Author Topic: Random Dev. Shots  (Read 1431761 times)

Plague Bringer

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #810 on: September 09, 2008, 01:58:47 am »
I'M COMING OUT OF THE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTH!
We will support, and not ridicule, you and your decision.
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Amanieu

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #811 on: September 09, 2008, 02:01:51 am »
Name the map: A GPU's nightmare
Quote
< kevlarman> zakk is getting his patches from shady frenchmen on irc
< kevlarman> this can't be a good sign :P

Kaleo

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #812 on: September 09, 2008, 02:02:33 am »
Quote from: Stannum
Thou canst not kill that which doth not live,
but you can blow it into chunky kibbles!
I has a cookie, and u can has a cookie, but i no givs u mai cookie...

Odin

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #813 on: September 09, 2008, 02:08:09 am »
Name the map: A GPU's nightmare
Actually it runs quite fast according to Supertanker.

Kaleo

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #814 on: September 09, 2008, 02:29:17 am »
Name the map: A GPU's nightmare
Actually it runs quite fast according to Supertanker.

Hinting + under/perfect use of particle systems would contribute to that.

Also, a good texture set can eliminate the need for extensive geometry, which would also really help.

Name the map: A GPU's nightmare

What about "The Odin Tanker"
Quote from: Stannum
Thou canst not kill that which doth not live,
but you can blow it into chunky kibbles!
I has a cookie, and u can has a cookie, but i no givs u mai cookie...

Lava Croft

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #815 on: September 09, 2008, 08:46:12 am »
@Odin: Are you using the normal maps provided with that texture set to make use of q3map2's 'bump-mapping' feature?
If not, give it a try and see what the effect is!
It would probably be unnoticeable due to how low-res lightmaps are. To get anything noticeable you need to put _lightmapscale 0.1 on everything.
And given Quake3's crappy 4MB(?) limit for lightmaps, that's impossible. Too bad :<

@all coders: I think you can safely quadruple the maximum size of the lightmap without breaking backwards compatibility. Maps using the bigger lightmap naturally would not run on a 'unmodified' ioQuake3. *WINK* *WINK*

Would quadrupling the limit be easy or would it mean to completely remake the handling of lightmaps?
From what I know with jdolan increasing Quake2World's maximum lightmap size to 16mb, it's a simple thing to do. It does create some huge fucking BSP files tho, obviously.

gimhael

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #816 on: September 09, 2008, 10:18:54 am »
@Odin: Are you using the normal maps provided with that texture set to make use of q3map2's 'bump-mapping' feature?
If not, give it a try and see what the effect is!
It would probably be unnoticeable due to how low-res lightmaps are. To get anything noticeable you need to put _lightmapscale 0.1 on everything.
And given Quake3's crappy 4MB(?) limit for lightmaps, that's impossible. Too bad :<

@all coders: I think you can safely quadruple the maximum size of the lightmap without breaking backwards compatibility. Maps using the bigger lightmap naturally would not run on a 'unmodified' ioQuake3. *WINK* *WINK*

Would quadrupling the limit be easy or would it mean to completely remake the handling of lightmaps?
From what I know with jdolan increasing Quake2World's maximum lightmap size to 16mb, it's a simple thing to do. It does create some huge fucking BSP files tho, obviously.

As I read the code the lightmap size is just a constant that could be changed easily. Problem is: the lightmap size is not stored in the bsp files, so when you change that constant and compile a new client (and server), you will no longer be able to play the maps created with the smaller sizes.  :-[

But that map may be worth a separate client and server when it's finished.  ;)

Of course I may be talking complete nonsense, so anybody having more insight in the engine correct me please.

Lava Croft

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #817 on: September 09, 2008, 10:41:46 am »
In Quake2(World), it's perfectly possible to increase the max lightmap size while still being able to play legacy maps created for an unmodified Quake2, with the old (I think) 2MB limit.

Pete

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #818 on: September 09, 2008, 02:05:44 pm »
Image

Now that looks more like Trem. Still beautiful though.

Any release date yet?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 08:04:54 pm by Pete »

Lava Croft

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #819 on: September 09, 2008, 02:24:57 pm »
@Pete: Since this thread is already heavy on the images, please do not quote them.

Plague Bringer

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #820 on: September 09, 2008, 07:43:07 pm »
[img width=960 height=768]http://supertanker.mercenariesguild.net/reactor2_dwc.jpg[img]

Break the image tag by removing any letter in the [img ] or [/img ] boxes.
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Pete

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #821 on: September 09, 2008, 08:06:40 pm »
@Pete: Since this thread is already heavy on the images, please do not quote them.

Fine. Fixxored.

Odin

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #822 on: September 09, 2008, 08:19:11 pm »
@Odin: Are you using the normal maps provided with that texture set to make use of q3map2's 'bump-mapping' feature?
If not, give it a try and see what the effect is!
It would probably be unnoticeable due to how low-res lightmaps are. To get anything noticeable you need to put _lightmapscale 0.1 on everything.
And given Quake3's crappy 4MB(?) limit for lightmaps, that's impossible. Too bad :<

@all coders: I think you can safely quadruple the maximum size of the lightmap without breaking backwards compatibility. Maps using the bigger lightmap naturally would not run on a 'unmodified' ioQuake3. *WINK* *WINK*

Would quadrupling the limit be easy or would it mean to completely remake the handling of lightmaps?
From what I know with jdolan increasing Quake2World's maximum lightmap size to 16mb, it's a simple thing to do. It does create some huge fucking BSP files tho, obviously.
You could make trem load external lightmaps(XreaL does this) if they are available(and make q3map2 not save them in the BSP). That way, old maps would still work.

Lava Croft

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #823 on: September 09, 2008, 08:51:27 pm »
@Odin: Are you using the normal maps provided with that texture set to make use of q3map2's 'bump-mapping' feature?
If not, give it a try and see what the effect is!
It would probably be unnoticeable due to how low-res lightmaps are. To get anything noticeable you need to put _lightmapscale 0.1 on everything.
And given Quake3's crappy 4MB(?) limit for lightmaps, that's impossible. Too bad :<

@all coders: I think you can safely quadruple the maximum size of the lightmap without breaking backwards compatibility. Maps using the bigger lightmap naturally would not run on a 'unmodified' ioQuake3. *WINK* *WINK*

Would quadrupling the limit be easy or would it mean to completely remake the handling of lightmaps?
From what I know with jdolan increasing Quake2World's maximum lightmap size to 16mb, it's a simple thing to do. It does create some huge fucking BSP files tho, obviously.
You could make trem load external lightmaps(XreaL does this) if they are available(and make q3map2 not save them in the BSP). That way, old maps would still work.
The point is that old maps will continue to work, since they will not interfere with the increased maximum size of the lightmap, and certainly not exceed it. Loading external stuff just for higher resolution lightmaps is not worth it in my view, unless you load external files like Darkplaces' .rtlights files, which contain 'static' realtime lights, to greatly improve performance when using realtime lighting and shadowing.

Again, do realize that all my experience on this subject is based on Quake2(World), but I have a hunch that it does not differ that much from Quake3. Maybe someone with some knowledge on this subject could chip in, but really only unless they have actual knowledge about it, since guessing is what we are already doing.

Asvarox

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #824 on: September 09, 2008, 09:46:27 pm »
Reactor looks awesome, yes, but i luv to say what's bad in thingies for me ;)
"Background" textures look quite realistic, i like it. Same with those screenies, they look like from Star Wars :) But Reactor itself looks um.. like made from plastic.

I MINE FULL WEREWOLFES
NOT SUCH HIPPIE THINGS  >:(

Taiyo.uk

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #825 on: September 10, 2008, 03:32:14 am »
Q3BSP file description: http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/q3/

The lightmaps are stored in a "lump" within the BSP file, and each lump has an offset and length that is specified in the file header. This appears to confirm Lava's hunch that it is possible to increase the maximum size without breaking backwards compatibility in a similar way to Q2W.

gimhael

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #826 on: September 10, 2008, 06:40:25 am »
There is just the problem that there is only 1 lump holding all the lightmaps, and it stores neither the size nor the count of lightmaps. In fact the number of lightmaps is computed by dividing the size of the lump by 128*128*3 (the size of a 128x128 lightmap in bytes). So if you put a 256x256 lightmap in that lump it will be read as 4 128x128 lightmaps.


Odin

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #827 on: September 10, 2008, 09:44:41 am »
q3map2 outputs 128x128 lightmaps so there is no worry for that situation.

gimhael

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #828 on: September 10, 2008, 11:11:51 am »
So you mean that you can get more detailed lightmaps within the current 128x128 limit as q3map2 will automatically split them into multiple smaller lightmaps ?

That would be great then you'd just have to increase MAX_LIGHTMAPS (currently 256, so it allows 4 megapixels as Lava said).

your face

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #829 on: September 10, 2008, 06:08:22 pm »
moar conveyor belts ftw
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

Taiyo.uk

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #830 on: September 10, 2008, 06:38:29 pm »
<3

Do they "work"?

epsy

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #831 on: September 10, 2008, 07:54:47 pm »
as in..splat?
Warning: All opinions expressed in my posts are mine and mine alone. Any connection to any group I am affiliated with - be it the ArmagetronAd Developers or any other group, is purely coincidental unless otherwise expressly stated. Don't be a dolt when you read my posts, as they *may* require some brainpower and thinking (also purely coincidental). Any opinion in my posts not expressed by me are purely figments of your imagination and will be dealt with accordingly.
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your face

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #832 on: September 10, 2008, 11:07:34 pm »
<3

Do they "work"?

yes!  well, for some of them... not sure how I will have the one in the pic moving unless I somehow have a shader for it.  maybe I'll flatten it out and use multiple trains.  :)
spam spam spam, waste waste waste!

==Troy==

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #833 on: September 15, 2008, 07:14:04 pm »


Testbox for terrain and ambience creation :)

fingered banana

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #834 on: September 15, 2008, 07:34:35 pm »
Increasing lightmap resolution is a fast solution. But, a real solution is the combination of proper uv mapping of lightmaps and adaptive lightmap resolution. (It works for manual lightmap creation in blender, I don't think it is applicable to quake 3 lightmaps )

Syntac

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #835 on: September 15, 2008, 09:02:12 pm »
That discussion died a while ago.

epsy

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #836 on: September 15, 2008, 09:19:45 pm »
at least it's more useful than
That discussion died a while ago.
Warning: All opinions expressed in my posts are mine and mine alone. Any connection to any group I am affiliated with - be it the ArmagetronAd Developers or any other group, is purely coincidental unless otherwise expressly stated. Don't be a dolt when you read my posts, as they *may* require some brainpower and thinking (also purely coincidental). Any opinion in my posts not expressed by me are purely figments of your imagination and will be dealt with accordingly.
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Syntac

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #837 on: September 15, 2008, 10:38:48 pm »
I sense an attempt to troll me. Begone!

Plague Bringer

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #838 on: September 15, 2008, 10:40:04 pm »
I sense an attempt to troll me. Begone!
Iron fist!
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Syntac

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Re: Random Dev. Shots
« Reply #839 on: September 15, 2008, 10:42:08 pm »
Heh! Hehehehehehehe. Dude, I love you now. Even more so than the first time you said that.

<3