The Potato Patch running Defense Computer Base Regen Patch

[Neckhole]

Everyone,

Earlier today, CU|CUDyin's Defense Computer Regeneration patch was installed on The Potato Patch.  The idea was originally proposed by PHREAK in this thread on the Tremulous Forums.

At the moment, we've got it set to repair human all human buildings except the Defense Computer and any Repeaters at a rate of 4 hitpoints every 2 seconds.

For the next few weeks, we'll be helping CU|CUDyin add functionality and trying to find the right rate of health regeneration on The Potato Patch.  If you are curious and want to help test, please feel free to join the server.  While you're there, don't forget to check out some of the nifty features of Wonko's PotatoBot.

Please check this thread  on the Potato Patch discussion forums.  We will provide a link to any kind of release information provided by the author.

Find us in the Tremulous Server Browser as The Potato Patch.

[Vector_Matt]

Yay, a good reason to build a defcomp. (teslas don't count as good reasons.)

[n00b pl0x]

not really. 4 hp per 2 sec is pretty...not useful.

[Neckhole]

not really. 4 hp per 2 sec is pretty...not useful.

We can adjust the rate if it isn't sufficient.

At the very least, a Defense Computer has more utility on our server than it did before.

Several human teams have made very good use of it. We've had some pretty excellent games tonight.

A turret has 190 HP, with "our" DC, it'd be repaired from 1 to 190 in a matter 95 seconds automatically.  This stacks in addition to the Construction Kit which I believe heals at 18 per second.

Combine that with the fact that the typical human base can contain around 10 structures,  the DC has a potential to crank out over 200+ hit points a second.  I'd say that's pretty significant.

[Exclamation]

This sound like a really good idea.
Cant wait to try it out

[n00b pl0x]

hopefully an opposing alien doesnt come in and tap every single buildable without killing anything. unless there is such an alien out there, i still dont find this function very useful in its current state.

[Neckhole]

hopefully an opposing alien doesnt come in and tap every single buildable without killing anything. unless there is such an alien out there, i still dont find this function very useful in its current state.

Yes,  your opinion from was quite clear in your earlier post.  Unfortunately, an unsubstantiated opinion has little use to us. If you have a better suggestion as to how it could be implemented without ruining the balance of the game, fire away we'd love to hear it.

In our experience (actually putting in the modification and playing a few map rotations), it's proven to be useful to enough builders that they stop and build it instead of automatically bypassing the DC at Stage 2 as it currently happens.

Granted, this is only after a night's worth of gameplay.  One cannot reach any kind of intelligent conclusion about the usefulness in one night.  It could be that everyone is building a DC right now just for the sake of novelty.

We've already made several observations and will probably make adjustments to the equation that determines the amount of hitpoints restored over an interval of time. Our intention from the very start was to put it in place and tinker with the rate based on what we saw in gameplay.

[Patriotpie]

Yay, a good reason to build a defcomp. (teslas don't count as good reasons.)

Not true! DC's look really cool...  

I think that automatic regeneration of structures was meant to be exclusively for aliens, as to keep the balance in check. With recent changes in Trem to the humans' advantage, I think this modification would tilt the game just a little too much in our biological bretheren's favor.

Being mainly a human player, I know I would enjoy it... but it would annoy me to know end if I got half the turrets smoking, recharged at base for a minute, and came back and all the turrets were 100% healed.

Who knows though, only time will tell.

[f0rqu3]

you stole tremx!!11111oneone

[Mad_Joe]

I like the idea, and I think it has some usefulness. Sure, it won't save your base if tyrants attack one a focused point, but it provides "maintenance" repairs, saving builders the time it takes to repair a turrets that dretches just run up against and damage, or damage done in an alien attack to buildings not directly attacked, but hurt (by explosions, etc.).

However, Patriotpie makes a good points... with the current (unfinished) 1.2 changes aliens are a little underbalanced (if that's a term), and this wouldn't help them.

[benmachine]

with the current (unfinished) 1.2 changes aliens are a little underbalanced

http://trem.tjw.org/
Team Wins for 200704
Aliens 125
Humans 125
Draws 19
Other 8

lol.

[Rabbitt]

Make a buildable regen for aliens and Problem Solved !

[Raytray]

Make a buildable regen for aliens and Problem Solved !

I hope you're not serious.

[Neckhole]

Well, as far as Tremulous 1.2 balance goes I can't really say.  Until 1.2 is released, it's probably a bit premature to start considering how this change would impact 1.2 and something we'd be happy to answer assuming that we decide to run 1.2 on The Potato Patch.

The object isn't to eliminate the need for the humans to rebuild and maintain there own base.

Our intent is alleviate some of the pressures of the human team to feel like they have no option other than to permanently leave members of the team to tend to base.  Our dream is that this would reduce human camping, especially in smaller games of 2-3 players per team.

Hopefully tonight we'll get some more good games going so we can test out the adjustments we've tried to make to the regeneration rate.  We'd like it if the regeneration rate climbed slowly as the building reaches a healthier state.  This should effectively keep the buildings "topped off" better, but still require a builder's intervention when the building is badly damaged.

[Plague Bringer]

@whoever said DC's were useless -

You do know they affeced turrets too, right?

If not, you have just won the title of nO0bz0rz.

Good Job!

[Neckhole]

@whoever said DC's were useless -

You do know they affeced turrets too, right?

If not, you have just won the title of nO0bz0rz.

Good Job!

There's a reason that good builders never build the DC on good servers.  Learn the difference between someone saying that something is useless and the same person saying it doesn't do anything.

It's a pretty common (and supported) opinion, that for the build points it costs, the Defense Computer does not add as much benefit in terms of base defense as simply laying down another turret does.

Instead of calling people names, it's probably wisest to understand what people are saying first.

[KamikOzzy]

In my opinion, the real reason the base is always camped isn't the damage received, but the inabilty to defend the reactor from being jumped on by a mara. Even placing turrets all around the reactor, and at different distances, I haven't found an arrangement that doesn't leave a "sweet spot" for the mara to sit nearly undamaged, without putting the reactor under a low ceiling.

[_Equilibrium_]

with the current (unfinished) 1.2 changes aliens are a little underbalanced

http://trem.tjw.org/
Team Wins for 200704
Aliens 125
Humans 125
Draws 19
Other 8

lol.

wtf is "other"?

[f0rqu3]

with the current (unfinished) 1.2 changes aliens are a little underbalanced

http://trem.tjw.org/
Team Wins for 200704
Aliens 125
Humans 125
Draws 19
Other 8

lol.

wtf is "other"?

game didnt end; map changed

[Raytray]

Seems great, what's the alien structure regen rate?

[janev]

I wonder if a medkit style regen would work i.e that it starts with low regen 1-4 hp/s then accelerates to 10 + hp/s after a given amount of time. That way it would actually maintain the base without taking away from the aliens ability to attack the structures. The numbers i  gave are of course up for debate.

[Mad_Joe]

with the current (unfinished) 1.2 changes aliens are a little underbalanced

http://trem.tjw.org/
Team Wins for 200704
Aliens 125
Humans 125
Draws 19
Other 8

lol.

Ack. Good catch. I was just assuming the popular opinion followed the statistics, which isn't a good practice. Still, my point kind of still exists... if the teams are perfectly balanced, the humans don't need an improvement hehe.

[Neckhole]

I wonder if a medkit style regen would work i.e that it starts with low regen 1-4 hp/s then accelerates to 10 + hp/s after a given amount of time. That way it would actually maintain the base without taking away from the aliens ability to attack the structures. The numbers i  gave are of course up for debate.

Basically I think our equation at the moment is something along these lines:

I can't quote it exactly from memory since this is all at home, and I am loafing at work, but to put it roughly, the rate starts around 2 and then slowly increases depending on the current hitpoints of the building.

If a building has a ton of hitpoints (like the reactor) and takes only 10% of its' total damage it will repair at a much quicker rate than if it had taken 90% of its total damage.

If the exact equation is that interesting, I can post it later. But just as an FYI, I think a turret's regen rate maxes out somewhere around 4HP per second and a reactor's regen rate maxes out somewhere around 10HP per second.

[Neckhole]

One final bump.

After a few days in, it seems the DC is a viable option for humans to build at S2 on the server.

It also adds a little variety to the base building, some people prefer to build bases the same way.

We're always on the lookout for constructive feedback.  Feel free to pop in, play a few maps and offer  your expertise!

[Pacra]

Neckhole, this is a great option.  You can bet I'll be on Potato Patch trying it out soon.

As 'pro' players always use all-turret bases, perhaps you could add added incentive to building a defcomp by altering the teslas in some way.  Make them have more hp/zapping strength/zapping radius, or something.  Teslas in their current form are useless.

[Plague Bringer]

They're a great distraction for rants, pwn in my ATCS base layout, and are a great dretch-be-gone, but I have to agree, they are quite useless.

In tjw's Trem 1.2 they own though.

[floodbud]

http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4479

NO MORE MODULATION!!!

So now human buildings regen too huh?

+Follow the link.

_________________
Floodbud

[Paradox]

NO MORE NOOBS BITCHING ABOUT GOOD IDEAS!!!!

[Xonya]

I think that this could be a good idea, but... There is always a But;

Humans has somewhat advantage on attacking already, aliens are close range attackers except goon+ (mara+). I think balance is already thought through; against big aliens human armories suxx. But with base, I think humans has advantage to take alien base down if they just know how to do that  :eek:

Well, this will just increase Aliens eliteness more if they want actually to win :roll:

Personally, I have no problem to raid human base anyway      

But before anyone comments my confidence, I might have to experience this Potato Patch widely if it really is hard stuff or just potato mash.

[Ryanw4390]

In my opinion, the real reason the base is always camped isn't the damage received, but the inabilty to defend the reactor from being jumped on by a mara. Even placing turrets all around the reactor, and at different distances, I haven't found an arrangement that doesn't leave a "sweet spot" for the mara to sit nearly undamaged, without putting the reactor under a low ceiling.

Hi

I like this idea, but I don't think it will really put much effect into the game at 4hp every 2 seconds or whatever its at now.