time. Statistically you play enough games and the skill level should level out. Why is that so hard to believe?

techhead

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2006, 04:28:52 pm »
Another problem is that when the humans attack and start pwning in Stage 2, half the attack force turns around and heads back the second they hit Stage 3.
Then the good players eventually get overwhelmed and the noobs are the only ones with any money.
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TyrranzzX

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2006, 02:32:30 am »
1:  Singles Vs Teams.

The primary issue with the consept of the humans being more powerful in teams and the aliens being more powerful in 1-on-1 is that not only does it make small game counts favor the aliens, but it also makes large game counts favor the humans, exclusivly.  Additionally, it forces smaller maps to be favored by humans because the proximitry of the bases forces clogs in hallways which, in turn, would favor the humans.  Large, spider-web like maps would favor the aliens because they would be more apt to attack single exploring players who are trying to locate eggspam or the alien installation.

This would be true 100% of the time, if and only if the humans didn't run out of ammo so darn quick.  That's a major part of why they lose S3VS3 on large maps; you run into 2 or 3 guerilla attacks as a team and you're out.

It reminds me of an old RTS game called Total Annihilation whereas the ARM had the best bang-for-buck with level 1 units and therefor, was better able to rush the Core base during earlier stages and take territory during early stages of the game.  One tank, the flash tank, was extremly effective on medium sized maps because you could rush the core and deprive them of resources.

Once the Core hit Level 2 units, the Arm was severly outgunned by the Cores larger tanks and better offensive structures.  Between 2 evenly pitted players on a medium sized map inwhich both sides were identical, the core would win more often than not because of the better units.

More importantly, no game that anyone has played revolved strictly around teamplay; tribes is one such example of one of the most challenging game series out there and it strictly wasn't teamplay.  Teamplay is important, but shouldn't be required to be in pubs.  If it is, then a GUI such as what planetside has or even the voice chat system natrual selection has is required to give the team needing to organize a chance to do so.

2:
Quote from: "Player12345"


the battlesuit is never designed to go against tyrants, its more for suicide rushing against s2 aliens. The game is designed to give the human upper hand when they get s2 and aliens in s1 and s3.

 
Then how do you stop 5 tyrants in a 5V5 game?

You can't, that's the problem.  You don't know where they are, and if you did, then you'd have to go at them 1 by 1.  When the aliens have 5 tyrants, and the humans 5 battlesuits with luci cannons or whatever weapon the wielder wants, they still can't win against that many tyrants unless they're all coming from one direction.  Then you can pretty much rifle them down 1 by 1 with 5 players.  in an open area you're screwed.

The tyrants know where you are and are going to come in wave after wave and kick your butt.  You can try defending, but in OT you're going to get bogged down and killed.



Quote from: "DASPRiD"


If I join Aliens, they win most of the game (as long as there aren't too many newbies in the team). Same is for Humans. If I join them, they'll win most of the games. It's all about skill, most humans simply don't attack the aliens' base. I always try to even take OM down in S1 (everytime with painsaw), and most of the time it works. If not in S1, then in S2 or S3.



You would imply that if you played against a team of skilled players, you'd always have the same outcome.

Did I mention the stats quoted includes all games played, including all scenario's whereas the humans/aliens were stacked and were even?

Quote from: "techead"

Another problem is that when the humans attack and start pwning in Stage 2, half the attack force turns around and heads back the second they hit Stage 3.
Then the good players eventually get overwhelmed and the noobs are the only ones with any money.


Usually the attack force turns around due to running out of ammo and the aliens really don't re-establish themselves.  More importantly, if one team is near S3 then the other team usually is as well, and that means they have as many kills and therefor as many credits or evo points as the other to invest.
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Thrash

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2006, 11:44:26 pm »
Don't get me wrong, your stats may well prove that aliens win more games to to balancing issues and whatnot.

However, i assume these statistics are based on a normal day-to-day pick up game as opposed to a more serious game between groups of skilled players that understand how to play effectively. In said games, the humans tend to have the potential to destroy aliens with only a small bit of coordination. It really dosent take much focus fire to take down even the largest targets on the alien team. And yes, the humans outnumber the aliens in this situation, but that is the point. Not often are humans facing more than two or three large aliens at one time. So, teamwork is the key to humans victory. And teamwork is most likely not going to be found in any large degree in a normal game.

Stof

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2006, 12:00:34 am »
Quote from: "Thrash"
Don't get me wrong, your stats may well prove that aliens win more games to to balancing issues and whatnot.

However, i assume these statistics are based on a normal day-to-day pick up game as opposed to a more serious game between groups of skilled players that understand how to play effectively. In said games, the humans tend to have the potential to destroy aliens with only a small bit of coordination. It really dosent take much focus fire to take down even the largest targets on the alien team. And yes, the humans outnumber the aliens in this situation, but that is the point. Not often are humans facing more than two or three large aliens at one time. So, teamwork is the key to humans victory. And teamwork is most likely not going to be found in any large degree in a normal game.

During the TremLeague, Aliens won every single game. Aliens can teamwork too you know. And when you say that the human team has the potential to destroy the alien base with a little teamwork, I'll retort that each alien has the potential to destroy the human base alone at stage 1.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Thrash

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2006, 12:11:10 am »
Lol damn u Stof. But seriously, i was not aware of the TremLeague Alien ownage, if i was i more than likely would not have even posted this. My past post was based on personal experience, and i apologize for my ignorance.

dude11235

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2006, 12:58:40 am »
How about NO!!! :x  :evil:  This idea is so retarded, the reason aliens always win, is because (most of the time) new people tend to go to the human team because, in game quote, "Alien team suks".

P.S. Humans lost that game.

jal

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« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2006, 02:01:42 am »
Aliens win cause sudden death is unbalanced.

player12345

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« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2006, 04:26:17 am »
It actually might be because humans are HARDER to play than alliens.

I know, this sounds ridiculous but hear me out:

What does alliens needes to learn to because a decent player: headbite/aim
yes, once u master the headbite, alliens becomes very easy to play. Now, if we compare the pros, the only noticeable difference is probably how they move and able to predict enemy movement, but the basic principle is the same, aim for the head, simple.

What does humans need to learn to get out the newb stage:
1) aim
2) movement/dodge/dance
3) timing ( know the right time to camp and the right time to rush)

1) is modernate diffcult, because aim is only effective against small aliens but they are so darn small so it requires modernate FPS skill at least

> If u can aim, u are no longer a newb alien  <
but humans takes more than aiming

2) this is a bit harder, its going to take quite to bit of time to learn how different alliens attack and their patterns, and takes even more time to learn how to dodge them. And the worst part is , there is a limit on how well you can dance, once u hit that point, ur done, its gonna be very harder to be able to dodge better.

3) this , IMO is most diffcult, if u rush too much, u lose, camp too much, u lose as well. A balance between the two is not gonna be easy to find , especaill for a newb that gets called feeder or camper every game they play.

holyknight

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2006, 04:29:08 am »
Quote
What does humans need to learn to get out the newb stage:
1) aim
2) movement/dodge/dance
3) timing ( know the right time to camp and the right time to rush)

lol im all that except number 3. I'm just too impatient to camp. One time everyone yelled at me to camp so I stayed in and I got sooooooo bored :P

And dude, I agree with you, all the new players will basically go to humans because it is more simple and alien is pretty complex (example? Me.)

Radiohead

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« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2006, 05:31:35 am »
That's true, most beginning players pick humans, maybe because they are ranged, and you have the ability to camp. Now days you see more elite players use aliens, because once they hit s3, they get so hard to kill, since they get that fat animal known as the tyrant that can kill you with 2 swipes even with a battlesuit.

Stof

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« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2006, 09:19:39 am »
Quote from: "Radiohead"
That's true, most beginning players pick humans, maybe because they are ranged, and you have the ability to camp. Now days you see more elite players use aliens, because once they hit s3, they get so hard to kill, since they get that fat animal known as the tyrant that can kill you with 2 swipes even with a battlesuit.

3 swipes to kill a battlesuit, not two.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

jal

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« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2006, 12:37:43 pm »
Quote from: "generic from comments above"
That's true, most beginning players pick humans


Maybe true. Not everyone at human team is newb, tho, but sometimes they get 3 or 4 newb builders each one building weird things. It's sign of imminent disaster.

Anyway, even if newbs, when humans reach s3, if aliens find their base not-so-easy to attack, you soon see a team-chat saying: "collect evos for SD" or similar. This is a gameplay corruption caused by the unbalance of SD, cause it guarantees alien success. I have a list with 3 or 4 things I believe should be fixed in the gameplay, most of them debatable, but I think this one is a must-fix under any POV.

Survivor

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« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2006, 01:01:47 pm »
A single human being able to sneak out at sd and killing om and/or eggs is equally devastating if not more.
I’m busy. I’ll ignore you later.

jal

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« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2006, 01:47:31 pm »
Do we really play the same game?
The first goal of alien team in SD will be the armory. It doesn't matter if it's a kamikaze attack, as long as the armory falls. Once the armory is down, each human that dies will not be able to buy weapons nor armor anymore, while aliens will be able to evolve into tyrants until last egg is down.
Can a human sneak and destroy alien spawns? Yeah, once in a thousand of games.

Stof

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« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2006, 02:02:49 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
A single human being able to sneak out at sd and killing om and/or eggs is equally devastating if not more.

Wrong, killing the OM during SD is hardly devastating for the aliens. Only eggs matter.

During SD, when attacking the alien base, my priority is eggs, turrets, trapper and only then OM. You might wonder why I place turrets before the OM. It's because OM can be replaced and not turrets, and turrets do indeed hinder a lot the attacks one can do on the alien base. Not mentioning that we might very soon be required to make naked rifle runs on the alien base and that a few acid tubes will kill naked humans very very fast.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

temple

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« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2006, 02:42:13 pm »
Quote from: "Stof"
Quote from: "Survivor"
A single human being able to sneak out at sd and killing om and/or eggs is equally devastating if not more.

Wrong, killing the OM during SD is hardly devastating for the aliens. Only eggs matter.

During SD, when attacking the alien base, my priority is eggs, turrets, trapper and only then OM. You might wonder why I place turrets before the OM. It's because OM can be replaced and not turrets, and turrets do indeed hinder a lot the attacks one can do on the alien base. Not mentioning that we might very soon be required to make naked rifle runs on the alien base and that a few acid tubes will kill naked humans very very fast.

I disagree.  Hit the OM and then go on the offensive.  No defenses and the aliens can't evolve into OMGTYRANTS.  Actually, killing the OM is a sure fire victory when if humans rush afterwards.  You only have to deal with dretches until the OM goes back up.

Stof

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« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2006, 02:55:40 pm »
Quote from: "temple"
I disagree.  Hit the OM and then go on the offensive.  No defenses and the aliens can't evolve into OMGTYRANTS.  Actually, killing the OM is a sure fire victory when if humans rush afterwards.  You only have to deal with dretches until the OM goes back up.

I wasn't aware that killing the OM would instantly transform all aliens to dretches.

Killing the OM might help you in the short run, but if the aliens replace it before you have the time to kill something else, all you've managed was to get 300 credits at the cost of your equipment. Killing turrets one after the other means that each successive human attack will be more effective.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

jal

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« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2006, 03:31:02 pm »
Quote from: "Stof"
Killing the OM might help you in the short run, but if the aliens replace it before you have the time to kill something else(...)

And it doesn't even matter where you build it. It just needs to stay alive the right time to allow the aliens to evolve. You'll have time to build it again later.
Not to mention that the human, in most cases, has to be able to sneak between tyrants. Not impossible, but he needs some luck to not be damaged in his way, and om needs some time* to die. And, to add to the human dificulties, he'd need to return to base alive (most likely sneaking tyrants again?), cause if he dies, he probably won't have armory where to spend his credits (the more attacks he has to do, the higher the chances he won't have armory at spawning).

Nothing of these is impossible, but you need a combo of luck & skill, or a good devastating human rush to suceed, while aliens don't need any of these.

*Edit: and all your ammo.

Stof

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2006, 04:11:15 pm »
Even worse, I was in a game in gloom2b where humans were somehow surviving the aliens during SD. At some point during the alien siege, we manage to kill enouth tyrants to mount a proper counter attack.

We lost the game because the 3 cashless humans left to defend the base could do NOTHING to stop a lone adv goon from sniping the armory. Not only have humans to mount a complex organised counter attack to win during SD, but they also must leave a good fighting force in their base to prevent it from beeing destroyed by a lone adv goon or tyrant that got behind the attacking force :/
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

temple

  • Posts: 534
  • Turrets: +37/-42
So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2006, 04:39:16 pm »
Quote from: "Stof"
Quote from: "temple"
I disagree.  Hit the OM and then go on the offensive.  No defenses and the aliens can't evolve into OMGTYRANTS.  Actually, killing the OM is a sure fire victory when if humans rush afterwards.  You only have to deal with dretches until the OM goes back up.

I wasn't aware that killing the OM would instantly transform all aliens to dretches.

Killing the OM might help you in the short run, but if the aliens replace it before you have the time to kill something else, all you've managed was to get 300 credits at the cost of your equipment. Killing turrets one after the other means that each successive human attack will be more effective.

If you kill the overmind, everything else is happen stance.  Sure, if your team sucks and allows a roaming tyrant to maul everyone over and over, you're screwed.  With the OM down, aliens (should) stop attacking the base in fear of dying and becoming a dretch.  There will be nothing to stop you from finding the eggs.  If a human team can't supress grangers from putting a BIG ASS OVERMIND back up, they deserve to lose.

I play Aliens all the time and I know what it is like to lose an OM.  Eggs, well, you will lose eggs and pray humans can't find them.  But an OM is hard to hide and losing it forces aliens to play conservative or they become dretches.  IFyou  knock the OM out, you don't have much to stop you from taking out the eggs.  But trying to take out the eggs with the OM up means you have everything to worry about.

jal

  • Posts: 249
  • Turrets: +8/-7
So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2006, 05:00:06 pm »
Quote from: "temple"
With the OM down, aliens (should) stop attacking the base in fear of dying and becoming a dretch.

TBH, when I play alien, if OM is killed during SD I don't even bother worring for a second. In most cases, I bet the alien team doesn't even notice if the OM was killed or not until someone spawns and finds he can't evolve.

Well, it also depends on the map, ofc. Killing OM might compensate at ATCS, but I've never seen any trouble with it being rebuilt at any other.