Author Topic: In-Game VoIP Discussion (Read 17365 times)

Odin · « **on:** March 03, 2007, 04:08:10 am »

Useful Article.

As a former Counter Strike, Wolfenstein, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Quake 3, etc, etc, etc player, I find the easiest way to communicate within the game is through built-in voice chat, in-game. Some may say that TeamSpeak is an alternative for games that don't have voice chat built-in, but I find it a bad excuse. What of the players in the game who don't know the TeamSpeak server, or don't have TeamSpeak? The same goes for me; I would like to talk to them, but not with typing. However, they don't have TeamSpeak, and rounding up everyone in the game(even the ones you don't know) into the TeamSpeak server is time consuming, and even then, you don't get everyone in. In CounterStrike, you can talk to everyone in the game with a headset. Issue commands, give information, etc, is as easy as pressing a button on the keyboard to enable the mic. You can even chat while fighting. In Tremulous, and any other game that doesn't have built-in voice chat, the only safe place you can chat is within your base. Otherwise, you're a sitting duck, hence the "typekill" problem, which can be completely eliminated with this addition.

Tremulous, being a game heavily reliant on teamwork, would benefit greatly with built-in voice chat. You could easily issue orders to your builders, and order teammates to guard the base while the reactor/om is being moved. You could alert your team that the enemy team has moved their base, or if the enemy reactor/om is down, or if the enemy is attacking the base. Think of the things you could do with voice chat in a game like Tremulous.

If someone is going to take my idea seriously, I suggest using Speex as the codec of choice, being free and open source, like Tremulous.

Please, this is a serious discussion about a possible addition to Tremulous that would revolutionize its gameplay. I expect mature and serious replies.

Caveman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2007, 04:32:28 am »

Putting the technicalities aside I see a huge problem.
This would only be feasable in areas that are large, like the US or Russia because of the language problems you WILL encounter.
What good is a TeamVOIP where you first have to agree on the language?
And even if you make it a server-rule to only speak one language, you will always have some that can't or wont speak it.
That in turn would require again some severe administration imho.

Then you have the problem of normalizing all voices, no matter where you do it (server or client) it just will not do as you always have some idiots that dont use headsets, have their voice activation too low| too high, blast you with their kind of music or in the worst case have their game-speaker blaring so loud that you can't hear your own game.

So I still recommend a separate VOIP when playing

Odin · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2007, 04:36:52 am »

Agreeing on a language? You have to do that with type chatting as well. Not to mention the occurrence of that rarely happens. I myself don't go on servers that don't speak my language, because not only does it usually have a ping exceeding 200, but I can't understand the language, of course. This is server-based. Usually servers have a specific language, and tuning someone out who doesn't speak your language is easy.

Rawr · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:01:38 am »

Well, the first thing that I have to say is, I know nothing of coding.
This is a good idea odin, but the way I see it. If you have ever heard of TSO (team speak overlay) It will bring up a small window, probally 2in wide by 1 in tall just so you can see who is talking. In CS, its more of the XBL(xbox live) sort of way in game. When you hit white button, your name will appear to other players and you can talk.
Having something incorporated into TJW's system would be amazing. Running the !mute command mutes in game as well as voice chat.
Theres my one cent.
:roll:

Odin · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:07:02 am »

This can exist alongside TeamSpeak. I used to use TeamSpeak to talk to clan members in scrims where alltalk was enabled. I'm not talking about a replacement to TeamSpeak, I'm talking about a feature that can allow everyone to voice chat, whether they have TeamSpeak or not.

Rawr · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:15:25 am »

Yes, I understand where you are coming from. Or at least from what I can tell... A automated "TS" which is incorporated into the trem server files. When you join human, it will automatically put you into the human channel for as long as you are in the game, until the game ends, or if you are a admin (CA or SA).

Odin · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:18:49 am »

No, that's nothing like what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about voice chat built-in to Tremulous, like Counter Strike, or Tribes 2, or Xbox Live.

Kaleo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:20:05 am »

What I am going to do on my future server, is have a TS server running along side the Trem server and have the channel in the MOTD section and a message that comes up every minute saying what the channel is.

Rawr · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:44:09 am »

Quote from: "Odin"

I'm talking about voice chat built-in to Tremulous, like Counter Strike, or Tribes 2, or Xbox Live.

I was trying to say that :oops:

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2007, 09:25:32 am »

Language policy is a per-server issue, just as for text chat. !mute

Auto-activation would be problematic so use a PTT (press to talk) button. Think walkie-talkie.

I like the idea so long as there is a !mute_voice as voice chat spamming is far more irritating that text chat spamming.

Henners · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2007, 10:04:21 am »

To be honest I dont really want to listen to half of the morons that play this game screaming abuse down the microphones.

Voice chat in games only works on heavily adminned servers or in clanmatches with a group of trusted friends. With a bunch of randoms it gets abused 9 times out of 10.

So I say for your clan matches setup something like teamspeak, and leave voice chat and the extra lag it can cause out of the game

Odin · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2007, 04:43:59 pm »

Quote from: "Henners"

To be honest I dont really want to listen to half of the morons that play this game screaming abuse down the microphones.

Voice chat in games only works on heavily adminned servers or in clanmatches with a group of trusted friends. With a bunch of randoms it gets abused 9 times out of 10.

So I say for your clan matches setup something like teamspeak, and leave voice chat and the extra lag it can cause out of the game

As we said, !mute does the trick.

Rawr · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:07:55 pm »

My Idea :evil:

Henners · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2007, 09:03:28 am »

But why go to all the effort of including a built in system when its not really needed?

holyknight · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2007, 09:25:02 am »

I hate teamspeak.

And I won't be able to use it anyways, I have no mike

thank god for command voices. I always go "go go go" and "stick together team" in CS all the time XD

Odin · « **Reply #15 on:** March 04, 2007, 10:42:07 am »

Quote from: "Henners"

But why go to all the effort of including a built in system when its not really needed?

Did you seriously not consider the benefits? Did you even READ the first post?

Seffylight · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2007, 10:52:35 am »

Henners · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2007, 03:14:49 pm »

The benefits are only really valid in a more serious game (i.e. clanmatch situation)- in which case there are plenty of actual "voip" solutions.

For casual play its not needed, and indeed I dont think would be a very good idea. And would be a lot of effort to code in.

And do I really have to list the problems with voip in games? It rarely provides accurate communication such as would be needed for tremulous. Beyond "attack now" which takes most people less than a second to type - indeed many people can type faster than they can talk, I would hesitate to give any instructions or orders via voice communication. Typing is far better as it allows instructions to be reviewed, and clarity to be maintained both in the language employed and also in quality of communication (i.e. no breaking up or incomprehensible accents).

Now as I mentioned before I really dont want to hear half of the morons who play speaking. The mute however isnt a good solution, as whilst I dont want to listen to constant inane drivel, there may be the odd useful or important piece of communication. With text the drivel would be cut out and only important stuff would be typed.

The examples of use you list are all simplistic things that would be better served either with the use of text binds or a built in radio system ala CS.

Odin · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2007, 05:25:15 pm »

Quote

The benefits are only really valid in a more serious game (i.e. clanmatch situation)- in which case there are plenty of actual "voip" solutions.

It is very hard to round everyone up in a TeamSpeak server. You get this instantly.

Quote

For casual play its not needed, and indeed I dont think would be a very good idea. And would be a lot of effort to code in.

If it weren't hard to implement, there wouldn't be a thread like this. For casual play it's definitely needed.

Quote

And do I really have to list the problems with voip in games? It rarely provides accurate communication such as would be needed for tremulous. Beyond "attack now" which takes most people less than a second to type - indeed many people can type faster than they can talk, I would hesitate to give any instructions or orders via voice communication. Typing is far better as it allows instructions to be reviewed, and clarity to be maintained both in the language employed and also in quality of communication (i.e. no breaking up or incomprehensible accents).

I have yet to play with someone who can type while fighting.

Quote

Now as I mentioned before I really dont want to hear half of the morons who play speaking. The mute however isnt a good solution, as whilst I dont want to listen to constant inane drivel, there may be the odd useful or important piece of communication. With text the drivel would be cut out and only important stuff would be typed.

How can he say anything more than what he'd say in text? Why do you think such games as CS are so successful? Free voip in-game.

Rawr · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2007, 09:51:55 pm »

Quote from: "Seffylight"

F2

!passvote: Rawr decided that Seffylight voted Yes

Seffylight · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2007, 10:30:32 pm »

Negative.
Negative.
Negative.

Mad_Joe · « **Reply #21 on:** March 05, 2007, 01:20:32 am »

I'm surprised that there is even a debate on the question of whether Tremulous would benefit from in-game VoIP. Talking, even if it isn't faster, it is more natural and makes it easier to demonstrate meaning (with inflection, etc. that you can't do with typing). The complaints about morons annoying you doesn't hold much ground... they do that with text chat too. You also can mute them (a good extra feature would be personal ignore settings). Tremulous requires much more in-game coordination than many games. Base moves, for examples, require a great deal of coordination, and in smaller games you need to keep track of where the tyrants, etc., are. If given a choice, I'd choose a game with VoIP included rather than one without. I see no reason for not having it.

However, I do see some problems. First of all, how hard is this to program (is it feasible)? Secondly, how many people, in practice, would use this. Many people don't have a microphone or don't want to bother to use it.

Regardless, if it is feasible and not too difficult to program, I'm for it. Even if not many people use it, one person on a team using voice over typing is better than none.

Plague Bringer · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2007, 01:24:20 am »

Only problem, you wont be able to distinguish the different voices unless you're regularly on teamspeak with that person (a clanmember) or a r/l friend..it could get pretty confusing...i mean..i'd reather someone say HELP FOLLOW ME with their name infront of it so i could know who to help rather then hearing a random voice

Henners · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2007, 01:58:35 am »

Your answers show you have little real understanding of the topic and do little to address the points I have made so this arguement is rapidly becoming pointless.

One minor point though

Quote from: "Odin"

Why do you think such games as CS are so successful? Free voip in-game.

er what? utter bollocks. CS was popular long long long before ingame voice communication was added. I remember the massive fuss about it when it happened, and then it was barely ever used except by very good friends. Then a few months later all the clans I know switched back to more effective voice communication solutions. I've never seen it used effectively in a public server, but have had to mute people hundreds of time for spamming music or other offensive things.

Henners · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2007, 01:58:50 am »

Your answers show you have little real understanding of the topic and do little to address the points I have made so this arguement is rapidly becoming pointless.

One minor point though

Quote from: "Odin"

Why do you think such games as CS are so successful? Free voip in-game.

er what? utter bollocks. CS was popular long long long before ingame voice communication was added. I remember the massive fuss about it when it happened, and then it was barely ever used except by very good friends. Then a few months later all the clans I know switched back to more effective voice communication solutions. I've never seen it used effectively in a public server, but have had to mute people hundreds of time for spamming music or other offensive things.

Rawr · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2007, 02:51:40 am »

Double Post. BAN HIM!

holyknight · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2007, 03:05:50 am »

Quote from: "Henners"

er what? utter bollocks. CS was popular long long long before ingame voice communication was added. I remember the massive fuss about it when it happened, and then it was barely ever used except by very good friends. Then a few months later all the clans I know switched back to more effective voice communication solutions. I've never seen it used effectively in a public server, but have had to mute people hundreds of time for spamming music or other offensive things.

NO.
I play CS a lot, like, everyday. And most of the servers people use voice chat and in other people's opinions, they like it better than typing.
And also, I think it's easier with voice chat because all you have to do is press "K" and go "A."
Besides, I don't care about these "new" technologies about stupid voice chat and crap... typing FTW!

Odin · « **Reply #27 on:** March 05, 2007, 05:13:44 am »

CounterStrike's built-in voice chat protocol by default uses a very bad codec that is bad for bandwidth and voice quality. I do not know if Speex was originally included when voice chat was added, which would explain the fuss about it. A knowledgeable administrator can switch to the Speex codec for better voice quality/bandwidth usage.

Quote from: "Henners"

Your answers show you have little real understanding of the topic and do little to address the points I have made so this arguement is rapidly becoming pointless.

Care to elaborate?

Quote from: "Plague Bringer"

Only problem, you wont be able to distinguish the different voices unless you're regularly on teamspeak with that person (a clanmember) or a r/l friend.

When you enable the mic to voice chat with, it would show your name at the side of the screen, to show that you are talking, but only on other players' screens.

Quote

However, I do see some problems. First of all, how hard is this to program (is it feasible)? Secondly, how many people, in practice, would use this. Many people don't have a microphone or don't want to bother to use it.

The fact that it is in many games today shows that it is not very hard, if you are an experienced programmer. I don't know much of the C language(which Tremulous/Quake 3 is programmed in), but I know some of the ins and outs and I know it's definitely feasible, and would definitely be a great addition to Tremulous.

Those who don't want it can simply turn off the functionality.

holyknight · « **Reply #28 on:** March 05, 2007, 07:02:15 am »

Quote

When you enable the mic to voice chat with, it would show your name at the side of the screen, to show that you are talking, but only on other players' screens.

o yea, that made me realize. When people talk with teamspeak, you don't know who's talking and who isn't. So I had hard time figuring out if the person talking was him or that guy (names not included)

Henners · « **Reply #29 on:** March 05, 2007, 10:14:48 am »

Quote

. I do not know if Speex was originally included when voice chat was added, which would explain the fuss about it

Yeah now I'm just laughing my arse off at the stupidity of such an idea.

The fuss was exactly the same as the fuss you are making now. Not because of different better technology then. Exactly the same arguements which have been shown to be flawed over time....

News:

Author Topic: In-Game VoIP Discussion (Read 17365 times)

Caveman