Buy a motorbike or similar at the armory for large maps

[Taiyo.uk]

Idea for large maps (Pulse, Procyon et al):
A motorbike/power skates/hoverboard/something that can be bought at the armory. It can use the BS bbox and allows humans to move quickly, perhaps 2x normal run speed. It does not fly and can't be used with a BS and has no integrated weapon, but it can move up stairs and shallow slopes. It must be dismounted for the human to climb ladders and the like. It can be picked up again unless an alien destroys it. Perhaps other humans can pick it up too, although that might cause allot of tking because "OMG HE STOLED MAH BIKE!!1!" (possibly do a /donate bike if you're doing a suicide trip?)

It could be made rather expensive do discourage "bike spamming" on smaller maps.

I keep hearing people whining about large maps, and others who keep suggesting "let's make vehicles and tanks for humans and UFOs for aliens!" I guess I thought that having a small vehicle buyable would keep both of these groups happy without being completely insane ....almost.

Aside from all that, cruising around on a dirt bike while waving your painsaw above your head and shouting "come on!!" is just l33t and ATCS will become "Advanced BMX Combat Simulator"

[_Equilibrium_]

Interesting. And the bike could become a mini nade as well. You could kamikaze the bike into the alien base and start causing a ruckus. If the aliens destroy the bike, it explodes in their base. Or you can just shoot the bike until it gives the little lightning bolt symbol so you know it will blow, then use any life left over to shoot aliens or structures. If you die before blowing the bike, and the aliens don't destroy it, it will just be a big nuisance to them (like a badly placed barricade or hovel that can't be deconned). I like it!

[Taiyo.uk]

Interesting. And the bike could become a mini nade as well.
=SNIP=

Nice thought, but I think that would be OTT. A light explosion such as when a turret explodes seems more appropriate. The purpose of the proposed "bike" buyable is to provide speed without enhancing armor or providing additional weapon power. If the bike were to have a powerful explosion then most alien bases would be rapidly destroyed after a quick "crash party".

[holyknight]

bikes! NEAT! Nice idea! And I expected some people yelling "NO NEW STUFF!"... hmm... looks like things have changed eh?

[kozak6]

Would you be able to fire while driving it?

[Taiyo.uk]

bikes! NEAT! Nice idea! And I expected some people yelling "NO NEW STUFF!"... hmm... looks like things have changed eh?

For the better or for the worse

Would you be able to fire while driving it?

Hmm, good point. Being able to fire while riding might make this overpowered. I've seen many riders (I'm thinking motorcross here) ride on relatively flat terrain without touching the handlebars, and steering around wide bends by leaning. How about you have reduced steering ability when firing while riding?

[kozak6]

I'm thinking that firing while driving would be bad, even if steering was reduced.

I mean, how much steering do you have to do down a perfectly straight corridor?  Not much.

Would you be able to wear light armor, a jetpack, or a battpack while using it?

Will a helmet be required  :wink: ?

I really don't see this in the main game, but it's perfect mod material.

[Stof]

It can use the BS bbox

There is no such thing as the BS bbox All humans no matter which equipment have the same bbox.

[Taiyo.uk]

I'm thinking that firing while driving would be bad, even if steering was reduced. I mean, how much steering do you have to do down a perfectly straight corridor?  Not much.

Well, guess it depends how many tyrants are in your way

Would you be able to wear light armor, a jetpack, or a battpack while using it?

No battlesuit, light armor is fine, unsure about jetpack.

Will a helmet be required  :wink: ?

Well clearly any responsible mercenary will take care to ride safely.

I really don't see this in the main game, but it's perfect mod material.

Well, it'll probably be useless on many current maps since they were designed with peds in mind. It's better suited to maps with large open spaces and wide corridors such as Pulse, Aegis Station and Procyon. DASPRiD's Ancient Remains looks like a good dirt-bike challenge too

There is no such thing as the BS bbox  All humans no matter which equipment have the same bbox.

Oops! After some experimenting with cg_drawbbox on, I think that a bbox as tall as the human box, and as wide as the turret box would be about right.

[Somethief]

Yea it's a nice idea, maybe even a halo-like car, but then aliens need something similar too. A car would help alot in chasing eggs but tyrant should be able to run faster than the car goes.
Just dont screw it up with massive chaingun etc, that would be too unfair, and make it avaible just like 10mins before TL

[rapha]

Terrific idea!

- Allow Jetpack and Battery Pack
- Don't make the Bike a buyable at the Armory, instead make it a buildable. I'm thinking 8 BPs or so here. Actually the BPs required would probably be essential in making sure it's not overpowered. When the Bike is destroyed, BPs are of course returned, just like with any other buildable.
- Make it look like a military version of the BMW C1 (http://www.bmw-c1.de),
  Reactor or Armory colored maybe. Maybe even make 2 versions of it. The first like described above, without the ability to go up stairs, and taking damage when going down stairs. The second, "Advanced Combat Bike" maybe, becomes available at S2 and looks more like a bad-ass motocross dirtbike. Think agressive. This one can go up and down stairs without a problem, but in addition also reacts to creative use of the jump and duck keys, so you can do wierd tricks if you're good enough (sliding down rails, jumping up boxes and so on, make it real hard to perfom these tricks tho).
- About shooting while riding: I'd handle this a bit like in real life; riding with your hands on the handles should be real easy, everybody can do it, blaster allowed (can keep one hand at the handle). When using your primary weapon though it should become hard to keep the thing up. Steering done with the strafe keys, need to be real sensitive. If you fall you'll have to mount it again (Enter key does that, but takes 2 seconds or so). This would also be true for the case that one of the heavier aliens or your teammates pushes hard against the bike from the side.
- Good sounds! Especially the Advanced Combat Bike, it needs a load and roary sound! Drawback (intended): bikes can be heard LONG before they even appear on Alien radar.
- Speed: the Combat Bike should be fast, definitely faster than a charging Tyrant. The Advanced Combat Bike should be a tad slower than a charging Tyrant.

>:]



EDIT: Could one of the admins please fix BBCode for me? :-( (Yes, it IS enabled)

[techhead]

Mount a gun on it, blasters kinda suck, and trying to use your two-handed weapon would be awkward.

[Paradox]

Keep it balanced.

[_Equilibrium_]

Interesting. And the bike could become a mini nade as well.
=SNIP=

Nice thought, but I think that would be OTT. A light explosion such as when a turret explodes seems more appropriate. The purpose of the proposed "bike" buyable is to provide speed without enhancing armor or providing additional weapon power. If the bike were to have a powerful explosion then most alien bases would be rapidly destroyed after a quick "crash party".

it could be used like the bile dretch in the balance mod, except you dont have to die in order for the explosion. Imagine this: 4 luci carrying bikers crash into the alien base. They drop nades and shoot a charged luci at the bikes so they will blow, then commence to luci the entire alien base before they die. No suvivors methinks.

[Paradox]

Now imagine your playing as aliens. How do you combat such a tool? Such a situation?
Just because you may suck at aliens, others dont.

[_Equilibrium_]

Now imagine your playing as aliens. How do you combat such a tool? Such a situation?
Just because you may suck at aliens, others dont.

If your talking to me, this was just a hypothetical situation. I highly doubt that anyone will do this in the actual game if the bike is created. And why would a person sucking at aliens write something like this. So they could wreck the aliens every time? I may be better at humans, but i in no way suck at aliens (ok, maybe basi). I just like the thought of fun situation like that. Realistically, 4 lucis with nades raiding a base (on a reasonably size server) should already win the game for hummies. The bikes would just make it look really cool in a demo.

[Paradox]

I am just saying, many of the froobs and nobos who play are ok at humans, mediocre at best, but suck at aliens. They think "OMG! TYRANT! RUN! AAH! ITS UNKILLABLE! WE SHOULD HAVE A NUKE TO KILL THE UNKILLABEL TYRANT!" or the like. Tyrants are very killable.

[Taiyo.uk]

it could be used like the bile dretch in the balance mod, except you dont have to die in order for the explosion. Imagine this: 4 luci carrying bikers crash into the alien base. They drop nades and shoot a charged luci at the bikes so they will blow, then commence to luci the entire alien base before they die. No suvivors methinks.

I still think that powerful explosions are way too powerful. Four humans with luci and grenades will destroy an alien base without bikes. I've seen many people take out the OM, some eggs and some defenses using just a nade and painsaw. Depends on how skilled the players are and how well built the bases are I guess. I still think that the bike idea should remain focussed on providing a speed increase. Going back the the bile dretch analogy, that has reduced health and no bite, thus making it a challenge to get to the human base before exploding. A dretch that has full HP and a bite and explodes would be too powerful.

- Don't make the Bike a buyable at the Armory, instead make it a buildable. I'm thinking 8 BPs or so here. Actually the BPs required would probably be essential in making sure it's not overpowered. When the Bike is destroyed, BPs are of course returned, just like with any other buildable.

I don't know how making it a buildable instead of a buyable will affect the concept, or how easy making a buildable move is. As a buyable it can be a matter of changing the human model as happens when buying a bsuit.

Reactor or Armory colored maybe. Maybe even make 2 versions of it.The first like described above, without the ability to go up stairs, and taking damage when going down stairs. The second, "Advanced Combat Bike" maybe, becomes available at S2 and looks more like a bad-ass motocross dirtbike

I was thinking of something like a skinny dirt bike with "armory green" fuel tank and a few bits of armor, and "turret grey" for most of the other parts, well... time for a design competition

Initially, if anyone ever gets implementing it, I think that just the one version is enough - most motorbikes can make easy work of stairs in the right hands.

also reacts to creative use of the jump and duck keys, so you can do wierd tricks if you're good enough (sliding down rails, jumping up boxes and so on, make it real hard to perfom these tricks tho).

YES. I guess jumping would be similar to a goon pounce; how high you fly depends on how fast you were going and the direction you were looking in when you jump. You should also receive fall damage if you go above a certain height. This applies to falling in general.

Keep it balanced.

YES.

Another thought is crash damage. In real life crash damage is a result of very large accelerations (i.e. rapid changes in velocity; a=dv/dt). Damage in HP due to crashes could be simplified to being proportional to the square of the difference in speed from one tick (is that the right term?) to the next, if it is above a certain threshold. I say the square because the damage done depends on the energy absorbed by the objects in a collision, and the (kinetic) energy of a moving object is proportional to the square of it's velocity, E=1/2*m*v^2

[Undeference]

Don't make the Bike a buyable at the Armory, instead make it a buildable. I'm thinking 8 BPs

Can you imagine building a base, having some newb grab a ckit, build a bike without you knowing (since no DECONSTRUCT warning is made when g_markDeconstruct is enabled and svn has no build notices), and driving off with 8 build points? I'm now picturing a 20 build point base because the aliens have a collection of bikes you can't get to.

froobs and nobos

Just add milk

[Odin]

Yea, and don't forget to mention a new kind of griefer that decons your bike while you're riding it.

[ms1max]

imagine tat lol....

[Taiyo.uk]

Can you imagine building a base, having some newb grab a ckit, build a bike without you knowing (since no DECONSTRUCT warning is made when g_markDeconstruct is enabled and svn has no build notices), and driving off with 8 build points? I'm now picturing a 20 build point base because the aliens have a collection of bikes you can't get to.

Oh dear... Nubcake paradise

Yea, and don't forget to mention a new kind of griefer that decons your bike while you're riding it.

bike DECONSTRUCTED by mr.builder
mr.builder was killed by TEAMMATE l33trider
mr.builder: OMg! n00b! KICK HIM! TKER!
l33trider: DA DUMASS MOFO STOLE MAH BIKE!!1!

Yes, good points. It's better to have them as buyables. How much should they cost, and at what stage should they become available?

[Paradox]

They could even be remote recon vehicles.
The alien one could climb walls

[Rawr]

$1000

[0z]

The stupid map makers just make too huge maps, they aren't Trem style! You have been watching too much "Biker Mice From Mars"

This should go in same category with tyrant wheel chair.

[Taiyo.uk]

The stupid map makers just make too huge maps, they aren't Trem style! You have been watching too much "Biker Mice From Mars"

This should go in same category with tyrant wheel chair.

...and what exactly is this "Trem style" you speak of?

Some people enjoy playing on large maps, while others prefer ATCS et al.
This idea is to add another element of gameplay. Hopefully it'll make the game more fun to play, and allow mappers to create large maps without the small map fans saying things like "The stupid map makers just make too huge maps, they aren't Trem style!"

[Odin]

They could even be remote recon vehicles.
The alien one could climb walls

Or a remote decon vehicle.

[rapha]

I don't know how making it a buildable instead of a buyable will affect the concept, or how easy making a buildable move is. As a buyable it can be a matter of changing the human model as happens when buying a bsuit.

e
Making it a buildable makes it a team property, not a single players' property.
Also I forgot to add that only one should be available for the entire team.

Initially, if anyone ever gets implementing it, I think that just the one version is enough - most motorbikes can make easy work of stairs in the right hands.

Look at the link to the BMW I posted. It's more like a roller (can say that in English?) than a bike actually. A friend of mine owns one and I doubt it could do stairs without being damaged instantly, skilled hands or not. So there's also why I wanted two version: imo, a bike that could do stairs and tricks (hop up boxes, rails and stuff) would be overpowered at S1. One that would just let you go faster than usual could be just about right.

YES. I guess jumping would be similar to a goon pounce; how high you fly depends on how fast you were going and the direction you were looking in when you jump. You should also receive fall damage if you go above a certain height. This applies to falling in general.

Well, it should be harder to learn doing jumps at high speed than at low speed or stand-still, mostly because that's how it is in real life.

Another thought is crash damage. In real life crash damage is a result of very large accelerations (i.e. rapid changes in velocity; a=dv/dt). Damage in HP due to crashes could be simplified to being proportional to the square of the difference in speed from one tick (is that the right term?) to the next, if it is above a certain threshold. I say the square because the damage done depends on the energy absorbed by the objects in a collision, and the (kinetic) energy of a moving object is proportional to the square of it's velocity, E=1/2*m*v^2

Don't forget the m in that equation! A dretch bumping into that bike has to have a different effect than the bike bumping into a tyrant. Also, like I mentioned in my last post, even light aliens like dretches would have to be able to seriously affect the bike's physical movement by colliding with it from the side (whether on purpose or not), depending on their speed of course (thus taking the ^2 from the equation into account.

But that's implementation details already :-)

For me personally this is like with the Tyrant Killer weapon suggestion by PHREAK: good idea in a long time that would be cool to try out. So it'd be cool if somebody who also liked the idea and was adept at Q3 engine programming would give it a spin!

[techhead]

A cross between a Tyrant and a basilisk, weaker attack, but it can pick up vehicles (and people)

[0z]

The stupid map makers just make too huge maps, they aren't Trem style! You have been watching too much "Biker Mice From Mars"

This should go in same category with tyrant wheel chair.

...and what exactly is this "Trem style" you speak of?

I was trying to say that if humans cannot easily get into the enemy base because the distances are so big, then it's probably because the map was poorly designed.  All good maps I know are made so that you can sprint from human base to alien base by picking the shortest route, or at least get near to it. The new maps are unbelievably huge and clearly designed for mass driver aim practicing.

Tremulous background story obviously involves infested mines somewhere in outer space, and group of armed humans go to clean the caverns.

Because Quake3 engine doesn't properly support cavern-like or similar maps, or they are difficult to play in, mappers tend to make gloomy buildings and similar things.

To show some bits of information that are important I will type them here.

*Tremuous was designed for 16 players

   - Basic maps are designed for this player amount and normal server settings.
   - Game is balanced for this player amount: Proper strategic playing is difficult with too large number of players.

Many players still like big games:

      - Regular maps get tight with too big player amounts
         --> Some people make big maps
            -->Someone wants vehicles to move more easily in these maps
               --> These vehicles will allow even bigger maps and more players, beginners will not ever learn how to play the game like it was meant to be played.

No pre-made conclusion, measure it out yourselves.

EDIT: I FOUND THE SOLUTION!!! Make a mod for your server.