Author Topic: Yet More Suggestions...  (Read 14712 times)

Orc

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Yet More Suggestions...
« on: January 02, 2007, 04:40:26 pm »
Well given the popular, if not controversial nature of my last suggestion post I've decided to propose a second, more moderate variety of changes.

1. On a variety of maps its a common theme to build lines of turrets, the most effective counter to which is to attack said line from the side. However when a turret takes critical damage, it doesn't explode instantly but rather lingers for several seconds before it explodes, forcing the alien to sit and wait or run and escape while waiting for it to explode. I propose that with a bit of extra damage beyond critical, say half the turrets original hp, that the soon to explode turret could be made to disappear instantly rather than exploding, so a third tyrant slash would cause the turret to disappear fully instead of wait and explode like only 2 would.

2. The nature of the battlesuit seems like it would negate any reliance on the stamina of the operator, but at the same time it seems to be if it was capable of sprint speed, it would operate at that speed all the time, therefore I propose that the battlesuit be incapable of sprint, but capable of unlimited jumping aided by the hydraulics or whatever makes the suit work.

3. I propose that dead humans remain on alien radar for the extent of the time that their body remains in the map(30 seconds?), just because you die doesn't mean you body goes cold, instead it would still register on infared scanners for quite some time after your death. This could also be applied to human radar depending on wether it operates based on heat as well or on motion. The major purpose of this would be to make it more difficult for aliens to camp multiple humans around the same corner, as the bodies would pile up and cause false positives on his radar.

4. As the suggestion of extra build points for a forward base seemed to be rather unpopular, what about a new building, that would cost 20-24 bp be available at s2, take half the time of a reactor to build, zap like a tesla, heal like a medpad, and provide power for itself and surroundings like a repeater. Such a device would do wonders to help the humans on large maps where its unreasonable to expect to get from human to alien base unscathed, giving the aliens a clear advantage by the time you get to their base.

5. Stamina for tyrant charge, I believe tyrants should have a delay between charges of about 5-10 seconds, thereby preventing the all too common super speed escape charge spam. Alternative to a static delay between charges would be a short delay that increases as the tyrant loses health, for example 2 seconds plus 2 more seconds for each 25% health the tyrant is missing, so a full hp tyrant would charge every 2 seconds, about what it is now, a 300-200 hp tyrant would be delayed 4 seconds, a 200-100 tyrant would be delayed 6 seconds, and a 100 or less hp tyrant would be delayed 8 seconds between charges. Inevitably someone will say, "but with that long of a delay how will a weak tyrant escape with charge?" to which I say: he won't, charge shouldn't be a viable escape method for a tyrant with sub 100 health and should be far less useful for a tyrant at half or less health.

6. The tyrant is far too powerful against naked rifles, as the luci is against dretchs. I propose that neither the tyrant nor the luci receives credit/evo for kills of free classes(granger,dretch, unarmored ckit/rifle) I believe this would curb camping of free classes for kills and would instead require more effective use of the most powerful weapons each team has to offer. I mean afterall, if you cant kill anything but dretchs or naked rifles with your tyrant or luci, do you really deserve another?

7. The Luci itself should be changed to be a more powerful seige weapon and less useful for spam, I propose that it only be capable of fully charged shots, which would consume 1 ammo each of a 4 shot maximum, have a cooldown of 4-5 seconds between shots, travel through the air at 50-75% of the speed it does now, and do roughly double the damage over double the radius that it does now. With such a long cooldown and slow velocity, it would become nearly useless for spamming, yet it would be devastating to anything that was unfortunate or fool enough to be anywhere around when it detonated.

And the following are just strange ideas that came to me that would probably have more place in tremx than vanilla trem but since im already here...

8. Chaingun turret. Just what it sounds like, a more powerful turret alternative to the tesla and not requiring a defense computer, aiming like a regular turret, but having the fire rate, and damage(6) of a chaingun, and enough health to require slightly more damage than 2 dragoon barbs to kill. It would have about 25% less spread than a chaingun wielded by a suit, ensuring that it cant snipe dretchs at maximum range every shot, but up close it would be a formidable defense.

9. Tesla gun. Also rather self explanatory, a human weapon costing 500 credits, available at stage3, only wieldable by battlesuit, that would have the cooldown, range, and damage(9) of a tesla, but would require aim similar to adv marauder zap, and would chain onto additional aliens nearby the target, dividing the damage between all affected like the adv marauder zap. Its primary purpose would be against smaller aliens, and would make a particularly nice compliment to the altered Luci proposed (see above)

10. Adv Granger spit, maybe at s2, the capabilities of the adv granger(wall walking and additional structures) should instead be added to the normal granger, and the adv granger should retain all said abilities but cost 1-2 frags, and its spit should freeze similar to a trapper.

11. Slower(tentative name for lack of better), the aliens could get a structure, available at s2, that would function similar to a trapper, but instead of freezing them it would slow their movement speed by 50%, an effect which would last until they touched a medpad, which would both slow a rampage through the alien base and allow aliens the chance of catching escaping humans. Alternatively it could be an area effect similar to the acid tube, that slows humans within its range of effect by 50%, leaving a lingering effect on them that continues to slow them by 25% after they leave its range until they touch a medpad.

Well thats all I could think of for now, and this time could we please refrain from posts by Europeans questioning the skill of a player they've never met over changes proposed to a game they clearly know little too little about to effectively comment on. You guys already killed gloom for us, can't you be happy with that and leave trem be?

Greudin

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Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2007, 04:50:26 pm »
greudin@framboise:~$ wc --word
....
1187 words woohoo u rock!!
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Stof

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Re: Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2007, 04:58:06 pm »
Quote from: "Orc"
Well thats all I could think of for now, and this time could we please refrain from posts by Europeans questioning the skill of a player they've never met over changes proposed to a game they clearly know little too little about to effectively comment on. You guys already killed gloom for us, can't you be happy with that and leave trem be?

I would have given my opinion on your changes but seing that only leaves me the choice to delete or lock that topic :evil:

BTW, I don't like your Luci change. Seems to me that the weapon which in it's current form already requires some luck to kill the best alien players will become completly useless. Slower projectile and slower fire rate?
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Survivor

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Re: Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2007, 06:34:06 pm »
Quote from: "Orc"

1. On a variety of maps its a common theme to build lines of turrets, the most effective counter to which is to attack said line from the side. However when a turret takes critical damage, it doesn't explode instantly but rather lingers for several seconds before it explodes, forcing the alien to sit and wait or run and escape while waiting for it to explode. I propose that with a bit of extra damage beyond critical, say half the turrets original hp, that the soon to explode turret could be made to disappear instantly rather than exploding, so a third tyrant slash would cause the turret to disappear fully instead of wait and explode like only 2 would.

Isn't this a gameplay mechanic you'll have to live with? It is indeed impossible to keep on trucking but for 2 tyrants to be able to cut a hole in the line through which the rest can storm instantly as opposed to now where humans have a chance to reform their defense. I think you made this suggestion as a response to the excessive camping but i think it would hurt a team of good players.

Quote from: "Orc"

2. The nature of the battlesuit seems like it would negate any reliance on the stamina of the operator, but at the same time it seems to be if it was capable of sprint speed, it would operate at that speed all the time, therefore I propose that the battlesuit be incapable of sprint, but capable of unlimited jumping aided by the hydraulics or whatever makes the suit work.

First up, trem is not real. Now in gameplay sprinting would be no great loss to the suit if it could jump continuosly and thus make headshots unreliable.
That combined with the fact that most players actually forget that the head of the bs isn't the hitbox head could make it even more annoying.

Quote from: "Orc"

3. I propose that dead humans remain on alien radar for the extent of the time that their body remains in the map(30 seconds?), just because you die doesn't mean you body goes cold, instead it would still register on infared scanners for quite some time after your death. This could also be applied to human radar depending on wether it operates based on heat as well or on motion. The major purpose of this would be to make it more difficult for aliens to camp multiple humans around the same corner, as the bodies would pile up and cause false positives on his radar.

I can see the use for the humans in this. But a dead alien emitting heat is not half as influent on a human player's choice as a dead human around the corner emitting heat.

Quote from: "Orc"

4. As the suggestion of extra build points for a forward base seemed to be rather unpopular, what about a new building, that would cost 20-24 bp be available at s2, take half the time of a reactor to build, zap like a tesla, heal like a medpad, and provide power for itself and surroundings like a repeater. Such a device would do wonders to help the humans on large maps where its unreasonable to expect to get from human to alien base unscathed, giving the aliens a clear advantage by the time you get to their base.

Say no to mega structures. What you suggest is a 10 bp tesla, 8 bp medpad and a repeater in one structure which is suited ONLY for forward bases for the cost of 20 to 24% of the total standard bp pool. This is a structure suited to a single style of playing. I won't comment any further since I am biased against forward bases but could you add your idea for hp and availability within powerrange for clarity's sake?

Quote from: "Orc"

5. Stamina for tyrant charge, I believe tyrants should have a delay between charges of about 5-10 seconds, thereby preventing the all too common super speed escape charge spam. Alternative to a static delay between charges would be a short delay that increases as the tyrant loses health, for example 2 seconds plus 2 more seconds for each 25% health the tyrant is missing, so a full hp tyrant would charge every 2 seconds, about what it is now, a 300-200 hp tyrant would be delayed 4 seconds, a 200-100 tyrant would be delayed 6 seconds, and a 100 or less hp tyrant would be delayed 8 seconds between charges. Inevitably someone will say, "but with that long of a delay how will a weak tyrant escape with charge?" to which I say: he won't, charge shouldn't be a viable escape method for a tyrant with sub 100 health and should be far less useful for a tyrant at half or less health.

Tbh i can see the point in those annoying fleeing tyrants but instead of nerfing them do some teamwork and block their retreat. The tyrant already is a big target and it's path is very predictable since it has no worthwhile jump or wallwalk capability, doing this would get tyrants into trouble quick and out deadfast.

Quote from: "Orc"

6. The tyrant is far too powerful against naked rifles, as the luci is against dretchs. I propose that neither the tyrant nor the luci receives credit/evo for kills of free classes(granger,dretch, unarmored ckit/rifle) I believe this would curb camping of free classes for kills and would instead require more effective use of the most powerful weapons each team has to offer. I mean afterall, if you cant kill anything but dretchs or naked rifles with your tyrant or luci, do you really deserve another?

Reasonable players can take down luci's in a few dretches. Removing the incentive to be careful might as well make the entire alien team stay dretch and starving the humans of credits that way.
4 naked humans can take down a tyrant if they play on a normal level and work together. Hell, use 2 naked humans to block while to armed humans tear away at it and you've got a free barricade as a human. Yet the tyrant would not get any evoes from this dangerous threat?

Quote from: "Orc"

7. The Luci itself should be changed to be a more powerful seige weapon and less useful for spam, I propose that it only be capable of fully charged shots, which would consume 1 ammo each of a 4 shot maximum, have a cooldown of 4-5 seconds between shots, travel through the air at 50-75% of the speed it does now, and do roughly double the damage over double the radius that it does now. With such a long cooldown and slow velocity, it would become nearly useless for spamming, yet it would be devastating to anything that was unfortunate or fool enough to be anywhere around when it detonated.

It would make it even more of a camper weapon. The threat from a luci isn't as much the spam since the bolts are slow as the 250 dmg a full charged shot does.
Now imagine an even slower moving 500 damage double range bolt. Most deaths by luci for me are the ones i get hit from around corners, and they are single bolts. Making it even more powerful and spread just isn't what i'd call ballancing especially since this weapon will kill tyrants in one go. Remember that most luci spam comes from several players at once, not just one and this would be a mobile artillery canon.

Quote from: "Orc"

8. Chaingun turret. Just what it sounds like, a more powerful turret alternative to the tesla and not requiring a defense computer, aiming like a regular turret, but having the fire rate, and damage(6) of a chaingun, and enough health to require slightly more damage than 2 dragoon barbs to kill. It would have about 25% less spread than a chaingun wielded by a suit, ensuring that it cant snipe dretchs at maximum range every shot, but up close it would be a formidable defense.

I'm missing range and bp. And you are supposing a turret which does not have the dc weakness, can take 3 barbs, does 75 damage per second, is more accurate and has neverending ammo? Although I too would like some more defensive structures this one just isn't fully thought out yet.

Quote from: "Orc"

9. Tesla gun. Also rather self explanatory, a human weapon costing 500 credits, available at stage3, only wieldable by battlesuit, that would have the cooldown, range, and damage(9) of a tesla, but would require aim similar to adv marauder zap, and would chain onto additional aliens nearby the target, dividing the damage between all affected like the adv marauder zap. Its primary purpose would be against smaller aliens, and would make a particularly nice compliment to the altered Luci proposed (see above)

Range, timespan of shot. Not enough info to make a worthwhile comment.

Quote from: "Orc"

10. Adv Granger spit, maybe at s2, the capabilities of the adv granger(wall walking and additional structures) should instead be added to the normal granger, and the adv granger should retain all said abilities but cost 1-2 frags, and its spit should freeze similar to a trapper.

I don't see the use. We have a basi which can hold. And making a mobile trapper for 2 evoes might either be under (fast moving humans) or overpowered (spitting at the alien base door) . Really can't say

Quote from: "Orc"

11. Slower(tentative name for lack of better), the aliens could get a structure, available at s2, that would function similar to a trapper, but instead of freezing them it would slow their movement speed by 50%, an effect which would last until they touched a medpad, which would both slow a rampage through the alien base and allow aliens the chance of catching escaping humans. Alternatively it could be an area effect similar to the acid tube, that slows humans within its range of effect by 50%, leaving a lingering effect on them that continues to slow them by 25% after they leave its range until they touch a medpad.

You're suggesting some sort of structure which specializes in creep. Although i can find myself in this i would add this ability to the barricade instead of a seperate structure. expand the barricade's creep somewhat and use your second idea.

Quote from: "Orc"

Well thats all I could think of for now, and this time could we please refrain from posts by Europeans questioning the skill of a player they've never met over changes proposed to a game they clearly know little too little about to effectively comment on. You guys already killed gloom for us, can't you be happy with that and leave trem be?

Do not blame nationality. This comment comes over negative towards europeans and they might respond in kind which will only result in flames.
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Undeference

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Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2007, 08:51:48 pm »
1. Ew. But perhaps the time it takes to explode could be randomized.

2. It seems more realistic to me that bsuits would not be able to jump at all. All sorts of real vehicles have methods for short-term bursts of speed (they usually require extra fuel, so they can be toggled), but very few are capable of quick vertical movement.

3. This sorta goes along with my idea where humans appear slightly differently on the alien sense based on health and/or stamina.

4. Perhaps changing some of the code to enable the possibility of more diverse structures with very little extra code would be good, but I don't like that specific idea.

5. I think charge would have to become more useful in actual combat, since it is currently used primarily for moving quickly. I already suggested stamina for everyone, so I don't disagree with that aspect.

6. This is comparing high level tanks to the lowest level kludge; of course they should be "overpowered". I think the major issue is just going for the weakest things and ignoring the actual purpose of the game, which your suggestion won't change.

7. Having a 4-shot siege engine would be interesting and might actually encourage teamwork. On the other hand, it would probably be used as an overpowered camping weapon.

8, 9. Haven't these been suggested before?

10. "Adv Granger spit now slows players as it was always supposed to"

11. Creep and (now) advanced grangers slow players.
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techhead

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Re: Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2007, 09:11:04 pm »
1. No thanks, try either waiting or dealing with the boom.

2. Battlesuits have a power reserve that is slowly replenished over time. Happy?

3. Make them slowly fade to invisible from moment of death to when the body starts to disappear.

4. No thanks, just build a repeater, Medistation, and Tesla, 20 bp.

5. Not a bad idea, but probably not the solution to the cowardly tyrant problem. On a side note, why can tyrants even jump? Make them walk up larger steps like the big juggernauts they are.

6. No thanks.

7. No thanks, a portable nuke would be better.

8. Make normal turrets have a larger spread and boost the maximum range.

9. No thanks, sounds like a Marauder knockoff.

10. Granger spit slows down humans similar to walking on creep.

11. All alien structures have creep, but barricades have some of the largest and most likely to be walked on. Perhaps that the creep should slow people down more, barricade creep increased, and barricade health boosted.

Also, Gloom has stuff that I wish Trem had.
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Orc

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Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2007, 09:53:14 pm »
damn one of these days im gonna have to learn how to quote specific ppl but oh well here goes...

Quote
I can see the use for the humans in this. But a dead alien emitting heat is not half as influent on a human player's choice as a dead human around the corner emitting heat.


I never intended it to be applied to humans, I only put that there as a sort of disclaimer.

Quote
Say no to mega structures. What you suggest is a 10 bp tesla, 8 bp medpad and a repeater in one structure which is suited ONLY for forward bases for the cost of 20 to 24% of the total standard bp pool. This is a structure suited to a single style of playing. I won't comment any further since I am biased against forward bases but could you add your idea for hp and availability within powerrange for clarity's sake?


It would not be buildable within range of the reactor same as a repeater, and available at s3, and your right it does favor only one style of gameplay, the only competent style if you expect to win on any decently sized map. Forward bases make so much difference in trem its almost overpowered, this device would take the same bp and build time as all 3 individually, it just wouldnt require a ckit to stay around inbetween building each thing.

Quote
Tbh i can see the point in those annoying fleeing tyrants but instead of nerfing them do some teamwork and block their retreat. The tyrant already is a big target and it's path is very predictable since it has no worthwhile jump or wallwalk capability, doing this would get tyrants into trouble quick and out deadfast.


So your assuming that no other tyrants are waiting to cover its retreat, nevermind the fact that it can just go around you because of its racecar quality steering and suspension, an issue i attempted to address in my last proposal.

Quote
Reasonable players can take down luci's in a few dretches. Removing the incentive to be careful might as well make the entire alien team stay dretch and starving the humans of credits that way.
4 naked humans can take down a tyrant if they play on a normal level and work together. Hell, use 2 naked humans to block while to armed humans tear away at it and you've got a free barricade as a human. Yet the tyrant would not get any evoes from this dangerous threat?


I dont know who you play with but nobody halfway skilled is going to lose their luci to individual dretchs, no matter how often they come, dretch swarms maybe, but not individuals, and if you consider 4 naked rifles to be a dangerous threat to your tyrant then I don't know what to say, i would hate to see you actually face something challenging.

Quote
It would make it even more of a camper weapon. The threat from a luci isn't as much the spam since the bolts are slow as the 250 dmg a full charged shot does.
Now imagine an even slower moving 500 damage double range bolt. Most deaths by luci for me are the ones i get hit from around corners, and they are single bolts. Making it even more powerful and spread just isn't what i'd call ballancing especially since this weapon will kill tyrants in one go. Remember that most luci spam comes from several players at once, not just one and this would be a mobile artillery canon.


yes a mobile artillery cannon is exactly what its meant to be, killing a good tyrant with the current luci is extremely hard, more an issue of luck than skill, so why not just make it even better at whats already its only real purpose, and remove any false security it offers towards defeating tyrants.

Quote
Do not blame nationality. This comment comes over negative towards europeans and they might respond in kind which will only result in flames.


I'm only generalizing towards what seemed to be the vast majority of people that had never played a single game with me yet labeled me a noob over suggestions they didnt agree with.

and of course the last few suggestions would probably be better off in tremx which if you have ever played with the xael and surge would know none if it is balanced or well thought out

Quote
6. This is comparing high level tanks to the lowest level kludge; of course they should be "overpowered". I think the major issue is just going for the weakest things and ignoring the actual purpose of the game, which your suggestion won't change.


how wouldnt it change? why would people continue to camp free classes if it gave them no evo and therefor when they died no new class?

Quote
"Adv Granger spit now slows players as it was always supposed to"


im not talking about slowing, im talking about freezing entirely like trapper, and the creep would have a much larger (2-3x normal) radius, slowing them well before they enter your base

AKAnotu

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Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2007, 10:11:41 pm »
1 so now tyrants can take out the entire human defense? :p

2 so your proposing i have to fight, no chance of flight? your denying nature and bsuits who are near their base and about to die p.s. look at me! jumping! no headshots for you!

3 don't care

4 and why should i build this instead of a cheaper tesla repeater and medi?

5 a proposition to kill tyrants. it's not like their totally random, they cant even jump well, and they tend to travel predictaply, so you must be stupid to not hit one anyways

6 so now if i'm smart and make it in the human/alien base, i don't get any evos? p.s. you really hate tyrants, don't you?

7 so OHKO shows up in trem, only now, it is super fast, :p lmao
p.s. your tyrant hating is getting on my nerves

8 changes nothing. now i just need another barb!
ps use it in s3

9. useless. the mara zap wouldn't do enough to make it worth the time

10 so now your screwing over the alien team with more noobs feeding with granger attackers.
 :roll:

11 no. too overpowered. you'll be too slow to escape from any pursuing alien and what if you have a medkit? i don't want to head back to the medstation

12 to top it all off, now your racist p.s. i'm american

Survivor

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Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 10:26:17 pm »
Quote from: "Orc"

It would not be buildable within range of the reactor same as a repeater, and available at s3, and your right it does favor only one style of gameplay, the only competent style if you expect to win on any decently sized map. Forward bases make so much difference in trem its almost overpowered, this device would take the same bp and build time as all 3 individually, it just wouldnt require a ckit to stay around inbetween building each thing.


The fact that you label it as the only competent style is a story of arrogance. Never think there is only one strategy.

Quote from: "Orc"
So your assuming that no other tyrants are waiting to cover its retreat, nevermind the fact that it can just go around you because of its racecar quality steering and suspension, an issue i attempted to address in my last proposal.

So what you're saying is the tyrant should become totally useless?

Quote from: "Orc"
I dont know who you play with but nobody halfway skilled is going to lose their luci to individual dretchs, no matter how often they come, dretch swarms maybe, but not individuals, and if you consider 4 naked rifles to be a dangerous threat to your tyrant then I don't know what to say, i would hate to see you actually face something challenging.

Yes, luci's will be taken down in health and will need to either retreat or die, the ordinary dretch, as long as it doesn't stay at the luci's feet has a reasonable life expectancy for its cost. There are other options beside retreat, ambush or attack. Lure and evade are some nice ones as well.
Also 4 human rifles who actually move smart instead of just standing there or retreating in a straight line are most definately a threat.

Quote from: "Orc"
yes a mobile artillery cannon is exactly what its meant to be, killing a good tyrant with the current luci is extremely hard, more an issue of luck than skill, so why not just make it even better at whats already its only real purpose, and remove any false security it offers towards defeating tyrants.

So we give people an overpowered canon, especially when it's near their base. Very smart and anti camper, and the only way to beat good campers atm is adv goons and tyrants. Both of which are made obsolete in this way.



Quote from: "Orc"
I'm only generalizing towards what seemed to be the vast majority of people that had never played a single game with me yet labeled me a noob over suggestions they didnt agree with.


You do take one hell of a superior pose towards others don't you? Come down off the high cloud and live with the fact that you get what you give. There were a few derogatory suggestions towards me and I could just as easily play this on hypocrisy as matter of opinion. Just think about the consequences for both teams, not just the human team and leave the people involved alone, don't read who's saying it and judge instead of looking at the author and start reading with a prejudice.


Oh and it's
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Mispeled

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Re: Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 12:10:26 am »
Quote from: "Orc"
6. The tyrant is far too powerful against naked rifles, as the luci is against dretchs. I propose that neither the tyrant nor the luci receives credit/evo for kills of free classes(granger,dretch, unarmored ckit/rifle) I believe this would curb camping of free classes for kills and would instead require more effective use of the most powerful weapons each team has to offer. I mean afterall, if you cant kill anything but dretchs or naked rifles with your tyrant or luci, do you really deserve another?

What if you completely eliminated any addition of credits/evos when using luci or tyrant, regardless of what class you kill? I think that would be less confusing and make more sense.

kozak6

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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2007, 01:13:32 am »
1.  It would make it a lot easier for big bugs to chomp through a stack of turrets rather quickly.

2.  With unlimited jumping, Bsuits would jump around like Marauders in order to avoid being hit and to avoid headshots.

3.  Do we even know that the aliens use heat to detect humans?  I don't really see it making enough difference to be worth changing.

4.  Sounds interesting.

5. I dunno.

6.  This hurts aliens much more than it hurts humans.

7.  It lends itself too well to camping.

8.  Sounds beastly.  It would have to be extremely expensive, and it does seem to be more of a TremX sort of thing.

9.  That's what, 36 damage per second?  Would it stay locked on while within range similar to the Mara zap?  It might work out since 36 dps isn't overpowering, especially for such a close range weapon.

10.  
Quote from: "AKAnotu"
so now your screwing over the alien team with more noobs feeding with granger attackers.  :roll:

I'm starting to think that the spitting ability should simply be removed from the Adv Granger.  The few times it's been useful against an errant jettard certainly hasn't been worth the scores of "Battle Grangers" trying to take the fight to the enemy.

11.  Meh.

Orc

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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2007, 02:31:35 am »
There are many strategies, the problem is that any strategy that isnt making a forward base to take the fight to the aliens, is camping in base waiting to die.

And if you can't charge into a group of 4 naked humans, kill each one in a single slash, then escape with 4 frags, within 20 seconds, then again I just don't know what to tell you, because I and most people I know can easily.

Also base ff would prevent any use of the luci near turrets or other structures. Unless of course we are balancing for player stupidity...

You guys seemed determined to balance the game for the scores of noobs that play, which gives the relatively few skilled players a huge advantage.

Lava Croft

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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2007, 02:53:18 am »
Why don't you just go play Gloom, I wonder.

Survivor

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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2007, 08:33:38 am »
Quote from: "Orc"
There are many strategies, the problem is that any strategy that isnt making a forward base to take the fight to the aliens, is camping in base waiting to die.

And if you can't charge into a group of 4 naked humans, kill each one in a single slash, then escape with 4 frags, within 20 seconds, then again I just don't know what to tell you, because I and most people I know can easily.

Also base ff would prevent any use of the luci near turrets or other structures. Unless of course we are balancing for player stupidity...

You guys seemed determined to balance the game for the scores of noobs that play, which gives the relatively few skilled players a huge advantage.


Are you that blind. You can leave those turrets and buildings behind. The lasgun and pulse rifle both have a more than adequate ammo supply to stay out for ages as long as you don't spam.

If you think any smart human will be in the open and stay there while a tyrant comes charging at him you are the one dealing with bad opponents.

Not every server has base ff on.

We are balancing the game for all the people who know how to play, not for you.

And once again several derogatory comments which I'll once again let slide because i'm such a nice person.
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Door Slammer

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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2007, 09:13:36 am »
All i have to say is bring your 4 naked humans to my tyrant, and I'll have 4 more evos almost every single time.  It does not matter the quality of opponent when it only takes 1 swipe.  I dont have to be full health for this, and neither do most decent players.

I disagree with a perpetual slow down from creep poison, but I would like to see barricades with higher hp and with offensive capability (ie., poison or grab hold).

A suit should have more stamina than what it does.  Its mechanical, give it some jump and distance to sprinting.  This would take down tyrants in a more effective manner.

Tyrant strength and speed is an unbalance, but IMO my suit idea works pretty well to counter them, giving humans the ability to chase down wounded goons and tyrants, as well as then giving them the stamina to get back to the base after using up ammo during the chase.

techhead

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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2007, 09:02:21 pm »
Change the tyrant charge mechanic and make it come at a sharp decrease in maneuverability?
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Sure you can use it to run for your life, but don't expect to turn on a dime, unlike currently.
I don't use it because I find it awkward for anything other than crashing around the map at lightning speed.
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temple

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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 02:29:16 am »
ORC
I propose that with a bit of extra damage beyond critical, say half the turrets original hp, that the soon to explode turret could be made to disappear instantly rather than exploding, so a third tyrant slash would cause the turret to disappear fully instead of wait and explode like only 2 would.

Too devistating to human builders.  But that's an understandable change.

I propose that the battlesuit be incapable of sprint, but capable of unlimited jumping aided by the hydraulics or whatever makes the suit work.
Understandable but humans would just jump all the time to avoid headshots or to be pricks.  Hearing 'zoom whomp' all the time would be worst than the constant jetpack sound.

I propose that dead humans remain on alien radar for the extent of the time that their body remains in the map(30 seconds?)
Fine suggestion but it wouldn't change much.  

As the suggestion of extra build points for a forward base seemed to be rather unpopular, what about a new building
Scratch that.   I propose a 'telepack' which allows humans to teleport via repeaters.   Let a telenode be the home teleporter and humans can jump from repeater to repeater.  The telepack will not allow jetpack or battery pack.  Availible at stage 3.

It would be more effective than a moble base and much more useful.  Saves adding a new structure and BP issues.  But it would be easier to counter (just destory the repeater).  

Stamina for tyrant charge, I believe tyrants should have a delay between charges of about 5-10 seconds, thereby preventing the all too common super speed escape charge spam.
Scratch, just force tyrants to stand still to charge a trample.  Tyrants are ready expensive, making them unable to escape is basically making them a suicide unit.  That's like making battlesuits not be able to sprint.  Just make them stand still to charge a trample.  It charges fast enough and if they have a head start they can escape.  But as it stands, a tyrant has to get a headstart or they can be gunned down easily anyway.

The tyrant is far too powerful against naked rifles, as the luci is against dretchs. I propose that neither the tyrant nor the luci receives credit/evo for kills of free classes(granger,dretch, unarmored ckit/rifle)
I totally agree with the reason behind this but I disagree totally.  'Noobs' would just all go dretch or rifle and camp to kill tyrants or luci users.  That  would hurt humans more because dretches would swarm a luci user and he would not be able to get enough credits to fight on if he dies.  

The Luci itself should be changed to be a more powerful seige weapon and less useful for spam
Basically a grenade launcher.  The problem is trying to get to the alien base or from it with that weapon.  



Chaingun turret. Just what it sounds like, a more powerful turret alternative to the tesla and not requiring a defense computer, aiming like a regular turret, but having the fire rate, and damage(6) of a chaingun, and enough health to require slightly more damage than 2 dragoon barbs to kill. It would have about 25% less spread than a chaingun wielded by a suit, ensuring that it cant snipe dretchs at maximum range every shot, but up close it would be a formidable defense.

What's the trade off?  Will it cost more points?  Turn slowly?  Sounds way too good to be balanced.

Tesla gun. Also rather self explanatory, a human weapon costing 500 credits, available at stage3, only wieldable by battlesuit, that would have the cooldown, range, and damage(9) of a tesla, but would require aim similar to adv marauder zap, and would chain onto additional aliens nearby the target, dividing the damage between all affected like the adv marauder zap. Its primary purpose would be against smaller aliens, and would make a particularly nice compliment to the altered Luci proposed (see above)
Sounds stupid

Adv Granger spit, maybe at s2, the capabilities of the adv granger(wall walking and additional structures) should instead be added to the normal granger, and the adv granger should retain all said abilities but cost 1-2 frags, and its spit should freeze similar to a trapper.
I don't think it adds to the game.  Aliens already get trappers and this would be a moble trapper.  Grangers get in the way, imo.

Slower(tentative name for lack of better), the aliens could get a structure, available at s2, that would function similar to a trapper, but instead of freezing them it would slow their movement speed by 50%, an effect which would last until they touched a medpad,

Against totally, basically humans would never make it back to the medistation to get cured from it.

Overall, I don't think Tremulous is being killed.  I think either a new crop of players are getting better and putting up competition.  Which in turn makes the old players feel like 'the noobs are running away with the game'.  Or people are just bend on making Tremulous, like most other popular games, into stupid hard and serious games that aren't even fun anymore.

temple

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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2007, 05:29:30 am »
Quote from: "Door Slammer"
All i have to say is bring your 4 naked humans to my tyrant, and I'll have 4 more evos almost every single time.  It does not matter the quality of opponent when it only takes 1 swipe.  I dont have to be full health for this, and neither do most decent players.

Not if you are at one end of a hall and the 4 rifles are at the opposite end.  The raw DPS will kill you before you finish the trample.  That's the mechanism behind camping, the ranged dps will finish you before get to the base.

|Nex|TrEmMa

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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2007, 09:32:04 am »
Orc it's obvious you've never even played the game, yet alone have it installed.

Norfenstein

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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2007, 11:05:25 pm »
Didn't read any replies.

1. Why don't we just make turrets explode faster instead of adding something complicated? The delay doesn't really serve any purpose.

2. Shouldn't ever try to justify a tremulous idea based on realism >_> I don't really know how I feel about this one, but humans still need that mobility sprinting provides along with the protection battlesuits provide...

3. I hate this idea, to be honest. Things stay on the radar(s) too long as it is, and I really don't see this being useful enough to curb corner-camping to justify its annoyance in all other situations.

4. I know most responses to suggestions are cynical moaning, but I for one would much rather see a creative and radical idea than a kludge for a broader, systemic problem just to avoid the naysayers. Building in tremulous (especially human building) is not where I think it should be, and I really wouldn't like to see half-measures like this instead of real fixes (which, ironically, will likely be met with much cynical moaning)

5. TJW had a trample delay in for a while on his server to make it much harder to use the trample for escaping, but took it down with the regeneration change since he felt that solved the problem. It seems to too.

6. Trem is not gloom. Trem is not gloom. Trem is not gloom. If the tyrant or lucy are too strong for even crowds of low level enemies then they should just simply be toned down. They cost a lot, 0-fund enemies don't provide much, and the wasted time spent farming does matter. And the tyrant is being toned down. As for the lucifer cannon...

7. YES. Trem is not gloom, but gloom sure had some good points I'd still like to see in trem. The HT was one of them: the lucifer cannon really ought to be for bases instead of enemies and making it more like gloom's rocket launcher (but not totally like it, super weapons don't fit in tremulous) would be the funnest (I think) way of doing that.

I wish I'd gotten to your previous one before it got flooded with largely unproductive replies, but I hope you'll keep making these posts.

Stof

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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2007, 11:14:09 pm »
Quote from: "Norfenstein"
Didn't read any replies.

1. Why don't we just make turrets explode faster instead of adding something complicated? The delay doesn't really serve any purpose.

This is probably for looks, but now it is very useful : it gives humans builders some time to decon the turret before it explodes and damages the rest. Also, it gives some time to humans to reorganise before the way opens to the heart of their base.

On a side note, making the turret explode now/faster/on the next hit will make it much harder for smaller aliens to kill turrets without the turret exploding in their face in the process, probably killing them.

Quote from: "Norfenstein"
7. YES. Trem is not gloom, but gloom sure had some good points I'd still like to see in trem. The HT was one of them: the lucifer cannon really ought to be for bases instead of enemies and making it more like gloom's rocket launcher (but not totally like it, super weapons don't fit in tremulous) would be the funnest (I think) way of doing that.

Don't do that. Don't nerf the stage 3 alien killing human weapons :/ Humans do not need more power for base killing at stage 3, they need tyrant killer weapons. And lucy is strong enouth to kill bases already, but if it's only good for that, then humans will stop using it since humans cannot weaken their strike forces in the "anti big alien" field when attacking alien bases.
urphy's rules of combat
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18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

_Equilibrium_

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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2007, 01:34:56 am »
Quote from: "Survivor"
That combined with the fact that most players actually forget that the head of the bs isn't the hitbox head could make it even more annoying.
wait, so where is the head hitbox then?

Survivor

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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2007, 12:07:27 pm »
Quote from: "_Equilibrium_"
Quote from: "Survivor"
That combined with the fact that most players actually forget that the head of the bs isn't the hitbox head could make it even more annoying.
wait, so where is the head hitbox then?




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tuple

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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2007, 12:58:08 pm »
Quote from: "Orc"
I dont know who you play with but nobody halfway skilled is going to lose their luci to individual dretchs,


I regularly take down very skilled players with 1-2 dretches.  The trick is to jump just to the side of the head, but make sure that your landing spot is a wall.  Wallwalk up and out of the dangerous floor lucy that is coming.  Works best if you are just going to graze a wall, then they really don't expect you to be circling the ceiling that quickly.  I piss off loads of really good players that way.  Ironically, if they shoot the ceiling to kill me, they often leave dretches on the floor.  They ussually don't see me though, they shoot the floor and start to move on thinking I am dead when I headshot them again.

This technique often works best when you are a lone dretch.  If their are others, you are more likely to get hit as the human is typically shooting off lucy shots everywhere.

Forward bases are great on large BP servers, and also on standard BP servers when they work.  When they don't work, the human base is spread out and is then easily and quickly destroyed.  As alien I love seeing forward bases, one repeater brings the whole thing down.  Best to leave them till SD :)

Vector_Matt

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Re: Yet More Suggestions...
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2007, 05:39:37 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
...
So the hitbox head is at the model's waist. This, to me, is the number one bug that needs fixing.

techhead

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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2007, 08:45:29 pm »
What should we do?
Should we make the model smaller, the hitbox bigger, or move both to somewhere in between?
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_Equilibrium_

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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2007, 09:14:43 pm »
wow, i never knew that about the bsuit hitbox. so aiming at the upper legs hits the waist and aiming at the wait hits the head? cool.

dude11235

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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2007, 04:47:26 am »
Guys I thinks the game is completely balanced as is so leave it be.

Foobicam

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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2007, 02:35:22 pm »
Quote from: "techhead"
What should we do?
Should we make the model smaller, the hitbox bigger, or move both to somewhere in between?

Good subject for a poll.  There's something visually impressive about big bsuits and tyrants, so I'd vote for keeping the model sizes near what they are and adjusting the hitboxes for all so that they correspond to the models.  Making hitboxes radically smaller than the models just seems like a "trick" to give experienced players some knowledge that newer players don't have.

Note, I don't mind the dretch's large hitbox, it's probably necessary to make it hittable.  But please make the model bigger (taller) to fit the box.
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Vector_Matt

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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2007, 06:26:35 pm »
Quote from: "Foobicam"
Quote from: "techhead"
What should we do?
Should we make the model smaller, the hitbox bigger, or move both to somewhere in between?
There's something visually impressive about big bsuits and tyrants, so I'd vote for keeping the model sizes near what they are and adjusting the hitboxes for all so that they correspond to the models.
Seconded.