1.2: "Classic" Settings

[Odin]

There are a lot of people who do not like the Norfenstein/tjw gameplay modifications(myself included) that will be put in to 1.2. Some of us don't like the drastic changes with the weapons/alien attacks.

With that said, please add a "Classic" mode that keeps the gameplay settings of 1.1.0(but also has the bugfixes/additions/etc of 1.2) that is per-server and can be filtered on the master list. That way people who still want to play 1.1.0 won't feel left out and have to resort to playing the old 1.1.0 version, which will essentially divide the community.

[f0rqu3]

here we came to a division ... I will follow timbo

[Caveman]

I agree with Odin, not all the changes that are going to be in 1.2 are beneficial to the game and I'd also like to have the ability to get a more "classical" play.

[whitebear]

What ever is officaly 1.2 is worth of playing. We still don't know what is in 1.2 and the Norfenstein/tjw is not (far as i know) even near what it is sopoused to be in 1.2

[Caveman]

We still don't know what is in 1.2 and the Norfenstein/tjw is not (far as i know) even near what it is sopoused to be in 1.2

And that is the reason why. It's not w/o humor when "nOrfed" is being used when meaning "nerfed"

[Lakitu7]

Sometimes I need more than two eyes so that I can roll them all to express all of the eye rolling that needs to be done.

While it's doubtful that the devs themselves will do this, it will be utterly trivial for any of the 10-ish people that create mods/patches to do it.

Then the people that want to play 1.1 but like to pretend that it'll be less divisive than playing non-forward-ported 1.1 can do so.

As has been pointed out, the changes as they stand are partial and unfinished. Making any decisions prematurely is foolish.

[whitebear]

Sometimes I need more than two eyes so that I can roll them all to express all of the eye rolling that needs to be done.

While it's doubtful that the devs themselves will do this, it will be utterly trivial for any of the 10-ish people that create mods/patches to do it.

Then the people that want to play 1.1 but like to pretend that it'll be less divisive than playing non-forward-ported 1.1 can do so.

As has been pointed out, the changes as they stand are partial and unfinished. Making any decisions prematurely is foolish.

+1

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

There are a lot of people who do not like the Norfenstein/tjw gameplay modifications(myself included) that will be put in to 1.2. Some of us don't like the drastic changes with the weapons/alien attacks.

With that said, please add a "Classic" mode that keeps the gameplay settings of 1.1.0(but also has the bugfixes/additions/etc of 1.2) that is per-server and can be filtered on the master list. That way people who still want to play 1.1.0 won't feel left out and have to resort to playing the old 1.1.0 version, which will essentially divide the community.

+1.

Play it like a 1970s arcade game. Or Mario in blocks.

OLD SKOOL!!!!!

[Risujin]

The 1.2 "bugfixes" necessitate the 1.2 gameplay changes to some extent. For example, tall suits can't saw eggs with 1.1 ranges. If you want 1.1.0, play 1.1.0. The rest of us can move on to 1.2.

[f0rqu3]

I wonder if you can saw a dretch with the lower hitbox of it

[Undeference]

Most of the stuff, as has been repeated thousands of times, I'm sure, is not 100% definite. 1.2 has not been released yet and most of the code running on tjw's server has not been committed to svn. If there are valid reasons, there will be changes... you just have to come up with them.

If you really want to keep playing 1.1, keep your backported binaries and qvms around. You'll still be able to play 1.1 after 1.2 is released, and even have your servers listed on the master server (1.1 clients won't see 1.2 servers and 1.2 clients won't see 1.1 servers).
I will continue to maintain a reasonably updated game.qvm for 1.1 until 1.2 comes out, as some other people will (though, some of those 1.1 compatible qvms are not so much 1.1 as random stuff that happens to be compatible). And the code is available under the GPL, so you can continue to add bug fixes or fork off and do your own thing.

But don't expect extra bloat for a "classic" setting.

[Odin]

A Classic setting would only consist of a single variable: g_gamesettings(or some other name). When set to 1, it sets game settings for weapons/etc to 1.2 settings. When set to 2, it sets it to the game settings of 1.1.

In fact this can technically be implemented with the scripting system for custom admin commands(though it would not reflect on the master server).

There is virtually no bloat; a simple addition to the menu UI(for filtering servers based on classic and 1.2 settings modes), and a variable the controls the variables for gameplay.

With this, people who enjoy the gameplay of 1.1 can also enjoy the additions of 1.2(such as graphical changes, like the proposed HUD improvements), without the (seemingly) different way of playing.

If the only solution is to continue using the old client, it will split the community, plus it's a lot more convenient.

[n00b pl0x]

if youre willing to just throw out all the hard work the devs have gone through on trying to balance out the classes while still trying to make the game more fun, i dont believe you deserve the other improvements, such as the of the hud and graficals.

play 1.1 or play 1.2

[benmachine]

There is virtually no bloat; a simple addition to the menu UI(for filtering servers based on classic and 1.2 settings modes), and a variable the controls the variables for gameplay.

Hello, variable check on every single new gameplay feature!
Hello, vast quantity of old features made redundant that now must re-added and toggled with a server cvar!

Readability? Sanity? Pfft, overrated.

[Lakitu7]

There is virtually no bloat; a simple addition to the menu UI(for filtering servers based on classic and 1.2 settings modes), and a variable the controls the variables for gameplay.

Hello, variable check on every single new gameplay feature!
Hello, vast quantity of old features made redundant that now must re-added and toggled with a server cvar!

Readability? Sanity? Pfft, overrated.

Yeah, I'm sorry Odin, but you'd understand that what you're saying isn't really true if you knew more code.

[Plague Bringer]

if youre willing to just throw out all the hard work the devs have gone through on trying to unbalance out the classes while still trying to make the game less fun, i dont believe you deserve the other improvements, such as the of the hud and graficals.

play 1.1 or play 1.2

Fixed.

[benmachine]

Not fixed.

fixed.

[sleekslacker]

People welcome bug fixes and better UI, but wrong decision on the balance tweak scares a lot of people. To be honest I prefer the 1.1 flavour.

afaik only the balance change is what is deterring many people from it. Turrets startup too slow, aliens being n0rfed a lot.. etc. However I think it is safe to say that changing the balance only consists of changing a few constants in the code. Damage dealt, regen rate, chomp range, they are all just numbers. Make a 'classic' mod using 1.2 code (equal to Balance and TremX) and we should be fine. No extra UI needed, no bloat for people who don't want 1.1. set cl_allowdownload 1 and you can play on 'classic' servers.

[Hydra]

dam it Odin, your so smart! ive always complained about the changes, but having that as an option in 1.2, i love it  

Nice idea  :wink:

[Undeference]

A Classic setting would only consist of a single variable: g_gamesettings(or some other name). When set to 1, it sets game settings for weapons/etc to 1.2 settings. When set to 2, it sets it to the game settings of 1.1.

That means two sets of game play options all wrapped up like

Code: [Select]

if( g_gamesettings.integer == 1 )
{
  // old code here
}
else if( g_gamesettings.integer == 2 )
{
  // new code here
}This would be repeated hundreds of times, would be utterly stupid, and would result in bloated code (with perhaps 1/3 to 2/3 of the code being toggled "on" or "off"). Furthermore, the code would be unmaintainable. If a function that is used by both sets of code changes, the old code may need to be changed in multiple places or the function will have to be copied and put in a big ugly condition.

If you don't want to keep your old binaries, just make a 1.1 mod. That you could implement (rather stupidly) with g_admin:
exec = set fs_game tremulous-1.1; advanceMapRotation

and just put a compatible game.qvm in your server's ~/.tremulous/tremulous-1.1
I'll let you work out how to share data yourself.

[Odin]

Not if the game settings were moved out of the game's internal code and into a configuration file. Then you could simply +exec "classic.cfg".

[kevlarman]

Not if the game settings were moved out of the game's internal code and into a configuration file. Then you could simply +exec "classic.cfg".

not when half of those settings have completely different implementations in the code to go with them.

[Lakitu7]

What undeference and Kevlar said. The code changes well beyond the balance numbers. If you were to look at the .patchfiles for tjw/norf's changes you would see that.

You'll get it as a "mod." It will take any one of those of us that know how to make one maybe 10 minutes to create. Your way has way too many disadvantages to happen and offers little benefit over the "mod" method.