Is spawncamping a bannible offence?

[[tycho]]

so, is it?

[ms1max]

in my opinion, yes

[Rawr]

kick IMO, ban is a bit harsh

[Lakitu7]

It's a strategic game. If a builder builds an egg/telenode in a stupid place, the other team is rewarded with the ability to feed off of it toward the next stage. Kick the builder that built the feeding spawn if you really need to place the blame somewhere. The other team is doing their job and playing the game.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

[n00b pl0x]

It's a strategic game. If a builder builds an egg/telenode in a stupid place, the other team is rewarded with the ability to feed off of it toward the next stage. Kick the builder that built the feeding spawn if you really need to place the blame somewhere. The other team is doing their job and playing the game.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

+1

If a team leaves a spawn unprotected, by sheer stupidity or to just have a forward egg/node, it is valid (if not cheap) to kill anything/everything that spawns from the said spawn. Therefore I do not believe it is a bannable/kickable offense, even though I do view it as quite cheap.

[tuple]

It's a strategic game. If a builder builds an egg/telenode in a stupid place, the other team is rewarded with the ability to feed off of it toward the next stage. Kick the builder that built the feeding spawn if you really need to place the blame somewhere. The other team is doing their job and playing the game.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

+2

[Medic]

1)  I absolutely agree with Lakitu

2)  It's easily remedied, alert your team, spawn builder, and decon it, it's not hard.  I've done it on more than one occasion where some jackass goon is sitting on a human spawn wracking up kills instead of just ending the game.  I can't see why that wouldn't work mid game.  And to note, humans have to reload sometime if it's an alien spawn.

[temple]

It's a strategic game. If a builder builds an egg/telenode in a stupid place, the other team is rewarded with the ability to feed off of it toward the next stage. Kick the builder that built the feeding spawn if you really need to place the blame somewhere. The other team is doing their job and playing the game.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

Few feeder eggs are built by accident, most are done to grief build.  I.E. building 3 eggs in front of the human base.  

Therefore, kick/ban the spawn campers and the grief builder.  If the aliens attack from the feeders eggs, then they are contributing to the feeding by not simply running.  A 'fair' match is people killing the feeder spawn ASAP.  They will get a few feeder kills but just hovering over it is lame and unsportsmanlike like.

To me, its like attacking when the other team gets deconned.  Sure, you get an easy win but you wouldn't like it if it happened to you.  Most people admit when their team was just building poorly but at the same time, they expect consideration when its a legitable griefing issue.  Everyone says its 'a tactical mistake' until you get a grief builder on your team and heaven help them if you are an admin too.

[kozak6]

Unless there's only one spawn left and the other team is only spawnkilling in order to prolong the match, no punishment should be given.

I feel it's a valid gameplay strategy.  If someone screws up that badly and their team doesn't do anything about it, they should have to pay the price.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

+3

[[tycho]]

I started this thread because of a game where a humie was kicked by everyone after spawncamping for the entire game, and when the game was ending (humans win) he just kept painsawing the spawning aliens when he could easly have killed the egg.


But I agree that if the spawn was in a horrible tacitical postion, it is ok to get a few kills off it. But the whole game? It was starting to piss off even the human team.

Kinda funny that it was a human player that started the vote kick.


EDIT: yeah, I ment kick, not ban. Ban is to harsh.

[Sjoerd]

Is spawncamping a bannible offence?

I guess this is one of those things that depend on server rules. With other games there are servers that do and don't allow it. And if there is no rule, it's a valid strategy. Because of the nature of the game, I think it will never be a real problem for tremulous. If you are going to spawncamp, sooner or later, you or the spawnpoint will be destroyed. If during the game in question, someone was 'spawncamping for the entire game', and it was 'starting to piss off even the human team'. Why wasn't it simply destroyed?

[David]

Spawn camping is fine until the last egg/node, then just finish it.

[A_Total_noob]

Unless there's only one spawn left and the other team is only spawnkilling in order to prolong the match, no punishment should be given.

I feel it's a valid gameplay strategy.  If someone screws up that badly and their team doesn't do anything about it, they should have to pay the price.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

+3

+4

Its the builders fault for building such a crappy base/building a crappy egg that the enemy is taking advantage of the situation.

Unless you are really camping, and just sitting there for like 5 minutes, then yeah, warn, then kick if nothing.
But if only for a few kills, just to get your creds up, I dont see the problem IMHO.

[Hk]

Well, I think, the term "spawncamp" can be split according to several situations and the answer to "Ban?" depends on the situation.

a) It is obvious that a spawn was build by a griefer, like a telenode in front of the alien base.
In this case, the correct way of acting whould be to destroy the spawn asap, as there is no "proper builder" responsible for this. A kick should hit spawncampers and the griefer in this casebecause I consider the spawncamping as an important part of the griefing in this case.

b) The spawn was built by a proper builder in a bad location, so a dretch can sit on it or a human can snipe dretches coming out of it.
Well, as long as the team has a greater advantage from camping than the advantage from destroying it, it is legal in my opinion. A dretch is unable to kill a telenode, but it can sit on it and headchomp anyone coming out of it, if the human team is unable to kill it, it is their fault. However, if this is the last telenode, there is no advantage from camping longer than 2 - 3 kills, because then the dretch can evolve and kill it. Same with a bad egg, camp it, if thats better than killing it. Getting S2 fast as a human is a big advantage.
Thus, a kick should only occur if there is no real advantage from camping the spawns. If there is an advantage, it is a legal tactic.

[Vai]

It's a strategic game. If a builder builds an egg/telenode in a stupid place, the other team is rewarded with the ability to feed off of it toward the next stage. Kick the builder that built the feeding spawn if you really need to place the blame somewhere. The other team is doing their job and playing the game.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

+5

I love doing this when the oppotunity presents.

[Lava Croft]

Yes, I am an Alien the size of a small car, and I will gladly take into consideration the stupidity of Humans when I stumble upon a unprotected Telenode. Instead of satisfying my hunger for warm, tender Human flesh, I will do them a favor and kill that ill-protected Telenode.

NOT

[maci]

Spawn camping is totally legit..

the only case it is not legit if it this node is the very last human building on the map and some goon just keeps to polish up his stats

[Henners]

No but spelling bannable incorrectly is

[DASPRiD]

If I see people camping all the time, I just slap them out of their base with dmg 0.

[TharisfalPS]

There's nothing wrong with spawncamping if the builder built an egg/node in a bad place. But many players have the bad habit of spawncamping when their victory is imminent.

[Undeference]

There was a discussion about this a while ago and, if I recall correctly, the general consensus then was that "if you screwed up, it's your fault". The logic is flawless.

However, Tremulous is a game and, like most games, it is meant first for having fun. Spawn camping is only fun for arrogant bastards who feel superior when their opponent is at a handicap (this is the same mentality people who cheat use: I'm winning. It feels good, even though I'm not doing any work).
But let's be honest, who finds standing next to a spawn killing whatever spawns fun? It gets very repetitive very quickly. The only thing slightly amusing about it is the frustration of the other team. After all, this is a very sadistic game (i.e., going around, shooting up your opponents).

People take the game way too seriously. It is a game. If you are competing for something, go ahead and take it seriously, but if it's every game... that's just sad. This is probably why most builders never try anything new. If they screw up, the other team will feed off their spawns and their team will blame them for the loss, insult them, and try to discourage them from building again.

[Stof]

There was a discussion about this a while ago and, if I recall correctly, the general consensus then was that "if you screwed up, it's your fault". The logic is flawless.

However, Tremulous is a game and, like most games, it is meant first for having fun. Spawn camping is only fun for arrogant bastards who feel superior when their opponent is at a handicap (this is the same mentality people who cheat use: I'm winning. It feels good, even though I'm not doing any work).
But let's be honest, who finds standing next to a spawn killing whatever spawns fun? It gets very repetitive very quickly. The only thing slightly amusing about it is the frustration of the other team. After all, this is a very sadistic game (i.e., going around, shooting up your opponents).

People take the game way too seriously. It is a game. If you are competing for something, go ahead and take it seriously, but if it's every game... that's just sad. This is probably why most builders never try anything new. If they screw up, the other team will feed off their spawns and their team will blame them for the loss, insult them, and try to discourage them from building again.

There's nothing like getting burned to learn to stop playing with fire. If you do not tell your builders when they made a big mistake, they'll never know better.

[Undeference]

In other words, Stof thinks people should never try anything new. I, on the other hand, like change.

[Seffylight]

Cool people vote no, or so I've heard.

+6

[Stof]

In other words, Stof thinks people should never try anything new. I, on the other hand, like change.

Try it if you want, if it's stupid, you'll know.

As for building forward eggs, there are 3 situtations :
- it works
- it fails, humans killed the eggs and all your forward base in the operation
- it fails BADLY, humans took control of the zone and are feeding themselves to stage 3 with that egg

If experimenting means for you to fall in the third category, then by all means don't do it while I'm in the same team as you. It takes exceptionaly bad building to get to that point seeing as humans have an hard enouth time controling something that isn't behind their turrets.

[castitatis]

Tremulous is an online game. Online games are tehre so people can compete with each others over tests of skills. Spawn camping requires no skills, its just basically taking advantage of the other team, and is especially annoying in end of matches. I'm not against someone going right inside the enemy base and feeding off it, or taking a small advantage of a lying egg somewhere, but for god sake, kill that egg after a few kills.

Bannable offense? no
Kickable offense? Yes if over used(Say camping a spawn for 5 min+)

But its possible some server could rule spawn camping to be at the same level as malicious building.

[whitebear]

If player builds tele/egg on easy kill spot (outside base?) the tele/spawn should be killed instead used as feeding platform. Camping on spawn without trying to destroy it is bannable offence. Game objective is to destroy all spawns and then players, not the otherway around fools.

[Stof]

If player builds tele/egg on easy kill spot (outside base?) the tele/spawn should be killed instead used as feeding platform. Camping on spawn without trying to destroy it is bannable offence. Game objective is to destroy all spawns and then players, not the otherway around fools.

Oh yeah, the berserker theory. I hope you ban any human that kills an alien before killing all the eggs in the map. Clearly, not killing the 3 tyrants before the egg behind them is a bannable offense

Spawncamping in Trem is tactics : it gives you technology and money to buy new toys. Getting those before the other team is a GREAT help to win the game. Also, it might be somewhat frustrating to die just after spawning, but provided the spawn point wasn't the last available, you lose less time when that happens than if that spawn had been destroyed from the start.

[whitebear]

You are wimp if you spawn camp and no one likes to play with wimps

[khalsa]

Unless there's only one spawn left and the other team is only spawnkilling in order to prolong the match, no punishment should be given.

I feel it's a valid gameplay strategy.  If someone screws up that badly and their team doesn't do anything about it, they should have to pay the price.

This isn't TFC.  A campable spawn means someone screwed up. Also, kills help your team. Thus, spawncamping is playing the game correctly. Building a campable spawn is playing the game incorrectly.

+3

+4

Its the builders fault for building such a crappy base/building a crappy egg that the enemy is taking advantage of the situation.

Unless you are really camping, and just sitting there for like 5 minutes, then yeah, warn, then kick if nothing.
But if only for a few kills, just to get your creds up, I dont see the problem IMHO.

+7 (so tempting)