Author Topic: What if? (Read 8239 times)

Undeference · « **on:** November 19, 2006, 03:16:48 am »

I know, I know...
But what if some things were changed just a little to make Tremulous a little more realistic? Now I'm not talking about better physics (although that would be nice) or anything that would be difficult to change, just some things that might cause Tremulous-related dreams to be more nightmarish and not having ponies and fuzzy bunnies hopping in fields of poppies (I think I have a script for a movie...).

The stamina is screwed up. You can sprint to the end of the map and back and be barely out of stamina, but you can't jump 4 times in a row. This might make a little bit of sense on maps with high gravity and really low air pressure (though, that would make breathing harder, shortening your sprint time even more). Can this be upgraded to maybe 10 jumps?

Aliens should have stamina. It should effect most classes almost never since most classes can't sprint. But a tyrant can charge... and keep going... and charge again... In reality, large animals that can go really fast can only do so for a short amount of time (the current charge is fine), and exert themselves pretty quickly and have to stop or slow down.

Gravity doesn't effect aliens? You'd think a tyrant falling 30 stories should at least stub its toe. But it barely hurts a normal granger. And yet a human dies instantly.

It takes a damn long time to kill teammates at point blank range into their heads. Maybe we shouldn't encourage team killing, but a stray bullet from an SMG entering a teammates brain should kill or disable him 98% of the time. And a few shotgun pellets to the back should at least take away some of his stamina. (The way to do this would be either increasing damage done only to teammates or increasing the damage of all of the weapons and increasing alien health.)

Anything else?

Caveman · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2006, 04:27:56 am »

I think you got all points covered and for the first time I can really say I like your suggestions.

1337 1 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2006, 07:21:48 am »

The idea behind the aliens (in theory) is that they're used to falling and running. I agree that they should, when falling rediculous heights, suffer damage, but I can see why the devs made it like that.

And I COMPLETELY agree about the jumping problem with the humies. So fscking stupid. Increase the jumping counter please.

Kaleo · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2006, 07:27:21 am »

Do I agree?

Yes!

Artman Agrees! Agree TODAY

PHREAK · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2006, 07:43:39 am »

I agree with alien stemina and human jumps and maybe alien fall damage.
Increasing FF damage is something I highy dislike for simple reasons.
It's hard enough dancing with a goon or tyrant while being shot in the back as it is. Increase DMG and trem ceases to be a teamgame for hummies. (the only way for humans to win IMO)
While you might say that humans should aim better, public games and the fact that trem doesnt sport reallife accuracy in weapon handling make FF very powerfull as it is.

Lets please leave it as it is.

Dersaidin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2006, 07:52:09 am »

Quote from: "Undeference"

Aliens should have stamina. It should effect most classes almost never since most classes can't sprint. But a tyrant can charge... and keep going... and charge again... In reality, large animals that can go really fast can only do so for a short amount of time (the current charge is fine), and exert themselves pretty quickly and have to stop or slow down.

Gravity doesn't effect aliens? You'd think a tyrant falling 30 stories should at least stub its toe. But it barely hurts a normal granger. And yet a human dies instantly.

What if aliens come from a world where gravity is 1.5 times ours? Then in our gravity they'd be... superhuman.. but alien... superalien.

Even if they are from a place with the same gravity, a cat can fall 30 stories and live, it is adapted and instinctively knows how to absorb the impact.

Trem physics = Q3 physics = awesome gameplay

As for sprint adjustments, the problem is that sprints are done in units (those three bars). If sprint charge was one continuous bar, then you could use smaller portions for jumping, and have a constant drain when running a long way. (See Wolfenstien: Enemy Territory aka best game ever)

Stof · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2006, 10:08:10 am »

Quote from: "Dersaidin"

As for sprint adjustments, the problem is that sprints are done in units (those three bars). If sprint charge was one continuous bar, then you could use smaller portions for jumping, and have a constant drain when running a long way.

You don't really know what you are talking about you know

The DISPLAY of the stamina left shows three bars. But internaly the stamina is continuous. Heck, did you try running for a while and see that the each bar gets more and more transparent as you use stamina?

Undeference · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2006, 10:52:11 am »

Quote from: "Dersaidin"

What if aliens come from a world where gravity is 1.5 times ours? Then in our gravity they'd be... superhuman.. but alien... superalien.

At a certain size, the mass of the required support becomes too great. Simply, with too much gravity, a tyrant would not be able to move without breaking its bones.

I'm used to Earth's gravity, but it doesn't mean I'd jump 30 stories.

Quote

Even if they are from a place with the same gravity, a cat can fall 30 stories and live, it is adapted and instinctively knows how to absorb the impact.

A cat can fall 30 stories and walk away without injury because it slows its fall and can prepare to land properly. However, cats tend to get seriously injured falling from 2 stories.
And have you seen a tyrant trying to twist like a cat?

raf · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2006, 11:12:13 am »

Quote from: "Undeference"

Simply, with too much gravity, a tyrant would not be able to move without breaking its bones.

bones?

Neo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2006, 12:10:47 pm »

Stof, as you use stamina each bar fades and disappears. That's what he's referring to not that it operates in 3 distinct units.

Stamina should stay as it is as you can't run the entire length of a map before you black out, let alone back again. Unless you run some kind of stamina mod or are running a really small map.

As a sidenote: avoid exaggerating as it hampers a serious argument.

Stof · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2006, 12:22:14 pm »

Quote from: "Neo"

Stof, as you use stamina each bar fades and disappears. That's what he's referring to not that it operates in 3 distinct units.

I know that, but judging from his post, I don't think he knows that.

temple · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2006, 12:52:44 pm »

Increasing stamina and giving aliens fall damage will not change anything.

Stof · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2006, 02:12:09 pm »

Quote from: "temple"

Increasing stamina and giving aliens fall damage will not change anything.

Good, then we can go for it no? I would love an increase in stamina, or at least, an increase in the number of successive jumps I can do

techhead · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2006, 02:28:03 pm »

In basic military training, don't they make you do an obstacle course?
A course that involves much running and jumping?

Stof · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2006, 04:40:44 pm »

Quote from: "techhead"

In basic military training, don't they make you do an obstacle course?
A course that involves much running and jumping?

I guess the cloning process used to create the human soldiers makes them as weak as 3 month old babies.

SLAVE|Mietz · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2006, 05:24:02 pm »

every time gamers complain about realism, god kills a kitten!

Think of the KITTENS!

techhead · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2006, 05:52:17 pm »

These kitten deaths aren't realistic enough!!!
Needs more gore.

SLAVE|Mietz · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2006, 06:15:28 pm »

Quote from: "techhead"

These kitten deaths aren't realistic enough!!!
Needs more gore.

how you know how god kills a kitten?
Probably he spills lots of blood!

janev · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2006, 07:14:51 pm »

ever think that the limited stamina/fall damage is there for a reason?
if you are a dretch vs humans with light armour do you really want them to be able to jump 10 times?

and do you really want your goon on transit to die every time he jumps down from human start base when being chased?

Neo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2006, 09:23:36 pm »

Well if anyone in military gear could jump a huge amount of times before tiring while kitted out with weapons and stuff it would classify as genetic engineering...

techhead · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2006, 02:33:30 am »

Maybe only 4 or 5 times...
Not too much...

Undeference · « **Reply #21 on:** November 20, 2006, 01:32:53 pm »

At the highest point of a human's jump, a dretch can still get a head shot. It just has to learn how to jump.

Quote from: "janev"

and do you really want your goon on transit to die every time he jumps down from human start base when being chased?

Goons can pounce. Presumably if they can pounce, they can safely land most of the time. A tyrant, on the other hand, can't even jump as high as a human, but can go splat on the ground and walk away. When a human goes splat, that's the sound of his brains meeting the ground.

kozak6 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 20, 2006, 06:42:17 pm »

If Tremulous was more realistic, there shouldn't even be aliens.

I guess it would be ok if humans could jump another time or two, but everything else is a bad suggestion.

Stof · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2006, 06:53:38 pm »

Quote from: "kozak6"

If Tremulous was more realistic, there shouldn't even be aliens.

How do you know that?

I would say that it's much easier to accept impossible or improbable things in a sci fi setting, than accept strange human behaviour.

Not beeing able to jump a 30 cm ledge to save my life from a Tyrant charging after me is hard to accept.

techhead · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2006, 11:37:16 pm »

I know you can jump more than 30 cm in trem.
Those turrets have got to be more than 30 cm tall, or we are midget humans.
Disposing of the midget human theory, people can jump on turrets and thus can jump more than 30 cm.
If we use the midget human theory, then we can apply the Square Cube Law and assume that we would be able to jump higher with the same proportions.

Stof · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2006, 11:40:53 pm »

Quote from: "techhead"

I know you can jump more than 30 cm in trem.

You can jump more than 30 cm in trem, if you have stamina left.

Dersaidin · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2006, 11:00:21 am »

I know it recharges in fractions, but as I remember it, You press sprint, one bar disappears then you sprint for a while. I'm suggesting that you are only expending sprint charge while holding down the button.

You instantly use up 1 bar for a set period of sprinting, instead of many small fractions of a bar throughout the duration of the sprint.

And with the cats/gravity thing, I'm just saying they're alien, their different.
I don't care if its not realistic. Gameplay is far far far more important.

Undeference · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2006, 01:29:56 pm »

The stamina "bars" are graphical elements of the HUD that reflect approximately how much stamina you have left. Stamina is actually a number (MAX_STAMINA is 1000).

I reduced the stamina used for jumps for testing on my server (Betaserv), but unfortunately I haven't been on when other people are, so I don't know how much of a change it makes (you now get about 10 jumps in a row). (If you want to try it, make sure you have downloads enabled. It only has beta maps in rotation and requires a backported svn cgame.)

I haven't done anything about the other stuff yet (this is just the code running on my server, not other servers -- er, actually }MG{ South might have the stamina thing too).

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Author Topic: What if? (Read 8239 times)

Caveman