Mod Idea - PowerUpGrades

[player1]

I've hijacked Plague Bringer's fine Juggernaut thread long enough. Here's a place to flame my idea without derailing his any longer. Without further ado:

PowerUpGrades
for games over one hour long
where it's been Sudden Death more than ten minutes
and the number of extendtime/reducetime votecalls is greater than two

You get abilities for destroying enemy structures. Aliens cannot utilize Human abilities and vice-versa, so deconning won't help you. The structures and abilities are as follows:

Turret - Strength (adds damage to alien melee attack)
Tesla - Speed (decreases melee attack reload or increases dretch movement speed)
Telenode - Endurance (either Invulnerability, Shield or Regen)

Acid Tube - Reload (partial reload of carried weapon)
Barricade - Tesla Cannon (replace carried weapon with Lightning Gun)
Egg - HealthBoost (partial instant medkit)

Alien abilities have limited timespan (thirty seconds to three minutes).
Human abilities are one-time (Reload, HealthBoost) or die with player (TeslaCannon). No pickups or icons required. The player who destroys the enemy structure gets the special ability or slight advantage. The purpose of this mod would be to get players out of their bases, to encourage them to destroy enemy structures, and to reward players for doing just that. Humans stop camping. Aliens get something cool for base-raping instead of kill-whoring. Everybody gets more action and neater toys. Thoughts?

Edited for spelling and clarity.

[Eli]

I like it, It's a good idea... Although sd is usually the ime when all the rushes happen because one rush can take out most of your enemys base...

[whitebear]

I don't like the idea of having them come from buildings. People would start thinking what will they build etc. Barricade is great structure but if humans get new weapons for destroying them i'll never build them.
Also having this on sudden death people just try to make game longer to get in this point and have fun wich is not good idea at all.
Some pickups from kills that randomly popup wich both side can use. Simple things like double damage and they would least until you die. Only one at the time and no icons for each so the effect is hidden. some of them might be cursed like poison that you die soon. (yes this is another cruel atempt to hijack this topic with heaven of relics mod)

[Risujin]

The Heaven of Relics discussion should move here too... basically this is the closest thing to player1's idea right now:
http://risujin.org/tremulous#relic

[Plague Bringer]

Pictures are broken for that mod.

[whitebear]

The Heaven of Relics discussion should move here too... basically this is the closest thing to player1's idea right now:
http://risujin.org/tremulous#relic

w00t! w00t!
First suggession of mine passed someones brain! ^^ *congratulatez himself*

[Risujin]

Pictures are broken for that mod.

Pictures are fixed and I even explained what the relics do.

w00t! w00t!
First suggession of mine passed someones brain! ^^ *congratulatez himself*

Don't celebrate early, the mod is pretty lousy.

[DoorKnob]

don't worry Risujin, I'll help test it with ya like i did with very single mod you've made for Tremulous Your my Hero.

[whitebear]

I belive I saw more difrent relics on one of the shots than you explained... in developement?
I actualy think this mod will rock the socks in no time.

Also are you going to implement the question mark mode where all relics have same symbol (question mark) so that you can't choose to look for any of them.
Evil relics to anoy greedy players ^^

[Risujin]

I belive I saw more difrent relics on one of the shots than you explained... in developement?
I actualy think this mod will rock the socks in no time.

Trying to work out how to make this mod work makes my brain melt.  :-?

[player1]

I don't like the idea of having them come from buildings. People would start thinking what will they build etc. Barricade is great structure but if humans get new weapons for destroying them i'll never build them.
Also having this on sudden death people just try to make game longer to get in this point and have fun wich is not good idea at all.
Some pickups from kills that randomly popup wich both side can use. Simple things like double damage and they would least until you die. Only one at the time and no icons for each so the effect is hidden. some of them might be cursed like poison that you die soon. (yes this is another cruel atempt to hijack this topic with heaven of relics mod)

Barricades have been called totally useless, as have teslas. If you haven't taken down your barricades and put up hives or trappers, you're wasting BP, by the time SD rolls around. I personally decon a few turrets and put up teslas, but many people can't stand teslas and consider them a total waste of BP. Besides, you wouldn't know if PowerUpGrades was going to happen or not, so why change your strategy for something that probably won't occur?

As far as having it on SD, people have the chance to have Rampage at the end of games, and not many people try to extend the game just for that. Most people play to win. Extending the game to have more fun can mean losing. Also, what's wrong with fun? This is a game, right?

As far as having a full-blown Heaven of Relics mod, it sounds cool, but it's hardly a restrained or controlled teamplay match. It just becomes a massive deathmatch clusterfuck, unless some kinds of useful special abilities come from performing tasks which benefit your team, and which you would normally need to do anyway to win the game. I mean, you're not going to stop building turrets, telenodes, acid tubes or eggs just because the enemy might get some special ability an hour from now, are you? Barricades and teslas will be as controversial as always. Both teams get fun and cool abilities for doing what they should be doing, and the game doesn't become a morass of voting and camping. Players kill-whore enough; if you reward them for it, you'll just make the game an extended team deathmatch, and not the mission-oriented assault it's meant to be.

Ris,

Sorry about the brain meltage. I think toning it down and limiting the special abilities to fewer than ten (not the 15 or 20 from HoR) or more like six or eight, will keep the balance issues easier to manage. I was thinking that to keep things somewhat random, Aliens who destroy telenodes would get one of three Endurance powerups: Invulnerability, Shield or Regen. Also, I agree with whitebear that an evil rune or two would be interesting. Maybe barricades and teslas could also randomly convey the "evil" relic: Infected for Humans (you are not only poisoned but contagious to teammates), and Irradiated for Aliens (you do radiation damage to nearby teammates and your own team's structures). This would make attackers wary about destroying certain structures just to get special abilities; they might get Infected or Irradiated instead. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. The "evil" rune would be an unforseen side-effect of the activity of the nanites or hormones which activate the special abilities in the first place, a system malfunction. (echo: You were Infected. Stay away from teammates! or You were Irradiated. Stay out of base!).

I hope these suggestion help. I'm definitely open to much discussion, and I think you can come up with something cool that won't be overwhelming or un-Tremlike. I have faith in you Ris. You can make this thing cool and not just a lolportmod. Think it's worth a try?

[whitebear]

Barricades have been called totally useless, as have teslas.

Learn to use them properly.

Brain melt down? Is it the actual game system or something that is troubling you?
Relic system idea:
Each player can carry 1 relic and can't get rid of it until they die.
When you have relic it shows new icon in your hud that is symbol of the effect.
On start of map game spawns relics half of the current players (rolled up on .5) and they are tossed around with random speeds

Code: [Select]


Players|Relics
1 | 1
2 | 1
3 | 2
4 | 2
5 | 3
6 | 3

Every time player joins, game atempts to keep proper relic count.
On death of player the relic taken by player jumps out and anyone can grab it. UNLESS if player count has dropped down enough to have less relics.
If relic is not taken for 20 seconds it re-spawns at spectator spawn and it gets new effect (re-randomized).

[Risujin]

Besides, you wouldn't know if PowerUpGrades was going to happen or not, so why change your strategy for something that probably won't occur?

I know you really want to limit this to SD but I think its a bad call. If you make a relics mod people want to see relics and they want to see them now! They're not gonna sit around for half an hour and wait. If they wanted to play normal Tremulous, they wouldn't be in a relic server.

As far as having a full-blown Heaven of Relics mod, it sounds cool, but it's hardly a restrained or controlled teamplay match. It just becomes a massive deathmatch clusterfuck, unless some kinds of useful special abilities come from performing tasks which benefit your team, and which you would normally need to do anyway to win the game.

This is whats making my brain melt. We can pop relics out from any entity (including corpses). We can directly give relics to people. But when should we do it?

Killing buildables isn't enough. The team that gets the relics will most likely be the other team!

I think toning it down and limiting the special abilities to fewer than ten (not the 15 or 20 from HoR) or more like six or eight, will keep the balance issues easier to manage.

There are currently 10 relics (http://risujin.org/tremulous#relic). The most fun one, Sticky Feet, has to be canned because Human BBoxes aren't square and you can't rotate them properly without massive h4x.

a lolportmod

It kind of is.

Each player can carry 1 relic and can't get rid of it until they die.
When you have relic it shows new icon in your hud that is symbol of the effect.

The hud is works this way now. Players can pick up new relics though.

Relics should be rewards for being useful somehow. The only ways to be useful in Tremulous:
-- (humans) repair buildings
-- build buildings
-- kill enemy players
-- kill enemy buildables
-- (TJW's) Basi-hug

Currently Relic rewards the killing part.

[whitebear]

If you want them as reward then why not get them when victim is spent MORE in their loadout than the killer?
most easy way to calculate is human credits (1 evo is about 222 creds. see max credits divided by max evos)
basi = 222
adv basi = 444
mara = 444
adv mara = 666
dragoon = 666
adv dragoon = 888
tyrant = 999
simple ^^
funny thing is that most expencive human loadout is 1200

EDIT:

Code: [Select]

Sticky Feet Relic:
Does it work for both sides?

Code: [Select]

Ammo Relic:
Does this benefit aliens at all?

Code: [Select]


Heal Relic:
Does this benefit aliens at all?
You also seem to add pros & cons for each relic with exeption of Resurrection and Invisibility

Relic ideas:
Telsa relic - Shocks nearby oppoment players and structures with chain lightning (mara zap) of 10 dmg/s for 3 targets (same damage to all in chain) but you also recvise 10 dmg/s penalty every time this happens.
Stealing relic - Every time you kill your enamy you steal their credits/evos (with proper conversion) up till you reach your maxium ammount. Bad news is that they get all you got when you die.
Kamikaze relic - When ever you kill oppoment their body explode (effects everyone. hostile & allies & structures). When you die your body explode (effects everyone. hostile & allies & structures).

[Plague Bringer]

Relics are picked up - correct?

This works in UT because UT is a "search the map for the ultimate weapon" game, correct?

Tremulous has no pickups currently, and should not have them in the future.

This is simpily my opinion, but in this case I believe I am completely right.

Try putting a Tremulous armoury into Halo, it'll break the game, theme, and gameplay, just like putting pickups will break Tremulous.

[whitebear]

Becouse of that kind of opinions tremulous never get anything interesting and new ways of playing it. q3 had pickups ^^

[Plague Bringer]

Trem isnt Q3 anymore.

[Risujin]

Sticky Feet Relic:
Does it work for both sides?

I had to can the sticky feet because technically it only works right for cube shaped aliens.

Ammo Relic:
Does this benefit aliens at all?

6 barb advanced goon.

Heal Relic:
Does this benefit aliens at all?

+5 hp/s on top of existing heal rate.

You also seem to add pros & cons for each relic with exeption of Resurrection and Invisibility

Resurrection brings you back with a wimpy 25 hp. If they wait around for you to come back they can double the credits/kill they got from you.

Invisibility doesn't have a drawback right now, but it does eject at the slightest hint of trouble.

Relic ideas:
Telsa relic - Shocks nearby oppoment players and structures with chain lightning (mara zap) of 10 dmg/s for 3 targets (same damage to all in chain) but you also recvise 10 dmg/s penalty every time this happens.

I added a Radiation relic which works similar to this. It doesn't hurt you (that kills you way too fast!) but it hurts your team's buildings if friendly fire is on.

Kamikaze relic - When ever you kill oppoment their body explode (effects everyone. hostile & allies & structures). When you die your body explode (effects everyone. hostile & allies & structures).

Haha, I might just add this.

Tremulous has no pickups currently, and should not have them in the future.

When I heard about a similar idea from player1, that's exactly what I told him. Apparently the mod is still fun.

Relic version 3: http://risujin.org/tremulous#relic

[player1]

Good Evening,

First of all, I'd like to thank you all for stopping by. I really appreciate the input, and so far I'd say we have a pretty well-rounded team (one guy who can actually make the thing, one guy who already got his mod made but still wants more, one guy who abhors pickups except for one really cool special unique application, and me - a typoholic).

I'll address recent concerns in reverse order, somewhat, beginning with Plague Bringer. This is offered in the spirit of discussion, so if you have the time, consider a couple of items.

I am not talking about pickups, in the sense that when something is destroyed, some kind of rune or relic appears. I am talking about the game knowing which player fired the last shot (or made the last slash) which finally did enough damage to a structure to destroy it, and cause the acid or slag animation. Just the way the game knows who fired the last shot (or made the last slash) to kill another player. That player (who dealt the final blow) gets the special bonus. There is no icon or relic or rune for anyone to steal. He who "kills" the structure gets a minor boost.

As an alternative to the votecall abuse, the admin can stop all the stuff that happens on pubservers at the end of really long matches by just having these parameters built in. "Here, kids, do something fun instead of ruining the game we just played for an hour." Not for every match. Just for when the server devolves into vote abuse (kickplayer, muteplayer, banplayer, slapplayer, denybuild, make admin, strip admin, etc. - all the usual decon/tk/cheat/hack/abuse accusations and incidents perpetrated by the bored and the frustrated). A couple of quick questions:

1) Setting aside the whole Heaven of Relics idea - so, no pickups, no searching the map for better weapons, no icons, floating balls of light or runes of any kind - do you just dislike the idea of Humans being able to get restocked with ammo or health (we'll take the Tesla Cannon as a separate issue) out of base, without having to build? Are you just aesthetically against something which you feel violates the basic gameplay of Tremulous?

2) Did you play Deus Ex, by chance, and if so, what did you think of the RPG elements which entered the game via players getting modifications (abilities, upgrades, powerups - what have you) for performing acts which were essential to the game?

3) Sorry to be so long-winded, it's just takes more words to sound less offensive via keyboard. Besides a Juggernaut mod (which is a very specialized sort of pickup mod, I hope you'll agree), what sorts of mods would you consider appropriate for Tremulous? And a followup, if the Tesla Cannon (which would simply replace your non-blaster weapon, not be a persistant artifact), were replaced with, say ArmorBoost, would you still be opposed to the idea purely on the grounds that this isn't OtherGameName, and in Tremulous people get their gear in base only?

4) Lastly, would you consider any other types of modifications to player abilities besides the type suggested in the Juggernaut mod? And as a followup, why do you prefer a complete randomizing of said modification, and not as a reward for players performing basic acts necessary to the completion of their mission?

I hope I haven't offended you at all, and that you'll enter into this purely in the interest of idle electronic chat, among people who share a common interest. I'd be just as happy to play a Juggernaut mod as a PowerUpGrades mod. I just like to play Tremulous. A little variety never hurt. When I played Unreal, I had over half of my spare drive space devoted to mods and screenshots. If you have the time, let me know what you think. Every adventure needs a naysayer. Cheers!

[player1]

Ris,

I think we were on this thread semi-simultaneously. I don't have time to respond fully to developments in your conversation with whitebear (what's up, 'bear?), but I think it's really cool that you're not only making the Relics thing, you're even interested in tweaking it to make it more Tremlike. A couple of quick quips for quotes and I'll provide a more considered response tomorrow.

I'm beginning to see how this could be a complete gameplay mod, but couldn't the admin keep it for special occasions, like Rampage, if he wanted to, just by setting certain parameters? Also, I was thinking of this as the endgame for some of the larger servers (16 - 52 players). I do agree, that if you can extend it to more useful activities (build, repair, hunt, heal, as well as destroy) it would be good for all match long. I originally envisioned it as 'Act Three, Scene Three', if you know what I mean.

Also, I think part of the issue might be the fact that both Humans and Aliens can use the Relics, as currently playable. What I was envisioning was a scenario where the Humans get a certain set of UpGrades (armor, ammo and health out of base, or a new weapon, or Deus Ex-like weapon modifications like SteadyAim, or Universal Scope, or Reload Time Reduction), while Aliens get a different set of PowerUps (body modification such as reduced slash reload time or additional armor value or movement speed increase or temporary invulnerabilty or sound dampening).

Some of these effects correspond to different extant Relics. Could you make them team-based (i.e. certain abilities are only available to either Humans or Aliens, not both), do away with the pickups/icons/relics/runes/artifacts entirely, and just award the special abilities (or re-equipping) to players for performing one of the (five?) beneficial acts? I believe so far we have: Build, Repair, Heal, Hunt (kill enemies), Destroy (enemy structures). Players who TK or 'shotgun' decon (their own team's structures) get the 'evil' runes? (echo: "You killed TEAMMATE namehere. Now die a slow and painful death!" or "You destroyed the Armoury. Enjoy your radiation poisoning!")

@whitebear, re: barricades/teslas - I don't mean me. I mean the 47 people who chime in to say that every time the subject is brought up. I'll provide a nice threadlink if I get the chance. By the way, your research and calculations are valued, and I mean no disrespect in responding to you directly, you seem like a cool person. Hey, your mod already got made. Help me with mine. Finnish Death Metal, FTW! If I get some time, we can play a Relics round sometime soon.

[whitebear]

Good Evening

Good day lad!

First of all, I'd like to thank you all for stopping by. I really appreciate the input, and so far I'd say we have a pretty well-rounded team (one guy who can actually make the thing, one guy who already got his mod made but still wants more, one guy who abhors pickups except for one really cool special unique application, and me - a typoholic).

I told ya that I would hijack your thread to keep from making new one.
The subject seemed so close to relics that I were just too tempted. ^^

I am not talking about pickups, in the sense that when something is destroyed, some kind of rune or relic appears. I am talking about the game knowing which player fired the last shot (or made the last slash) which finally did enough damage to a structure to destroy it, and cause the acid or slag animation. Just the way the game knows who fired the last shot (or made the last slash) to kill another player. That player (who dealt the final blow) gets the special bonus. There is no icon or relic or rune for anyone to steal. He who "kills" the structure gets a minor boost.

If it is relic that is dropped on ground after killed by multiple targets the players can decide who gets the relic. If I don't want a relic I would just taunt to the others as agreement that "I don't need, Anyone else?".

1) Setting aside the whole Heaven of Relics idea - so, no pickups, no searching the map for better weapons, no icons, floating balls of light or runes of any kind - do you just dislike the idea of Humans being able to get restocked with ammo or health (we'll take the Tesla Cannon as a separate issue) out of base, without having to build? Are you just aesthetically against something which you feel violates the basic gameplay of Tremulous?

I like the idea if it's not sucure that players get restocked. if you know that if i kill barricade i get super weapon then it gives no suprices and is bit more boring. ^^

2) Did you play Deus Ex, by chance, and if so, what did you think of the RPG elements which entered the game via players getting modifications (abilities, upgrades, powerups - what have you) for performing acts which were essential to the game?

I've never played Deus Ex.

3) Sorry to be so long-winded, it's just takes more words to sound less offensive via keyboard. Besides a Juggernaut mod (which is a very specialized sort of pickup mod, I hope you'll agree), what sorts of mods would you consider appropriate for Tremulous? And a followup, if the Tesla Cannon (which would simply replace your non-blaster weapon, not be a persistant artifact), were replaced with, say ArmorBoost, would you still be opposed to the idea purely on the grounds that this isn't OtherGameName, and in Tremulous people get their gear in base only?

I am not against this but I rather have suprices on battle field. Same upgrades from same structures is too sucure way to get them.

4) Lastly, would you consider any other types of modifications to player abilities besides the type suggested in the Juggernaut mod? And as a followup, why do you prefer a complete randomizing of said modification, and not as a reward for players performing basic acts necessary to the completion of their mission?

The Juggermaut or w/e is way too limited (only two players can get it). I personaly would like the mod if there were only one of the special players and both teams would try to be in control of this beast. so basicly revese tag in middle of trmulous game.

what's up, 'bear?

I am just about to reply to you. ^^

I was thinking of this as the endgame for some of the larger servers (16 - 52 players).

Larger servers probly won't take mods that often beacouse of major demand for stock trem with tjw admin.

Also, I think part of the issue might be the fact that both Humans and Aliens can use the Relics, as currently playable. What I was envisioning was a scenario where the Humans get a certain set of UpGrades (armor, ammo and health out of base, or a new weapon, or Deus Ex-like weapon modifications like SteadyAim, or Universal Scope, or Reload Time Reduction), while Aliens get a different set of PowerUps (body modification such as reduced slash reload time or additional armor value or movement speed increase or temporary invulnerabilty or sound dampening).

That goes more near to UT2K4:RPG mod.

Players who TK or 'shotgun' decon (their own team's structures) get the 'evil' runes?

Idea of runes in my oppinion is that you choose to take them they are not forced to you. You just have to avoid them if you don't want them. Evil runes should be mixed in normal runes and let them take a discuise of normal rune so bad luck might pop up. ^^

@whitebear, re: barricades/teslas - I don't mean me. I mean the 47 people who chime in to say that every time the subject is brought up. I'll provide a nice threadlink if I get the chance. By the way, your research and calculations are valued, and I mean no disrespect in responding to you directly, you seem like a cool person. Hey, your mod already got made. Help me with mine. Finnish Death Metal, FTW! If I get some time, we can play a Relics round sometime soon.

I know that most people think they are waste. Risujin does not seem interested about the powerups since it's not part of UT or it's mod. Also suggessing something like Trem:RPG (UT2K4:RPG mod conversion) would be cruel since I know perfectly well that coding rpg system is pain in the ass.

Here are some more relic ideas:
Gravity relic - you can now jump lot higher but problem is that while coming down you become easy target.
Evil relic: Minute - You did not eat apple, now did you? Doctor tells that you got one minute to live.
Evil relic: Guilt - Every time you kill you move slower and slower due weight of guilt.
Evil relic: No Jump - You can't jump for unknown reason.

[player1]

Risujin,

OK, I think I've got a handle on it. I made a little matrix today, based on your list of Tremulous actions worth rewarding. I've divided them into four major types: Destroy, Build, Hunt (kill enemies), and Fix (repair/heal teammates & team structures). Maybe we can even change the name of the mod to Rewards.

Reward System

Destroy
Divide structures into three or four major types by one of the two following systems:

1) by build point value: 8, 10, 12 or 0 (Reactor/Overmind)
2) by Stage at which structure becomes available (and 4th type, again, for Reac/OM)

Type: Human/Alien
I: A/X
II: B/Y
III: C/Z
0: D/other

Build
Not just building, but skilled building.
Reward builder for multiple kills by active, defensive structure (e.g.- turret, acid tube).
Also, reward builder for structure persistence by passive, non-defensive structure (e.g. - telenode, egg).

Type:Human/Alien
Kills by structure (#TBD):E/V
Persistence (time TBD):F/W

Hunt
For killing enemies only. Players ranked by stage. Can be done one of two ways. Either the actual stage of the entire team is the value used, OR, the player's current loadout/class (any item or class unlocked by a certain stage) determines that player's stage value (just for the purposes of determining the following Rewards):

Player's Stage Value: Opponents Stage Value (Reward)
1:1(G)
1:2(H)
1:3(I)
2:1(J)
2:2(G)
2:3(H)
3:1(K)
3:2(J)
3:3(G)

G - same stage
H - opponent one stage above
I - opponent two stages above
J - opponent one stage below
K - opponent two stages below

Fix (Repair/Heal)
Humans are rewarded for repairing team structures.
Aliens are rewarded for healing teammates.

Type: Human
Repair (total damage TBD): L

Type: Alien
Heal (total damage TBD): M

Deterrents
TeamKill: N
'Shotgun' Decon: O

For a complete list of rewards, see below. I have not associated this matrix with the list of rewards, so that the above could be a generic template, and the list of Rewards can be reworked as necessary. Also note that these are not specifically the Relics from HoR; I've played enough of these mods to know what I think goes where, and we can find which relics most closely approximate what we are looking for and tweak from there. That is, you can, Ris. All I can do is suggest.

Some notes: The Rewards are mostly enhancements of limited duration, but a few are one-time benefits (the first three in the following list). The maximum number of rewards that any player can be "carrying" is one. After it wears off you can get another. One-time benefits will take some short space of time to take effect, after which you can get another. Rewards in next post.

[player1]

Rewards

NBW=Non-Blaster Weapon (for Humans)

Human - Destroy
A - Reload (gives 1/2 max. ammo up to max. carry - NBW)
B - HealthBoost (gives 1/2 max. health up to health max.)
C - ArmorBoost (gives 1/2 current armor value up to max. armor)
D - Vengeance (explosive death: slag animation)
Note: If Alien slayer survives explosive death of Human Avenger, Alien gains Vengeance benefit, but the animation is acid splash damage, instead of hot slag explosion

Human - Build
E - Damage (increases damage done by player - Blaster only?)
F - Attack (increases fire rate - Blaster only?)

Human & Alien - Hunt
G - Stealth (dampens movement noise)
H - Cloak (makes avatar translucent)
I - Invisibility (makes avatar almost transparent)
J - Toxic (makes player poisonous to nearby teammates)
K - Hazard (player does radiation damage to own team's structures)

Human - Fix (Repair)
L - HealthPlus (max. health ceiling increased to 125)

Alien - Fix (Heal)
M - Reflect (damage returned to attacker)

Human & Alien - Slap
N - Poison (Aliens can't get poison from Booster, Humans get poisoned with Alien Booster poison)
O - Xenophobe (gives radiation sickness to player which also affects nearby enemies)

Alien - Build
V - Invulnerability (player takes no damage)
W - Shield (bestows armor value)

Alien - Destroy
X - Strength (increases damage done by melee attack)
Y - Speed (decreases melee attack 'reload' time or increases dretch movement speed or enables dretch double-dodge or dash)
Z - Endurance (reduces received damage)
Other - Regen (increases health regen rate)

They make sense, too.
Humans who destroy enemy structures get resupplied (or, their deaths avenged).
All of the following effects could be of limited duration.
Human builders whose structures kill multiple enemies or survive successive attacks get a more powerful sidearm.
Players who hunt get abilities which help them in the hunt, but slightly penalized for killing enemies beneath their stage.
Humans who repair a lot get a higher maximum health value.
Aliens who heal a lot get to reflect damage back upon their attackers.
Teamkillers get poisoned (Humans) or denied Booster poison (Aliens).
'Shotgun' deconners get radiation sickness, which affects the enemy team.
Aliens who build successful structures get more durable.
Aliens who destroy enemy structures get enhanced battle abilities.

Not only is it in the very spirit of Tremulous, I believe you'll find it somewhat balanced, reflects all five categories of Risujin's query, adds in whitebear's evil runes, and 'slaps' players who do 'bad' stuff. It took me a while, and I'd like to thank you all for the challenge.

Note also that you could make the Rewards harder to get, such as so many times in a single spawning, or so many times within a certain time limit.

You wouldn't necessarily get Stealth just for killing one same-stage enemy. You might have to kill three within a single spawning for a Human, and five within three minutes for an Alien, or something. The same could be said for all of these activities.

Maybe one TK wouldn't get you poisoned (or denied access to Booster poison), but three would be enough to kill a Human who did it, and deny an Alien who did it Booster poison for the next ten minutes.

Destroying one Type I structure might not be enough to get the Reload or Strength. A Human might have to destroy two in three minutes while an Alien might have to destroy two in one spawning.

Parameters will need adjustment and are accordingly left vague. As DoorKnob said, intensive play-balancing will be needed, as always. Cheers.

Other possible names: Pavlovia, Carrotstick, The Hunt, Seek and Destroy, PowerBuilder, etc.

[khalsa]

Despite Risujin's best efforts this mod is still very lame. I think it needs some major changes to become truly playable in trem, but no-- I'm not willing to take the time to tell you what (or even think about it).

Good luck on getting this playable ris, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

I'd say focus on other, better things at the moment.

You know I love you,


Khalsa

[KobraKaine]

Hardcore awesome ideas.

[Risujin]

Good luck on getting this playable ris, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Jerk! I actually like it now.
Come by and try a recent version. Radiation mara ftw!

I'd say focus on other, better things at the moment.

If I rationally chose what to work on, I wouldn't be focusing on Tremulous at all now would I?

player1 --

You clearly put in a lot of time thinking about this. As other people have pointed out, you have effectively described a Tremulous RPG. This is pretty close to how Enemy Territory works. Have you played it?

After some tweaking, the relics mod idea is actually quite distinct from what you are now describing. Relics weakly reward killing buildings and exploring, but it's more fun hunting around for that "good" relic that'd let you do the most damage with your current class/loadout. I'm able to actually get some games going on my home cable and the testing so far has been positive (with the exception of bugs...).

[player1]

Good luck on getting this playable ris, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Jerk! I actually like it now.
Come by and try a recent version. Radiation mara ftw!

I'd say focus on other, better things at the moment.

If I rationally chose what to work on, I wouldn't be focusing on Tremulous at all now would I?

player1 --

You clearly put in a lot of time thinking about this. As other people have pointed out, you have effectively described a Tremulous RPG. This is pretty close to how Enemy Territory works. Have you played it?

After some tweaking, the relics mod idea is actually quite distinct from what you are now describing. Relics weakly reward killing buildings and exploring, but it's more fun hunting around for that "good" relic that'd let you do the most damage with your current class/loadout. I'm able to actually get some games going on my home cable and the testing so far has been positive (with the exception of bugs...).

Ris,

Can't wait to try what you've got so far. Yeah, I put about four or six hours into thinking through the Rewards mod. I love doing that kind of stuff. Heck, I've got three other shooter games worked out on paper. Figuring out how to match your list of actions to appropriate rewards was totally fun. I can see that it would be a lot of work to make. I got caught up in the idea of RPG elements in a shooter game that already has RTS considerations. When you gave me that first clue as to how to proceed, I couldn't help but trying to work out the details. Even if you're not interested in making it (or messing with the Relics mod to make it approximate this), what do you think of the concept - aesthetically and thematically - now? I haven't tried Enemy Territories yet. I'm running OS X, and for some reason I thought ET was Windows/Linux. Thanks again for the inspiration. That was really interesting to try to work out. I hope it was layed out clearly. I sure do type a lot.

Khalsa,

Three things came together here: my silly idea(s), whitebear's request, and Risujin's port. To which are your referring?

DoorKnob/Plague Bringer/whitebear,

What do you think of the Rewards mod idea?

KobraKaine,

Thanks, if that was for me.

Thanks again to all who contributed criticism, suggestions, or commentary. Cheers.

[Plague Bringer]

I'm liking HEAVEN of RELICS (the reason for which I do not know), but I still don't know how your suggestion would go. Mainly because in HEAVEN of RELICS there are relics at the start of the game, not just during one period.

One of the main reasons I did not like Rewards mod is because you would need to pick up an upgrade...in the middle of the enemy base. And if you simpily got it, well, I think that would just be retarted, but, HEAVEN of RELIC is (kindof) fun, perhaps I'll end up liking Rewards also.

Hey Ris, how's Juggernaut comin' along.  :wink: J/k.

[player1]

I'm liking HEAVEN of RELICS (the reason for which I do not know), but I still don't know how your suggestion would go. Mainly because in HEAVEN of RELICS there are relics at the start of the game, not just during one period.

Actually, I wasn't very clear, but the Rewards mod would be for all stages of Tremulous (see the section on the Hunt). It would start at the beginning of the game.

One of the main reasons I did not like Rewards mod is because you would need to pick up an upgrade...in the middle of the enemy base. And if you simpily got it, well, I think that would just be retarted, but, HEAVEN of RELIC is (kindof) fun, perhaps I'll end up liking Rewards also.

Well, you wouldn't have to pick it up, you would get the enhancement after performing a certain action (or number of actions within a certain time span or number of spawns), which is (practically) the way Tremulous works now! You don't have to pick up creds or evos, they are awarded to you. I don't think that's "retarted". Or even retarded. Glad you're liking the HoR mod. Some things can be fun even if you think they are bogus. Thanks for commenting. Take care.

...the testing so far has been positive.

I checked out the link you provided. There are currently 14 Relics, and I suggest some 21 Rewards.

This port isn't very good yet. I'm still trying to work out how to best integrate this game mode with Tremulous gameplay.

http://v1.risujin.org/tremulous/

Personally, I think my ideas are pretty useful. Maybe we could make a simpler Rewards system (less involved Hunt table? or simplify Destroy or Fix awards?), with less enhancements. I feel that some of the Relics are cool for a UT-port lolmod, but how hard is it to tailor them, and do you actually like the Rewards mod as it is now described? (Starts at beginning of game, has rewards for all four/five categories of rewardable actions, has evil/slapplayer anti-Rewards, has closely tailored Rewards for various classes/loadouts/playertypes). The Builder and the Healer and the Destroyer and the Hunter and the Repair Defender all become valued occupations, not just the way other people play. As you say, it is pretty RPG-ish, and pretty TeamFortress-esque, also.

Note also, that the 'evil' runes have cool applications, too. Say you need to 'shotgun' decon something, for quick BP, and doing so gives you the Xenophobe reward. You would also be damaging the enemy team (since they are susceptible to your radiation poisoning).

Let me know if you think any of these ideas are useful. Have a good one. Rewards, FTW!

Edit: Several things I just thought of. A player might get a small submenu at respawn, after choosing loadout/class, where the player could choose from among the several Rewards which he now qualifies for. A Human who chose, say the Adv Ckit, would get the chance to choose between Damage, Attack, and HealthPlus (depending on how his structures had been faring, and if he'd been repairing, he could either get a better Blaster, or a higher health max).

You could also limits effects to inside and outside of the 'build-line', to really separate the warriors (Hunt/Destroy) from the wizards (Build/Repair/Heal). Players would get special enhancements for playing Offense or Defense. One Reward at a time either means you have to get force-fed whatever you newly qualify for (like the default Q3a weapon pickup), OR, when any Reward you have expires, you become eligible to start earning a new Reward. TremFortress: PlanetQuest!  :roll:  :wink:  

[Risujin]

player1, Rewards mod (would probably make more sense to call it Trem RPG actually) should not be confused with Relic mod. The two are growing in different directions and that's a good thing.

I said it before but I still highly suggest you play RTCW: Enemy Territory, it is very very close to what you are thinking of. Play it and you may get a good idea of how this works. If you can't get a working copy no matter what (it's free!) at least read the manual. I'm also afraid that the two ideas are too similar. Do we need Trem: ET? How would they work differently?